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+---- Thread: Courting the maiden (/showthread.php?tid=12629)
RE: Courting the maiden - JustLikeYou - 05-30-2016
I agree with the interpretation of the prostitute as a hedonistic inclination, though I think it is more than just hedonism. Rather, the prostitute represents anything that we see as an object to be used and discarded, whether for the sake of momentary pleasure or future gain.
Thus, the idea that this is a distinction between immediate gratification and delayed gratification misses the point entirely. The point is that you don't follow the maiden for the purpose of gratification of any kind. Instead, you follow the maiden out of devotion to her, out of admiration, adoration, tenderness, and awe.
It's easy to turn a blind eye to the meaning of this card, because we don't want to admit to ourselves just how frequently we perceive ourselves and others as an object to be used and discarded. After all, our society creates and ungodly amount of trash.
But it's important to remember that we all use ourselves and others for our own gratification. And, in fact, if both parties are consenting, then there is no harm in doing it. As Jade as been suggesting, consentual hedonism is actually healthy, as long as you are aware that you're eventually going to move on from it.
The male figure is blindfolded because he doesn't realize that his refusal to choose between the two ideologies (treating self and other as object, versus treating self and other with reverence and devotion) is frustrating him. There is no reason for us to attempt to choose until we are frustrated. Thus, the more quickly we give ourselves over to victimless desires, the more quickly we will find ourselves frustrated with our hedonism, and the more quickly we will be presented with the choice to transform.
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 05-30-2016
YinYa Wrote:Minya Wrote:Well universally, I think there's many couples that don't dwell in a romantic focus in their way to love each other.
No, not when they're young lovers who are in love... This card is about temptation and desire, and sexual temptation and desire are two of the strongest forces in the human condition, so young lovers is a perfect symbolic representation of this concept, with the scantily dressed one on his left, making the left hand path seem more desirable superficially. Instant gratification (shallow) vs delayed gratification (deep).
It is still an image to hint and not the whole of the archetype, what I was trying to say is not that this is not a useful representation but that inability to move beyond one given analogy (that could've been different while not distorting the archetype any more) is unuseful because it is dwelling more in the analogy than the actual archetype which is wordless and could be defined in myriads of ways. The analogy gives direction, not what you need to find.
I also didn't think the analogy is unhelpful, just that if someone doesn't resonate with it, then it need to be broken down and extrapoliated from. In my case I broke it down to say that you have polarized relations with both yourself and others and that the transformation takes place in regard to this. I don't even see how this denies the analogy other than that positive interactions don't equate courting although courting can be seen as one.
While I get that the mated representation can be useful, you are not in a mated relationship with everything yet the archetype does apply to everything, so while it is useful, it also has limits like anything else.
YinYa Wrote:You seem determined to make your personal unfavourable view of romantic love and its elements of passion universally applicable, but I suspect you might have better luck building a snowman in hell. I have to admit this thread has been frustrating to follow sometimes, because I feel a very simple, universally understood analogy that anyone can easily identify with and apply in their understanding of this archetype, has been turned into a whirlpool of confusion.
I don't think romantic love is unfavorable, simply not universal, heavily unique to each, and definitely not the whole of the archetype.
I think building a snowman in hell is much easier than you would think, but still, how would you bring this archetype to someone with an unfavorable view of romantic love? It seems to me the analogy is not universal like you imply while the archetype itself is. It's easy to say the person wouldn't make use of the archetype while it probably does in a different manner than your own.
YinYa Wrote:Courting the positive maiden entails the heart, not the head, which also makes the lovers well suited to this analogy. This love doesn't make a great deal of sense, it's beyond comprehension, you just crave their nearness, and want to share everything with them, and am ever curious about their views and just desire their well being and happiness. It's a light-hearted, non serious, mutually joyful and playful communion.
I said I don't know how many times that an open heart is a unique experience to each, and while I get the importance of the heart, we are still discussing the transformation of the mind. It seems to me that many posts avout this archetype end up disaregarding the whole mind aspect and positionement within the tree of the mind.
The love you feel will dictate the choices you make of transformation, but newly gained awareness will offer the ability to have new choices to make. And it's not like I denied that there is a duality of polarization, I spoke of it in most of my posts.
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 05-30-2016
(05-30-2016, 11:18 AM)JustLikeYou Wrote: I agree with the interpretation of the prostitute as a hedonistic inclination, though I think it is more than just hedonism. Rather, the prostitute represents anything that we see as an object to be used and discarded, whether for the sake of momentary pleasure or future gain.
Thus, the idea that this is a distinction between immediate gratification and delayed gratification misses the point entirely. The point is that you don't follow the maiden for the purpose of gratification of any kind. Instead, you follow the maiden out of devotion to her, out of admiration, adoration, tenderness, and awe.
I had some trouble understanding how courting the ressources of others is not exactly what most STS entities would do by presenting themselves as charming and showing what others desire to see so that they freely give.
(05-30-2016, 11:18 AM)JustLikeYou Wrote: It's easy to turn a blind eye to the meaning of this card, because we don't want to admit to ourselves just how frequently we perceive ourselves and others as an object to be used and discarded. After all, our society creates and ungodly amount of trash.
But it's important to remember that we all use ourselves and others for our own gratification. And, in fact, if both parties are consenting, then there is no harm in doing it. As Jade as been suggesting, consentual hedonism is actually healthy, as long as you are aware that you're eventually going to move on from it.
The male figure is blindfolded because he doesn't realize that his refusal to choose between the two ideologies (treating self and other as object, versus treating self and other with reverence and devotion) is frustrating him. There is no reason for us to attempt to choose until we are frustrated. Thus, the more quickly we give ourselves over to victimless desires, the more quickly we will find ourselves frustrated with our hedonism, and the more quickly we will be presented with the choice to transform.
I'd say many catalysts can bring one to have to choose, self-realization does a lot and heightened awareness.
In my personal internalization of this card, it represents for me that through developing heightened respect and love for others, I will come to make choices upon the patterns of thoughts of my mind that I desire as a configuration, because each pattern of thought has it's own opposite dualized counterpart and a choice can only be made when both are known.
I still think the archetype is extremely abstract and works with illusions, and the mind unveils illusions which refines the transformation and great way of the mind. Dwelling in one's current configuration is avoiding transformation, the work is never over no matter how good you feel about your way of loving.
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 05-30-2016
(05-30-2016, 09:42 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I think one thing it might come down to is that a lot of people like to use the Law of One as a hedonistic philosophy ("experience all things desired"), which is obviously fine, but hedonism is not the end goal of the Law of One but merely a step along the way. We are supposed to "experience all things desired until they fall away", and, if we are consciously working with catalyst, we can peel away the layers of the onion ourselves that we no longer want at a more rapid pace, (while, of course, integrating more of all that is within us, which is the paradox - how do we choose to use our will?) - which is what I feel is the point of learning the archetype system. The Law of One isn't about zen nihilism either, but what Ra teaches is a specific lesson in how to integrate the mind/body/spirit complex into an STO configuration with increasing polarity. We incarnated in third density to experience polarity, to integrate the mind/BODY/spirit because it's a delicate game. Ra gave us a pretty detailed, yet cryptic, rulebook.
It's fine to say "but that's not how I use the transformation of the mind!" But, from my experience of using the transformation of the mind per Ra's instructions, it seems most of the explanations to "use the transformation in your own way" is just justification for ignoring any complex moral/ethical implications that the card implies. Yes, experience all things desired. Yes, there are no mistakes. However, there is a specific way to articulate our experience as an "honestation to the Creator" as Ra calls it, and that is understanding and using the archetypes, and singing the song of Creation along with the Logos. Of course, we all have free will to do as we please, but you can't use the right-hand Transformation of the Mind AND be hedonistic. They are incongruent. Hedonism is the path of viewing our resources as there to be plundered for our pleasure.
