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RE: STS entities and Wealth - Ohr Ein Sof - 08-07-2021
(08-07-2021, 05:46 PM)LeiwoUnion Wrote: This is almost too funny.
It is and it isn't; on the surface it has its comic relief but.....then there is the under current of things. BTW, I am not disagreeing with you here at all.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Jade - 08-07-2021
I've stated my opinion before and I'll state it again: when the moderators, who have basically one paradoxical and crappy job, allow someone to post who is clearly violating the guidelines, this is abridging the free will of every other entity posting on good faith to uphold these guidelines. Why have guidelines at all if free will is paramount? If the current group of moderators believe that this poster hasn't violated the rules, well, that's their decision I guess. I'm just really struggling to see the ambiguity here. Do we think Carla's vision of the forums included entertaining people like this? I mean, I get it, it's so clearly a LARP, but it appears to me this person is willfully violating many of the guidelines.
Quote:To me STO are akin to players in an rpg following the main story where I am hacking the script and creating my own story, my own quests that will serve my sadistic nature and quenching my desires and lust for power, control and passion.
Quote:My openess here serves me as I see STO as lambs, I abhor your very philosophy, I hate it, to me it is hypocritical. I am an Eagle, a bird of prey. So by exposing myself more and more to it I am building resistance to it. I am building much more aversion towards it(your weakness and hypocrisy if you may permit it to call it like that). A non adept STS usually isn't as clever, more direct and more brutal he has not grown in mastery of self through spiritual way.
Quote:I check my narcism and Ego at the door and channel it toward achieving domineering wins, then I can indulge myself on any kind of excess for a while until I go back to hone my skills, tools etc, to continue my domination and exploitation of those who aren't of my kind.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Jade - 08-07-2021
(08-07-2021, 05:55 PM)Desaad khaan Wrote: Double post intended
Quote:You use a lot of words to justify yourself, but it's as simple as this: you openly stated you were here to use the STO "sheep" even though you despise us, and you gloated that you were too smart to get caught in your nefarious intentions. You said you were an eagle preying upon us, and have called Ra a liar in multiple posts, showing you have no desire to actually engage with this philosophy in any productive way. Your flattery towards the moderators should be seen for what it is: manipulation so that no one takes your toy away.Despise is a strong word, to strong for my taste.
Quote:called Ra a liar in multiple postsI think that either he has lied other from you says that the channeler has misrepresented bit of informations. To me it's the same.
Quote:nefarious intentionsIs this inquisition ? Instead of judging my intentions judge the actions, you will never be able to judge people's intention. Up to now, you actions (I put you in the same vein as my buddy sacred fool and ohn-rhef) have been, judging, rejecting, more judging, more rejection, manipulation, guilt trip, even more guilt trip. With all that you would've won an STS medal.
Quote:You said you were an eagle preying upon usNope I said I was an eagle, it's up to you to be whatever you want, I don't care. Be a sheep a crocodile, a snake, I don't care. Be an apex, be a prey, it's up to you, brutha.
Quote:you have no desire to actually engage with this philosophy in any productive way-Maybe not in "your" absolute way full of patronization, hypocrisy, guilt trip but yes in a productive way, just look at my exchange with the one named Aion you'll se what I am talking about.
Your flattery towards the moderators should be seen for what it is: manipulation so that no one takes your toy away - This says a lot about you that it does about me. I am complimenting their fairness because it is hard with some patronizing people on the forum not to lean on their side. They think they understood Ra better, they think that all that is written in the Ra material is the truth and should be treated as the absolute truth, next you'll find that we will be (quo)Ra(Nic) schools learning words for words what is written there. Many STO have always talked about prudence and questions some of the elements of the Ra material. In their effort not to offend you the plebes(religious) they talked about pruddence, when there is b***sh**** I call it b***sh*** but I also said that 70% of what is contained in the Ra material is "true".
Quote:I'm not afraid of spiders, but that doesn't mean I'd suffer a black widow that has taken residence in my chicken coop. I would kindly remove its well-advertised venemous being to another location that isn't a threat to the beings who have entrusted me with their care.Good for you, you don't own the earth thank you (lol). With your fear you would also have removed lions from savannah, eagle from mountains and crocodiles from swamp this is an "ism" called extremism so we are kinda brutha because I have an "ism" that start with the prefix supreme.
It is impossible to completely separate positive and negative, predators from preys, except conceptually and that you haven't still got this. This simple understanding will make you understand (redundancy) why no STO can come 99% service to others It'll also make you understand why the council of 9 use "artificial" arbitration to rule inferior densities. Thank you.
Quote:taken residence in my chicken coopYou guys are really patronizing. So is this forum is "YOUR(S)" chicken coop ?
It's called a metaphor, and you are clearly far more invested in maintaining a specific culture on the forums than I am (anymore). Anyway, I can't pretend like I care to engage you in any meaningful way, as your lack of sincerity drips from every unnecessary word. I've said my piece.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Ohr Ein Sof - 08-07-2021
(08-02-2021, 10:28 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: DISCLAIMER: I want to state that by no means the post below is an attempt to spread or promote any philosophies. I am just expressing my distortions towards "my" truth which everybody has (ALL). By no mean I am responsible on how the reader respond, I leave to interpretation of each individual to respond by any range of emotions they possess fear/love and I accept them very wellI just read this. Literally laughing out loud. Oh man.etc.
Quote:attempt to discuss, share, and examine this category of information—whether anecdotal or abstract—with the aim of understanding it in terms of spiritual evolution, polarity, self-knowing, and self-accepting
The post below is an opportunity for those who follow love to accept all and for me to accept self we are accepting indeed, it serves both adept as it accelerates each toward his/her polarities, evolution, self knowing and self accepting Now if the reader still think that I might *exhibit elements of deception and manipulative thinking *generate fear *reject or discourage universal love *encourage or promote control of self or others which is his/her own interpretation uniquely his/hers of my truth, I will ask him/her not to read the post below. If the reader is understanding, accepting and wise on his evolutionary path may he read with an open heart and not judge. Thank you(That was a long "damn" disclaimer
Quote:...If I were you (and I am glad I am not)....
That here summarizes it all. ALL is ONE or not ? Are you him or are you not ?
"Creating a guilt trip in another person may be considered to be psychological manipulation in the form of punishment for a perceived transgression.[1] Guilt trips are also considered to be a form of passive aggression.[2]
The victim may be reminded of something bad they did, made to feel guilty about it and then given an option to escape that guilt. The option will depend on what the manipulator wants them to do.[3] People often feel obliged to comply with guilt trip demands as a way of receiving others' approval.[4]" Wikipedia
Quote:What is wrong with you...Is this the image you want others to have of you…"...reminded of something bad they did" Wikipedia
Quote:….You talk too much....…how you lead by example?"...made to feel guilty about it" Wikipedia
Quote:DO NOT lie, be honest in all of your dealings!"...then given an option to escape that guilt" Wikipedia
Quote:Words....shhhhhhh stillness; regroup"then given an option to escape that guilt" Wikipedia
Quote:So I will adjust. Please do not hesitate to let me know if my future interactions still makes you feel uncomfortable"...People often feel obliged to comply" Wikipedia
It must having being hard for STO people on this forum not to take your criticisms personally with all your poisoned comments, Your inability to adapt and to enjoy makes you easy to recognize; your mental rigidity adds to that.
You guys have no idea of which is STS or maybe you do and I am the fall-guy for not recognizing you sooner. But with the benefit of the doubt If you did not have an idea of what is STS you would have started to look at yourself and see how patronizing many of you are, and I can only imagine how discourses between you and others about the direction of the forum went with all that "patronizing and guilt trip".
For the true STO who might read this, this is a warning:
"These are people who follow fixed ideas and try to make other bend to their standards. They want to change others , to make them a better person according to their bias, so they endlessly criticize and judge--that is their pleasure in life. In truth, their moral ideas stem from their own unhappiness, and they mask their desire to dominate those around them. The Law of One and this forum just gave them the opportunity to feel important but their deeds even through (subconscious)hiding are clear as water to me because I am also an STS by choice not by impulse. Regardless of you believing me or not, analyze their actions and you'll see them for who they are and not for the image they want to give"
Quote:..Is this the image you want others to have of you…....analyze their actions and you'll see them for who they are and not for the image they want to give
I truly feel sorry for the innocent STO, they can doubt my words but they can't doubt your actions.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Desaad khaan - 08-07-2021
Quote:Thanks I will take your compliment. I do not care what you think truthfully. I made a suggestion to just be still. Can we not suggest something? What is patronizing is your pretending to be a little bit persuasive in your words. I could care less about your polarization quite frankly. I feel umoved. Take it how you wish, the choice is yours. Your path is a valid one but I still feel unmoved by it. I am more moved about a lovely butterfly or a stream of water.Yet you keep responding. This is a man/woman/alien who claim that it/he/she doesn't care about me, yet it/she/he keeps responding that is insane (LOL). Leave me alone. If you can't see how what you are doing is patronizing it's up to you, keep that bias until 4th density and you'll come right back to me in less than an eon.
