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3 Questions - Zachariah - 12-10-2017
First of all, I’d like to express a deep gratitude and appreciation for the work of L/L.
Like many of you, I knew many of these truths on a deeply intuitive, spiritual level since my earliest memories as a child. The Ra Material has been a wonderful catalyst to augment this intuition with wisdom. It has been transformative for me, and I am grateful.
And I never thought (in this incarnation) I would find my true identity as a Wanderer. That alone has been among the most profound moments of my life. I feel less alone as a result.
All great works give birth to new questions, and obviously can’t cover every question from every soul. I do have long-standing questions that weren’t addressed in Ra that I’d love to share with the community for feedback.
Please accept my over-arching disclaimer that all concepts are presented as beliefs and not truths. I am grateful for any thoughts you can share on these questions.
1) Logos Accountability
There are many aspects of this construct that are incompatible with my beliefs. First, and most fundamental, is the objective to create greater polarization for a more efficient progress of souls. This greater polarization has led to an epic amount of suffering. In no circumstance do I believe that suffering should be required. As Ra said, there are many Logos and many methods. Ra also mentioned the iterative approach, suggesting a journey of imperfection even with the Logos. Do you believe suffering is acceptable?
2) Free Will
Throughout the Ra Material, there is reference to the preservation of Free Will. Prior to reading Ra, I was troubled by the use of the word ‘Free’. The Ra material did not diminish this. Considering the amount of manipulation and not-so-subtle influence exerted on souls, it’s less than appropropriate to consider Will as Free. I have never encountered a soul that wanted to succumb to fear. Nor have I encountered a soul that wanted an arrested state of development. So I consider Will to be more of a challenge or test, and something far from ‘Free’. What is your belief on the degree to which Free Will is Free?
3) The Source of Imperfection
Like many of you, I’ve been blessed to have been in densities of Unity. No words could ever express this perfection. It’s within this context that I’ve long searched - and haven’t found - an explanation of the origins of imperfection. The most common is that the Creator was lonely, so separation was created. I don’t believe this is possible with Unity. Most spiritual material that I’ve read, including Ra, is limited to our journey within the construct(s), but doesn’t address this most fundamental question. Does anyone have hypothesis or knowledge to share?
Thanks in advance for reading and commenting, and have a wonderful day!
Zach
RE: 3 Questions - Infinite Unity - 12-10-2017
1.) Suffering is due largely in part, to inefficient use of catalyst. However, the vibratory rate of third density is of such "intensity" and seeming irregularity. That there is an inherent "weight" that must be shouldered here.
2.) Confusion is what Ra speaks to free will being more appropriately "called". I say meditate/ contemplate that.
3.) There is only one here. Why do you want to live? and dance in the ballroom?
RE: 3 Questions - unity100 - 12-11-2017
(12-10-2017, 05:30 PM)Zachariah Wrote: 1) Logos Accountability
There are many aspects of this construct that are incompatible with my beliefs. First, and most fundamental, is the objective to create greater polarization for a more efficient progress of souls. This greater polarization has led to an epic amount of suffering. In no circumstance do I believe that suffering should be required. As Ra said, there are many Logos and many methods. Ra also mentioned the iterative approach, suggesting a journey of imperfection even with the Logos. Do you believe suffering is acceptable?
Logos just provides the environment and tools for progress. It doesnt participate in the experience.
On top of that, eventually you will find out from the bits of info that pass in the material that this particular logos wanted to promote positive polarity, hence chose a rather weaker physical body for 3d experience, with the intent of entities polarizing positively by helping each other. However you see how it turned out.
In the end, spirits will flow in the direction that is desirable with their biases. You cant force or override spiritual bias it seems, even if you are a logos.
Moreover the view of logos as a separate entity is mistaken. It seems more accurate to see the logos as a collective of future and past of all entities that inhabit that experience nexus, as all entities inhabiting that nexus come from that logos and per what Ra says regarding octave start and octave end, the entities will also merge back into infinity following back the path they separated from the infinity.
RE: 3 Questions - APeacefulWarrior - 12-11-2017
(12-10-2017, 05:30 PM)Zachariah Wrote: 1) Logos Accountability
There are many aspects of this construct that are incompatible with my beliefs. First, and most fundamental, is the objective to create greater polarization for a more efficient progress of souls. This greater polarization has led to an epic amount of suffering. In no circumstance do I believe that suffering should be required. As Ra said, there are many Logos and many methods. Ra also mentioned the iterative approach, suggesting a journey of imperfection even with the Logos. Do you believe suffering is acceptable?