I think this conversation is important, because I think the Lovers card has a lot of similar themes to the Experience of the Spirit ("groping in the moonlight" - ah look, another sexual allusion). The Lovers analogy is easy to understand at its roots, but once we involve the spirit complex into the integration, intentions and desires can get muddled. So I think we're all talking about the Lovers card but in the context of the conversation I think we're all dealing with Experience of the Spirit. We have to somehow deal with what we perceive as the "black dog".
There's a part of the card that we haven't discussed, but I think it could be taken into consideration. If we look at the imp at the top, there is a common misinterpretation even though Ra says exactly what he's there for: He's there to protect the left hand transformation of the mind. Why? Because if you aren't "courting" everything, i.e. empathizing with everything and having compassion for it, which is what green-ray is about, then you are protected from the negative emotional experiences of other selves. If you are properly courting the maiden, you are actually opening yourself up to the rawest of emotions. I made the comment before that you cry with your maiden, but the prostitute's tears mean naught. That's what the genie implies. When you truly see everything as a part of you, you feel its pain as if it were your own, and feel compelled to do something about it, just as you would your own pain. The left-hand transformation avoids this experience.
Quote:14.18 Questioner: Then for the last 2,300 years you have been actively working to create as large a harvest as possible at the end of the total 75,000-year cycle. Can you state with respect to the Law of One why you do this, just as a statement of your reasons for this?
Ra: I am Ra. I speak for the social memory complex termed Ra. We came among you to aid you. Our efforts in service were perverted. Our desire then is to eliminate as far as possible the distortions caused by those misreading our information and guidance. The general cause of service such as the Confederation offers is that of the primal distortion of the Law of One, which is service. The One Being of the creation is like unto a body, if you will accept this third-density analogy. Would we ignore a pain in the leg? A bruise upon the skin? A cut which is festering? No. There is no ignoring a call. We, the entities of sorrow, choose as our service the attempt to heal the sorrow which we are calling analogous to the pains of a physical body complex distortion.
Quote:Ra: All things are acceptable in the proper time for each entity, and in experiencing, in understanding, in accepting, in then sharing with other-selves, the appropriate description shall be moving away from distortions of one kind to distortions of another which may be more consonant with the Law of One.
I don't see how this goes against anything I said.
I mainly gave examples where you could be called to be loving in a way that would not suit yourself to be loving, and you said yourself you'd rather dismiss your own inner feelings and intuition as negative greetings because they wouldn't reflect the way your mind desires to show being loving, yet would go pointlessly dance in the rain while it serves no one if asked. I gave these examples not to justify myself but to see whether or not what you have been saying holds ground only when it suits your own ways.
Also how much you dismiss any aspect of wisdom and heightened awareness as having anything to do with the transformation of the mind, does show you do not desire to see things more clearly if they imply letting go of the manner you enjoy loving others and as such you do avoid the transformation yourself.
RE: Courting the maiden - JustLikeYou - 05-30-2016
Minyatur Wrote:I had some trouble understanding how courting the ressources of others is not exactly what most STS entities would do by presenting themselves as charming and showing what others desire to see so that they freely give.
Is this past-tense to mean that you no longer have trouble understanding how this can be the case?
If so, cool.
If not, then it may help to think about the difference difference between what you understand courting to be and what Jade understands courting to be as a matter of the intentions and nuances of the person doing the courting, rather than in the most obvious outward actions. Yes, your STS depiction of the suitor presents himself charmingly and generously, but there will be subtle strings attached to his courtship.
In the sense that Jade intends the term, courting means that you spot a person who is beautiful, but whom you don't know very well. Eventually, you decide that you are ready to fall in love with her if she will have you. Then, you give her things you think she will want, whether affection, interest, gifts, praise, or just quality time. Most of all, you give her yourself honestly, without attempting to put on a show. If it turns out that she wants to be the person you fall in love with, then a romance will follow. This is as STO as it gets. Courtship in this sense is merely two people getting to know each other in every increasing intimacy. The involvement of sex is only one piece of the much grander picture.
You can, if you like, choose to interpret the word "court" in the manner you describe, which is more or less what the PUA community has become. Choosing this interpretation, however, will only increase the misunderstanding between you and Jade, because you will be using the same word in two opposite different ways.
And I will happily go out on a limb to proclaim the energy of this archetype to be expressly romantic, provided we understand that there can be a romance without physical sexual intercourse.
Minyatur Wrote:I'd say many catalysts can bring one to have to choose, self-realization does a lot and heightened awareness.
Self-realization and heightened awareness are the same phenomenon, but this can only come to you to the degree that you have intentionally explored your own feelings and desires. But how can you know what you really want and how you really feel unless you actually put yourself in situations to find out. One of the key lessons of this archetype is that we can't just will ourselves to be pure. We have to go into experience blindly, not knowing what we will prefer. We expose ourselves to all of our experiences this way: we explore music and movies to determine what we like. As our experience grows, our taste sharpens. This archetype is the end result of that slow process of experiencing and developing a subtlety of taste. What we find in the moment of the Transformation of the Mind, is that we are ready to draw a distinction in our taste for thoughts and feelings. We finally see how much it has cost us in some particular arena to try to be simultaneously loving and self-serving. It is this kind of realization that often brings people to decide to be vegetarians or to stop taking their lovers for granted.
Thus, in the end, the catalyst is of one variety: depth of experience in thought and emotion. We need to know what STO and STs feel like. If we don't, we simply can't choose. And if we try to force ourselves to choose STO, we will fail because it can't be STO if it is forced.
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 05-30-2016
Anyway, if you truly believe your manner of loving is the absolute way and that within many-ness any other way is missing the point, then I guess I shall bow out of this discussion as I am someone who places quite a lot of inportance upon relativeness when trying to understand others.
I understand how you share that you love, I do find it beautiful, but am also quite happy that many-ness blends Love into so much more than just that through each and everyone of us.
RE: Courting the maiden - JustLikeYou - 05-30-2016
You insist on disagreeing, but I have yet to see you draw a meaningful distinction between the kind of love you are attempting to describe and romantic love. Each distinction I see you draw only indicates to me that you do not understand what Jade means by "court" and what I mean by "romance".
I am willing to be wrong, but you need to point to the experience that you and I share that can show me how I am wrong.
RE: Courting the maiden - YinYang - 05-30-2016
JustLikeYou Wrote:Thus, the idea that this is a distinction between immediate gratification and delayed gratification misses the point entirely. The point is that you don't follow the maiden for the purpose of gratification of any kind. Instead, you follow the maiden out of devotion to her, out of admiration, adoration, tenderness, and awe.
This would be consistent with Art of Meditation, which I have mentioned before in this thread:
Joel Goldsmith Wrote:Let us take a good sharp scalpel and cut out of ourselves all desire for person, place, thing, circumstance, or condition. Every desire must be cut away in order that only one remains: to know Thee, whom to know aright is life eternal. Let us set our whole heart and soul and mind on the realization of God rather than on the attainment of some form of good. As we attain that realization, we enjoy all the good things of life which come forth, without becoming slaves to them or becoming attached to them and without fear of losing them.
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 05-30-2016
(05-30-2016, 01:16 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:Minyatur Wrote:I had some trouble understanding how courting the ressources of others is not exactly what most STS entities would do by presenting themselves as charming and showing what others desire to see so that they freely give.
Is this past-tense to mean that you no longer have trouble understanding how this can be the case?
If so, cool.
If not, then it may help to think about the difference difference between what you understand courting to be and what Jade understands courting to be as a matter of the intentions and nuances of the person doing the courting, rather than in the most obvious outward actions. Yes, your STS depiction of the suitor presents himself charmingly and generously, but there will be subtle strings attached to his courtship.
