(03-26-2015, 11:16 AM)Jade Wrote:

(03-25-2015, 11:37 AM)Monica Wrote: Someone just sent this to me privately:

Quote:Sadly, I don't think you received a single reply from anyone on that thread that really talked about the topic -- the consciousness of 2D entities as described by Ra.

Please forgive my rant - I'm at my limit and wish I could filter all posts/threads that contain the word "vegan" from here on out.

Monica, I don't think it's fair to blame others for the direction of your thread when A) ~70% of the text in the thread is yours and B) it's completely obvious from the OP that you are attempting to get people to follow a script so that you can prove your point. You've been a vegan for a long time so for you it's just "so easy", but as someone who's not yet been a vegan for three years, I can verify that it is difficult to transition even if you have the resources (I was taught to cook when I was young). In fact, dairy still makes it into my diet on occasion. It tastes disgusting for me but when I'm taken out to eat I prefer not to be a pain in the ass and instead just accept what is given.

You treat this issue as far too black and white. I can think of an infinite amount of scenarios where eating meat is not STS at all. Infinite. So to blanket create a scenario where you want people to admit that they are behaving in an STS fashion when they eat meat is not appropriate.

Once you mentioned that you support a group that pays people to watch videos of animal torture in an effort to get them to rethink their ways. To me, you are having people to willingly traumatize themselves so that they agree with you. I find this repulsive to say the least. It's akin to showing child pornography to people in an attempt to convince them not molest kids - it's exploiting to the victims, for one. Another analogy I feel is very accurate is that of the pro-lifer - coming from what they feel is an OBVIOUS moral high ground (not killing babies!) but being so forceful and repulsive in their attempts to persuade people (emotional manipulation, pictures of aborted fetuses, etc) that to most people their views are so harsh and radical that it becomes difficult to empathize. The gap between the common ground gets too wide to cover.

Quote:83.12 Questioner: Then you say that there are no cases where those who are service-to-others oriented are using in any way techniques of enslavement that have grown as a result of the evolution of our social structures? Is this what you mean?

Ra: I am Ra. It was our understanding that your query concerned conditions before the veiling. There was no unconscious slavery, as you call this condition, at that period. At the present space/time the condition of well-meant and unintentional slavery are so numerous that it beggars our ability to enumerate them.

Now, I am not accusing you of advocating slavery (it's obvious that you truly consciously advocate the opposite) but if we extrapolate "slavery" to mean "attempting to force others to take a specific course of action based on our desires", I hope you can see what I mean. We all have "sts demons" that we do well if we acknowledge. The fact being that you only have to hit 51% to be harvestable, and anything after that is "extra credit" leaves a bit of gray area for us all to have our future lessons.

Anyway, again, I'm sorry for being harsh Monica. I am very burnt out on these vegan threads that seem to just be a passive-aggressive bully fest. I understand you and Diana feel this is a great place for you to express your passion about being vegan, but I definitely think it's totally the WRONG place to brow-beat people about being STS.

Ra advocates an atmosphere of acceptance and non-judgement, while students of Ra continue to defend their habit of judging other students of Ra from a perceived moral high ground.

No one's perfect.

(03-26-2015, 11:35 AM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: Do you still eat french fries Monica?

(03-26-2015, 11:32 AM)Monica Wrote: Now, if you or anyone else has any beef about our views, please take it up in the Cognitive Distortions thread, which is the appropriate venue for that. THIS thread is about Ra's comments on 2D consciousness.

(03-26-2015, 11:16 AM)Jade Wrote: Once you mentioned that you support a group that pays people to watch videos of animal torture in an effort to get them to rethink their ways. To me, you are having people to willingly traumatize themselves

(03-26-2015, 11:43 AM)isis Wrote:

(03-26-2015, 11:32 AM)Monica Wrote: Now, if you or anyone else has any beef about our views, please take it up in the Cognitive Distortions thread, which is the appropriate venue for that. THIS thread is about Ra's comments on 2D consciousness.

That thread got closed.

(03-26-2015, 11:51 AM)Monica Wrote:

(03-26-2015, 11:43 AM)isis Wrote:

(03-26-2015, 11:32 AM)Monica Wrote: Now, if you or anyone else has any beef about our views, please take it up in the Cognitive Distortions thread, which is the appropriate venue for that. THIS thread is about Ra's comments on 2D consciousness.

That thread got closed.

What? Why? That was the place for working out personal issues. Is there a replacement?

(03-26-2015, 11:32 AM)Monica Wrote: It's impossible for anyone to feel judged by anything I or anyone else could say. I proved this with my Eating Tomatoes is STS thread. Judgment comes from within.