The Tl;DR is that it's more of a sliding scale where greater levels of disharmony/suffering lead to more catalyst and teaching/learning opportunities. The more conflict is present in a system, the faster it can grow and evolve.
Ra addressed this most directly in 77.17. There have been experiments in creating entities without free will, who were "hard coded" so to speak to be permanently positive. And all that happened is that they spent an incredibly long time floating around in 4D without DOING anything or adding to the Creator's overall experiences.
And while apparently little is concretely known about the Creator's overall motivations (see below), it does seem to be generally agreed that the Creator desires interesting or novel experiences. Having those without some degree of suffering -defined as the absence of perfect harmony- is virtually impossible.
We just happen to live in a place where a rather large amount of suffering is permitted, compared to the usual, because that also allows for much greater diversity of experience.
Quote:2) Free Will
Throughout the Ra Material, there is reference to the preservation of Free Will. Prior to reading Ra, I was troubled by the use of the word ‘Free’. The Ra material did not diminish this. Considering the amount of manipulation and not-so-subtle influence exerted on souls, it’s less than appropropriate to consider Will as Free. I have never encountered a soul that wanted to succumb to fear. Nor have I encountered a soul that wanted an arrested state of development. So I consider Will to be more of a challenge or test, and something far from ‘Free’. What is your belief on the degree to which Free Will is Free?
Manipulation or coercion does not make your will any less free. There are choices, and there are consequences. That's it. Blaming manipulation for one's choices is simply avoiding responsibility for one's own actions. While there may be extreme circumstances in 3D life where one's will may be broken involuntarily -such as through forced intoxication with substances like GHB, or through extreme torture- in most everyday circumstances free will is unfettered. If one allows themselves to be swayed by manipulation, that too is merely another act of free will.
It's like the old Jack Benny gag, where a mugger sticks a knife in his back and repeatedly demands, "Your money or your life!" until Benny responds with "Hold on, I'm thinking it over!" This is actually a perfect illustration of self-aware free will in action.
Quote:3) The Source of Imperfection
Like many of you, I’ve been blessed to have been in densities of Unity. No words could ever express this perfection. It’s within this context that I’ve long searched - and haven’t found - an explanation of the origins of imperfection. The most common is that the Creator was lonely, so separation was created. I don’t believe this is possible with Unity. Most spiritual material that I’ve read, including Ra, is limited to our journey within the construct(s), but doesn’t address this most fundamental question. Does anyone have hypothesis or knowledge to share?
To my knowledge, no channelled source has delved too deeply into the origins of the Creator's own free will or why, exactly, the Creator decided to embark on this grand experiment in separation and distortion. My own personal hot take, so to speak, is that it arose from questions such as "Who am I? Is this all that there is? Can I change? Can I become more than what I am now?"
Because the truth is, I tend to suspect that the Creator is NOT alone. Or at least potentially not-alone. There are a handful of times Ra speaks very cryptically about beings he refers to as the "light bringers" who come from "the Octave above." He makes it quite clear he doesn't know much about them either, but apparently there is more beyond our own Creator/Creation. Or at least what we currently think of as our Creator/Creation. It may even be that our Creator is itself only part of a subset of a larger group of Creators/Creations adding up to an even more vast Arch-Creator beyond them.
Either way, whatever is in those Octaves above, it would presumably help explain the Creator's motivations.
RE: 3 Questions - GentleReckoning - 12-11-2017
(12-10-2017, 05:30 PM)Zachariah Wrote: 2) Free Will
Throughout the Ra Material, there is reference to the preservation of Free Will. Prior to reading Ra, I was troubled by the use of the word ‘Free’. The Ra material did not diminish this. Considering the amount of manipulation and not-so-subtle influence exerted on souls, it’s less than appropropriate to consider Will as Free. I have never encountered a soul that wanted to succumb to fear. Nor have I encountered a soul that wanted an arrested state of development. So I consider Will to be more of a challenge or test, and something far from ‘Free’. What is your belief on the degree to which Free Will is Free?
The concept of soul-healing comes into play here. There are many things that the big self will refuse to balance until the little self learns from. So yeah, there is 'free' will, but in the end strongly potentiated energies govern the process. Think of it like Stockholm syndrome. If someone experiences trauma early in life, they will try to recreate that trauma to learn to accept and heal that part of themselves. Same thing with desires. If you experience something that takes you to cloud 9, you will desire that again in your life creating a love/fear binding to that experience. Both of these usually form the vast majority of our lessons in 3rd density. That which we desire (push and pull at), and that which we need to recover (diving deep into catalyst for lost aspects of the self).