In the sense that Jade intends the term, courting means that you spot a person who is beautiful, but whom you don't know very well. Eventually, you decide that you are ready to fall in love with her if she will have you. Then, you give her things you think she will want, whether affection, interest, gifts, praise, or just quality time. Most of all, you give her yourself honestly, without attempting to put on a show. If it turns out that she wants to be the person you fall in love with, then a romance will follow. This is as STO as it gets. Courtship in this sense is merely two people getting to know each other in every increasing intimacy. The involvement of sex is only one piece of the much grander picture.
You can, if you like, choose to interpret the word "court" in the manner you describe, which is more or less what the PUA community has become. Choosing this interpretation, however, will only increase the misunderstanding between you and Jade, because you will be using the same word in two opposite different ways.
And I will happily go out on a limb to proclaim the energy of this archetype to be expressly romantic, provided we understand that there can be a romance without physical sexual intercourse.
I mainly find it limiting. There's more to positive intent than courting and I am not someone that goes much toward others to create connections, nor feel a need that others come up to me, although most friends I've had are the ones who did come to me.
I did experience falling in love to the point of disregarding myself when it was needed, but this was programmed within my veil and once I broke this illusion I felt angry about it for a time, because as much as it allowed beautiful sides of myself to be experienced, it was also not fully truthful of what I am. Just a temporary moment that had it's uses and since then I did more of awakening to how love is known to my soul than how I can experience it blinded within a set of illusions.
(05-30-2016, 01:16 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:Minyatur Wrote:I'd say many catalysts can bring one to have to choose, self-realization does a lot and heightened awareness.
Self-realization and heightened awareness are the same phenomenon, but this can only come to you to the degree that you have intentionally explored your own feelings and desires. But how can you know what you really want and how you really feel unless you actually put yourself in situations to find out. One of the key lessons of this archetype is that we can't just will ourselves to be pure. We have to go into experience blindly, not knowing what we will prefer. We expose ourselves to all of our experiences this way: we explore music and movies to determine what we like. As our experience grows, our taste sharpens. This archetype is the end result of that slow process of experiencing and developing a subtlety of taste. What we find in the moment of the Transformation of the Mind, is that we are ready to draw a distinction in our taste for thoughts and feelings. We finally see how much it has cost us in some particular arena to try to be simultaneously loving and self-serving. It is this kind of realization that often brings people to decide to be vegetarians or to stop taking their lovers for granted.
Thus, in the end, the catalyst is of one variety: depth of experience in thought and emotion. We need to know what STO and STs feel like. If we don't, we simply can't choose. And if we try to force ourselves to choose STO, we will fail because it can't be STO if it is forced.
Would you agree to say that within the play of mirror, this relates more to how one understand and feel about things, than definite actions that could be categorized.
Relativeness is mainly what I sought to add to the thread. The Creator is the maiden, and the Creator's desires are infinite and full of seemingly paradoxes. While I understand a focus upon accomodation of others, I believe it remains a focus upon a way of serving that suits the self, while the potential of positive service is boundless as long as one provides with love what others require. This being why, I made a distinction that the self only is open to the calls it can answer, and that transformation can allow one to ever provide new services that self was not resonant with before.
To me, I am not something that can be plundered nor can others be. All that others can truly do is illusionary feel they plunder or are plundered, while attracting each other to experience that connection and distortions of love. It's not like I can say that I have no work to do, but it is about increasing conscious respect and love others and make choices upon the harmony I desire to experience with them. I can't start seeing others as prostitutes once I see the Creator in all it's might and glory within each.
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 05-30-2016
(05-30-2016, 01:25 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote: You insist on disagreeing, but I have yet to see you draw a meaningful distinction between the kind of love you are attempting to describe and romantic love. Each distinction I see you draw only indicates to me that you do not understand what Jade means by "court" and what I mean by "romance".
I am willing to be wrong, but you need to point to the experience that you and I share that can show me how I am wrong.
I don't believe what I have been saying is really dissonant yet I was told it was, hence there should be a dinstinction.
I don't go out of my ways to reach to others, most friends I have made are the ones who came to me. I am someone who will rarely call others to see them yet will rarely reject those who wish to see me.
I don't relate much to courting because I rarely reach.
RE: Courting the maiden - YinYang - 05-30-2016
Minya Wrote:how would you bring this archetype to someone with an unfavorable view of romantic love?
I think I would tell them to go build a snowman in hell...
RE: Courting the maiden - YinYang - 05-30-2016
Minya Wrote:I did experience falling in love to the point of disregarding myself when it was needed, but this was programmed within my veil and once I broke this illusion I felt angry about it for a time, because as much as it allowed beautiful sides of myself to be experienced, it was also not fully truthful of what I am. Just a temporary moment that had it's uses and since then I did more of awakening to how love is known to my soul than how I can experience it blinded within a set of illusions.
Why do you feel it was "programmed into your veil" and why would you be angry about it? It doesn't help if you refer to things as "just illusions", when the illusion is our reality. We all lose ourselves in relationships, especially if we start disregarding ourselves for the sake of the other, but this is the problem with this discussion having morphed into a literal discussion with comparisons to ex relationship disasters and how we relate to people in our lives, because the Creator that you are seeking and courting isn't going to end up in "it was also not fully truthful of what I am" and "it had its uses" and "since then I did more of awakening to how love is known to my soul" and "being blinded within illusion", quite the contrary to all these things you described...
RE: Courting the maiden - JustLikeYou - 05-30-2016
Minyatur, it sounds like you're the one who is always courted. You're the maiden and everyone else is the suitor. Same energy, different side.
Do you get taken advantage of much?
Minyatur Wrote:Would you agree to say that within the play of mirror, this relates more to how one understand and feel about things, than definite actions that could be categorized.
Yes. Actions may be interpreted in varying ways, so intentions are where the polarity is on display. Thus the experience of this archetype is not relative in the sense that there is a resemblance between my experience of this archetype and yours. However, it is relative to the degree that we cannot understand each other's experience.
Relativity of experience is not an all or nothing affair. If it were, we couldn't have a conversation with each other about these things.
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 05-30-2016
YinYa Wrote:Minya Wrote:I did experience falling in love to the point of disregarding myself when it was needed, but this was programmed within my veil and once I broke this illusion I felt angry about it for a time, because as much as it allowed beautiful sides of myself to be experienced, it was also not fully truthful of what I am. Just a temporary moment that had it's uses and since then I did more of awakening to how love is known to my soul than how I can experience it blinded within a set of illusions.
Why do you feel it was "programmed into your veil" and why would you be angry about it?
Because I became aware that it was part of a pre-incarnative agreement and as such that it was staged that I would feel the way I did. I felt temporarily angry upon breaking the veil upon this aspect of myself, because I I felt like a fool to have played myself into experiencing what I did.
The anger was short lasting, I spent more time finding beautiful all the emotions it lead me to expériences.
YinYa Wrote:It doesn't help if you refer to things as "just illusions", when the illusion is our reality. We all lose ourselves in relationships, especially if we start disregarding ourselves for the sake of the other, but this is the problem with this discussion having morphed into a literal discussion with comparisons to ex relationship disasters and how we relate to people in our lives, because the Creator that you are seeking and courting isn't going to end up in "it was also not fully truthful of what I am" and "it had its uses" and "since then I did more of awakening to how love is known to my soul" and "being blinded within illusion", quite the contrary to all these things you described...
Was more to say that I do know what it feels like to fall in love and desire to martyr yourself. I don't consider the relationship to have been a disaster either, just that after having done psychedelics the ego that was meant to experience that has been lost.
The love as known to my soul is my own path through the thought of Love, it is my purpose within many-ness as a facet of what we all are. My soul isn't unloving and isn't alien to the concept of martyr, perhaps just that the ways I have been martyring myself aren't your typical ones and who I focus my love upon isn't the typical ones to receive love either.
In the end, however I treat others is a reflection of how I perceive myself.