****I do not pretend to be something I am not.
Quote:Your path is a valid one but I still feel unmoved by itYet you keep responding and contradicting yourself, if you are unmoved by it, why are
Quote:This is almost too funny.I can't (lol), I might become an STO lol
Quote:What does it mean for these forums to be dedicated as a service to others?Bro this is called duality, first you use the material to help yourself then to help others (or a restricted clan). But it come first by using it on/for yourself, is it really that hard to understand ?
Quote: but not to the point of hurting othersDid I hurt you or tell you to hurt someone ? Be very specific about it ?
Quote:nor active support seeking of truth by STO individuals banding together nor purposeful offering of love.How can you judge that ? You waited a book channeled by someone else to tell you how existence operated, now you know that in this universe there is no affirmative support towards the work of confederation.
Now the next logical question would be, what is the work of the confederation ? Don't you think that STSes are also member of that confederation ? People keep citing "Orion" like it was the only STS people on this plan actually people confuse the draconic race of alpha Centauri with elder of the" black race" from Orion the house of Bethel or Betelgeuse.
There exist actually 3 great Stses alien races on earth inn my knowing, the draconic, the Venusian or luciferian and the let's call them "Mighty" (I won't reveal their real name here) from Orion, an old astronaut talked about it here 3min: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6JMDqHzyWU
these are the real guys from Orion, they are "Black" they signed a contract that the confederation accepted but didn't applied... These are what you call Orion "invaders" like they make you believe (lol), the race of Sirius house of Bethel or betelgeuse. The more talked STSes actually are either Venusian or Draconic. These Orion guys are mentionned in the Bible and any religious text as sphinxes or Irin. The world seldom mention them, this is the reason why I call Ra a (not a full) "liar" due to the fact that Genghis Khan was harvested by the draconian not the "black like alien race".
I won't go too deep in it, you are spiritual babies.
Now thank you.
Quote:I just read this. Literally laughing out loud. Oh man.Cool that you are taking it like that, I do already a lot negative dark gloomy stuff (that I won't tell here) in irl that it's cool, now you are starting playing the game like an adept
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Sacred Fool - 08-07-2021
One other thing I would mention here is that it is well to acknowledge one's shadow with love, in whatever mirror it may chance to appear to one. Q'uo often repeats that our job here is to love the unlovable and accept the unacceptable.
In this instance, we could simply accept that one such as this has come to visit to see what is here for it to exchange its energies with. And, indeed, its time has not been wasted in that regard. However, were this a channeling session run by Carla L. Rueckert McCarty, she would very quickly thank the negatively oriented being for its service and then banish it from the place of working. Why? Because the intent of such is to disrupt or divert the working. But what if there really is no such working going on? Does such a rule apply then? This feature complicates the situation, I would observe.
To me, our friend does us a service by pointing out that this website is largely a social klatsch, not a quasi-sacred space for spiritual study and support. Were the site abounding in dedicated positive energy, methinks a response such as Carla would have delivered would be swift. (She was particularly sensitive, given her history, to negative infringement in a sacred space.)
And so, what we have now is a tad noisy and muddled, but not irretrievable, I would say. With some resolute leadership, things might improve. I would say that the instrument of these forums needs to be overhauled so as to be something closer to a beacon of light in service to the one Creatrix rather than mainly a spot to display partially polarised, largely randomised chatter. One obvious advantage to this would be greater clarity of understanding and action in the face of the odd visit from the "loyal opposition."
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Desaad khaan - 08-07-2021
(08-07-2021, 07:29 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:
One other thing I would mention here is that it is well to acknowledge one's shadow with love, in whatever mirror it may chance to appear to one. Q'uo often repeats that our job here is to love the unlovable and accept the unacceptable.
In this instance, we could simply accept that one such as this has come to visit to see what is here for it to exchange its energies with. And, indeed, its time has not been wasted in that regard. However, were this a channeling session run by Carla L. Rueckert McCarty, she would very quickly thank the negatively oriented being for its service and then banish it from the place of working. Why? Because the intent of such is to disrupt or divert the working. But what if there really is no such working going on? Does such a rule apply then? This feature complicates the situation, I would observe.
To me, our friend does us a service by pointing out that this website is largely a social klatsch, not a quasi-sacred space for spiritual study and support. Were the site abounding in dedicated positive energy, methinks a response such as Carla would have delivered would be swift. (She was particularly sensitive, given her history, to negative infringement in a sacred space.)
And so, what we have now is a tad noisy and muddled, but not irretrievable, I would say. With some resolute leadership, things might improve. I would say that the instrument of these forums needs to be overhauled so as to be something closer to a beacon of light in service to the one Creatrix rather than mainly a spot to display partially polarised, largely randomised chatter. One obvious advantage to this would be greater clarity of understanding and action in the face of the odd visit from the "loyal opposition."
Quote:not a quasi-sacred spaceIn mastery you understand that space is just trivial compared to attention and that everything labeled sacred carries in it the seeds of hypocrisy. Because for it to be a "sacred space" there would need to be un-sacred space which your ideology and mine refute in way.
Quote:Because the intent of such is to disrupt or divert the workingFew are working here, ascension demands mastery being good or bad is not enough. You guys are focus on black or white instead of poor player great player. STO and STS at some point is irrelevant for the work. There is just twisted minds and less twisted minds.
Quote:]With some resolute leadership, things might improveIt's not a leadership that you lack on this site but a clear direction where all of you are focused towards it. If I was leading the forum I would've commanded the members to focus their attention on unveiling using every rituals that came naturally to them, this is when you vexerce a potential change this is when you create a social complex. Here you only lack one thing, it's a GOAL
You gained one toy (Ra material) and you don't know what to do about it just like a scientist reviewing some scientific formulas over and over again, you have to try to build something, try build a social memory complex from scratch, a focused group on healing an hospital (for a test) or one guy who is not in harmony with its body. It start with only two person, try using your fabulous powers of creation instead of letting it rotting like rat and fighting a battle that doesn't exist. You guys keep repeating the same information changing minuscule to a majuscule and patting yourself on the back of your heads, telling yourselves how lovely you are and how on the way of transcendence and truth you are advancing.
You guys don't lack leaders, you have plenty, you lack entrepreneurs, dreamers, achievers etc. The sole fact that I am not blocked on the forum is proof that there is leadership and understanding of rules by the moderators. You might think that I am trying to flatter but this the truth that I think. Leadership necessitate patience, observation and seldom use of unnecessary brutality exactly how Genghis Khan built his empire (there is something to learn).
Quote:"loyal opposition."There is no opposition here lol there never was, I just had a bet with a wolf on if you could do better or not, I thought you could. I am here to put the world through fire and iron and this fire will melt in real life not online. I am here to take the gold and silver on the vault of your churches and institution for you to see that God sent me and that I am unstoppable but my time hasn't come now. I am merely betting with an old wolf that's all.
For there to be a disturbance it needs a "working" first. There is no working here. Most of the adept on this site are quiet and most posts are filled by people who found in a Ra material a new meaning of life, swearing on it like (quo)Ra(Nic) scholars. People never question the implication of what is negative or positive, because they are labels. Left is bad, good is right, up is this, down is this... Now I come with question, if any entities in 4th plus density can change their polarities easily as one can put clothes on our 3rd density, is polarity even an issue then ?
Ra said that she/he/it didn't knew about 7th density negative beings does that mean they don't exist ?
There was one self proclaimed STS here named Zaxon I think did he received a witch hunt ?
The reason why this forum seems static is because of you, the mud was here before me, I am actually the only one to tell you what your hypocritical others aren't able to tell you, you are patronizing and always rejecting the fault on someone else instead of being the change you want to see. It starts with two.
One a post on bbring4th for following up some "focused healing as a group" and two a weekly rapport on the effect of this working "as a group". This will be beneficial to you and act as mean to accelerate potentiation, now if you wait quo(Ra) to tell you this for you to move, it's up to you. But don't act like you didn't have the mean to write a post, or at least to people to adventure on this endeavor for at least 5 months. Don't come here talk about negative entities preventing you from doing so, don't come here talking about leaders when you are the first to patronize people for useless stuff etc. All these are excuses, a social complex needs activity, you provide none.
