Quote:Not sure you really understand my point. Don't you have crystals anyway? You look at those and feel sorry that you are partaking in the product of plunder or see that they are a portion of the earth that was meant and sought to be spread?

Quote:The clock has struck the hour within one cycle. Humanity is not ready in it's choice yet is deprived of it's choice by higher density beings who do not desire to see further cycles happen for their own reasons. As long as there is a call that can justify their presence, they will do as they will while disregarding the vast majority of the inhabitants of this world. To me this quite heavily feels like plundering.

The cycles are cycles, they are made to be allowed to repeat as much as needed. But sure, these beings want to move on in their own cycle and as long as they feel loving about themselves and get to increase their own polarity, all is well and it cannot be called plundering

Quote:This is like in any portion of evolution within this Octave, they answer what justifies their own desires. You can trust me that I do not find their ways to be nearly as loving as they are presented to be.

Quote:Reaching is not an alien concept to myself, just something I inherently don't have a need for.

I rather know what I am doing than mindlessly reach without much of a care for the consequences, while blinding myself to the own selfishness and hypocrisy of what I do. I think you seem to miss that what you can consider higher ways of love, to me may feel deeply as being without love. Just as you seem to feel that way about my own ways.

What Carla did or could've done matters not, if she had went into a negative time/space she would have come to love that she did and wish it to not have happened differently. That was my point.

Quote:More than saying I've been using the transformation of the mind as I please, which I am well aware of, I think I have mainly been trying to explain to you that you are using the transformation of the mind as you please while trying to blind yourself to that fact. Just as the way Ra has described using it is also but a whim. The archetype is more than what use you can make of it, it is what allows it to be used. You plunder nothing as long as you don't feel like you aren't plundering a thing, but like you disagree with what I can consider plundering to be, I also disagree with what you consider plundering to be and probably would find many things in your way of loving that I would consider myself to be plundering if I did.

Quote:You so often tell me that I seek to justify myself but what I see is that by denying the relative aspect of it, you justify your own self and ways. What I mean by not betraying myself is exactly what you have expressed about that you would never agree to eat meat even if it meant offering a green-ray STO service. You can only offer love as you can feel it and I don't expect myself to betray how I feel love to offer it as some other-selves think I should be offering it. This would most certainly be completely depolarizing and make me much more without love than with love.

Quote:I also do not deny Ra explanations, I mainly try to see what they hint toward instead of dwelling into an image even Ra knows to be extremely insuffisient to describe what it seeks to hint toward. If you want to blind yourself to the fact that polarity has been included probably in close to each of my posts within this thread, feel free to.

Quote:I'll come back later upon this, how I feel about compassion is that you probably have compassion for things I have none just as I probably have compassion for other things you have none. Hence it is a relative emotion that is internalized differently by each based on one's experiences.

Our hearts simply have different focuses and care about different beings, and I don't think my love for this world falls behind your own.

Quote:The reason I made a focus on wisdom is that to me a love that seeks not wisdom is a love that plunders, and while I get that there can be infinite of those who can be well with that and amass polarity, it does not mean I can. To me that would feel like plundering, it would feel like using others to experiment with love and amass polarity from it whatever unfolds.

Quote:You spoke a lot of STO green ray love, yet all I see is that you limit something of infinite pontential to be experienced and expressed into something finite. Denying that someone could polarize positively by acting otherwise than you perceive love and denying also that someone could depolarize by acting on how you perceive love.

Quote:The quotes I shared about Love from positive channelings are ones I believe give direction to what can be crystalized within the green ray. You even mocked words that were not even my own, but were instead an advice given by positive entities to us about the kind of Love we should be seeking. So while I can see beauty in desiring to crystalize one's heart into a channel unto a teenager's feeling, I end up wondering why there is resistance toward the idea of crystalizing the heart into a channel upon a higher vibration of Love.

(06-05-2016, 11:29 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: Yes, exactly my point. I don't have crystals because I see them as a source of income, I have crystals because I see them as useful tools and companions. In my analogy, the man was extracting oil for money and likely lacking compassion, but full of love.

com·pas·sion
noun
sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others.

(06-05-2016, 11:29 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: Okay, well, it seems to me like you are muddling the words that I was trying to use, and my point was to unmuddle them. This is the end of a major cycle. It's been 3x 25,000 years. The native earth peoples have been infringed upon by Yahweh, yes, and there's lots of weird stuff that other densities have done in the past of course, but we are a sub-logos so really it's the will of the Logos above us that gets overidden. These entities will still have time to learn and grow and you can go join them on their new planet to aid them further if you'd like (I'll see ya there . And again, many of them (not the earth natives but others) have already blown up their planets before and have come quite close to destroying this one again. This is not Gaia's will, so they will move to another planet and hopefully complete their cycles there (or not).

(06-05-2016, 11:29 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: Do you consider the will of the bacteria upon your teeth when you brush them? Are you plundering them? Or are you actually protecting your teeth from being plundered? I don't know, this is rhetorical, feel free to comment.  I just consider the microbes that we house, which are much more numerous than our own cells, as our "sub-logoi".

(06-05-2016, 11:29 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: Okay, so you disagree with Ra's intentions and thus subsequently my intentions. That's cool. I'm still going to learn about the archetypes within the system as Ra intended them, personally. I've found immense value here. This thread and discussion is predicated on the concept that we are here to learn catalyst, and that by being aware we can use catalyst to help us learn "faster" and therefore help others learn "faster". I too am personally indifferent at the speed of harvest, but the other voices I hear are begging for the transition to be complete, so if I have the drive and desire to aid in this, I feel as if I've awakened to quite a valuable degree, and I want to refine that even further.

(06-05-2016, 11:29 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I'm not missing your point about higher love, I'm trying to talk about the Transformation of the Mind which is about green-ray love. Yes, they are different. You are the one who seems unable to divorce these two concepts.