RE: Courting the maiden - YinYang - 05-30-2016
Minya Wrote:In the end, however I treat others is a reflection of how I perceive myself.
Well, with this I agree - Be careful when a naked person offers you a shirt.
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 05-30-2016
(05-30-2016, 03:25 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote: Minyatur, it sounds like you're the one who is always courted. You're the maiden and everyone else is the suitor. Same energy, different side.
Do you get taken advantage of much?
I don't get taken advantage of really.. although I have little desires for myself and tend to let others have their ways. Funny to Watch their struggle of disonant desires while you can go with just about anything any of them want.
"Always" is an overstatement, I always had little friends and never sought more.
(05-30-2016, 03:25 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:Minyatur Wrote:Would you agree to say that within the play of mirror, this relates more to how one understand and feel about things, than definite actions that could be categorized.
Yes. Actions may be interpreted in varying ways, so intentions are where the polarity is on display. Thus the experience of this archetype is not relative in the sense that there is a resemblance between my experience of this archetype and yours. However, it is relative to the degree that we cannot understand each other's experience.
Relativity of experience is not an all or nothing affair. If it were, we couldn't have a conversation with each other about these things.
Well I did no deny that there are polarized relations between yourself and both yourself and others, which is what is the common ground to me.
I believe the perfectly balanced entity is able to seflessly do all of the things that are done, for no thing could be seen as with more or less love than any other. And the Creator cannot be seen as ever being plundered in this mindset, for the mechanisms of attraction dictates what meets in an harmony that cannot be broken. So while none of us have the perfect balance, each of us as a unique balance to work from and all of our interactions are with what required us to be as we were.
This is why forgiveness breaks the Wheel of karma, for grudges attract lessons to be learned while forgiveness/letting go simply opens oneself that things happened as they were meant to happen, and that all was ever well.
RE: Courting the maiden - ricdaw - 05-31-2016
I had a personal spiritual epiphany 17 years ago.
An immediate consequence of this epiphany was a rending (I use this word because there was a bruising feel, though without true pain) and a thrumming (literally, inside my body a vibration) and a heat (literally, other people could feel it too) and an expansion of (what I later learned) was my heart chakra. (Sorry for all these parentheticals but the words of the experience are too shallow to contain it.)
Basically, my heart grew 10 sizes in one day. (Thank you Dr. Seuss.)
My subjective state was of being in love . . . . with everything. My friends and colleagues thought I was on drugs. I was in shock because it was an overwhelming sense of love (not joy, not attraction, not courtship, not plunder) but purpose. That’s as close as I can come to it. I felt I had a purpose. And everything else had a purpose too. And that includes every “thing” and every “event” too (an event being simply a psychological “object” and a “thing” in and of itself). So I was transported from a Random Cause-and-Effect Universe into a Conscious and Loving Universe . . . all at once. And without actually going anywhere.
(I will add another parenthetical to acknowledge that my expanded heart state was also pure power as well. I could manifest things within exceedingly short periods of time. So short that I could have an internal thought and watch it unfold/come into beingness outside of me. This “love” is as much a pure form of energy as is light or electricity. It is spiritual power. And it was coming through me as much as it was being generated by me.)
This spiritual transformation was, I believe, also a “transformation of the mind” within the meaning of the Lovers Card, even though it occurred as an entirely solo activity (no partner) and did not involve a conscious choice at all. My transformation did not involve any aspect of the STO/STS polarity choice. Yet, still, I believe the Lover’s Card was in full play and applicable.
So the card seems to have these prime meanings: 1. The first conscious recognition of the STS vs STO choice that an entity has probably already unconsciously adopted for some time/lives. 2. The “way” to love another entity (plunder/exploitation/self-gratification vs. acceptance/giving unconditionally/admiration) (instant gratification/temptation vs. delayed gratification) (treating self and other as object, versus treating self and other with reverence and devotion). 3. How to put the deep mind “to work” (intentionally using the mind to do things, make things, and to create v. letting the deep mind itself send up the desired action, which I called a “longing” or a calling or the whispers from the Higher Self exhorting me to do stuff that I had “no mind” to do on my own. 4. Doing “good” vs. doing not-good (discerning the intent behind thought, word or deed before the doing of it).
And I was changed. My legal career would soon end (voluntarily) as I started to own up to the transformation and shed the things that I no longer needed. One of which was being acknowledged by my peers as having a brilliant legal mind.
And I was changed. I had instant activation of Blue Ray (surprise!) and could give perfect strangers the most incredible from-the-heart advice, which I did not actually consciously know, but which seemed to flow out of my mouth without conscious control. (Indeed, I describe these talks as out-of-body experiences because I was astonished by what was coming out of my own mouth with such earnestness. I felt I was two people, one speaking and the other watching myself speak the most profound things.)
And I was changed. The universe collapsed into perfection, and I ceased to have any desire or need to change any of it. I simply accepted it, as is. (And I accepted me too.) In this way, I have abandoned one “way” completely, the way of “self as primary focus of self.” And yet, still, I am not a self-less person. I “put my mind to work” solving problems and making money. I shop at places that a more socially conscious person would avoid. I don’t always give money to beggars. I don’t always think charitable thoughts. And yet and yet, that’s okay too because I am part of a Perfect and Loving and Conscious Universe.
I still live IN the world. I accept this. The world is not perfect. But I accept that at another level, it really is perfect, so I don’t need to DO anything about it, if I do not want to.
And, I help when I can.
RE: Courting the maiden - Night Owl - 06-01-2016
I have noticed something about all those different perspectives in the thread. It made me wonder: What do you guys consider to be a ''transformed'' entity?
Rather than describing the act of transformation, there is much more room for different people to express different results.
And this leads me also to quesion how do you use archetypes as tools? Or for what purpose?
My personal take on that is that since Ra said that waking up is a goal, if I would want to be radiating as much love as possible I have no other choice but to pierce my veil in order to reach for love as it is known to my soul because what I am here is not what I really am. So a transformed entity to me is an entity whose veil has been pierced in order to reach for the divine love that is already contained within one's soul. I see the archetypes in turn as tools used to pierce the veil. As such, I could have radiating open green ray love as a goal, but all I need for that is proper understanding of chakras and energy transfers. If I use the archetypes then I can reach for what isn't contained within a m/b/s complex. When using both it is possible to radiate love through all chakras even those who are not mentioned in the 7 most known chakras. I would then tend to see radiating green ray love as a desire and waking up as a goal. Which means that to me the transformation goes through waking up, but without denying that experiencing love is the main desire throught this waking up.
But that's all just personal interpretation I suppose.
RE: Courting the maiden - ricdaw - 06-01-2016
Night Owl wrote:
"I have noticed something about all those different perspectives in the thread. It made me wonder: What do you guys consider to be a ''transformed'' entity?
Rather than describing the act of transformation, there is much more room for different people to express different results.
And this leads me also to question how do you use archetypes as tools? Or for what purpose?"
I think of the archetypes (mostly) as significant experiences/events/understandings. I do not use them as tools, but I do notice and think about them when I am in the midst of one of these experiences/events/understandings, or when others are. They help me recognize when something important is happening.
To me a transformed entity is visible in the Afterlife. There is a comparison of the soul before incarnation with the soul after incarnation. I do not worry about being transformed here and now, as I do not have the senses to "see" the progression of those orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo chakras and have to trust that whatever progression and benefit that has occurred will be recognizable later (when I'm dead).
I think the only "waking up" that is important (to me) is to recognize the fact of reincarnation, the fact that the primary purpose here in the Earth Life School is soul development and the need to "polarize." With that, you become a conscious entity and a co-creator with your Higher Self from that point onward. Everything else is gravy.
The one caveat, if I were a Wanderer, waking up would include waking up to that fact as well, and then possibly making the attempt to figure out if there was some special purpose you set yourself to, other than raising the vibrations of the planet.
RE: Courting the maiden - Night Owl - 06-02-2016
Excellent post once again ricdaw.