(03-26-2015, 12:14 PM)Minyatur Wrote: Very true, you should not feel bad for raising awareness.

(03-26-2015, 12:14 PM)Minyatur Wrote: Having attachement toward the results of your intent might be counter-productive to you tough. 

(03-26-2015, 12:14 PM)Minyatur Wrote: Anyone with a minimum of experiences with animals would agree to all you've said about 2D consciousness, so this thread is more open toward discussing polarization than actual 2D conciousness in my opinion. Yes they're a 100% sentient beings and other-selves but they're a part of a much bigger picture and their path outstretch far beyond this Earth.

(03-26-2015, 12:37 PM)Monica Wrote:

(03-26-2015, 12:14 PM)Minyatur Wrote: Anyone with a minimum of experiences with animals would agree to all you've said about 2D consciousness, so this thread is more open toward discussing polarization than actual 2D conciousness in my opinion. Yes they're a 100% sentient beings and other-selves but they're a part of a much bigger picture and their path outstretch far beyond this Earth.

Do you mean polarization of 2D entities or 3D entities? Or do you mean polarization in general?

(03-25-2015, 06:54 PM)Monica Wrote:

(03-25-2015, 02:35 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: You seem to understand but why do I get the feeling you still seem to have harsh feelings towards STS.

You have misunderstood, or maybe haven't read enough of my past writing to get where I'm coming from. I will attempt to clarify.

(03-25-2015, 02:35 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: If STS is their choice then let it be. An STS will be STS as long as it needs to and will switch when it's ready. You can't force that.

Agreed! But choices resulting in increased polarity for an STS-oriented entity may result in the opposite for an STO-oriented entity.

Regarding the issue of participating in the intentional control/domination/torture/slaughter of other-selves, that is generally regarded as common behavior for an STS-oriented entity. Intentions do come into play, meaning that we can't conclusively say exactly how much polarizing, or even in which direction, a choice results in, for any given person. But generally, yes, the 2 paths do have characteristics. The STO path tends to have characteristics of acceptance, love, compassion, peace, etc. which the STS path tends to have characteristics of hatred, control, and violence.

I acknowledge that the Logos designed this system with duality, and the STS serves an important function. But choices congruent with the STS path aren't necessarily congruent with the STO path.

My comments about making a choice to unnecessarily participate in the control/domination/torture and slaughter of other-selves, whether human or higher 2D, are intended for those who have a bias towards STO.

Recognizing the function and even importance of the STS path doesn't mean that we must participate in that path/function.

As Q'uo said (paraphrased) Theirs is a bloody path...there are those who prefer it. We are not those. We are of the radiant path.

(03-25-2015, 02:35 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: Didn't Ra said 2D is STS anyway?

Not that I recall, unless you are referring to the quote I posted about polarity starting in 2D. But it can be either STS or STO, as I recall. That is the beginning of polarity. Early 2D entities don't have any polarity.

(03-25-2015, 02:35 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: So loving animals should be equally important as loving those who eat them.

Absolutely! But it is possible to still love someone while disagreeing.

(03-25-2015, 02:35 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: And about your statement on a vegan diet being an easy thing for most people, don't you think it seems just a little irrealistic? Just a little?

No, I don't. It's a simple matter of education.

(03-25-2015, 02:35 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: Maybe the ones around you do have an easier time with being vegan but can you really apply that to the whole world?

No. I imagine the Inuits and other indigenous peoples would have a rough time with it. But I'm not really concerned about them, nor are my comments directed towards them. My comments are directed towards those in a so-called 'spiritual' community who claim to be very highly evolved, from 6D even.

(03-25-2015, 02:35 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: The fact is planet earth is a slave of corporations and their consciousness isn't raised to that level for the most part. Sure everybody have computer but if 90% of them only use it for facebook and stuff like that, what can you expect?

Interestingly, there are a number of large vegan groups on facebook, and we get new members daily. I've met a number of very beautiful, compassionate people through those groups. They've never heard of the Law of One, some are atheists, some are Christians, etc. There are even some Christian vegan groups who find Bible quotes to back up a peaceful diet. And, several of my facebook friends who were meat-eaters, have contacted me to say that they are transitioning to a vegan diet, because of what I posted on facebook.

So facebook can be useful.  

(03-25-2015, 02:35 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: I think most people are still happy not being the ones who do the killing and if you asked them to do it they wouldn't be able to. That says more about their polarity than what their unconscious choice made out of slavery of ideas do.

Agreed. For most people, it's unconscious. They've always eaten meat and never questioned it.