(06-05-2016, 11:29 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: It is possible to have different versions of plundering and courting but the point of this thread was to make an attempt to find common ground and not focus on difference necessarily. There is a huge point with the Transformation of the Mind that you must follow one path. You are telling me that I am doing it wrong because I'm not following both paths, or at least, that's my interpretation of how you are "using the Transformation of the Mind", when Ra says the Transformation can't be used until one principle governing use of the mind is released. I have to sacrifice certain ways of being of service to use the Transformation of the Mind, yes. That is my whole point.

(06-05-2016, 11:29 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: Again, my point is that there is always a better way to be of service, and that is what the card is helping cultivate. Yes, you can express green-ray love by eating meat, I wasn't denying that, but I've moved past that experience and eating meat to express green-ray love would be "moving backwards towards plunder" as I've moved past towards courting. I can give green-ray love to McDonald's burgers, in fact I often do "bless" fast-food joints and lots of places in an attempt to alleviate the energy. My point is that the card is about the consistent attempts to do better in service. In the analogy, a maiden would rebuke you for improper courting, but the prostitute still provides. That's why the process is protracted. And I'm not saying that your subconcious will punish you or anything, it's hinting to the fact that each maiden is different, and often what you think it needs is not what it thinks it needs, so you have to uncover the riddle. Wisdom doesn't solve this interaction in the microcosm.

(06-05-2016, 11:29 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I guess I feel, after reading the Ra material several times, that it is obvious to me that what Ra really wanted to communicate to Don was the archetypes. To Ra, this is the most undistorted way to teach people how to use their intuition to learn these things. Ra affectionately refrains "O Student" to Don, only when discussing the archetypes. This was Ra's real intent to communicate, IMO. It's lessons for third density schooling, the subtle balancing of catalyst and polarity. The lessons of dissolution and unity are later, but also still present in the archetypes. This one card that we have been discussing is about STO polarity.

(06-05-2016, 11:29 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I'm trying to cultivate compassion for everything, really. I'm not refusing to eat the hamburger because I don't have compassion for it. That would be like dumpster diving for dinner because I feel bad that all the food is going to waste. And some people do that and it's viable!! Kudos to them!! To me, wisdom is knowing which avenue of service is most fruitful in a situation. To me, serving by eating the burger is not my highest service in that moment. I understand your point is that everyone has a different "highest service" but my subsequent point is that the Transformation of the Mind is about letting go of ways that we serve to serve in more refined ways.

(06-05-2016, 11:29 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I personally think that your definition of wisdom is not entirely what Ra talks about when they describe wisdom. I think knowing that we know nothing is a big part of being a Fool.

(06-05-2016, 11:29 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I'm just being honest that to me, you seem to be complicating a subject so that you can distort what we are talking about for your own gains. I am trying to limit STO love to exclude the types of manipulation and exploitation that are inherent in the STS path, yes. The STO path does have STS involved but we're trying to delineate which actions and energetic movements fall under which polarity, i.e. radiation vs. absorption. Yes, there is an umbrella over both and all should be accepted, but third density is about making Choices, choices that bring us subtly ever closer to unity, and not further from it.

(06-05-2016, 11:29 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I've shared many, many more quotes about this type of love than just likening it to a "teenager's feeling" - though what makes a teenager unable to feel to its fullest? It seems to me you are still judging this "courting" concept through the lens of Hollywood teen movies and pop songs. I've already said that society has distorted this concept and it seems to me that you are distorting it further. Sure, I've referenced the emotionality of the teenager in passing as one tenet of this card. What do you think the image of the child means in the Transformation of the Spirit?

(06-05-2016, 11:29 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: You seem really angry with Ra (you've said it in so many words) and this whole concept seems to sit poorly with you. Honestly, I don't mind these discussions, but sometimes you get a little exasperated with me when I'm just trying to elucidate a concept through Ra's teachings that you have a disagreement with. You can say Ra disagrees with me too but I've yet to see many quotes from Ra in your posts, let alone discussion about any of the other archetypes or even this archetype in context. You shared some quotes about "The Big Love" from other channeled entities, which of course is also important, but I'm talking about the Transformation of the Mind, which is about green-ray love. If you want to share quotes back and forth about green-ray love, I'll do that all day and accept them as valid points in our conversation. I'm not "getting the bigger picture" because I'm literally trying to talk about 1/22 of the picture.

Quote:Yet you bought them from those who extracted them for money?

Quote:I'm not sure why you speak of Gaia's will, I highly doubt Gaia has a desired outcome toward this, while you seem to see a prostitute I see a mother that both freely gives and resist depending on what her children needs. If she is blown up then she lets it happen out of love and will reform again into something new, I don't see how further cycles mean the earth being blown up, I could see that happen as a counter-measure to the forced harvest.

I think Gaia would be fine harvesting in any direction, just as repeating cycles. Like I said those who want to see the harvest happen are external to it and also forcefully make it happen.

Quote:I agree our bodies are a world of their own. Each of us has the responsability of our inner world as we grow as co-creator just as mankind was given this place to grow as co-creator.

Quote:76.20 Questioner: What was the form of disease, and why did this exist at beginning third density?

Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, that which you speak of as disease is a functional portion of the body complex which offers the body complex the opportunity to cease viability. This is a desirable body complex function. The second portion of the answer has to do with second-density other-selves of a microscopic, as you would call it, size which have in some forms long existed and perform their service by aiding the physical body complex in its function of ceasing viability at the appropriate space/time.

Quote:I still think you can crystalize your heart into a channel unto those higher vibration of love.

Like I said I work on all my chakras and the heart is the one I've been working on most into by far.

Quote:I was not trying to make you follow both paths but expand what each path can be. I get how my examples seemed to

focused on doing what seem without love but the point was to find the ability to be able to perform them with love, or rather understanding that not everyone will find being loving in the same manner. My examples were not to always do them, they were more meant to say that if one finds a way to serve which one believes is always valid, then I don't see how it is all that different from plundering. My examples were meant to hint that even if an action is valid a 1000 times, the 1001th time can call for a different course of action because each moment has a different inherent underlying complexity but that to know this I believe requires to use the transformation of the mind, to be open that each moment is unique and although the mind perceives the same setting, the heart through the High Priestess can feel resistance on particular occasions toward doing the exact same deeds that are usually always well, and that to ignore this is somewhat to plunder in my view.