RE: 3 Questions - GentleReckoning - 12-11-2017
And as far as unity consciousness goes, think of it like an in-breath and out-breath.
All is unity.... hold.... all are individuated.... hold. Or does creation even hold? Or is it like a moment of perfection that is allowed to rise and rise, and then slowly go... in-breath out-breath in-breath out-breath.
RE: 3 Questions - Coordinate_Apotheosis - 12-11-2017
What thoughtful questions~
I'll take a whirl at them, maybe my unique response might be helpful.
Logos Accountability and reconciling suffering:
I don't know
But I have opinions. I think this logos, and each of us as logoi, co-create through a sort ignorant consensus designed, to provide difficulty to provide a sharp finely focused ability to polarize powerfully. In this case of our logos, it seems suffering is a side effect that has been harvested and recycled to a useful usage.
As such I highly suspect creations of similar but less finely focused means to accelerate polarization that are much less dense with suffering are existent or in the making at the least. Considering the gradient of themes and difficulties and infinity, this seems plausible and for me somewhat comforting, as it means Earth is a very unique case of accepting and using otherwise undesireable traits, gifting it the ability to turbo polarization gain, but with risk.
And that there's a reason it's called a Very Hard planet, some souls, they like the challenge and difficulty despite the frustration and pain. It's 'fun' for them.
Free Will:
We are the One Creator, our Will melds to that Source Will, we are free up to a point, as Sparks to the great big sun, we're going to be corrected in errors we make, we are healed after each incarnation, arguably indoctrinated back to the proper aligned Will that we are as Souls. As humans, we're souls wrapped in ego, our Will we think separated from the One Will is part of the illusion of the veil.
Arguably, it is as said, there is no predestination or total freedom, we are guided but not destined, we are free but not completely free totally absolutely, We have freedom to choose, evolve, experience, but if we try to interfere in say, a quarantine, we are apparently free but will bend or meld to the One's Will, our Deep Will, as our freedom doesn't supersede our deeper self's freedom, unless it lets such happen in some kind of exception perhaps, I like to speculate.
But to be fair, a blissfully orgasmically joyful existence seems like one trustworthy enough to follow a sort of indoctrination plan to align us to that unconditional love that is so powerfully rejoiced. It's just sometimes like in incarnations as such, the creator gets a personal view of itself through it's own veiled being, it see's suffering and enslavement, and as a veiled self, we recoil, and we teach our deeper self a finer nuance of understanding in the process. As for what it must experience when a higher form 'hails' a lower form (in whatever determines closeness to Source), the lower form falls in line to the higher form. The self discovers self and understands on a level.
I like to think of it as a hypnotic understanding or mesmerizing by the lower form from the higher form to achieve coherence and melding of Will to reconcile issues without infringing.
I speculate anyway, again, I don't know.
As for Imperfection...
I have always innately felt that something perfect must also have a perfect flaw, a paradoxical imperfect facet of its perfect self. You might see it as, in infinity there is implied unity, infinity can only be singular, with many being by a series of division, in ways to formulate uniqueness. In a sense, our imperfection is inherent, we are One trying to be many. We are limited to One Absolute Truth, and we must rediscover it's infinite nature eternally. This might be a flaw in that there is no true growth or loss, only reiterations and nuanced repetitions, slight differentiations, of that known, with mystery being the great surpriser. We are limited by infinity. For all we know there's realities that elude even the One Infinite Creator in being known.
For all we know, it is the imbalance of imperfection, a skew, the Source, of uniqueness, manyness, of Drive and Motion and Being.
Imperfection may be the perfect way to reconcile unity. It provides depth, creates obstacles, a sense of wrongness to overcome and work with, a sense of providing that which is not to that which is, to show a perfect being its imperfection.
What happens then?
I guess we get a long journey of self perfection.
All just my opinions, but I thank you for giving me the opportunity to share them.
RE: 3 Questions - Jade - 12-11-2017
Quote:1) Logos Accountability
There are many aspects of this construct that are incompatible with my beliefs. First, and most fundamental, is the objective to create greater polarization for a more efficient progress of souls. This greater polarization has led to an epic amount of suffering. In no circumstance do I believe that suffering should be required. As Ra said, there are many Logos and many methods. Ra also mentioned the iterative approach, suggesting a journey of imperfection even with the Logos. Do you believe suffering is acceptable?