I could go in length with that, but since most of you guys never did something great or outstanding with your life, blaming the villain STS or negative energies or energy transfer is easier than blaming yourselves. It start with two. I got two therapeutic words for you F**** Y*** !!!.
Now you can go about and be the change you want to take place, nature will take its course, negative or Sts or whatever you call not will still be them but you, just be what your heart is calling you to be with no shame and excuse, F***** it!!!!!!.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - unity100 - 08-08-2021
Wealth by itself does not do anything. It is an inert resource that does nothing until used. Therefore it is not useful for any kind of polarization unless it is used by the entity to do something.
Some entities may equalize the quantity of imaginary financial wealth they have in this system with their own self-worth or self-importance, and they may be able to negatively polarize like that somewhat, but that's still a pretty weak way to polarize.
If the entity uses his/her wealth to advertise for itself, take credit for things which s/he didnt do, exaggerate its own being, influence other people, lie to them to manipulate them and so on, then wealth could be a useful polarization tool.
Additionally extreme wealth on this planet does not come from money or real estate or the worth of things which you can physically have or hold, but from the valuation of the stocks.
Incidentally stocks also happen to determine control of large organizations - if someone has a controlling share in a corporation, s/he is its private tyrant and can do whatever it wants with the organization and those people inside it. Of course, this is reduced somewhat by regulations in places where the law gives extreme freedom for private tyranny like US, and its reduced considerably further in other countries where they have proper labor and corporate regulations. But still, the current negative economic system allows entities to command gigantic organizations as if they were their personal fiefdoms. Think of Walton family who owns Walmart, an organization with 3 million people in it, which is economically larger than ~120 countries. Its a major power, which they have in their hands. Useful for negative polarization.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Sacred Fool - 08-08-2021
(08-07-2021, 10:38 PM)Desaad khaan Wrote:Quote:...not a quasi-sacred space
In mastery you understand that space is just trivial compared to attention and that everything labeled sacred carries in it the seeds of hypocrisy. Because for it to be a "sacred space" there would need to be un-sacred space which your ideology and mine refute in way.
Quo Feb. 6, 2005 Wrote:G: Q’uo, who or what are the “lions at the gate of green ray”?
We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. The figure of the lions at the gate of the temple is an ancient means of expressing a truth concerning spiritual gifts. The New York Public Library, that this instrument has seen, has just such lions sitting couchant upon the two sides of the steps leading up to its main entrance.
The mythical concept of lions at the gate goes back for many thousands of years in your cultures and has to do with that sense of safety that entities wish to feel when they go to bed at night and blow out their candle and lie in the darkness waiting for sleep. There is that desire to know that you are protected. The reality of your inner energy system is that you are indeed protected at each level so that unwise use of energy cannot actually destroy the energy body.
When one is attempting to move into the heart, one is attempting to enter a sacred space. Even more than the gates of a city or the gates of a library which are supposed to protect knowledge and wisdom, the gates of the heart protect you, your essential self. If you barge into that sacred space drinking and wenching and swearing and making a great deal of rude noise, you have entered a sacred space inappropriately and the heart chakra does not wish to be entered inappropriately. Consequently, if you attempt to move into your heart chakra, to come through that door into that sacred space, when you are not appropriately tuned, you shall, in one way or another, be kicked out by the lions at the gate. That is the meaning of that figure.
Again I say, the current display of rude violation and the lack of inherent protection argues that this space is not a temple of the heart. Should it be such? That's the choice of those who superintend the space, as well as the rest of us who often cast our votes with our feet. It could be held as sacred if such were desired, it could be otherwise. The possibilities are manifold.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Jade - 08-08-2021
I want to apologize for the tone in my reaction yesterday. I want to clarify that my response was one of genuine befuddlement, as I was sure we had a conversation several months ago that led to increasing the moderation force in triplicate. Yet, here is someone clearly violating many of the several pages of rules and guidelines, the least of which not being that this is a space for service to others entities to seek along the same path.
There are two ways an adept service to self entity can utilize otherselves to gain polarity. One way is to put others under the thumb, let's say - much like this person is by violating the rules only insofar as it draws a warning from the moderation. The other is to distract and depolarize those who wield the light. So which one are we signing up for when we merrily engage someone who has stated their intention is to use us in such a way?
When we try to assert our polarity through manifested change, the wolf of temptation is never far behind. (Moon card) It seems to me that faced with the choice to implement that desired change, the forum at large has decided that it prefers the chaos, drama, and fantasy of a unregulated anonymous forum, which is fine. I don't hate the drama. I'm just uncomfortable with the bait and switch.
Quote:Questioner: Then there is no other service that we can at this time offer that fifth-density entity of the Orion group who is so constantly with us. There is… Is there… As I see it now there is nothing that we can do for him from your point of view? Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. There is great humor in your attempt to be of polarized service to the opposite polarity. There is a natural difficulty in doing so since what you consider service is considered by this entity non-service. As you send this entity love and light and wish it well it loses its polarity and needs to regroup.
Thus it would not consider your service as such. On the other hand, if you allowed it to be of service by removing this instrument from your midst you might perhaps perceive this as not being of service. You have here a balanced and polarized view of the Creator; two services offered, mutually rejected, and in a state of equilibrium in which free will is preserved and each allowed to go upon its own path of experiencing the One Infinite Creator.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Ohr Ein Sof - 08-08-2021
Why can we not ban this entity? You banned a positive person from the forum. So why can we not shut this one out? I am asking why and I am not calling for it to be banned to be very clear here.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - meadow-foreigner - 08-08-2021
(08-08-2021, 04:21 PM)Ohr Ein Sof Wrote: Why can we not ban this entity? You banned a positive person from the forum. So why can we not shut this one out? I am asking why and I am not calling for it to be banned to be very clear here.
You can try to block your eyesight from the sun and it will keep shining nonetheless.
To try to avoid catalyst isn't the purpose of incarnating in 3D, even more so at Earth, at this particular space/time juncture.
Opposition aggrandizes one's resolution to whatever path one may choose to trail.
Notwithstanding that, The Creation is One, and Service to the Creation Itself is the only type of service that there is.
I would like to reply to Desaad's post when I have more time, though with all of this fuzz I don't know if they will be able to actually read and interact with it.
There's a frequent tendency in all people to try to stick to crystallized ideas or beliefs and to react with violence whenever these beliefs are put in check. It seems to be a human tendency to be overcome.
I, for one, am enjoying a contrast of opinions and standpoints for once in this forum. We're already saturated with echo chambers in today's pseudo-diverse world.
To try and erase whoever wants to state their opinions and truth is to consequently try and erase the Creation itself — a futile endeavor — and ironically a behavior associated with the denial, suppression, and oppression, characteristics of the system that has chastised humankind for so long.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Desaad khaan - 08-08-2021
Quote:There are two ways an adept service to self entity can utilize otherselves to gain polarity
There are many ways to polarize, I have explained on that matter lengthily in one of my post explaining that journaling for a young adept was a process of polarization when being initiated to magic. It's not because you thibnk that there is only two ways that there is only 2. Infinite energy as infinite ways to come to manifest itself. Neither Ra nor Quo know everything and you find it hard to accept.
Quote:Why can we not ban this entity? You banned a positive person from the forum. So why can we not shut this one out?
Was this person good because you two shared same beliefs or was he "absolutely" good ?
This is another attempt at guilt tripping and manipulation (I am tired to point out of you use some manipulation tools like amateurs), trying to mix two case who aren't close, you are using biased inference in this case . Let's stop with the label positive or negative (O almighty judges) and let's use STS or STO instead.
Now was he removed from the forum solely because he was STO/good ? If no, why would you want somebody to be removed because he/she is STS/STO. Okay now I won't use the term STS instead I'll use LML (Living my life), I am just Living My Life, I am polarizing toward Lml, may your majesty forgive me (lol)
Before "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." One guy said that long time before.
Quote:If you barge into that sacred space drinking and wenching and swearing and making a great deal of rude noise...If telling the truth and saying outloud that you are manipulative and hypocritical in your methods is rude noise then I'll be rude to you subjectively.