Quote:My example was somewhat abtract, if your High Priestess would call you to do that then there should be a reason for you to. You can turn the McDonald example into simply being called to purchase one particular piece of meat you are called to (reincarnation of a past pet... anything) and rather than eating it, hold it into your hands into meditation to help heal that one particular entity you were drawn to.

Again, this was not an absolute example. Can happen in myriads of ways, someone can offer you one on the street and tell youl it'll be thrown if you don't take it. Then you have to chose between letting it rot to waste and taking in as part of yourself and part of the karma with you. Then again the point is not that you need to do this, just that openness to see love being present in many ways open oneself toward being called to more opportunities to serve.

Quote: Surely but this does not deny that Ra probably had so much more to teach about each card than what was passed on and expressed this process of study to be highly individual if I remember well.

I never tried to make it not about the STO polarity. More that the way and path for me to find STO within myself can differ than what you found for yourself. I didn't resonate with courting but did more with the notion of plundering which is to be let go of, I may have seen it as more abstract than you did because I am aware there is no actual plundering ever taking place and that it is more of a matter of personal feelings.

Quote:Like I said above, this was more about one particular occasion you would feel highly called to do this (heart) and that your mind (intellectualizing) is your resistance toward it.

With how you are to make fruitful examples, I need the tables to be turned in a way which is much less intuitive. The point was still that you hear a call.

Quote:When Ra spoke of their own 3D experience, they said that from a standpoint of wisdom they had an overabundance of love, which caused two positive wanderers to walk the STS path upon their world as to offer an alternative to those who did not fit on this strictly compassion mindset. To me that means that higher positive intent found focus upon the negative because it was what their world required most. It was not as they intended, but I still think it is the purity of their initial intent that lead them to serve as they did.

Quote:About the fool, as I became more aware I started to perceive why I have been acting as I had up until now, the unconscious reasons to what I was doing. I saw some say that becoming aware for example is to let go of things like eating meat that only takes place because of being unaware, yet I think that becoming even more aware for those would be to become aware of the positive intent which set them to initially eat meat while wondering why it could have been seen as useful and valuable by the them which was most conscious.

Quote:12.28 Questioner: Are most of these from the fourth density? What density do they come from?

Ra: I am Ra. Few there are of fourth density. The largest number of Wanderers, as you call them, are of the sixth density. The desire to serve must be distorted towards a great deal of purity of mind and what you may call foolhardiness or bravery, depending upon your distortion complex judgment. The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom from which it had incarnated to aid the destruction.

Quote:While I get that I give tool of justification, I believe it is your duty (edit: fate, else it goes against my signature) to find justification to what others do, to allow yourself to see the underlying love in each and every of their action if you truly seek to find love within yourself. So while you can feel that you plunder in acting a certain way, I believe you will find more love within yourself by seeing that others do not truly ever plunder and that there is beauty in what they do always. Whatever we say, we speak of love and light and unity each time we speak of others.

Quote:Like I said in another thread, I believe each path is the shadow self/light self of the other path. As such STS is the hidden hypocrisy and selfishness of the STO path made apparent, just as STO is the hidden innocence and beauty of the STS path made apparent. None truly containing either any more than the other and I believe this does matter as I highly doubt your soul has an understanding of polarity at the level of 3D native and that to truly unveil yourself is to unveil that within yourself you most likely already are very aware of both polarities being a paradox and that you perhaps have already solved within yourself from before incarnating. And if this is so, then you can extend much further and deeper what it can mean for yourself to be loving in greater ways.

Quote:I meant more that there is a point those quotes tells us to not seek love in how it has been romantizied by our poets and such.

By a child you mean the first one of the 3 figures that represent an elevation?

Quote:As I see things I have been working from the same quotes you did with different interpretations. l really don't know either why you feel like reducing courting/plundering to a polarized (positive/negative) relationship takes away everything the image seeks to teach.

Quote:If I scratch a dog belly I don't think to myself that I am courting the dog... anyway...

Since courting seemed to be romanticized of a word, I thought the quotes I shared could be helpful in explaining why I think this word is not the best word to describe a loving focus upon others and interactions with them.

(06-07-2016, 07:06 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:

Quote:Yet you bought them from those who extracted them for money?

Indeed. And I still drive a car that requires gasoline, which is rarely extracted with "compassion". As I've mentioned, it's a series of doing better than before. I am frugal with gasoline, instead of driving a hummer, I drive a Kia that gets 30+ MPH. And you're right, I probably should be more aware when I purchase stones. Luckily, I live somewhere where I can purchase "locally harvested" minerals! That's a good one to start working towards - buying from the small-time miners who do it out of love for having a "job" in nature where they do understand the courtship dance involved, and not just to make a quick buck. Thanks for helping me with that one.

(06-07-2016, 07:06 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:

Quote:I'm not sure why you speak of Gaia's will, I highly doubt Gaia has a desired outcome toward this, while you seem to see a prostitute I see a mother that both freely gives and resist depending on what her children needs. If she is blown up then she lets it happen out of love and will reform again into something new, I don't see how further cycles mean the earth being blown up, I could see that happen as a counter-measure to the forced harvest.

I think Gaia would be fine harvesting in any direction, just as repeating cycles. Like I said those who want to see the harvest happen are external to it and also forcefully make it happen.

I'm just quoting other channeled materials, including Ra, which state that Gaia is moving into 4D+. I'm assuming this is her will. I speak of it because it does matter. Again, Carla could have harvested 6D negative and learned all those lessons, just as Gaia could let herself be blown up. You keep using the word prostitute as if it were a dirty word, and I assure you that I do not think lowly of anything that prostitutes itself, which is one of your problems with this analogy. It isn't about judging the prostitute, it's about attempting to refrain from the act of plunder - and Gaia being plundered to disintegration would indeed make her the prostitute in the analogy, and us humans receiving that which is "without great virtue".

What do you take of the word "virtue" as Ra describes it in the archetype?

(06-07-2016, 07:06 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:

Quote:I agree our bodies are a world of their own. Each of us has the responsability of our inner world as we grow as co-creator just as mankind was given this place to grow as co-creator.