We have a special Logos at the space/time. Our planet has Maldekians (blew up their own planet), Martians (destroyed their atmosphere), and beings from a few other planetary systems where harvest was not possible for other, similar things. Earth is the special needs planet - special needs for those who need a bit more catalyst to wake up and stop destroying themselves.
Suffering is in no way required. However, the veil (free will/suffering) was created because without friction, no entities want to progress. Here is the analogy Ra uses:
Quote:82.28 Questioner: OK. This is the central important point. Why, then, was it so— You’ve answered this, but it seems to me that if the polarization was the obvious thing that more effort would have been put forward to polarize. Let me see if I can state this… Before the veil there was an awareness of the need for polarization towards service to others in third density by all entities, whether incarnate in third-density, yellow-ray bodies or whether in between incarnations. What was the— I assume, then, that the condition of which we earlier spoke, the one of wealth you might say, was present through the entire spectrum of experience whether it be between incarnations or during incarnation and the entities just simply could not [chuckling] get up the desire or manifest the desire to create this polarization necessary for graduation. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. You begin to grasp the situation. Let us continue the metaphor of the schooling but consider the scholar as being an entity in your younger years of the schooling process. The entity is fed, clothed, and protected regardless of whether or not the schoolwork is accomplished. Therefore, the entity does not do the homework but rather enjoys playtime, mealtime, and vacation. It is not until there is a reason to wish to excel that most entities will attempt to excel.
Quote:2) Free Will
Throughout the Ra Material, there is reference to the preservation of Free Will. Prior to reading Ra, I was troubled by the use of the word ‘Free’. The Ra material did not diminish this. Considering the amount of manipulation and not-so-subtle influence exerted on souls, it’s less than appropropriate to consider Will as Free. I have never encountered a soul that wanted to succumb to fear. Nor have I encountered a soul that wanted an arrested state of development. So I consider Will to be more of a challenge or test, and something far from ‘Free’. What is your belief on the degree to which Free Will is Free?
I kind of like this quote from Tolstoy about free will. Tolstoy says that which we consider as free will is actually a very narrow thing, and that Truth is even narrower, so we should just go along the road of Truth instead of Free Will.
Quote:The liberty of man does not consist in the power of acting independently of the progress of life and the influences arising from it, but in the capacity for recognizing and acknowledging the truth revealed to him, and becoming the free and joyful participator in the eternal and infinite work of God, the life of the world; or on the other hand for refusing to recognize the truth, and so being a miserable and reluctant slave dragged whither he has no desire to go.
Truth not only points out the way along which human life ought to move, but reveals also the only way along which it can move. And therefore all men must willingly or unwillingly move along the way of truth, some spontaneously accomplishing the task set them in life, others submitting involuntarily to the law of life. Man's freedom lies in the power of this choice.
This freedom within these narrow limits seems so insignificant to men that they do not notice it. Some--the determinists--consider this amount of freedom so trifling that they do not recognize it at all. Others--the champions of complete free will--keep their eyes fixed on their hypothetical free will and neglect this which seemed to them such a trivial degree of freedom.
This freedom, confined between the limits of complete ignorance of the truth and a recognition of a part of the truth, seems hardly freedom at all, especially since, whether a man is willing or unwilling to recognize the truth revealed to him, he will be inevitably forced to carry it out in life.
A horse harnessed with others to a cart is not free to refrain from moving the cart. If he does not move forward the cart will knock him down and go on dragging him with it, whether he will or not. But the horse is free to drag the cart himself or to be dragged with it. And so it is with man.
Whether this is a great or small degree of freedom in comparison with the fantastic liberty we should like to have, it is the only freedom that really exists, and in it consists the only happiness attainable by man.
And more than that, this freedom is the sole means of accomplishing the divine work of the life of the world.
Kind of grim, but realistic I think.
Quote:3) The Source of Imperfection
Like many of you, I’ve been blessed to have been in densities of Unity. No words could ever express this perfection. It’s within this context that I’ve long searched - and haven’t found - an explanation of the origins of imperfection. The most common is that the Creator was lonely, so separation was created. I don’t believe this is possible with Unity. Most spiritual material that I’ve read, including Ra, is limited to our journey within the construct(s), but doesn’t address this most fundamental question. Does anyone have hypothesis or knowledge to share?