I want a "procès", call the moderators and the judges and let me be judged then. I stand on the basis of truth. Because I am "alone" in the cosmos I have the obligation to shine brighter compared to the beings that uses the lights of other "celestial" bodies calling them absolute masters. You paint STS environment as hell and all, I say it isn't. Good, now judge me.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Desaad khaan - 08-08-2021
DOUBLE POST INTENDED.
Quote:I would like to reply to Desaad's post when I have more time, though with all of this fuzz I don't know if they will be able to actually read and interact with it.You're welcome, I want to be challenged, having other intelligent perspective, I want to grow bigger and faster and hope you do the same
Quote:There's a frequent tendency in all people to try to stick to crystallized ideas or beliefs and to react with violence whenever these beliefs are put in check. It seems to be a human tendency to be overcome.Thank you, thank you very much. I am checking them and they have no other arguments than saying "I am the devil" which I kinda am
but they have no arguments 
.Quote:I, for one, am enjoying a contrast of opinions and standpoints for once in this forum. We're already saturated with echo chambers in today's pseudo-diverse world.That's what I was trying to tell them, You can't paint without contrast, colors are contrast. I cannot do any harm to them at this point , only themselves could.
Quote:To try and erase whoever wants to state their opinions and truth is to consequently try and erase the Creation itself — a futile endeavor — and ironically a behavior associated with the denial, suppression, and oppression, characteristics of the system that has chastised humankind for so long.Thank you again, just like repressed LGBTQ, I think they may be repressed STS, but that is my humble opinion.
To try and erase whoever wants to state their opinions and truth is to consequently try and erase the Creation itself Ironically this is absolutely and personally what I would've done if I was moderating my forum though (lol) but it isn't my forum
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Louisabell - 08-08-2021
I wanted to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. I just wanted to share out of my own volition that the CSC is watching this situation, some steps have already been taken, but there is certainly more to do here. We share a lot of the opinions that have been expressed here, and we are always grateful to hear of the concern and investment members have for Bring4th. It is especially motivating in light of the difficult catalyst that we have experienced the last few weeks. We have discovered certain areas where our process and procedures can be better adapted to handle these situations in a more timely manner. Jade is correct that the number of stewards have been tripled with the birth of the CSC, yet the higher number of people can also delay final decisions.
We do hope you stay with us as we carry on to the finish line in bringing in some helpful changes to respond to community needs.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Desaad khaan - 08-08-2021
(08-08-2021, 06:23 PM)Louisabell Wrote: I wanted to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. I just wanted to share out of my own volition that the CSC is watching this situation, some steps have already been taken, but there is certainly more to do here. We share a lot of the opinions that have been expressed here, and we are always grateful to hear of the concern and investment members have for Bring4th. It is especially motivating in light of the difficult catalyst that we have experienced the last few weeks. We have discovered certain areas where our process and procedures can be better adapted to handle these situations in a more timely manner. Jade is correct that the number of stewards have been tripled with the birth of the CSC, yet the higher number of people can also delay final decisions.
We do hope you stay with us as we carry on to the finish line in bringing in some helpful changes to respond to community needs.
The most efficient solution would just be to add a button that hides all the comment of a specific member(s) for another member. And I wanted to ask just out of curiosity after the decision is taken if we would be allowed to look at the decision process in transparency, this especially curious and interesting to me( STSes discovery purpose).
RE: STS entities and Wealth - meadow-foreigner - 08-08-2021
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote:Quote:There are organized social systems that base their functioning solely upon [b]volition and the inner pulls of each and every member of it as a whole[/b]Money can't start by free will, it is enforced by a form of violence I must admit first (police, military etc) without it money won't exist.
That is truly debatable, if one broads the scope of money to go beyond the concept of debt.
From a mathematical-logistical standpoint: money can be interpreted as a byproduct of an exchange, validated because of a logistical flow between two or more individuals, agents, or agencies; or because of a biunivocal mathematical relation between two or more sets.
In this sense, whenever there is a relation (and not just a barter or mediated exchange), there may be an energetic stamp or token associated with it. In this sense, money can be interpreted as an amount of focused energy.
Because the world government actively acts as the enforcer of the rules of money, its uses are a restraint to the volition of these supply agents (which supply the rules, in this case). Were there freedom in the appliance of such rules (and I'm not referring to bargaining but to social consensus which vary, according to the specific social radius, alongside other intervenient variables such as personal interests, the notion of desire, &c.)
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: It has been shown in time of great crisis that either precious metals or survival skills are valued more than money.
Because the social consensus varies according to the circumstances, the attribution of value or worth also shifts.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: Those crisis time encapsulate metaphorically the state natural of human being out here in the world faced with predators etc.
I wouldn't be so hasty to peremptorily affirm it. The human experiment was a carefully designed one for specific ends; not a mere byproduct of chance. Inasmuch as there are animalistic tendencies within the human experience, these tendencies are very much secondary to the conscious employment of volition of a human-vested individual.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: That is even more true when to accept money out their own volition its users would've first to understand its intricacies before accepting it, which they don't. How can somebody buy a car without knowing what it does either he has been scammed or forced to buy. There is a great anthropological book that further demonstrate this.
If you restrain someone's volition and leave them little to no choice, can you say they actually had true volition? The very act of forcing one's will upon one another is an act that strips the oppressed volition, thus also diminishing their responsibility in such a process: how can one choose when presented with a superior force?
This is the problem that exists on a social scale: if one enforces one's will upon one another, one may gain more labor and compliance, but one loses the divine free manifestation that a free soul would be able to express, unrestricted and unbound by coercion (in simple terms: "f*** it, why even bother?" mentality).
In such a free state, one's soul is more effective at manifesting the divine within; thus more effectively improving the net total quality state of society.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: I agree with you that money isn't a system based solely on volition now show me a system that is and that works on a large scale.
I appreciate your request and find it even entertaining; considering that we share existence on Earth.
I'll give you the opportunity to think this one out. There are numerous examples of animal societies of volition-based systems; and plenty of examples in intergalactic civilizations.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: Now we'll go through a long introduction of what money actually is in a condensed version (non ironic irony)
« One of the first things General Gallieni did after “pacification,” as they liked to call it then, was to impose heavy taxes on the Malagasy population, in part so they could reimburse the costs of having been invaded, but also, since French colonies were supposed to be fiscally self-supporting, to defray the costs of building the railroads, highways, bridges, plantations, and so forth that the French regime wished to build. Malagasy taxpayers were never asked whether they wanted these railroads, highways, bridges, and plantations, or allowed much input into where and how they were built.1 To the contrary: over the next half century, the French army and police slaughtered quite a number of Malagasy who objected too strongly to the arrangement (upwards of half a million, by some reports, during one revolt in 1947). It’s not as if Madagascar has ever done any comparable damage to France. Despite this, from the beginning, the Malagasy people were told they owed France money, and to this day, the Malagasy people are still held to owe France money, and the rest of the world accepts the justice of this arrangement. »
From: David Graeber. « Debt. » Apple Books.
When a society is timocratic, it is most likely biased towards the attainment of ends through the use of violence and its derivatives, such as the notion of debt. However, money itself, as I demonstrated above, isn't necessarily and indissociably bound to violence.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: Basically money is just a debt record, without enforcing nobody(smart) would try to pay their debts.
Not necessarily. This is a non sequitur fallacy (affirming the consequent).
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: Which everybody does when they purchase something. Usually the service is offered first then the money (debt) is paid after.
A loan isn't the only way to create and circulate money. The world bank's administration is just one of many ways to manage money in today's society, and as I demonstrated by my previous post about the impairing effects of such a narrow vision, it compromises society as a whole, and, therefore, also the ones administering it.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: Then the book go much more in depth with the subject.
According to me it is much more likely that money has been imposed at first due to the fact that it is a portable unit of debt, this would've eased many advanced government cost of operation, cost (in time etc).
Your inputs and also your bibliography are appreciated.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: « The State, therefore, comes in first of all as the authority of law which enforces the payment of the thing which corresponds to the name or description in the contract. »
This is a Roman social structure, which built its legacy upon the military enforcement and also a clever use and imposition of a legal system, which they deviated from the Greeks, who were also narrow-minded in their view of citizenship; especially in their value attribution to specific demographics. Such could be interpreted as just a rational justification to their ignorance in regards to the multiplicity of cultures and social values of the world at the time.
That, of course, was very likely inherited from the Earth's colonizers' mindset and values.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: « The real weak link in state-credit theories of money was always the element of taxes. It is one thing to explain why early states demanded taxes (in order to create markets.) It’s another to ask “by what right?” Assuming that early rulers were not simply thugs, and that taxes were not simply extortion—and no Credit Theorist, to my knowledge, took such a cynical view even of early government—one must ask how they justified this sort of thing. »
The political notion of the necessity — or lack thereof — of a regulating State to manage society is highly debatable.