Though you scoff at the idea of considering Gaia's will? I'm almost certain that the cells in my "world", including those that are independent lifeforms, consider my will.

(06-07-2016, 07:06 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:

Quote:I still think you can crystalize your heart into a channel unto those higher vibration of love.

Like I said I work on all my chakras and the heart is the one I've been working on most into by far.

That's certainly possible, but this card is especially, specifically, about the green-ray. Not higher, balanced love, but polarized love.

(06-07-2016, 07:06 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:

Quote:I was not trying to make you follow both paths but expand what each path can be. I get how my examples seemed to

focused on doing what seem without love but the point was to find the ability to be able to perform them with love, or rather understanding that not everyone will find being loving in the same manner. My examples were not to always do them, they were more meant to say that if one finds a way to serve which one believes is always valid, then I don't see how it is all that different from plundering. My examples were meant to hint that even if an action is valid a 1000 times, the 1001th time can call for a different course of action because each moment has a different inherent underlying complexity but that to know this I believe requires to use the transformation of the mind, to be open that each moment is unique and although the mind perceives the same setting, the heart through the High Priestess can feel resistance on particular occasions toward doing the exact same deeds that are usually always well, and that to ignore this is somewhat to plunder in my view.

That's why we disagree. In my analogy, the prostitute is calling to you - her face is painted, her leg is sticking out, she beckons like a siren to a sailor. This is what Ra means when he says "Both the deep mind and the virginal mind await the reaching" - you must LET GO of one of the hands of the priestess - yes, indeed, ignore her wishes. This can be your interpretation of "plunder" but this is my interpretation of the Lovers card per Ra. We are in disagreement.

(06-07-2016, 07:06 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:

Quote:My example was somewhat abtract, if your High Priestess would call you to do that then there should be a reason for you to. You can turn the McDonald example into simply being called to purchase one particular piece of meat you are called to (reincarnation of a past pet... anything) and rather than eating it, hold it into your hands into meditation to help heal that one particular entity you were drawn to.

Again, this was not an absolute example. Can happen in myriads of ways, someone can offer you one on the street and tell youl it'll be thrown if you don't take it. Then you have to chose between letting it rot to waste and taking in as part of yourself and part of the karma with you. Then again the point is not that you need to do this, just that openness to see love being present in many ways open oneself toward being called to more opportunities to serve.

Again, refer to my previous analogy and quote from Ra. The prostitute is still asking for service. You must let her hand go for the transformation to occur.

(06-07-2016, 07:06 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:

Quote: Surely but this does not deny that Ra probably had so much more to teach about each card than what was passed on and expressed this process of study to be highly individual if I remember well.

I never tried to make it not about the STO polarity. More that the way and path for me to find STO within myself can differ than what you found for yourself. I didn't resonate with courting but did more with the notion of plundering which is to be let go of, I may have seen it as more abstract than you did because I am aware there is no actual plundering ever taking place and that it is more of a matter of personal feelings.

What makes you think that I'm being 100% literal? I've discussed the ways that I myself, "plunder". I can think of others. Sometimes, I meditate for "utility", which frustrates me on both ends. I also smoke much more marijuana than I would be if I were "courting" it. These are pretty big "infractions" in my book and I'm exploring ways to correct them. It's your own personal problem with the idea that you could possibly be plundering something, it seems, as you've yet to admit that you think you take advantage of anything's resource. Again, the prostitute WANTS to be "plundered", or taken advantage of for her resources - though, there is still an energy exchange. I am not being literal. As you've said, nothing is actually being -plundered-, it is just give-and-take - this is the Transformation of the MIND, an internal process that is indeed wholly personal. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and something has to be abandoned.

(06-07-2016, 07:06 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:

Quote:Like I said above, this was more about one particular occasion you would feel highly called to do this (heart) and that your mind (intellectualizing) is your resistance toward it.

With how you are to make fruitful examples, I need the tables to be turned in a way which is much less intuitive. The point was still that you hear a call.

And again, the point is that the prostitute calls as well, you must let her go, because it is the compassionate thing to do.

(06-07-2016, 07:06 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:

Quote:When Ra spoke of their own 3D experience, they said that from a standpoint of wisdom they had an overabundance of love, which caused two positive wanderers to walk the STS path upon their world as to offer an alternative to those who did not fit on this strictly compassion mindset. To me that means that higher positive intent found focus upon the negative because it was what their world required most. It was not as they intended, but I still think it is the purity of their initial intent that lead them to serve as they did.

And, Ra had a relatively successful third density experience in spite of it all - they just came and muddled with ours in their eagerness to serve. Are you mad at them? Do you wish they hadn't?

(06-07-2016, 07:06 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:

Quote:About the fool, as I became more aware I started to perceive why I have been acting as I had up until now, the unconscious reasons to what I was doing. I saw some say that becoming aware for example is to let go of things like eating meat that only takes place because of being unaware, yet I think that becoming even more aware for those would be to become aware of the positive intent which set them to initially eat meat while wondering why it could have been seen as useful and valuable by the them which was most conscious.

Okay, yes, but what you are describing are what I would call 4th/5th density lessons, not 3rd/4th. The Fool isn't here to get wiser, the Fool is here to fall in love. Sorry, that's just the way it is. I mean, obviously you still have freedom to do what you please within all realms in the infinite creation, but the archetypical cycle is about the 3rd density experience of opening/denying the heart chakra - the Fool being Foolish and falling in love. Wanderers being foolish to come help aid the planet.

(06-07-2016, 07:06 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:

Quote:12.28 Questioner: Are most of these from the fourth density? What density do they come from?

Ra: I am Ra. Few there are of fourth density. The largest number of Wanderers, as you call them, are of the sixth density. The desire to serve must be distorted towards a great deal of purity of mind and what you may call foolhardiness or bravery, depending upon your distortion complex judgment. The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom from which it had incarnated to aid the destruction.

Quote:While I get that I give tool of justification, I believe it is your duty (edit: fate, else it goes against my signature) to find justification to what others do, to allow yourself to see the underlying love in each and every of their action if you truly seek to find love within yourself. So while you can feel that you plunder in acting a certain way, I believe you will find more love within yourself by seeing that others do not truly ever plunder and that there is beauty in what they do always. Whatever we say, we speak of love and light and unity each time we speak of others.