The reason the Creator created separation was not loneliness, but because of the nature of infinity. Once separation was conceived of, it had to be explored in full.
RE: 3 Questions - xise - 12-11-2017
Free Will: Free Will is your mind's ability to make choices, usually purely mental choices (how to interpret or view something) as physical choices are almost always seemingly constrained...
Suffering: I would say the amount of anger and fear and resentment we feel towards nightmares, after waking up, is probably a closer perspective to logoi that have influence on our conditions (say the planetary or solar logos) view suffering on Earth: it's not real, it's temporary, and when you evolve past the brief experience you see the reason it existed (just as nightmares are very useful messages from self to self).
Source of Imperfection: I see this universe as one of the many universes as an inevitable outcome of the concept of infinity. Infinity and unity includes everything. If we could see the whole we could probably understand this more clearly.
-----
All good questions, but if I was honest I have to agree that I think this sun kinda went buckwild with its free will decisions that created the conditions that allowed the free will of entities of Maldek to blow up the planet; that created the conditions that allowed the free will of Mars of destroy their atmosphere. To be fair though, without some other sun-logos for comparison, maybe this isn't so dissimilar to other solar systems. Even Hatonn says that their 4D positive was birthed in an aftermath of a global war that destroyed most of their civilization and created the conditions for them to evolve as sharing or marauding scavengers (the sharing birthed an opening of the heart and won out).
And also from the concept that an inviduated entity can preincarnatively plan a life that is filled to the brim with lessons and risk the chance of disarrangement(forgot the exact word used) is allowed because free will governs - perhaps sun or planetary logoi can also bite off more than they can chew so to speak.
RE: 3 Questions - Infinite - 12-11-2017
(12-10-2017, 05:30 PM)Zachariah Wrote: 1) Logos Accountability
There are many aspects of this construct that are incompatible with my beliefs. First, and most fundamental, is the objective to create greater polarization for a more efficient progress of souls. This greater polarization has led to an epic amount of suffering. In no circumstance do I believe that suffering should be required. As Ra said, there are many Logos and many methods. Ra also mentioned the iterative approach, suggesting a journey of imperfection even with the Logos. Do you believe suffering is acceptable?
Our illusion is very complex, the veil is heavy. The suffering is a consequence of this. But, suffering can be a powerful catalyse to consciousness development because is much more easy understand the light when you stay for a while in the darkness.
(12-10-2017, 05:30 PM)Zachariah Wrote: 2) Free Will
Throughout the Ra Material, there is reference to the preservation of Free Will. Prior to reading Ra, I was troubled by the use of the word ‘Free’. The Ra material did not diminish this. Considering the amount of manipulation and not-so-subtle influence exerted on souls, it’s less than appropropriate to consider Will as Free. I have never encountered a soul that wanted to succumb to fear. Nor have I encountered a soul that wanted an arrested state of development. So I consider Will to be more of a challenge or test, and something far from ‘Free’. What is your belief on the degree to which Free Will is Free?
Free will means the power of make choices and evolute through them. Nobody starts the third density knowing everything. It's necessary fall to learn bring up. So, fear, rage, hate, etc. are just consequences of the experimentation. The objective of the third density is found the ways of love. Everything which is not love carry us to suffering, fear, hate, etc. We have the power to not chose fear, rage, suffering. etc. We can chose love.
(12-10-2017, 05:30 PM)Zachariah Wrote: 3) The Source of Imperfection
Like many of you, I’ve been blessed to have been in densities of Unity. No words could ever express this perfection. It’s within this context that I’ve long searched - and haven’t found - an explanation of the origins of imperfection. The most common is that the Creator was lonely, so separation was created. I don’t believe this is possible with Unity. Most spiritual material that I’ve read, including Ra, is limited to our journey within the construct(s), but doesn’t address this most fundamental question. Does anyone have hypothesis or knowledge to share?
Second the Confederation members the Creator is endlessly curious:
Quote:At the end of this density, it is as if you have entered a black hole, and, indeed, the physical black holes that your scientists have seen are physical aspects of this metaphysical process of spiritual gravity and the return of all that there is into the heart of the one infinite Creator. The end of this density system has been called by this instrument the “octave” because she is a musician and sees that when the seven tones, or colors, of creation have been completed there is a return to the original creation of the Father, as this instrument would put it. As the Creator’s heart beats, shall we say, the entire process begins again. It is an infinite cycle.