I think aside the wanderer concept we all have the potential to allign to a greater self be it (creator, logos, sub-logos, social/memory/complex, higher self, unveiled self, past lives). I think it is possible that without coming here with a plan of your own one can also allign with a greater plan because all is one. Every plans are your plan. I think Ra doesn't want to break the selfs of every reader of the Law of One into giving too much keys that could render the incarnation useless by for exemple giving shortcuts out of 3D for those whose learning process is far from over, assuming their presence is their own freewill and protecting it.
But what seperates each density, octaves or any kind of worlds or universes is veiling, and again further veiling. The infinite creator has no boundaries to his love and therefore no veiling. I think it is possible to connect to that love. I see the archetypes as a mean to allign with the greatest love that is known to the logos and that is allowed to be channeled through oneself depending on their personal bias and distortions and as such I see no point in dwelling in any conception that can restrain that love.
I don't resonate much with the concept of wanderer because I don't feel like I am here to fullfill any group's duty. I am here as a sub-creator and I serve every other creators. But I think if you would honestly want to be one then you would be accepted as one and be a channel of the love this s/m/c has to offer if your soul has the required openness to love/light. All that is required I guess is some willingness to commit to a group plan which is personally not my cup of tea but I see no point in serving myself over others either.
I'd like to do a quick analogy on what I meant by implying the archetypes can be seen as tools.
I see the the octave like a game and the 3D experience like a floor in a tower. Different incarnations is like different saves of the same game. They each are different from one another in the paths that are taken. Even though one cannot go from stage 1 to stage 8 without completing each subsequent stages it is still possible to remember that you are without any veil the player that played each of those different saves and that you already know how to complete this game deep inside your unconscious. This game is the tower of love in which each floor brings a new level of seperation from which you must find how to break the illusion with your different weapons/tools. The 3rd floor is the floor of forgetting and you are in complete darkness. It serves the purpose of choosing consciously love as your final weapon and you gotta stick to it until the end. Before that you have access to experience every tools the game can provide. On this floor though, all your tools/weapons are removed from you and you have only the self as a landmark and all you can do is travel in different directions hitting the walls in every of them like a complete fool. Radiating 4D love is the requirement for getting to the 4th floor, it is what will light up the floor. But the game goal is not to find your home on the fourth floor and unless you pierce the veil, you will get stuck at 4th floor forever with a shiny light. I see the archetypes as having access to a walkthrough guide with tips on how to find back your weapon with experience from an other experienced player. There are different tools(mirrors, other selfs, catalyst, experiences), but the one you are looking for is the one that can beat every stages, the one that can (save the princess, beat the boss, win the race). But the final reward is actually to know yourself.
This is the one that knows how to express your self in total allignment with the love known to the logos. It is the one that will create the most passion through you. It is the one that will remove the veil that makes the player see seperation between different parts of himself.
With this analogy I am able to express how I see radiating love as a desire, because I desire to find my path through those floors and I need to understand the 3rd floor of my unconscious self to get to love myself/other self and how the real goal, or the most alligned love to find is to get to know myself as everything that is. Each realization of an important moment like you describe as being an archetype is a key towards alligning yourself with what you truely are. It is what Ra describes as finding the love in the moment. You can find that love from yourself by knowing yourself and accepting/loving your own light and darkness and becoming the light that guides others and feel the reflection of their love towards you. You can also find it from others by seeing the light in others when getting to understand them and therefore understand yourself as them by also accepting/loving their light and darkness.
In the end what this game has to reveal is what is already known to the player instinctively. This game is between you and yourself. It is about loving yourself, knowing yourself, accepting yourself and being yourself. And you can only teach that to yourself through others who are simply different saves of the same game. Playing it multiple times makes the player more accustomed to the process of knowing itself and embraces the act of exploring itself in infinite ways. The player will want to explore all the tools to understand every mechanics of the different challenges he faces but he knows in his deep mind that love/acceptance will always be the weapon of choice to overcome any situations.
RE: Courting the maiden - Shemaya - 06-02-2016
Ricdaw,
Thank you for sharing your amazing experience. It makes so much sense to me from a 4th density perspective of this archetype. You had full Activation of your heart and energetic system. In 4th density, no choice is necessary, you already are love ,and that is the transformative power. It is beyond polarity, and beyond " choice".
I really like seeing an example of a very positive Activation experience , thank you so much for sharing!
RE: Courting the maiden - ricdaw - 06-02-2016
(06-02-2016, 04:23 AM)Night Owl Wrote: I see the the octave like a game and the 3D experience like a floor in a tower. Different incarnations is like different saves of the same game. They each are different from one another in the paths that are taken. Even though one cannot go from stage 1 to stage 8 without completing each subsequent stages it is still possible to remember that you are without any veil the player that played each of those different saves and that you already know how to complete this game deep inside your unconscious.Oh my! What a beautiful analogy. I am going to steal that and use it myself. (It is hard to explain spiritual evolution to folks at parties!) Also, as an aside, your analogy is a perfect example (to me anyway) of the Emperor card and the discernment and observation inherent in it. So your analogy is a manifestation of card IV. It will ripple out to others as I start using it . . . .
Namaste.
RE: Courting the maiden - Jade - 06-03-2016
Quote:I don't see how this goes against anything I said.
I mainly gave examples where you could be called to be loving in a way that would not suit yourself to be loving, and you said yourself you'd rather dismiss your own inner feelings and intuition as negative greetings because they wouldn't reflect the way your mind desires to show being loving, yet would go pointlessly dance in the rain while it serves no one if asked. I gave these examples not to justify myself but to see whether or not what you have been saying holds ground only when it suits your own ways.
Also how much you dismiss any aspect of wisdom and heightened awareness as having anything to do with the transformation of the mind, does show you do not desire to see things more clearly if they imply letting go of the manner you enjoy loving others and as such you do avoid the transformation yourself.
I do not believe this experience is not just about blindly trusting your intuition - the veil is there to confuse our intuition. We use the archetypes to pierce the veil. You were right that at its face my analogy doesn't stand up, because you -shouldn't- just blindly do what the maiden asks - not at first - it is about cultivating a level of discernment. But the discernment is felt through the heart and not through the mind. Activating the green-ray. In my example, I was speaking from the experience of consciously working with courting the maiden and then listening to her impulses. I was also talking about an act for the self, that didn't involve the complex free will implications of involving others in your spontaneous act of joy. It was a poor analogy in context because it didn't actually involve any "resources" of others, except the will of the maiden as a resource. But again, there are "two" maidens, in my example again I was presuming that one would be able to discern that.
You say that you would listen to your maiden if she told you that you should murder someone. That's fine. That's not how to use the transformation of the mind, IMO, but it's how your use your free will and that's totally fine. (We didn't have free will before the veil!) The fact is, we are constantly getting "negative" thoughts/impulses - through the veil. What if Carla did everything her maiden asked of her - she would have been displaced into negative 6th density. Instead, she took the extra moment to move into her heart chakra (Christ energy) every time she went into trance to make sure that the "greeting" was of the proper type.
Dancing in the rain was used as an example because it was an act of spontaneous joy that may then in turn lead to another act of spontaneous joy. Sure, again, I wasn't saying -explicitly- what I meant, so I apologize that one part of my analogy doesn't "hold up" to both transformations. But my point on the archetype is that we all get negative impulses, to say, assault someone out of anger or to run our car off the road, we've discussed these things, they're part of the veiled human experience. This is what I consider a "negative greeting". We don't give in to our bad impulses, most of the time. So the "bad" impulses refine themselves so that they appear more palatable. This is all a constant test, whether we like it or not. It's not pass/fail though because time is an illusion, it's just a series of moments laid upon each other, and each subsequent moment we hope to do "better" than the moment before. We can choose unity, or separation. Yes there is unity in separation, but if you are actively separating with your thoughts/actions, you aren't engaging in unity (yes another paradox). That's the point of the transformation.