Yes, again you speak of the "higher love" where no one is plundered because all wills are known. But in 3rd density, with the veil, and confusion, this isn't as easy as you make it sound. Wisdom doesn't help prevent plunder, compassion does.

(06-07-2016, 07:06 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:

Quote:Like I said in another thread, I believe each path is the shadow self/light self of the other path. As such STS is the hidden hypocrisy and selfishness of the STO path made apparent, just as STO is the hidden innocence and beauty of the STS path made apparent. None truly containing either any more than the other and I believe this does matter as I highly doubt your soul has an understanding of polarity at the level of 3D native and that to truly unveil yourself is to unveil that within yourself you most likely already are very aware of both polarities being a paradox and that you perhaps have already solved within yourself from before incarnating. And if this is so, then you can extend much further and deeper what it can mean for yourself to be loving in greater ways.

Sigh.... of course I understand these things, Minya. I've told you this. I'm not trying to talk about the greater love and the resolution of the paradox here in this thread, I'm talking about the archetype 6. I understand that there is no judgement, there is no real "bad", BUT, Ra gave us these tools to refine our consciousness with polarity in the context of 3rd density incarnation. You keep scoffing as if this is a meaningless exercise but I assure you the the whole of the archetypes are not a meaningless exercise to be learned nor are they yours to be rewritten on a whim. You are absolutely free to experience your own expression, but to act as if you are above the archetypical system of the Logos as offered by Ra seems quite lofty.

I have been doing nothing but attempt to discuss how we can learn to be more loving in greater ways, through the transformation of the mind. I do think that compassion and the STO path does lead to a higher/more balanced love but this is not the discussion I am attempting to engage in at this moment. It's about polarity.

(06-07-2016, 07:06 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:

Quote:I meant more that there is a point those quotes tells us to not seek love in how it has been romantizied by our poets and such.

By a child you mean the first one of the 3 figures that represent an elevation?

I don't think it was saying not to seek that love, but that there was a "greater love", the love you are talking about, the second distortion, the creative principle of Love. This is the balanced, non-judging, open, infinite love you are talking about, but again, I'm trying to talk about a slightly lesser but still applicable love, that of the green-ray.

That's an interesting way to describe it. I always saw the figures responding to the call of the trumpeter, and the child as the final one to emerge from the sarcophagus.

(06-07-2016, 07:06 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:

Quote:As I see things I have been working from the same quotes you did with different interpretations. l really don't know either why you feel like reducing courting/plundering to a polarized (positive/negative) relationship takes away everything the image seeks to teach.

It's not reducing it to polarity that I have a problem with in your interpretation, it's the fact that you deny that you must sacrifice certain actions for a transformation to occur, and you are telling me that BECAUSE I sacrifice actions I'm avoiding the transformation. You think the proper course to using the transformation is to give in to every whim of the High Priestess. I'm saying that the archetype says that you have to discern certain whims to stop feeding in to.

I also do not think you have taken many of the Ra quotes on this archetype into consideration, especially since you keep arguing with these words as if they were mine when they are not. I assure you, semantics mean much less to me than the average verbose forum poster. I am able to interchange other analogies/words, but they have to retain their meaning in the context of the original analogy. I'm not the one who can't work with Ra's analogy, so it's not up to me to rewrite the book (though I'm apparently trying).

It is also a bit frustrating to me when I ask you to discuss other concepts in the card to help elucidate the differences in our views and you say things like "I'll come back to that later." - Ra says the first step to learning the archetypes is to look at the symbols and decide what they mean to you, personally. You reject the symbols, so how have you practiced this study?

Where in this card does the symbolism say "This card isn't about polarity, it's about higher love" - a few have said the closed eyes of the male, but the fact is, eyes closed or not, the male cannot -move- without releasing a hand. I'm really curious to know what you think the triangles mean in the context of seeking unpolarized love, and the bound arms.

The "higher love" that you are speaking of, IMO, is represented by the Significator of the Spirit - there, there is one male and one female, holding hands, eyes open, looking at each other, with the sun behind them. No crossed arms, in fact, no desire to go anywhere but stay in their circle, gazing at each other. I think this is the card you are talking about/resonating with.

(06-07-2016, 07:06 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:

Quote:If I scratch a dog belly I don't think to myself that I am courting the dog... anyway...

Since courting seemed to be romanticized of a word, I thought the quotes I shared could be helpful in explaining why I think this word is not the best word to describe a loving focus upon others and interactions with them.

Here I would like to again note that it is not I that has extrapolated the concept of courting to mean "a means to an end that is literal sex". Of course you aren't trying to have sex with the dog, but you are showing it affection, compassion, adoration etc. These other words that I was using that you also seemed to have a problem with in associating with this card.

Minya Wrote:I think the channelings make it clear that if there was no wanderer incarnating, then the Gaia would not shift into 4D and the harvest would miss and the cycle repeat.

Quote:Questioner: The way I understand the process of evolution of a planetary population is that a population has a certain amount of time to progress. This is generally divided into three 25,000-year cycles. At the end of 75,000 years the planet progresses itself. What caused this situation to come about… preciseness of the years, 25,000 years, etc.? What set this up to begin with?

Ra: I am Ra. Visualize, if you will, the particular energy which, outward flowing and inward coagulating, formed the tiny realm of the creation governed by your Council of Saturn. Continue seeing the rhythm of this process. The living flow creates a rhythm which is as inevitable as one of your timepieces. Each of your planetary entities began the first cycle when the energy nexus was able in that environment to support such mind/body experiences. Thus, each of your planetary entities is on a different cyclical schedule as you might call it. The timing of these cycles is a measurement equal to a portion of intelligent energy.

This intelligent energy offers a type of clock. The cycles move as precisely as a clock strikes your hour. Thus, the gateway from intelligent energy to intelligent infinity opens regardless of circumstance on the striking of the hour.

Yinya Wrote:

Minya Wrote:I think the channelings make it clear that if there was no wanderer incarnating, then the Gaia would not shift into 4D and the harvest would miss and the cycle repeat.