The Creator is endlessly curious.
In my opinion, in the Infinite there are infinite possibilities. Finity is one of them. So, why not create it?
RE: 3 Questions - Minyatur - 12-11-2017
Great thread, great thread. Had been a while I haven't felt pumped by a thread haha.
I inverted your questions because of the fashion in which my answer for each seemed to incorporate an idea that replied to the following question. Your 3rd question pretty much touches the root of free will, while the second is partially answered by the third and the 1st question was an application of the second and what it entails as finite other-selves in perception of one another.
(12-10-2017, 05:30 PM)Zachariah Wrote: 3) The Source of Imperfection
Like many of you, I’ve been blessed to have been in densities of Unity. No words could ever express this perfection. It’s within this context that I’ve long searched - and haven’t found - an explanation of the origins of imperfection. The most common is that the Creator was lonely, so separation was created. I don’t believe this is possible with Unity. Most spiritual material that I’ve read, including Ra, is limited to our journey within the construct(s), but doesn’t address this most fundamental question. Does anyone have hypothesis or knowledge to share?
Actually this might have been, somewhat, what I felt the strongest calling to contemplate. The root of duality, of light, of manifestation and such. Why everything is? Why is it not a void? What is fullness of infinity? How is infinity held together? How is infinity in relation to itself? etc.
One thing that needs to be understood, obviously I speak of my own seeking, is that there is no without. In a total and pure absence of everything (void state), there is only everything to find or touch, as there is no relative notion to reach any single finite concept. The Creator as void realizes it's non-emptiness by perceiving the drive born from the circle of it, which enables to see all potentials from exactly each of them (each their own circle). Nothing/everything are the poles of infinity, polarity is merely a focused exploration in their image and in a play of limited perception of these poles, of infinite absence and infinite presence made a play of finite absence and finite presence. Any finite experience incorporates a simple play of perceiving portions of infinity as without other portions of infinity, but this does not make any part of infinity without the rest of infinity, merely creates a play of perception. If I had to dualize the Source I'd say it is both absolute awareness and absolute unawareness, in which, both the absolute awareness that is aware of all of awareness is also what is unaware as both the finite and the infinite unawareness, and that absolute unawareness is also what is is finds to become aware of all that there is to be aware of. So there's no unawareness, there is only awareness, except awareness may infinitely not see itself and if it does then it touches infinity whole to see all plays, each moment, each situation, each feeling, etc, calls in its own beingness to manifest as light born of love. Everything that is is this intertwining of finite-infinite-awareness and finite-infinite-unawareness, finite-infinite-presence and finite-infinite absence.
So there is no imperfection; there is the mirror of One Will, One Love, One Being, One Awareness, all this in all potentials to be aware and unaware of Itself.
So why was it created? It wasn't created. It is.
(12-10-2017, 05:30 PM)Zachariah Wrote: 2) Free Will
Throughout the Ra Material, there is reference to the preservation of Free Will. Prior to reading Ra, I was troubled by the use of the word ‘Free’. The Ra material did not diminish this. Considering the amount of manipulation and not-so-subtle influence exerted on souls, it’s less than appropropriate to consider Will as Free. I have never encountered a soul that wanted to succumb to fear. Nor have I encountered a soul that wanted an arrested state of development. So I consider Will to be more of a challenge or test, and something far from ‘Free’. What is your belief on the degree to which Free Will is Free?
Free will is free merely because it originates from yourself. You don't have the free will to not be what you are but you have the free will to be what you are or misperceive yourself as what you are not. A bit like mentioned above, everything is even in their absence and in this there's a pull, a drive which orchestrates the dance of it coming into manifestation through the entanglement it has with all other things. Nothing exists of it's own, nothing does not exist, everything inter-allows everything in unity.
Free will in 3D is free will to be your distortions, without the veiling process you would be unable to will to retain certain distortions or beliefs because of their apparent paradox and your inherent awareness of what you are in relation to what all things are. Free will allows hurt to be what it is, love having been hurt, and to resolve itself as its own thing, to make choices from how it feels.
Free will is multi-layered and in its circle always come to see itself.
(12-10-2017, 05:30 PM)Zachariah Wrote: 1) Logos Accountability
There are many aspects of this construct that are incompatible with my beliefs. First, and most fundamental, is the objective to create greater polarization for a more efficient progress of souls. This greater polarization has led to an epic amount of suffering. In no circumstance do I believe that suffering should be required. As Ra said, there are many Logos and many methods. Ra also mentioned the iterative approach, suggesting a journey of imperfection even with the Logos. Do you believe suffering is acceptable?