Considering the religious indoctrination of Catholic and Islamic strands, people have been much more likely to acquiesce or comply with external sources of coercion and management. Therefore, people seem to be more receptive to a governmental controlling unit instead of the added responsibility and accountability that more liberty implies, on a social scale.
However, taxes are only one element of the process of energy accumulating. It leaves several questions still open like the concept of distributive justice, the use of coercion or force to oblige individuals to comply, and the lack of capacity to handle the structure if people have the liberty to choose to participate in such a sociopolitical system or not.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: « Nowadays, we all think we know the answer to this question. We pay our taxes so that the government can provide us with services. This starts with security services—military protection being, often, about the only service some early states were really able to provide. By now, of course, the government provides all sorts of things. All of this is said to go back to some sort of original “social contract” that everyone somehow agreed on, though no one really knows exactly when or by whom, or why we should be bound by the decisions of distant ancestor tors on this one matter when we don’t feel particularly bound by the decisions of our distant ancestors on anything else. All of this makes sense if you assume that markets come before governments, but the whole argument totters quickly once you realize that they don’t. »
David Graeber. « Debt. » Apple Books.
This type of agreement only holds strong because people acquiesce unquestioningly to it, and because of a lack of other viable options in humankind's social life; precisely because of the semi-oligarchy that runs the modern world by now.
Even then, they are impaired by their lack of wisdom and intelligence in their management, whereas the people stripped from their volition have little to no explicit incentives to reach beyond their homeostatic social comfort level, which effectively makes society analogous to that of a really hungry and really slow-moving organism that tends to consume ever-increasing quantities of energy to sustain itself, up to points of social collapse (which then the organism disposes itself of the expendables mentioned earlier) only to repeat cycling through the same pattern; because the rules that the system is based on are purposefully and fundamentally flawed.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote:Quote:In this case, the propeller of progress and evolution of such societies is volition itself, and the ends that it seeks are consonant to each individual innermost desires at any point, which are a reflection of each individual spiritual progression at any point. As simplified and reduced examples: a caretaker would feel the desire to take care of other beings because it would benefit their spiritual evolution the most at that particular time; a builder to build, and so on.No things of volition would necessitate the use of violence in order to exist, which again money does, I agree with you. The ammo of every country has been used against its own population when compounded than against an ext. enemy (invaders etc.), by trying to undermine revolutions, rebellion or any kind of mutineers, true.
Now for the rest of your example, it is so simplistically put and brush off the fact that even though human are self-interest driven(care taker want to take care etc), the problem now isn't the drive itself but the survival that come with it, you seem to go past the necessities (resources protection against predators etc) of a human life.
You may seem to be mistaking the consequence for the cause.
To affirm that humankind is undoubtedly self-interest-driven is to exclude every other possibility of cause for their actions (consequences).
Such is a simplistic, black and white worldview, and almost a joke to the myriad of experiences and perceptions that compose the totality of the human experience — which, again, is nothing but a vest.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote:Quote:Such unconstrained individuals would effortlessly gravitate towards their most needed aspects of progression, which would be harmonious and beneficial to themselves and to society as a whole at the same time.This works only if their needs are met.
Here you seem to be once again mistaking the consequence for the cause; affirming implicitly that if their needs aren't met, then they will necessarily not . . .
Which, again, is affirming the consequent.
I realize that in the above example I have also affirmed that, without showing indisputable proof of the sentence. That is because such proof would imply a superior, unchallengeable truth or path; which is not the case in the Infinity that is the Creation.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: Now to continue with what money is.
« If you owe the bank a hundred thousand dollars, the bank owns you. If you owe the bank a hundred million dollars, you own the bank. »
A brilliant phrase, considering the narrow mindset that it is founded on.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: « 70s oil crisis, OPEC countries ended up pouring so much of their newfound riches into Western banks that the banks couldn’t figure out where to invest the money; how Citibank and Chase therefore began sending agents around the world trying to convince Third World dictators and politicians to take out loans (at the time, this was called “go-go banking”); how they started out at extremely low rates of interest that almost immediately skyrocketed to 20 percent or so due to tight U.S. money policies in the early ‘80s; how, during the ’80s and ’90s, this led to the Third World debt crisis; »
« I could have begun by explaining how these loans had originally been taken out by unelected dictators who placed most of it directly in their Swiss bank accounts, and ask her to contemplate the justice of insisting that the lenders be repaid, not by the dictator, or even by his cronies, but by literally taking food from the mouths of hungry children »
« But there was a more basic problem: the very assumption that debts have to be repaid. »
David Graeber. « Debt. » Apple Books.
Bear with me. In the 2008 subprime crisis who were the individuals that were "constrained" to pay and who weren't ?
Simply put, whoever wasn't clever or inside enough the game was constrained to pay, and this is because of a social consensus enforced by the government and, most importantly, agreed on by the populace.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: « Surely one has to pay one’s debts.”
The reason it’s so powerful is that it’s not actually an economic statement: it’s a moral statement. »
A flawed moral statement, considering a different view of the energetic logistics of the Universe.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: « If history shows anything, it is that there’s no better way to justify relations founded on violence, to make such relations seem moral, than by reframing them in the language of debt(Money)—above all, because it immediately makes it seem that it’s the victim who’s doing something wrong. Mafiosi understand this. So do the commanders of conquering armies. For thousands of years, violent men have been able to tell their victims that those victims owe them something. If nothing else, they “owe them their lives” (a telling phrase) because they haven’t been killed. »
Absolutely. It's the blame game, appealing to the egoic social construct of individuals to force their compliance. Shame-based tactics are centuries old and were made really popular by some churches.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: « But debt is not just victor’s justice; it can also be a way of punishing winners who weren’t supposed to win. The most spectacular example of this is the history of the Republic of Haiti—the first poor country to be placed in permanent debt peonage. Haiti was a nation founded by former plantation slaves who had the temerity not only to rise up in rebellion, amidst grand declarations of universal rights and freedoms, but to defeat Napoleon’s armies sent to return them to bondage. France immediately insisted that the new republic owed it 150 million francs in damages for the expropriated plantations, as well as the expenses of outfitting the failed military expeditions, and all other nations, including the United States, agreed to impose an embargo on the country until it was paid. The sum was intentionally impossible (equivalent to about 18 billion dollars), and the resultant embargo ensured that the name “Haiti” has been a synonym for debt, poverty, and human misery ever since. »
David Graeber. « Debt. » Apple Books.
Once again, it works because Roman justice is still in force nowadays. People apparently haven't thought of something more effective than 'millenia' old rules.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: « So what is the status of all this money continually being funneled into the U.S. treasury? Are these loans? Or is it tribute? In the past, military powers that maintained hundreds of military bases outside their own home territory were ordinarily referred to as “empires,” and empires regularly demanded tribute from subject peoples. The U.S. government, of course, insists that it is not an empire—but one could easily make a case that the only reason it insists on treating these payments as “loans” and not as “tribute” is precisely to deny the reality of what’s going on. »
« What is the difference between a gangster pulling out a gun and demanding you give him a thousand dollars of “protection money,” and that same gangster pulling out a gun and demanding you provide him with a thousand-dollar “loan”? In most ways, obviously, nothing. But in certain ways there is a difference. As in the case of the U.S. debt to Korea or Japan, were the balance of power at any point to shift, were America to lose its military supremacy, were the gangster to lose his henchmen, that “loan” might start being treated very differently. »
were America to lose its military supremacy, were the gangster to lose his henchmen, that “loan” might start being treated very differently. This is to show the close relationship between the ability to coerce and money.
The practical reality is that yes, it is an empire — a rather crumbling one.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote:Quote:The monetary system functions as a substitute for the propelling force of society towards progress and evolution while, at the same time, restraining — throughout the replacement of the paramount societal importance of each member's own volition and spiritual inclinations — the liberty of individuals in a monetary society.. The monetary system functions as a substitute for the propelling force of society towards progress - I agree on the conclusion but disagree on the premise and the semantic. The monetary system serves the status quo it just so happen that there are smart individuals who can take advantages of that system, with that said, monetary sys. become a genuine propelling force toward progress not just a substitute.