But presumably, Wanderers are waking up and making conscious choices...or at least they are claiming to. Can you see the incongruency of someone saying: "I know I am 6D because I am awake and learned this in my meditation...I know what star system I'm from...I know what my life mission is...and, by the way, I like bacon!"

Quote:If you have empathy and put yourself at the place of those people you would realize most of their behavior have to do with love. No matter how you look at it their behavior is always love related

(03-26-2015, 01:38 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: I like where this thread is going.

@ Monica: Do you consider your fight to be about deaths of animals regarding food only? Because I've read some disgusting things done to animals in so much other ways like seal hunting or how they just kill every animals with no owners at the SPCA on a daily basis that I find almost worst since their isn't even a reason to do that except maybe lack of love/understanding/respect. Since your that good in raising awareness why don't you include them within your fight! Maybe you already do

I honestly don't understand people being violent and murdering animals like that when there is absolutly no purpose. Food may not be a good reason to erybody but at least it's a reason. What do you think is the reason for this kind of behavior? Only selfishness? Are they only expressing their STS polarity or are they simply blinded and lacking consciousness of other consciousness?

(03-26-2015, 12:26 PM)Minyatur Wrote: @Jade

I'm gonna say this because I love being the devil's advocate but telling Monica she is wrong in doing what she does is similar to her wanting to tell people they are wrong in eating meat. Other than that I liked your post, just playing the devil's advocate

Quote:The whole purpose of this thread was to discuss the consciousness of 2D entities. It's not uncommon for the person who started xyz thread to post a lot on that thread. At any rate, that just proves my point, that there has been very little participation in the actual topic. So you blame me for responding to posts and posting more than others?? Seriously? If more people commented on the actual topic, instead of getting side-tracked, then, duh, we'd have more posts. But no one else has actually explored Ra's comments on 2D consciousness. That's not my fault, Jade.

Quote:We pay people to watch slaughterhouse videos. They are NOT forced. They are paid only $1. We are very upfront. We tell them "This is a video of how meat is produced." They can choose to watch it or not.

If killing animals is no big deal, then it should be no big deal to see how it's done. It's reality. It is real.

Quote:In your rant, you are completely leaving out the victims. Any time there is oppression, there must be a raising of awareness, if there is any hope of opening the eyes of the public who accepts that oppression. Had no one ever exposed the horrors of slavery, would anyone have bothered to help free the slaves?

Quote:I make no apologies for discussing this topic. I have made every effort to keep this thread on-topic. Ra's statements about the consciousness of our younger other-selves is a valid topic.

Quote:For the record, I struggled for many years with an addiction to cheese. Giving up meat was easy, but giving up cheese was difficult.

Quote:Your last statement is absolutely absurd...to accuse someone of judging others just by discussing a topic.

Quote:Did you miss the many times we've shown compassion to people who struggled with their taste for meat or medical issues? Apparently you missed those. Bully fest? Seriously? We vegans have never called anyone any names. NEVER. Yet many nasty insults have been flung our way, and allowed to stand. We never retaliated in kind, despite being called very nasty names.

Quote:It's impossible for anyone to feel judged by anything I or anyone else could say. I proved this with my Eating Tomatoes is STS thread. Judgment comes from within.

Quote:Now, if you or anyone else has any beef about our views, please take it up in the Cognitive Distortions thread, which is the appropriate venue for that. THIS thread is about Ra's comments on 2D consciousness.

(03-31-2015, 01:46 PM)Jade Wrote: Again, there is nothing wrong with your passion, and you have obviously helped change some minds here or sway them with your intensity. I am merely expressing a minority opinion and also playing devil's advocate, as I am a long-time vegan but I find these methods quite aggressive.

(03-31-2015, 02:29 PM)Lighthead Wrote:

(03-31-2015, 01:46 PM)Jade Wrote: Again, there is nothing wrong with your passion, and you have obviously helped change some minds here or sway them with your intensity. I am merely expressing a minority opinion and also playing devil's advocate, as I am a long-time vegan but I find these methods quite aggressive.

I realize that this particular conversation is between you and Monica, but I, for one, am grateful for Monica's persistence. If it weren't for her tenacity in posting so many threads about this, then I likely would never have come across this thread (when it was posted; not to mention the fact that, if it weren't for her persistence, there would be very few threads to find on the subject) and, subsequently, decided to become a vegan.

You can disagree with her tactics, but don't underestimate the work she has done. She really has 'changed some minds,' as you said.

(03-31-2015, 03:19 PM)Diana Wrote: Lighthead, it's refreshing to hear your acknowledgment of Monica's efforts.

I agree that Monica's exhaustive work here (and in her part of the world) to bring awareness to the issues of meat-eating are commendable. 