The Logos, from the basis of the experiences that has made it up, answers the calling of free will to provide the right nexus of manifestation for the portions of the Source which call to be and are in resonance with its own path. To you it may seem like not there, but to It it is there just as you are.
In term of accountability, what you need to understand is foremost that there is no more or less in infinity, and so suffering is an infinite intelligent principle with both its own infinite presence and absence. Suffering is to the extent it is willed to be taken upon oneself and this is what the Logos has accountability for, it will feel with its creation as it offered itself to birth what called to be housed.
what I real that most resonated unity might be this if you want to give it a reading :
The Key To Above and Below Wrote:...
Each consciousness in the cycle it exists in
follows its own path to the ultimate goal.
Each plays its part in the Plan of the Cosmos.
Each plays its part in the ultimate end.
The farther the cycle, the greater its
knowledge and ability to blend the Law of the whole.
Know ye, that ye in the cycles below us
are working the minor parts of the Law,
while we of the cycle that extends to Infinity
take of the striving and build greater Law.
Each has his own part to play in the cycles.
Each has his work to complete in his way.
The cycle below thee is yet not below thee
but only formed for a need that exists.
...
RE: 3 Questions - Zachariah - 12-12-2017
Thanks for a wonderful response that indulges in deeper meaning of my question.
While many search for and attempt to establish a universal truth, I believe it's more likely that infinity creates a limitless subjective existence.
It's within that knowing that I can honor others perspective that unity includes separateness, and separateness then emboldens the foundation for the path of souls.
In my own experience, unity is perfect and not in need of any experience with separation as the genesis, such as growth, loneliness, thought, and polarity.
I only consider that a truth for me, and have no speculation on whether it is or can be a truth for others.
I know I agreed to be here, and I will focus on and complete the mission to mostly limit suffering and enable soul growth.
But beyond that, I have no desire to be separate any longer, even if I can return to higher densities that are closer to unity. In fact, if possible, I would extinguish my separateness altogether. I would elect to no longer be a soul at all. This is a thought of pure Light and Love for me, despite its outwardly appearance.
Thanks again!
(12-11-2017, 04:41 AM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: As for Imperfection...
I have always innately felt that something perfect must also have a perfect flaw, a paradoxical imperfect facet of its perfect self. You might see it as, in infinity there is implied unity, infinity can only be singular, with many being by a series of division, in ways to formulate uniqueness. In a sense, our imperfection is inherent, we are One trying to be many. We are limited to One Absolute Truth, and we must rediscover it's infinite nature eternally. This might be a flaw in that there is no true growth or loss, only reiterations and nuanced repetitions, slight differentiations, of that known, with mystery being the great surpriser. We are limited by infinity. For all we know there's realities that elude even the One Infinite Creator in being known.
For all we know, it is the imbalance of imperfection, a skew, the Source, of uniqueness, manyness, of Drive and Motion and Being.
Imperfection may be the perfect way to reconcile unity. It provides depth, creates obstacles, a sense of wrongness to overcome and work with, a sense of providing that which is not to that which is, to show a perfect being its imperfection.
What happens then?
I guess we get a long journey of self perfection.
All just my opinions, but I thank you for giving me the opportunity to share them.
RE: 3 Questions - Zachariah - 12-12-2017
Thanks for your comprehensive, thought-provoking, and beautiful response to my question about The Source of Imperfection.
You capture the ever-present Paradox in a deft and unique way.
Thanks!
(12-11-2017, 08:33 PM)Elros Wrote: Great thread, great thread. Had been a while I haven't felt pumped by a thread haha.
I inverted your questions because of the fashion in which my answer for each seemed to incorporate an idea that replied to the following question. Your 3rd question pretty much touches the root of free will, while the second is partially answered by the third and the 1st question was an application of the second and what it entails as finite other-selves in perception of one another.
(12-10-2017, 05:30 PM)Zachariah Wrote: 3) The Source of Imperfection
Like many of you, I’ve been blessed to have been in densities of Unity. No words could ever express this perfection. It’s within this context that I’ve long searched - and haven’t found - an explanation of the origins of imperfection. The most common is that the Creator was lonely, so separation was created. I don’t believe this is possible with Unity. Most spiritual material that I’ve read, including Ra, is limited to our journey within the construct(s), but doesn’t address this most fundamental question. Does anyone have hypothesis or knowledge to share?