The fact that it is a genuine propelling force does not necessarily imply that it isn't a substitute.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: Because it gives a huge window of opportunity to intelligent/smart individuals, by intelligent I don't mean intellectual. Hence the disruption occurring in this type of system is much more "pronounced and impactful" just like an "oasis in a desert" accelerating the leap forward at each breaks. In order to ascend in the monetary world you have to be the best at least in 4 different areas, spiritual, politic, scientific, wisdom/warfare etc. whereas in a non monetary based system you'll need to be very good at only one. This is like training in hell, wherever you go next will be easy.
That is very arguable; as perspective — and a certain dose of modesty and prudence — indicate that there are always 'better' and 'worse' vantage points comparing to the current one.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: Where I agree with you is that those smart individuals(few) then are still bound to maintain the status quo in their turns and that money wasn't made with evolution as it's priority but status quo.
NB: It is evolution indeed but not always "progress" as you implied, I can give that to you because it is just a syntactic error. Either it is progress or regress, you can't say it is evolution and progress, because progress or regress already imply to an evolution.
Not necessarily. Once again, beware of absolute truths and intransigences.
Definition of progress
a forward or onward movement (as to an objective or to a goal) : ADVANCE
Definition of evolution
the gradual development of something over the course of space/time, especially from a simple to a more complex form.
a forward or onward movement (as to an objective or to a goal) : ADVANCE
Definition of evolution
the gradual development of something over the course of space/time, especially from a simple to a more complex form.
In this sense, progress can be defined as a function of certain ends (which may be destructive or anti-evolutive in regards to simplifying what was complex); whereas evolution can be understood as being a historical record that is also part of a Universal database.
The two terms are similar and have a certain overlapping, but their non-intersecting semantic areas are considerable.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote:Quote:This system's restraints set a lower bound of slavery and debt, thus imposing a predictable and crude survival mode, which fosters crime and punishment, which in turn begets more crime, more punishment, and so on.First of all the word crimes is to broad, what do you imply by that ? Rather than using "crime" which depends nowadays on the institutions where those said crimes are done (not every state punish the same crime, some says majority 18 other 21 etc.) I'll use crime as a stubtitue for violence.
Crime can be understood, in this example, as any act that is not socially consensued or agreed upon. For instance: in today's society there are explicit rules and boundaries (enforced by the State) and implicit rules and boundaries (subject to the expectations of the social agents in any given environment). Whenever people cross these boundaries, there is the notion of crime.
I consider violence to be a crude and unrefined definition for crime because the use of force with the intention to hurt, damage, or kill, can be actually constructive in a broader perspective. For instance: a muscular injury may occur in a deliberately violent manner, though the muscle tends to super compensate and actually rebuilt itself in a greater way than it was before the injury.
Therefore, violence may serve a constructive or positive goal, rather than a negative one.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: The very existence of money based system foster less "crimes" because it benefits the ruling class. Heavy resources are poured in order to achieve less crime.
That is also debatable and rather simplistic because crimes are very profitable in today's society.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: You need slaves to work for you not to kill each other, which explain why our society paradoxically is the first one to be so eager to fight "hate and violence" on its boarder much more so than ever before, thanks to the woke-ism. If USA wasn't the Juggernaut it is now, there would have been more violence compounded in its territory than now. Unless you show me a system that isn't money that worked.
Second of all, money can be a lesser bound to slavery but can't be a lesser bound on debt because it is debt itself, as demonstrated by my previous posts.
I addressed these points above.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote:Quote:Because money is the toll to access most of the resources of a monetary-based society, and because the agents that regulate supply also fabricate and enforce upon society the demands that are most convenient to the supply agents' agenda (which, in turn, perpetrates maximum enslavement for agents in the sole condition of demanding), the progress of a monetary-based society is limited to the extent of the desires of these supply agents, while the destinies of the demanding individuals or vassals are always subject to an agenda that puts them as expendables for the ongoing functioning of a monetary-based society.You are correct and I'll go further saying that to access most of resources in a non monetary based society would just require raw violence applied fully, so we still comeback full circle .
That may be so if violence is the only language one knows to achieve one's ends. Considering an Infinite Universe, there are infinite ways to achieve the infinite ends that exist.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote:Quote:Because demand is enforced by the agents that regulate supply, the individuals that demand are conditioned to repeat what is enforced upon them. However, because supply is fueled and feedbacked by demand, the loss of volition of the demanding individuals compromise the foundations of a monetary-based society in a roundabout way: the agents that regulate supply and enforce demand are thus indirectly subject to their own social management, and because of their social alienation and the mismatch of their social accountability (to society as a whole) and the extent of their wisdom, they are both the most impairing and the most impaired agents of a monetary-based society.
Although I understand you, I think you aren't using the words supply and demand correctly in that post, using that will imply treating "money" as a good, which it isn't. Even if you don't agree with my definition of money as debt "record" we can't simply treat money as a good because if we do so the next logical question would be - What mean of exchange do we use to trade that good ? Other than money itself.
Money can be traded by time, knowledge, attention, entertainment, and anything else.
One may just do the other way around in the mathematical-logistic perspective of money and reverse the process, trading it back for the good or service that it may have originally being traded for in the first place.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: One of the example where we can use money as a commodity would be on the foreign exchange markets which supply and demand aren't enforced by the agents that regulate supply rather by the "trade" of each individuals involved in their respective currencies intra-trading. This is where my understanding ends. Because except that my genuine question that I hope you answer to remains supply of what, demand of what ?
Supply of, first and foremost, the rules of the game, by the hierarchically topmost agents in this system.
Then, supply of the rate of flow of resources (such as oil) towards certain destinations and in-between specific places, regulated by these supply agents.
Demand of, first and foremost, resources towards certain destinations and in-between specific places.
Because the flow — and its rate — are controlled by the supply agents, they can then induce a false notion of scarcity to manipulate the value attribution of the demanding agents to best benefit them. Were these faucets, so to speak, be opened wide, the notion of scarcity would mingle and dissipate, and the glue that holds society together would be very different than it is now.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: the agents that regulate supply and enforce demand[/i] are thus indirectly subject to their own social management This is as logical as - agents that regulate "reincarnation" (STO) are subject to their own rules, they aren't free from their regulations or again we can say that they are slave to their own regulation as a great dancer is a slave to the rhythm.
That's a very interesting example you put there; it just leaves aside the decision (volition) of the dancer to move its body to whenever rhythm they desire, together with the rhythm, and not subject or vassal to it.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: mismatch of their social accountability (to society as a whole)------ Why would they be accountable to society when their goal is actually less or no accountability at all "unconstraint".
For the simple fact that they are part of a social system whether they are conscious about it or not. As bodies that inhabit the same celestial body (such as a planet or a star), they match a fitting cohabitation constitution; thus they can directly/indirectly affect the social outcome as a whole with their presence/absence, and their actions/lack thereof;
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: this follow up your next sentence which is ----- they are both the most impairing and the most impaired agents of a monetary-based society.--- No they aren't impairing to money, the proof is that money is the primordial system on which human society exist, simply put money rules the world.
The focus word here is 'society', not money. Social relations as the primal viewpoint, and not money.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: If they were impairing (or impaired by) money, money would've not been able to "rule the world". So they are effective at what they do maybe you just don't understand their goal, you can follow the trails or establish a diagnostic on their effect but you can't tell the goal of those "agents"
Maybe I don't, maybe I do. Maybe you didn't understand my input, maybe you did.
To think they 'rule' the world is to set the bar of 'ruling' at a very low position.
The amount of inefficiency of the current system management is staggering.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: NB: Although some of your conclusions were correct I found your premises and (some) semantics flawed that's why I expanded on those parts of your post. I think a truly liberal (own volition) system would be for tax payers to choose individually where their money goes, with the bitcoin for example that would be possible... The fact is you can be against wars but the same tax you pay is used to invest in, wars etc.
Because people are forced upon by a system that literally coerces them to accept a truly inefficacious political system — the so-called democracy, which is fundamentally flawed — they have no choice in several matters, and thus we come a full circle.
(08-07-2021, 09:14 AM)Desaad khaan Wrote: Now I'll argue with you that I find that type of (monetary)system much more benefiting toward progression but this is my own opinion. I am still waiting for a concrete example of an alternative system (that works).
For the heavy reference on David graeber I was just "lazy" to find heterogeneous sources.
Money itself is a tool; and could be a rather effective one, if managed appropriately. However, because of the corruption of the institutions that hold society as it is, money is used as a means to exploit and subjugate people.