This is not my understanding. I think Ra makes it quite clear that wanderers are incarnating because they are responding to a call. Our sphere is moving into 4D and the 3D cycle is ending irrespective of circumstances. Cycle length is fixed.

Quote:Questioner: The way I understand the process of evolution of a planetary population is that a population has a certain amount of time to progress. This is generally divided into three 25,000-year cycles. At the end of 75,000 years the planet progresses itself. What caused this situation to come about… preciseness of the years, 25,000 years, etc.? What set this up to begin with?

Ra: I am Ra. Visualize, if you will, the particular energy which, outward flowing and inward coagulating, formed the tiny realm of the creation governed by your Council of Saturn. Continue seeing the rhythm of this process. The living flow creates a rhythm which is as inevitable as one of your timepieces. Each of your planetary entities began the first cycle when the energy nexus was able in that environment to support such mind/body experiences. Thus, each of your planetary entities is on a different cyclical schedule as you might call it. The timing of these cycles is a measurement equal to a portion of intelligent energy.

This intelligent energy offers a type of clock. The cycles move as precisely as a clock strikes your hour. Thus, the gateway from intelligent energy to intelligent infinity opens regardless of circumstance on the striking of the hour.

Minya Wrote:I think I interpret this quote differently, this to me means the nexus point into which the planet can shift is fixed, but does not imply that the cycle cannot repeat as there should be no default outcome, and so that the clock would simply strike the hour again when the cycle completes again.

Minya Wrote:Else it'd be like the major cycle's purpose is to offer time to make the choice to polarize toward the negative, if not it goes with the default choice of positive. I think a shift toward the upper cycle to hapoen requires a strong enough leaning one way or another at the time the clock strikes the hour so that the planet locks into a higher vibration. Ra didn't say it's a nexus point

YinYa Wrote:

Minya Wrote:I think I interpret this quote differently, this to me means the nexus point into which the planet can shift is fixed, but does not imply that the cycle cannot repeat as there should be no default outcome, and so that the clock would simply strike the hour again when the cycle completes again.

It's a little difficult to try and untangle what you said here, but I feel this is another example where you complicate things which are not complicated, as I mentioned earlier in this thread. There isn't another way to interpret what Ra has said, the cycle length is fixed, when the cycle ends, this planet will be 4D, and those not graduating to 4D will repeat 3D elsewhere. You also didn't say it's your own personal interpretation, you said "the channelings make it clear", which simply isn't so. That's why it's frustrating to follow this thread, because you state things which isn't so. Ra didn't say it's a nexus point where the planet can shift, they said it's a nexus point where the planet will shift. There is not another 75 000 year 3rd density cycle on this planet, there is only one.

YinYa Wrote:

Minya Wrote:Else it'd be like the major cycle's purpose is to offer time to make the choice to polarize toward the negative, if not it goes with the default choice of positive. I think a shift toward the upper cycle to hapoen requires a strong enough leaning one way or another at the time the clock strikes the hour so that the planet locks into a higher vibration. Ra didn't say it's a nexus point

I'm sorry, this statement is almost as confusing and ambiguous as the one above I attempted to respond to. It makes no sense whatsoever. You state many things as fact which isn't what Ra said, like saying earlier that the purpose for 3D is self awareness, it isn't, 3D is the density of choice. Self awareness is a requirement for 2D harvest to 3D.

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. The path of our learning is graven in the present moment. There is no history, as we understand your concept. Picture, if you will, a circle of being. We know the alpha and omega as infinite intelligence. The circle never ceases. It is present. The densities we have traversed at various points in the circle correspond to the characteristics of cycles: first, the cycle of awareness; second, the cycle of growth; third, the cycle of self-awareness; fourth, the cycle of love or understanding; fifth, the cycle of light or wisdom; sixth, the cycle of light/love, love/light, or unity; seventh, the gateway cycle; eighth, the octave which moves into a mystery we do not plumb.

YinYa Wrote:I didn't read through your entire post, but it becomes a bit of a pointless discussion when you change things Ra said, or state things as factual which isn't so, when this forum is dedicated to the teachings of Ra...

Quote:I can provide more help. You smoke weed? Well you could vaporize it instead of smoking it which would allow chemicals that vaporize at a lower temperatures to not be destroyed by the flame and provide a different high. Imo, the vaporizer ends up paying for itself because in my case it really made me lower my consumption a whole lot, guess that would depend on the kind you get though.

...


It really made me reduce my consumption a whole lot because you get really high with little and can vape on not much for quite a while. Got one at same time I stopped cigarettes and desired to cut smoke altogether since I was stopping them.

Quote:I think you miss that I haven't been trying to tell you that you should plunder anything but that you can still meddle with what you consider prostitutes. They probably need more love than a virginal maiden that has never been wronged.

Quote:My example still wasn't about plundering but offering what is required by other-self in a loving way. And again, can you court a prostitute?

Quote:Just like STS entities, they need to use others to advance their own evolution.

More than Ra, it is the brothers and sisters of sorrow that I feel like conquer worlds and worlds for selfish reasons while using selected others as a pretext to do so. That they do this to learn lessons they constantly avoid learning and have no desire to learn, they want to dwell in a positive intent they avoid questioning further to not shake the light they dwell within. I do think past a certain point, this becomes plundering because there is a lack of desire to better their ways of service and move forward.

I do find the purity of their intent quite beautiful, but their unwillingness to learn and desire their to blind themselves to the inherent selfishness of what they do however many times they repeat it again and again, does give me mixed feelings. I still believe most of those of Ra don't do this.

Quote:Like I said, we can come here for myriads of reasons. I am quite fond of 3D and it's veil.

Quote:Becoming aware of these things does have an impact on how you will feel about things and in turn on your polarity. If you peel off your veil you can't bound yourself to remain as you were before and here again there is an act of letting you as you've been saying yourself. To open yourself to higher ways known as known to your soul, you need to acknowledge that within yourself you know better and must make a choice to open yourself to this inner experience which contains so much more than a single lifetime, you need to let go of your ways of service to perceive that you have a greater potential within yourself and that unwillingness to connect to this potential that you hold and which is within your reach, also can be considered plundering, because you won't seek to offer the best you can offer and make a choice to dwell in a lesser state than you can reach.