The manner I desire to love others is the manner they desire to be loved. If someone asks me for food, that's asking for love and I'll give it to them. If someone asks me to ignore them and let them sleep, I'll try to give them that love, too. If someone wants love that causes them death as a victim, I'm going to let someone else be the bearer of that love, but I will still allow it and allow others to have that type of love. My point is that those who want "that type of love" are moving to a different planet as this one shifts to 4D - which is not solely my decision or doing, I'm just here to help, and I feel that very, very clearly. Change is happening. You may want to be outside of change by not affecting things but that is not truly experiencing all facets of the Creator - the Creator who desires, who changes, who reaches out in love and comfort to all those about it, especially those in this difficult, veiled experience.
You tell me I'm not using the transformation of the mind in the way you see it and you are right. There are two transformations of the mind. Again, it's not just about "changing the mind into any new configuration", it's about using the mind complex to polarize more and more thoroughly. I'm going to always do my best to only use one transformation of the mind, because that is the whole point. So I agree with you that I'm not using the transformation of the mind in the way that you understand it.
I had a thought while driving the other day about this archetype, and where it is in our modern culture. There's actually a ubiquitously (though usually facetiously) used trope that I think is our modern/Christian interpretation - no romance, but more religion.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodAngelBadAngel
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 06-03-2016
(06-03-2016, 10:31 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:Quote:I don't see how this goes against anything I said.
I mainly gave examples where you could be called to be loving in a way that would not suit yourself to be loving, and you said yourself you'd rather dismiss your own inner feelings and intuition as negative greetings because they wouldn't reflect the way your mind desires to show being loving, yet would go pointlessly dance in the rain while it serves no one if asked. I gave these examples not to justify myself but to see whether or not what you have been saying holds ground only when it suits your own ways.
Also how much you dismiss any aspect of wisdom and heightened awareness as having anything to do with the transformation of the mind, does show you do not desire to see things more clearly if they imply letting go of the manner you enjoy loving others and as such you do avoid the transformation yourself.
I do not believe this experience is not just about blindly trusting your intuition - the veil is there to confuse our intuition. We use the archetypes to pierce the veil. You were right that at its face my analogy doesn't stand up, because you -shouldn't- just blindly do what the maiden asks - not at first - it is about cultivating a level of discernment. But the discernment is felt through the heart and not through the mind. Activating the green-ray. In my example, I was speaking from the experience of consciously working with courting the maiden and then listening to her impulses. I was also talking about an act for the self, that didn't involve the complex free will implications of involving others in your spontaneous act of joy. It was a poor analogy in context because it didn't actually involve any "resources" of others, except the will of the maiden as a resource. But again, there are "two" maidens, in my example again I was presuming that one would be able to discern that.
My example was built upon using your heart and not your mind. I said a few times that I put my intuition into words if I care to but that it is mainly just feelings. When put into words you process within your mind why the feelings are as they are.
I agree about discernement although discernement comes from experience which is part of the fool's journey through the many paths. We each have a unique veil that requires our paths to be walked differently and we each will open to a unique blending of our essence to which we can find alignment with.
(06-03-2016, 10:31 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: You say that you would listen to your maiden if she told you that you should murder someone. That's fine. That's not how to use the transformation of the mind, IMO, but it's how your use your free will and that's totally fine. (We didn't have free will before the veil!) The fact is, we are constantly getting "negative" thoughts/impulses - through the veil. What if Carla did everything her maiden asked of her - she would have been displaced into negative 6th density. Instead, she took the extra moment to move into her heart chakra (Christ energy) every time she went into trance to make sure that the "greeting" was of the proper type.
Well I know my maiden would not ask this of me for obvious reasons, probably an inability to feel love while doing the deed.
In regards to Calrla, I would believe being displaced into a negative density could have allowed her to learn to find a greater love within herself, greater understanding of other-selves that are there to be love. Still this is an experience little would willingly and consciously go with, although I believe there are some that do move from the Light to the Dark without being veiled for the sake of better understanding both others and themselves.
Still just is ultimately resistance to know yourself as it takes time to distill and find the underlying love. Darkness is dark when it is not understood as Light.
(06-03-2016, 10:31 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: Dancing in the rain was used as an example because it was an act of spontaneous joy that may then in turn lead to another act of spontaneous joy. Sure, again, I wasn't saying -explicitly- what I meant, so I apologize that one part of my analogy doesn't "hold up" to both transformations. But my point on the archetype is that we all get negative impulses, to say, assault someone out of anger or to run our car off the road, we've discussed these things, they're part of the veiled human experience. This is what I consider a "negative greeting". We don't give in to our bad impulses, most of the time. So the "bad" impulses refine themselves so that they appear more palatable. This is all a constant test, whether we like it or not. It's not pass/fail though because time is an illusion, it's just a series of moments laid upon each other, and each subsequent moment we hope to do "better" than the moment before. We can choose unity, or separation. Yes there is unity in separation, but if you are actively separating with your thoughts/actions, you aren't engaging in unity (yes another paradox). That's the point of the transformation.
I think my example was mainly about a form of martyr and you said you wouldn't want to martyr yourself in this way, which is fine.
My example was still about you feeling called to do this through a feeling of love, else yeah my example makes no sense within the context.
(06-03-2016, 10:31 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: The manner I desire to love others is the manner they desire to be loved. If someone asks me for food, that's asking for love and I'll give it to them. If someone asks me to ignore them and let them sleep, I'll try to give them that love, too. If someone wants love that causes them death as a victim, I'm going to let someone else be the bearer of that love, but I will still allow it and allow others to have that type of love. My point is that those who want "that type of love" are moving to a different planet as this one shifts to 4D - which is not solely my decision or doing, I'm just here to help, and I feel that very, very clearly. Change is happening. You may want to be outside of change by not affecting things but that is not truly experiencing all facets of the Creator - the Creator who desires, who changes, who reaches out in love and comfort to all those about it, especially those in this difficult, veiled experience.
Like I said in another thread yesterday, I'd love to see this earth being allowed to further it's experiences within more 3D cycles without legions of light being, that were not even incarnating here before the harvest period, come and lock this planet forcefully into their desired outcome, removing most of humanity from it's social and racial minds that had an on-going evolution and also it's own choice. Even though it is done through radiating light, I see control driven by these legions' inhability to distill this place as worthwhile in their eyes.
I believe I incarnated both with positive and negative settings for myself depending of what I thought was useful and in an attempt to allow humanity to make it's own choices. I played many roles where I have both allowed myself to not be loving (which does a lot of hurting self) and also overly loving into martyring myself for others. I think I am part of a group that has been at work for a long time in this world and I don't adhere to this forceful STO harvest ideology and see a lack of love or rather understanding for this place.
Might just be projecting that on you though.
(06-03-2016, 10:31 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: You tell me I'm not using the transformation of the mind in the way you see it and you are right. There are two transformations of the mind. Again, it's not just about "changing the mind into any new configuration", it's about using the mind complex to polarize more and more thoroughly. I'm going to always do my best to only use one transformation of the mind, because that is the whole point. So I agree with you that I'm not using the transformation of the mind in the way that you understand it.
Well in my case the archetype is a tool for alignment and the two choices are mainly for a 3D transition into 4D. I seek alignment with my unconscious more than any path and am well aware I am already able to go into 4D and beyond in both polarized densities if I so desire without needing to do it from 3D.
The archetype as a tool still is there, I make a different use of it than what Ra suggests.
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 06-03-2016
Also I did make the choice that I desire to be loving and found extemely little desire for negativity within myself although I do restrain my potential to be positive. I find no pleasure in using others nor elevating myself.