Bonus:
(08-08-2021, 05:38 PM)Desaad khaan Wrote: To try and erase whoever wants to state their opinions and truth is to consequently try and erase the Creation itself Ironically this is absolutely and personally what I would've done if I was moderating my forum though (lol) but it isn't my forum
Ironic and inconsistent, considering your rather interesting wolf bet story: why apply different weights/measures when considering a space organized by others (such as this forum) and a hypothetical space organized by yourself (such as your forum), if not for the very same reason you criticized the so-called STO folks (which you seem to view as a group of lukewarm underlings)?
You criticized the forum's attempts to ostracize you as if this is something unwise (which I think it is indeed), yet you claim that this is exactly what you would do in your own place.
Such is very likely a reflection of your inner environment and how you deal with your own personal struggles: by trying to banish them elsewhere.
Isn't it clear how such attitude is naïve, considering the Unity of everything that there is?
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Dtris - 08-08-2021
(08-07-2021, 05:35 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:
Recent circumstances raise an interesting question. What does it mean for these forums to be dedicated as a service to others?
It seems to me that in practice the question is answered to say that we try not to control members and let them do as they like, but not to the point of hurting others. I find this view understandable, yet very passive towards polarisation. That is, in that universe there is no affirmative effort to support the work of the Confederation nor active support seeking of truth by STO individuals banding together nor purposeful offering of love.
It strikes me now that this passivity has met its match in our outspoken member who seeks to increase its negative polarisation by posting here, by its own words above, yet is not harming anyone directly. I don't foresee much forward motion here until the leaders of the forums take a stand for a more active approach towards service to others here because, while the guidelines are being violated, the threshold for passive permissive enforcement has not been reached.
So, maybe passivity has had its day and now its time to define active service to others as it applies to these forums? Possibly that could just be a nightmare and possibly it could be an opportunity to "grasp the needle" and bring the ship into alignment with its own internal compass. May it be so.
From the Forum Guidelines.
Quote:5) Negative Philosophies
Ours is a forum dedicated to the exploration, promotion, and living of the service-to-others polarity as defined in the Law of One material. This does not mean that discussions about the service-to-self polarity are prohibited, only that promotion of philosophies and information which:
*exhibit elements of deception and manipulative thinking
*generate fear
*reject or discourage universal love
*encourage or promote control of self or others
are considered to be not in alignment with the principles of spiritual evolution espoused by Confederation sources and are thus subject to moderation and/or removal.
I have only checked in occasionally to see why these threads are still even going. If the guidelines have been violated, mods and the CSC should step in. No reason to take too much time to think about stuff that is clearly a violation.
As to our self proclaimed STS friend, he is trolling. Whether or not he sincerely thinks he is STS or not doesn't matter. He is a classic troll. I haven't seen one on this forum before, so maybe some of the members do not know how to deal with trolls. I will help.
DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. Once you see someone is trolling just ignore them. Trolling is an attention seeking behavior and by engaging with the troll you only reward the negative behavior and give opportunity to further troll the forum.
If you want to put it in LOO terms. Send them love and light, decline the offered service as a non-service, and go do your own thing.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Aion - 08-08-2021
(08-08-2021, 09:26 PM)Dtris Wrote:(08-07-2021, 05:35 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:
Recent circumstances raise an interesting question. What does it mean for these forums to be dedicated as a service to others?
It seems to me that in practice the question is answered to say that we try not to control members and let them do as they like, but not to the point of hurting others. I find this view understandable, yet very passive towards polarisation. That is, in that universe there is no affirmative effort to support the work of the Confederation nor active support seeking of truth by STO individuals banding together nor purposeful offering of love.
It strikes me now that this passivity has met its match in our outspoken member who seeks to increase its negative polarisation by posting here, by its own words above, yet is not harming anyone directly. I don't foresee much forward motion here until the leaders of the forums take a stand for a more active approach towards service to others here because, while the guidelines are being violated, the threshold for passive permissive enforcement has not been reached.
So, maybe passivity has had its day and now its time to define active service to others as it applies to these forums? Possibly that could just be a nightmare and possibly it could be an opportunity to "grasp the needle" and bring the ship into alignment with its own internal compass. May it be so.
From the Forum Guidelines.
Quote:5) Negative Philosophies
Ours is a forum dedicated to the exploration, promotion, and living of the service-to-others polarity as defined in the Law of One material. This does not mean that discussions about the service-to-self polarity are prohibited, only that promotion of philosophies and information which:
*exhibit elements of deception and manipulative thinking
*generate fear
*reject or discourage universal love
*encourage or promote control of self or others
are considered to be not in alignment with the principles of spiritual evolution espoused by Confederation sources and are thus subject to moderation and/or removal.
I have only checked in occasionally to see why these threads are still even going. If the guidelines have been violated, mods and the CSC should step in. No reason to take too much time to think about stuff that is clearly a violation.
As to our self proclaimed STS friend, he is trolling. Whether or not he sincerely thinks he is STS or not doesn't matter. He is a classic troll. I haven't seen one on this forum before, so maybe some of the members do not know how to deal with trolls. I will help.
DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. Once you see someone is trolling just ignore them. Trolling is an attention seeking behavior and by engaging with the troll you only reward the negative behavior and give opportunity to further troll the forum.
If you want to put it in LOO terms. Send them love and light, decline the offered service as a non-service, and go do your own thing.
Thank you, I think you give a good advice on how to deal with this type of 'service'.
As I'm sure everyone will notice, DK has had their posting privileges removed due to multiple violations of the guidelines and misuse of the forum space, after receiving a written warning already.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Ohr Ein Sof - 08-09-2021
(08-08-2021, 10:46 PM)Aion Wrote:(08-08-2021, 09:26 PM)Dtris Wrote:(08-07-2021, 05:35 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:
Recent circumstances raise an interesting question. What does it mean for these forums to be dedicated as a service to others?
It seems to me that in practice the question is answered to say that we try not to control members and let them do as they like, but not to the point of hurting others. I find this view understandable, yet very passive towards polarisation. That is, in that universe there is no affirmative effort to support the work of the Confederation nor active support seeking of truth by STO individuals banding together nor purposeful offering of love.
It strikes me now that this passivity has met its match in our outspoken member who seeks to increase its negative polarisation by posting here, by its own words above, yet is not harming anyone directly. I don't foresee much forward motion here until the leaders of the forums take a stand for a more active approach towards service to others here because, while the guidelines are being violated, the threshold for passive permissive enforcement has not been reached.
So, maybe passivity has had its day and now its time to define active service to others as it applies to these forums? Possibly that could just be a nightmare and possibly it could be an opportunity to "grasp the needle" and bring the ship into alignment with its own internal compass. May it be so.
From the Forum Guidelines.
Quote:5) Negative Philosophies
Ours is a forum dedicated to the exploration, promotion, and living of the service-to-others polarity as defined in the Law of One material. This does not mean that discussions about the service-to-self polarity are prohibited, only that promotion of philosophies and information which:
*exhibit elements of deception and manipulative thinking
*generate fear
*reject or discourage universal love
*encourage or promote control of self or others
are considered to be not in alignment with the principles of spiritual evolution espoused by Confederation sources and are thus subject to moderation and/or removal.
I have only checked in occasionally to see why these threads are still even going. If the guidelines have been violated, mods and the CSC should step in. No reason to take too much time to think about stuff that is clearly a violation.
As to our self proclaimed STS friend, he is trolling. Whether or not he sincerely thinks he is STS or not doesn't matter. He is a classic troll. I haven't seen one on this forum before, so maybe some of the members do not know how to deal with trolls. I will help.
DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. Once you see someone is trolling just ignore them. Trolling is an attention seeking behavior and by engaging with the troll you only reward the negative behavior and give opportunity to further troll the forum.
If you want to put it in LOO terms. Send them love and light, decline the offered service as a non-service, and go do your own thing.
Thank you, I think you give a good advice on how to deal with this type of 'service'.
As I'm sure everyone will notice, DK has had their posting privileges removed due to multiple violations of the guidelines and misuse of the forum space, after receiving a written warning already.
Thank you so much
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Ohr Ein Sof - 08-09-2021
(08-08-2021, 05:19 PM)meadow-foreigner Wrote:(08-08-2021, 04:21 PM)Ohr Ein Sof Wrote: Why can we not ban this entity? You banned a positive person from the forum. So why can we not shut this one out? I am asking why and I am not calling for it to be banned to be very clear here.
You can try to block your eyesight from the sun and it will keep shining nonetheless.
To try to avoid catalyst isn't the purpose of incarnating in 3D, even more so at Earth, at this particular space/time juncture.
Opposition aggrandizes one's resolution to whatever path one may choose to trail.