I don't think any of this is unrelated to the archetype. Just like you say you can move on to ways that are without plunder, this doesn't mean that it stops there on the first basic level and that you can't do more and more. Like I said there are degrees of awareness which allow you to perceive much more than your conscious mind can perceive, and this awareness can make you act differently than you used to if you want to remain as loving and with the same positive intent in what you do.

I don't disagree with what you've been saying, what I disagree with is that what I've been saying is unrelated to it.

Quote:While I think the creator basically is an eternal child, since the card is about transformation should not the movement reflect the transformation of one? I see it as symbolizing growth.

Quote:I'm not talking about sex... I'm not courting the dog because I am not seeking anything from it but am simply sharing a moment with it. I already said to me courting implies trying to win something.

Quote:83.12 Questioner: Then you say that there are no cases where those who are service-to-others oriented are using in any way techniques of enslavement that have grown as a result of the evolution of our social structures? Is this what you mean?

Ra: I am Ra. It was our understanding that your query concerned conditions before the veiling. There was no unconscious slavery, as you call this condition, at that period. At the present space/time the condition of well-meant and unintentional slavery are so numerous that it beggars our ability to enumerate them.

Quote:Ra: To begin to master the concept of mental discipline it is necessary to examine the self. The polarity of your dimension must be internalized. Where you find patience within your mind you must consciously find the corresponding impatience and vice versa. Each thought that a being has, has in its turn an antithesis. The disciplines of the mind involve, first of all, identifying both those things of which you approve and those things of which you disapprove within yourself, and then balancing each and every positive and negative charge with its equal. The mind contains all things. Therefore, you must discover this completeness within yourself.

(06-09-2016, 10:10 AM)Minyatur Wrote: ...
My point about polarity is that there is a choice mankind has to make about direction this planet will shift toward  and that this choice is infringed upon by positive wanderers that through incarnating forcefully highten the planet's vibration toward the positive. So while there is purpose to this, it doesn't change the fact that they strip mankind of making it's own choice.
...

Minya Wrote:I don't think Ra's quote goes against what I said. They say it will shift for the same reason some positive channelings seem overly happy to state that the harvest is set to happen as things are going. This does not mean that it could not skip the nexus point and need to repeat the cycle.

Minya Wrote:I think the channelings make it clear that if there was no wanderer incarnating, then the Gaia would not shift into 4D and the harvest would miss and the cycle repeat.

Minya Wrote:Took me a few seconds to find a quote where Ra called the third cycle the one of self-awareness. So seems that in your own example of saying I say things Ra did not say, you did so yourself and said something unlike Ra's teachings to negate something I said which was in accordance.

Minya Wrote:I extrapoliate from things more than change anything.

Quote:6.16 Questioner: What is the position of this planet with respect to progression of the cycle at this time?

Ra: I am Ra. This sphere is at this time in fourth-dimension vibration. Its material is quite confused due to the society memory complexes embedded in its consciousness. It has not made an easy transition to the vibrations which beckon. Therefore, it will be fetched with some inconvenience.

Quote:6.13 Questioner: Thanks. Is all of the Earth’s population then, human population of the earth, are all of them originally from Maldek?

Ra: I am Ra. This is a new line of questioning, and deserves a place of its own. The ones who were harvested to your sphere from the sphere known before its dissolution as other names, but to your peoples as Maldek, incarnated, many within your Earth’s surface rather than upon it. The population of your planet contains many various groups harvested from other second-dimension and cycled third-dimension spheres. You are not all one race or background of beginning. The experience you share is unique to this time/space continuum.

(06-09-2016, 11:03 AM)YinYang Wrote:

Minya Wrote:I think the channelings make it clear that if there was no wanderer incarnating, then the Gaia would not shift into 4D and the harvest would miss and the cycle repeat.

This is why I say you change things Ra has said, because this statement or understanding of yours is nowhere in the Ra material, it's your own invention. Then when I give you the Ra excerpt to point out your error, you answer in the most confusing and ambiguous way, that it actually makes no sense. Not only do you change a very basic understanding about the progression of the densities, you preamble it with "the channelings make it clear"...

(06-09-2016, 11:34 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: First of all, free will and the Gaia quarantine are a very odd situation - firstly, Ra says that within our time/space continuum, having the many planetary groups finishing their cycles here on Earth is unique, which is why the vibrations are so difficult. Secondly, it was Yahweh who many years ago first infringed upon the third density population of Gaia when the population of Mars decided to finish its cycle here. So, Gaia has already been "infringed" by a group who had previous destroyed their planet, and a lot of this "quarantine" nonsense is the fallout from those actions.

This is what Ra says about the density shift and Gaia's role:

Quote:6.16 Questioner: What is the position of this planet with respect to progression of the cycle at this time?

Ra: I am Ra. This sphere is at this time in fourth-dimension vibration. Its material is quite confused due to the society memory complexes embedded in its consciousness. It has not made an easy transition to the vibrations which beckon. Therefore, it will be fetched with some inconvenience.

The planet has already shifted into 4th density, it is the lag of the confusion of our fragmented social memory complexes from many different planetary entities that make the transition difficult. Wanderers have come to help smooth those energies.

Quote:6.13 Questioner: Thanks. Is all of the Earth’s population then, human population of the earth, are all of them originally from Maldek?

Ra: I am Ra. This is a new line of questioning, and deserves a place of its own. The ones who were harvested to your sphere from the sphere known before its dissolution as other names, but to your peoples as Maldek, incarnated, many within your Earth’s surface rather than upon it. The population of your planet contains many various groups harvested from other second-dimension and cycled third-dimension spheres. You are not all one race or background of beginning. The experience you share is unique to this time/space continuum.

Earth's free will as a planetary entity is quite complicated, and I can't begin to understand it, except that Ra says its vibrations are already 4th density, and it's the mind complexes of its people who are keeping it trapped in 3rd.