I believe I have been dwelling in negative densities longer than necessary out of love for those who are there and who so little seek to help and understand. I work off my resistance and feeling of forsaking them while allowing myself to desire what is best for myself through using a veil. So the concept of polarity becomes an abstract paradox that isn't truly there and more a matter of what I desire to allow myself to be loving toward while knowing that whatever choice I make still will have negative counterparts whether I want it or not.
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 06-03-2016
To go back on the archetype, I believe it is used when it seeks alignment with something. In my case I desire to be loving yet also to not betray myself in the process, which is part of how I desire to be loving.
RE: Courting the maiden - Jade - 06-03-2016
Quote:My example was still about you feeling called to do this through a feeling of love, else yeah my example makes no sense within the context.
And my point is that "both the virginal and prostituted mind await the reaching", i.e. the prostitute needs love too, and will ask for it and expect it in the way that she's used to. It's how we go about expressing that love that is important, not just that we give it. Am I going to respond to her initial, shallow cry for help, i.e., have sex with me and pay me for it so I can use the transferable resources in another way, or am I going to find a better way to facilitate that energy exchange? Again, you can feel love while pillaging the earth and drilling a huge hole and singing songs about money while you do it - but this isn't the type of "love" we are talking about!!! This card is about cultivating green-ray compassion on the STO path. Is someone drilling into the earth's crust to extract its resources purely for financial gain doing it out of compassion? No. They are doing it out of "love", though, certainly!!
You can be upset about "forced harvest" but this is so much of what Ra's philosophy is about, it's not just my shallow interpretation. 4D is coming/here. 3D energies are still lingering for all of those who want them, but slowly those who need them are incarnating on another planet where the 3D energies are still "entrenched". I mean, I think this is the best thing that can be done to preserve free will at this point - the clock has struck the hour, as Ra says. Are your intentions of service to delay the harvest of the planet? I think this is something that's way bigger than we can possibly imagine, Harvest doesn't just involve this one planet or this one race of incarnate 3rd density entities.
I do not know on the grand scale why the Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow answer the calls of service in the ways they do, such as the way they answer calls from other densities and by sending Wanderers here. But one thing I take on faith is that it must be a valiant effort and goal to work towards, to help be the catalyst towards another's spiritual progress. A catalyst is the process of adding something to the mix to change it. We're all catalyst all the time, it's just a matter of refining the chemical reaction we are trying to instigate.
You said in another post that you just don't reach often, and that's why it's hard to resonate with courting. And I think this is exactly why Ra says "go forth and court" - because the archetypes are also about developing the will. Sure, I don't like to "reach" either, but another thing I take on faith is Ra's instructions to move about amongst other entities as a good service - I resonate very strongly with this. So, I'm trying to cultivate how, where, what I reach for - that is the whole point. My mind complex is constantly feeding unconscious "reaches", it's about learning how to cultivate a real desire for something to reach for. Yeah, Carla could have let the negative entity sweep her away to negative time/space, and sure, she would have learned lots of lessons about love and herself, but she is a Co-Creator and she used the power of her will to reach for an experience that aligned more with her personal desires as a fragmented piece of the Creator trying to have a co-operative experience. Desire itself it's not a bad thing, we've just complicated it thoroughly with the veil.
3rd density, as Ra describes it, is a very complex "simulation" where there are lots of rules and lots of trial and error attempts have been made to perfect its experience. We're supposed to interact with it while we are incarnated, otherwise, I believe, we are totally missing the point. We can spend eons in 5th density in a cave by ourselves sending love and light and letting others reach and cultivating our own wisdom, but we are here to make choices. We are here to experience the limitations of those choices, of choosing one thing and letting go of another - which is precisely the opposite of infinity. That's what the veil is for. That's why most Wanderers are 6th density - they spent all that time cultivating wisdom, time to be foolish again! Ignorance is bliss after all.
Quote:93.24 Questioner: I am assuming that you mean one full question, and I’ll make that question: I’d like to know the significance of the shape of the crux ansata, and if that’s too much of an answer I will just ask if there is anything we can do to make the instrument more comfortable or improve the contact?
Ra: I am Ra. There are mathematical ratios within this image which may yield informative insights to one fond of riddles. We shall not untangle the riddle. We may indicate that the crux ansata is a part of the concept complexes of the archetypical mind, the circle indicating the magic of the spirit, the cross indicating that nature of manifestation which may only be valued by the losing. Thus the crux ansata is intended to be seen as an image of the eternal in and through manifestation and beyond manifestation through the sacrifice and transformation of that which is manifest.
Quote:To go back on the archetype, I believe it is used when it seeks alignment with something. In my case I desire to be loving yet also to not betray myself in the process, which is part of how I desire to be loving.
And, again, you are free to use the transformation of the mind as you please, however, I will not acquiesce to accepting that your description of the archetype is representative of what Ra talks about with the transformation of the mind. What do you mean by, "to not betray myself in the process"? Because to me that seems like a caveat that allows you to avoid the type of dedication that is required/implied by the card. How can you betray yourself if you are serving the will of All? I feel as if you haven't actually studied Ra's archetypes with depth but have inferred your own course after discarding Ra's. I have no problem with that, except in the context of this thread where we are talking about courting the maiden.
Any thoughts on any of the other elements I've tried to introduce into the conversation? What do you make of the genie? How do you feel about the word compassion?
RE: Courting the maiden - Night Owl - 06-03-2016
For my part it has never been about disagreeing or discarting Ra just that Ra's plan is Ra's plan. My way of loving earth and it's people is to let them express their freewill. I want earth to be a perfect reflection of it's people's desires under the veil and not what is desired in higher density. If that means another cycle, than that's not for me to decide. If it means going full STS suddenly, that's also not mine to decide. All I can do without betraying myself is loving in a way that is myself which means I am not someone who reaches out much and answer the calls that I reosnate with. If it seems effortless to help someone I will never ever doubt it. If I feel great amount of resistance, there is also a reason. I sure can court the maiden anyway but I would be alligning with something I am not and thus betraying myself. I know the self is in constant change and progression but the resistance is a sign that I am not following the desires of my soul. I think the point about freewill is that you are the best gift to the universe when fully being yourself and trying to overcome what I am by forcing an action that I am not in allignment with is gonna lead me to be a martyr. I think Ra already knows that at some point being a martyr isn't the best way to serve. I also don't think I am here to learn how to harvest 4D. That's well known to my soul what is love and what is not. So I take it as I'm finding the best way to express it as the self I am here to incarnate rather than being a representative of Ra's plan. I also let Ra do what they do because they do it for a reason and they seem to refine their way of serving 3D worlds by observing cause-consequences of their communications. I just don't resonate with Ra's shadow self of trying to control other world's polarity and harvest. That's why I try not to change everything that's in front of me. But I will always try to love it actively and that's what I call active transformation.
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 06-03-2016
(06-03-2016, 01:57 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:Quote:My example was still about you feeling called to do this through a feeling of love, else yeah my example makes no sense within the context.
And my point is that "both the virginal and prostituted mind await the reaching", i.e. the prostitute needs love too, and will ask for it and expect it in the way that she's used to. It's how we go about expressing that love that is important, not just that we give it. Am I going to respond to her initial, shallow cry for help, i.e., have sex with me and pay me for it so I can use the transferable resources in another way, or am I going to find a better way to facilitate that energy exchange? Again, you can feel love while pillaging the earth and drilling a huge hole and singing songs about money while you do it - but this isn't the type of "love" we are talking about!!! This card is about cultivating green-ray compassion on the STO path. Is someone drilling into the earth's crust to extract its resources purely for financial gain doing it out of compassion? No. They are doing it out of "love", though, certainly!!
Not sure you really understand my point. Don't you have crystals anyway? You look at those and feel sorry that you are partaking in the product of plunder or see that they are a portion of the earth that was meant and sought to be spread?
I think there's infinitely more to green-ray compassion on the STO path than making mindless soldiers that follow a single template within that path.