Notwithstanding that, The Creation is One, and Service to the Creation Itself is the only type of service that there is.
I would like to reply to Desaad's post when I have more time, though with all of this fuzz I don't know if they will be able to actually read and interact with it.
There's a frequent tendency in all people to try to stick to crystallized ideas or beliefs and to react with violence whenever these beliefs are put in check. It seems to be a human tendency to be overcome.
I, for one, am enjoying a contrast of opinions and standpoints for once in this forum. We're already saturated with echo chambers in today's pseudo-diverse world.
To try and erase whoever wants to state their opinions and truth is to consequently try and erase the Creation itself — a futile endeavor — and ironically a behavior associated with the denial, suppression, and oppression, characteristics of the system that has chastised humankind for so long.
There are guidelines one must follow to be here. If you want to debate with someone who practices negative philosophies and manipulates others, there are places in which you are free to go and explore their ideologies.
Also, as you may know, because to me you seem well read, there are numerous books in which to learn more about the way these entities think and move. This way too, there is no ignorance surrounding what we know about them.
I had stated before, I do not care what they think, how they move and operate in this world. I acknowledge that darkness is the same as the light but varies only by degree therefore giving a place in creation for the darkness to be. It is their manipulative tactics that I do not appreciate and how they goad people into sharing their energy with them through talking and such (mind games). Much goes on behind the scenes that we are not aware of. Engaging with someone who claims to be polarizing negatively can be dangerous to the one whose chosen polarity if positive. If you cannot see that, I do not know what else to say. As you seem to think it is fun and exciting to exchange "ideas".
We should not take for granted that words are power because the thought preceeded the word. Our thoughts are connected to our intentions if we are an entity who is self-conscious enough to truly know ourselves. Therefore, words and word exchanges can be detrimental to the one who polarizes positive.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Dtris - 08-09-2021
(08-09-2021, 08:58 AM)Ohr Ein Sof Wrote:(08-08-2021, 05:19 PM)meadow-foreigner Wrote:(08-08-2021, 04:21 PM)Ohr Ein Sof Wrote: Why can we not ban this entity? You banned a positive person from the forum. So why can we not shut this one out? I am asking why and I am not calling for it to be banned to be very clear here.
You can try to block your eyesight from the sun and it will keep shining nonetheless.
To try to avoid catalyst isn't the purpose of incarnating in 3D, even more so at Earth, at this particular space/time juncture.
Opposition aggrandizes one's resolution to whatever path one may choose to trail.
Notwithstanding that, The Creation is One, and Service to the Creation Itself is the only type of service that there is.
I would like to reply to Desaad's post when I have more time, though with all of this fuzz I don't know if they will be able to actually read and interact with it.
There's a frequent tendency in all people to try to stick to crystallized ideas or beliefs and to react with violence whenever these beliefs are put in check. It seems to be a human tendency to be overcome.
I, for one, am enjoying a contrast of opinions and standpoints for once in this forum. We're already saturated with echo chambers in today's pseudo-diverse world.
To try and erase whoever wants to state their opinions and truth is to consequently try and erase the Creation itself — a futile endeavor — and ironically a behavior associated with the denial, suppression, and oppression, characteristics of the system that has chastised humankind for so long.
There are guidelines one must follow to be here. If you want to debate with someone who practices negative philosophies and manipulates others, there are places in which you are free to go and explore their ideologies.
Also, as you may know, because to me you seem well read, there are numerous books in which to learn more about the way these entities think and move. This way too, there is no ignorance surrounding what we know about them.
I had stated before, I do not care what they think, how they move and operate in this world. I acknowledge that darkness is the same as the light but varies only by degree therefore giving a place in creation for the darkness to be. It is their manipulative tactics that I do not appreciate and how they goad people into sharing their energy with them through talking and such (mind games). Much goes on behind the scenes that we are not aware of. Engaging with someone who claims to be polarizing negatively can be dangerous to the one whose chosen polarity if positive. If you cannot see that, I do not know what else to say. As you seem to think it is fun and exciting to exchange "ideas".
We should not take for granted that words are power because the thought preceeded the word. Our thoughts are connected to our intentions if we are an entity who is self-conscious enough to truly know ourselves. Therefore, words and word exchanges can be detrimental to the one who polarizes positive.
To add onto Ohr Ein Sof's points.
There is a difference between having a fruitful discussion wherein there is a disagreement in philosophy due to both entities having very different goals or objectives, and attempting to have a good discussion with someone who has no intentions of doing so, and instead only wants to have fun at the expense of others.
Once someone shows they are not legitimately engaging with others, the best option for oneself and the forum as a whole is to not engage that person. This doesn't even need to be about polarization.
A troll's game is to incite comments and steer discussion solely for their own amusement. This can be as juvenile as someone making inappropriate jokes and simply being insulting, or as sophisticated as someone starting as a seemingly genuine part of a discussion and slowly derailing threads to be all about themselves and whatever they steer it towards.
One of the characteristics of trolls is they seldom stop on their own, they continue as long as they get engagement, or get banned. Often they come back with another username and pretend to be a new member before starting all over again.
This is not good to allow for any community but especially one like this as it 1) encourages the same person to come back and keep trolling, and 2) encourages other trolls who see the success of one and decide to have fun for themselves. Temporary account locks, and even bans are only a superficial way to stop trolls. The only real way is to not feed them. This is up to the community members to recognize trolling behavior when you see it and disengage.
When trolling is common on a forum it decreases overall engagement and drives away people who would rather not deal with the drama. While the past week has seen many responses to this and a couple other threads, I haven't counted but it seems like overall activity everywhere else is lower. If someone wants to take the time to count this should be verifiable.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - unity100 - 08-09-2021
Why some you people are still complaining about how other people think/talk instead of using the ignore feature that totally takes that person away from your life, is a mystery to me.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - Half - 08-10-2021
I don't think that physical wealth would have much baring on harvestability.
Remember that an StS entity wants to become one of the elite. If money were a gatekeeper to that then it would be difficult for a young StS entity to look at, in the parameters of your example, Bill Gates and his near insurmountable wealth, with an attitude of overcoming that to become elite.
I think it's imperative that an StS entity have a means of deciding for itself what the definition of elite is, or at least to join a group that will guide it along the steps to becoming elite. This so that it always has before it the opportunity of becoming the MOST elite.
RE: STS entities and Wealth - jafar - 08-11-2021
(08-09-2021, 03:24 PM)Dtris Wrote: There is a difference between having a fruitful discussion wherein there is a disagreement in philosophy due to both entities having very different goals or objectives, and attempting to have a good discussion with someone who has no intentions of doing so, and instead only wants to have fun at the expense of others.
A troll's game is to incite comments and steer discussion solely for their own amusement. This can be as juvenile as someone making inappropriate jokes and simply being insulting, or as sophisticated as someone starting as a seemingly genuine part of a discussion and slowly derailing threads to be all about themselves and whatever they steer it towards.
Excellent!
You have highlighted the key characteristic of entity with dominant frequency towards STS / Separation.
It's not 'wealth' per se that's attractive, it's all about how to be 'superior' / 'winning' thus 'separated' from other self.
If it's put into 'wealth' context is how to be 'superior' to others in terms of 'hoarding wealth', thus "I" can be separated from other "Lower Ranked" self.
Once "What is STS" is understood, for those who are curious, the next is step is to probe the "How" and ultimately the "Why".
Quote:One of the characteristics of trolls is they seldom stop on their own, they continue as long as they get engagement, or get banned. Often they come back with another username and pretend to be a new member before starting all over again.
Yes there is no way to 'stop' other self who have strong wishes to experience something..
They will always 'reincarnate' again and again and again, until a desire came up within them to experience 'something else'.
This is true to any polarities, STS or STO dominant.
Quote:This is not good to allow for any community but especially one like this as it 1) encourages the same person to come back and keep trolling, and 2) encourages other trolls who see the success of one and decide to have fun for themselves. Temporary account locks, and even bans are only a superficial way to stop trolls. The only real way is to not feed them. This is up to the community members to recognize trolling behavior when you see it and disengage.
Good and bad is relative..
For those who think that it is 'bad', then yes just disengage, don't feed.
For those who think that it is 'good', then go, engage...
No right or wrong here, it just a choice...
As everything in this universe is based on 'contrast', through learning "STS" one will also gained more in depth knowledge about it's opposite "STO" and the same mechanism works the other way around.
The STS entity when engaging with STO does have the risk to be 'depolarized' and polarizing more towards STO.
The same risk goes for STO.