A few thoughts on the matter: 

1. Trying to bring awareness to an issue is not the same as trying to change others' minds. Many here, I think, get this confused. 

2. If someone is trying to bring awareness to an issue, is it correct to say that person is trying to be RIGHT, or is it more accurate to say that person is trying to see if the information was actually understood or acknowledged?

3. In my opinion, there is no ONE WAY to help the damaged 3D world humans have created. Bringing awareness to an issue is one way, and a good one, as it respects free will and leaves choice up to the person who has been made aware of the issue. 

(04-01-2015, 01:54 PM)Jade Wrote: I find it amazingly humorous that you have it in you to deride me for being a vegan for "only three years". What exactly do you want from people? Do you want everyone here screaming in perpetual agony and outrage over the existence of factory farms? Do you want us all to fawn at your feet because your service is so much nobler than the rest of ours? I'm really, officially, at a loss. Thanks for the giant laugh though.

(04-01-2015, 02:08 PM)Monica Wrote:

(04-01-2015, 01:54 PM)Jade Wrote: I find it amazingly humorous that you have it in you to deride me for being a vegan for "only three years". What exactly do you want from people? Do you want everyone here screaming in perpetual agony and outrage over the existence of factory farms? Do you want us all to fawn at your feet because your service is so much nobler than the rest of ours? I'm really, officially, at a loss. Thanks for the giant laugh though.

OMG Jade, you have completely misunderstood!!!! groan

I wasn't deriding you AT ALL for being vegan 'only 3 years'!! Not at all. Gosh, I would hope that you'd know I commend you for being vegan!!!

My point was simply to suggest that you walk a mile in my shoes before judging me.

Quote:OMG Jade, you have completely misunderstood!!!! groan

Quote:I wasn't deriding you AT ALL for being vegan 'only 3 years'!! Not at all. Gosh, I would hope that you'd know I commend you for being vegan!!!

Quote:Now, if you or anyone else has any beef about our views

Quote:I've been here longer than you've been vegan

Quote:Please let me know how you're doing in 5 years, and then again in 25.

Quote:You chastised me for being 'too aggressive' and I was simply making the point that I have been participating in these discussions, consistently, despite people being extremely rude to me, even in the early days when I was walking on eggshells and going out of my way to be considerate and non-judgmental, even when being called outright nasty names, for longer than you've been vegan.

Quote:If you thought that was derisive, then you read something into it that wasn't there. Please reread my previous post and you'll see that it's not there. My point was NOT to deride you for not being vegan as long as I have! That would be absurd!

Quote:My point was simply to suggest that you walk a mile in my shoes before judging me. Hang in there for a few years, speak up for the animals, and let's see how you respond when they call you nasty names. If you can do better, please do. I would welcome you with open arms, if you can show me how to raise awareness and answer the call of the billions of oppressed, sentient beings, without offending the oppressors. Please show me the way!

Quote:But popping in every now and then...well anyone can do that. Hang around for a few years, and then let's talk.

(04-01-2015, 02:30 PM)Diana Wrote:

(04-01-2015, 02:08 PM)Monica Wrote:

(04-01-2015, 01:54 PM)Jade Wrote: I find it amazingly humorous that you have it in you to deride me for being a vegan for "only three years". What exactly do you want from people? Do you want everyone here screaming in perpetual agony and outrage over the existence of factory farms? Do you want us all to fawn at your feet because your service is so much nobler than the rest of ours? I'm really, officially, at a loss. Thanks for the giant laugh though.

OMG Jade, you have completely misunderstood!!!! groan

I wasn't deriding you AT ALL for being vegan 'only 3 years'!! Not at all. Gosh, I would hope that you'd know I commend you for being vegan!!!

My point was simply to suggest that you walk a mile in my shoes before judging me.

Jade, regarding "only 3 years": I took Monica's post in this way as well (that you were judging her to be aggressive; and that before judging you might walk a mile in her shoes). 

If you look at your words in the quote above, do you not see them as divisive, sarcastic, and demeaning?

I think Monica is simply trying to get information across, and hoping it is understood. Perhaps she feels weary after all this time, because humans put more importance on their own existence than that of animals. 

It has become somewhat vogue to be vegan or raw vegan today. You are vegan in a friendlier climate now. Monica has been trying to raise awareness for animal rights for approx. 30 years. Perhaps you could allow her a little leeway in your judgments. Those who pave the way always have a more difficult time.

(04-01-2015, 02:38 PM)Jade Wrote: Her argument is literally "Back when I was nice, people called me names, so now I'm not nice anymore!!!"

And I'm supposed to make excuses for and support that? Also I should accept that relative to her veganism my veganism/opinion is worth less? What the heck.