(06-03-2016, 01:57 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: You can be upset about "forced harvest" but this is so much of what Ra's philosophy is about, it's not just my shallow interpretation. 4D is coming/here. 3D energies are still lingering for all of those who want them, but slowly those who need them are incarnating on another planet where the 3D energies are still "entrenched". I mean, I think this is the best thing that can be done to preserve free will at this point - the clock has struck the hour, as Ra says. Are your intentions of service to delay the harvest of the planet? I think this is something that's way bigger than we can possibly imagine, Harvest doesn't just involve this one planet or this one race of incarnate 3rd density entities.
The clock has struck the hour within one cycle. Humanity is not ready in it's choice yet is deprived of it's choice by higher density beings who do not desire to see further cycles happen for their own reasons. As long as there is a call that can justify their presence, they will do as they will while disregarding the vast majority of the inhabitants of this world. To me this quite heavily feels like plundering.
The cycles are cycles, they are made to be allowed to repeat as much as needed. But sure, these beings want to move on in their own cycle and as long as they feel loving about themselves and get to increase their own polarity, all is well and it cannot be called plundering
(06-03-2016, 01:57 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I do not know on the grand scale why the Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow answer the calls of service in the ways they do, such as the way they answer calls from other densities and by sending Wanderers here. But one thing I take on faith is that it must be a valiant effort and goal to work towards, to help be the catalyst towards another's spiritual progress. A catalyst is the process of adding something to the mix to change it. We're all catalyst all the time, it's just a matter of refining the chemical reaction we are trying to instigate.
This is like in any portion of evolution within this Octave, they answer what justifies their own desires. You can trust me that I do not find their ways to be nearly as loving as they are presented to be.
(06-03-2016, 01:57 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: You said in another post that you just don't reach often, and that's why it's hard to resonate with courting. And I think this is exactly why Ra says "go forth and court" - because the archetypes are also about developing the will. Sure, I don't like to "reach" either, but another thing I take on faith is Ra's instructions to move about amongst other entities as a good service - I resonate very strongly with this. So, I'm trying to cultivate how, where, what I reach for - that is the whole point. My mind complex is constantly feeding unconscious "reaches", it's about learning how to cultivate a real desire for something to reach for. Yeah, Carla could have let the negative entity sweep her away to negative time/space, and sure, she would have learned lots of lessons about love and herself, but she is a Co-Creator and she used the power of her will to reach for an experience that aligned more with her personal desires as a fragmented piece of the Creator trying to have a co-operative experience. Desire itself it's not a bad thing, we've just complicated it thoroughly with the veil.
Reaching is not an alien concept to myself, just something I inherently don't have a need for.
I rather know what I am doing than mindlessly reach without much of a care for the consequences, while blinding myself to the own selfishness and hypocrisy of what I do. I think you seem to miss that what you can consider higher ways of love, to me may feel deeply as being without love. Just as you seem to feel that way about my own ways.
What Carla did or could've done matters not, if she had went into a negative time/space she would have come to love that she did and wish it to not have happened differently. That was my point.
(06-03-2016, 01:57 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: 3rd density, as Ra describes it, is a very complex "simulation" where there are lots of rules and lots of trial and error attempts have been made to perfect its experience. We're supposed to interact with it while we are incarnated, otherwise, I believe, we are totally missing the point. We can spend eons in 5th density in a cave by ourselves sending love and light and letting others reach and cultivating our own wisdom, but we are here to make choices. We are here to experience the limitations of those choices, of choosing one thing and letting go of another - which is precisely the opposite of infinity. That's what the veil is for. That's why most Wanderers are 6th density - they spent all that time cultivating wisdom, time to be foolish again! Ignorance is bliss after all.
Are you trying to convince me I came into these lands for the same reasons you did? Because I very well doubt that.
I think you miss how vast this Creation is and how there are infinite opinions about 3D and it's many uses.
(06-03-2016, 01:57 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:Quote:93.24 Questioner: I am assuming that you mean one full question, and I’ll make that question: I’d like to know the significance of the shape of the crux ansata, and if that’s too much of an answer I will just ask if there is anything we can do to make the instrument more comfortable or improve the contact?
Ra: I am Ra. There are mathematical ratios within this image which may yield informative insights to one fond of riddles. We shall not untangle the riddle. We may indicate that the crux ansata is a part of the concept complexes of the archetypical mind, the circle indicating the magic of the spirit, the cross indicating that nature of manifestation which may only be valued by the losing. Thus the crux ansata is intended to be seen as an image of the eternal in and through manifestation and beyond manifestation through the sacrifice and transformation of that which is manifest.
Quote:To go back on the archetype, I believe it is used when it seeks alignment with something. In my case I desire to be loving yet also to not betray myself in the process, which is part of how I desire to be loving.
And, again, you are free to use the transformation of the mind as you please, however, I will not acquiesce to accepting that your description of the archetype is representative of what Ra talks about with the transformation of the mind. What do you mean by, "to not betray myself in the process"? Because to me that seems like a caveat that allows you to avoid the type of dedication that is required/implied by the card. How can you betray yourself if you are serving the will of All? I feel as if you haven't actually studied Ra's archetypes with depth but have inferred your own course after discarding Ra's. I have no problem with that, except in the context of this thread where we are talking about courting the maiden.
More than saying I've been using the transformation of the mind as I please, which I am well aware of, I think I have mainly been trying to explain to you that you are using the transformation of the mind as you please while trying to blind yourself to that fact. Just as the way Ra has described using it is also but a whim. The archetype is more than what use you can make of it, it is what allows it to be used. You plunder nothing as long as you don't feel like you aren't plundering a thing, but like you disagree with what I can consider plundering to be, I also disagree with what you consider plundering to be and probably would find many things in your way of loving that I would consider myself to be plundering if I did.
You so often tell me that I seek to justify myself but what I see is that by denying the relative aspect of it, you justify your own self and ways. What I mean by not betraying myself is exactly what you have expressed about that you would never agree to eat meat even if it meant offering a green-ray STO service. You can only offer love as you can feel it and I don't expect myself to betray how I feel love to offer it as some other-selves think I should be offering it. This would most certainly be completely depolarizing and make me much more without love than with love.
I also do not deny Ra explanations, I mainly try to see what they hint toward instead of dwelling into an image even Ra knows to be extremely insuffisient to describe what it seeks to hint toward. If you want to blind yourself to the fact that polarity has been included probably in close to each of my posts within this thread, feel free to.
(06-03-2016, 01:57 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: Any thoughts on any of the other elements I've tried to introduce into the conversation? What do you make of the genie? How do you feel about the word compassion?
I'll come back later upon this, how I feel about compassion is that you probably have compassion for things I have none just as I probably have compassion for other things you have none. Hence it is a relative emotion that is internalized differently by each based on one's experiences.
Our hearts simply have different focuses and care about different beings, and I don't think my love for this world falls behind your own.
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 06-03-2016
The reason I made a focus on wisdom is that to me a love that seeks not wisdom is a love that plunders, and while I get that there can be infinite of those who can be well with that and amass polarity, it does not mean I can. To me that would feel like plundering, it would feel like using others to experiment with love and amass polarity from it whatever unfolds.
Love is a power, an energy, and positive intent does not equate positive results.
You spoke a lot of STO green ray love, yet all I see is that you limit something of infinite pontential to be experienced and expressed into something finite. Denying that someone could polarize positively by acting otherwise than you perceive love and denying also that someone could depolarize by acting on how you perceive love.
The quotes I shared about Love from positive channelings are ones I believe give direction to what can be crystalized within the green ray. You even mocked words that were not even my own, but were instead an advice given by positive entities to us about the kind of Love we should be seeking. So while I can see beauty in desiring to crystalize one's heart into a channel unto a teenager's feeling, I end up wondering why there is resistance toward the idea of crystalizing the heart into a channel upon a higher vibration of Love.