Minya Wrote:I said channelings because I was not reffering to the Ra material but other things I often see get posted that talks about the harvest.

What I said about the quote you gave is that I don't think it contradicts what I said and that the stiking hour represents that the cycles has fixed extremes and not that it cannot repeat and strike the hour again.  Just that it is the moment that will matter and yeah as of now I also don't think this planet will fail to harvest STO unless the opposite camp does something extreme to prevent it and shake this planet's entire vibration.

If we take the example of Mars, which seem to have been in an earlier cycle to this one, blowing up their atmosphere did seem to prevent any transition toward 4D from happening. Bit extreme but shows the inhabitants of the world do have an impact and are not external to it.

Ra Wrote:Questioner: The way I understand the process of evolution of a planetary population is that a population has a certain amount of time to progress. This is generally divided into three 25,000-year cycles. At the end of 75,000 years the planet progresses itself. What caused this situation to come about… preciseness of the years, 25,000 years, etc.? What set this up to begin with?

Ra: I am Ra. Visualize, if you will, the particular energy which, outward flowing and inward coagulating, formed the tiny realm of the creation governed by your Council of Saturn. Continue seeing the rhythm of this process. The living flow creates a rhythm which is as inevitable as one of your timepieces. Each of your planetary entities began the first cycle when the energy nexus was able in that environment to support such mind/body experiences. Thus, each of your planetary entities is on a different cyclical schedule as you might call it. The timing of these cycles is a measurement equal to a portion of intelligent energy.

This intelligent energy offers a type of clock. The cycles move as precisely as a clock strikes your hour. Thus, the gateway from intelligent energy to intelligent infinity opens regardless of circumstance on the striking of the hour.

Minya Wrote:I think the channelings make it clear that if there was no wanderer incarnating, then the Gaia would not shift into 4D and the harvest would miss and the cycle repeat.

Quote:Yeah with just a bit of an open field it is easy to sense this planet's vibration is above 3D. I still don't think this being the case is unrelated to what I have been talking about.

I agree with what you said about those of Yahweh but I still don't think to even things or balance things has been the focus.

Quote:9.9 Questioner: The guardians obviously were acting with an understanding of the Law of One in doing this. Can you explain the application of the Law of One in this process?

Ra: I am Ra. The Law of One was named by these guardians as the bringing of the wisdom of the guardians in contact with the entities from the Red Planet, thus melding the social memory complex of the guardian race and the Red Planet race. It, however, took an increasing amount of distortion into the application of the Law of One from the viewpoint of other guardians and it is from this beginning action that the quarantine of this planet was instituted, for it was felt that the free will of those of the Red Planet had been abridged.

(06-09-2016, 05:43 PM)Patrick Wrote: I see this environment as a video game where we cranked up the difficulty level to the absolute maximum.  Increasing all aspects that promotes the illusion of separation to their maximum expressions, like our social conditioning, our opposable thumbs and like the veil itself.  Just to see if in such conditions the Creator would still find itself.  In such an environment, we have to be completely foolish to have faith in Oneness.  Still we find ways and the Creator is in ecstasy when we do.  This experience would not be possible without the help of the negative part of the Creator.

No matter how long and how many times we repeat 3d, we all win in time.

We find it is worth it to continue trying because the worth to the Self on winning the game at this particular difficulty level is absolute as well.

So all is well really !
 

(06-09-2016, 05:28 PM)Minyatur Wrote: I think I will bow out of this thread as we never come to find mutual understanding.

I will end this with a quick example of this, what I said about vaping marijuana was about that smoking using a flame will destroy parts of the chemical components the plant has to offer. So while I agree that I could do better by growing it myself and trimming it myself, I wrote that only because I thought it'd mean something to you given what was said about DMT in the ayahuasca thread and how you think the chemicals of a plant should be courted.  I did not start vaping for this reason and simply thought it was neat that it allows to get more from the plant which usually is wasted, and that this was worth sharing in this context.

So the intent of my message was not found in the response to it despite that it did relate fully to the thread because I failed at giving value to what I was trying to share. Guess I got a lot of work to do on communication. Been told I express my ideas much better irl, a gemimi needs to move his hands through the air while talking else it ruins it..

Quote:8.6 Questioner: How did the United States learn of the technology to build these land [inaudible]?

Ra: I am Ra. There was a mind/body/spirit complex known to your people by the vibratory sound complex, Nikola. This entity departed the illusion and the papers containing the necessary understandings were taken by mind/body/spirit complexes serving your security of national divisional complex. Thus your people became privy to the basic technology. In the case of those mind/body/spirit complexes which you call Russians, the technology was given from one of the Confederation in an attempt, approximately twenty-seven of your years ago, to share information and bring about peace among your peoples. The entities giving this information were in error, but we did many things at the end of this cycle in attempts to aid your harvest from which we learned the folly of certain types of aid. That is a contributing factor to our more cautious approach at this date, even as the need is power upon power greater, and your people’s call is greater and greater.

Quote:Questioner: I was concerned about the amount of physical distortions, disease, and that sort of thing in third-density negative just before harvest and in fourth-density negative just after harvest or in transition. What are the conditions of the physical problems, disease, etc., at late third-density negative?

Ra: I am Ra. Each planetary experience is unique. The problems, shall we say, of bellicose actions are more likely to be of pressing concern to late third-density negative entities than the earth’s reactions to negativity of the planetary mind, for it is often by such warlike attitudes on a global scale that the necessary negative polarization is achieved.

As fourth density occurs there is a new planet and new physical vehicle system gradually expressing itself and the parameters of bellicose actions become those of thought rather than manifested weapons.

(06-09-2016, 07:19 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I have to admit that I had a thought that I maybe misinterpreted your marijuana comments, because here in Colorado, people who vape mostly vape concentrates. So I was thinking about it in the form of vaping concentrates and not flower, as I don't know anyone at the moment who vapes flower (except you?)

I see your point but my point was towards the concentrates spectrum. I have vaped extracted THC oil, but again, it really isn't my intent to get higher on less, but to manage my consumption period. I'm not sure that if I switched to vaping, I would feel better about how I was courting the plant. Less waste makes sense.