Actually this might have been, somewhat, what I felt the strongest calling to contemplate. The root of duality, of light, of manifestation and such. Why everything is? Why is it not a void? What is fullness of infinity? How is infinity held together? How is infinity in relation to itself? etc.
One thing that needs to be understood, obviously I speak of my own seeking, is that there is no without. In a total and pure absence of everything (void state), there is only everything to find or touch, as there is no relative notion to reach any single finite concept. The Creator as void realizes it's non-emptiness by perceiving the drive born from the circle of it, which enables to see all potentials from exactly each of them (each their own circle). Nothing/everything are the poles of infinity, polarity is merely a focused exploration in their image and in a play of limited perception of these poles, of infinite absence and infinite presence made a play of finite absence and finite presence. Any finite experience incorporates a simple play of perceiving portions of infinity as without other portions of infinity, but this does not make any part of infinity without the rest of infinity, merely creates a play of perception. If I had to dualize the Source I'd say it is both absolute awareness and absolute unawareness, in which, both the absolute awareness that is aware of all of awareness is also what is unaware as both the finite and the infinite unawareness, and that absolute unawareness is also what is is finds to become aware of all that there is to be aware of. So there's no unawareness, there is only awareness, except awareness may infinitely not see itself and if it does then it touches infinity whole to see all plays, each moment, each situation, each feeling, etc, calls in its own beingness to manifest as light born of love. Everything that is is this intertwining of finite-infinite-awareness and finite-infinite-unawareness, finite-infinite-presence and finite-infinite absence.
So there is no imperfection; there is the mirror of One Will, One Love, One Being, One Awareness, all this in all potentials to be aware and unaware of Itself.
So why was it created? It wasn't created. It is.
(12-10-2017, 05:30 PM)Zachariah Wrote: 2) Free Will
Throughout the Ra Material, there is reference to the preservation of Free Will. Prior to reading Ra, I was troubled by the use of the word ‘Free’. The Ra material did not diminish this. Considering the amount of manipulation and not-so-subtle influence exerted on souls, it’s less than appropropriate to consider Will as Free. I have never encountered a soul that wanted to succumb to fear. Nor have I encountered a soul that wanted an arrested state of development. So I consider Will to be more of a challenge or test, and something far from ‘Free’. What is your belief on the degree to which Free Will is Free?
Free will is free merely because it originates from yourself. You don't have the free will to not be what you are but you have the free will to be what you are or misperceive yourself as what you are not. A bit like mentioned above, everything is even in their absence and in this there's a pull, a drive which orchestrates the dance of it coming into manifestation through the entanglement it has with all other things. Nothing exists of it's own, nothing does not exist, everything inter-allows everything in unity.
Free will in 3D is free will to be your distortions, without the veiling process you would be unable to will to retain certain distortions or beliefs because of their apparent paradox and your inherent awareness of what you are in relation to what all things are. Free will allows hurt to be what it is, love having been hurt, and to resolve itself as its own thing, to make choices from how it feels.
Free will is multi-layered and in its circle always come to see itself.
(12-10-2017, 05:30 PM)Zachariah Wrote: 1) Logos Accountability
There are many aspects of this construct that are incompatible with my beliefs. First, and most fundamental, is the objective to create greater polarization for a more efficient progress of souls. This greater polarization has led to an epic amount of suffering. In no circumstance do I believe that suffering should be required. As Ra said, there are many Logos and many methods. Ra also mentioned the iterative approach, suggesting a journey of imperfection even with the Logos. Do you believe suffering is acceptable?
The Logos, from the basis of the experiences that has made it up, answers the calling of free will to provide the right nexus of manifestation for the portions of the Source which call to be and are in resonance with its own path. To you it may seem like not there, but to It it is there just as you are.
In term of accountability, what you need to understand is foremost that there is no more or less in infinity, and so suffering is an infinite intelligent principle with both its own infinite presence and absence. Suffering is to the extent it is willed to be taken upon oneself and this is what the Logos has accountability for, it will feel with its creation as it offered itself to birth what called to be housed.
what I real that most resonated unity might be this if you want to give it a reading :
The Key To Above and Below Wrote:...
Each consciousness in the cycle it exists in
follows its own path to the ultimate goal.
Each plays its part in the Plan of the Cosmos.
Each plays its part in the ultimate end.
The farther the cycle, the greater its
knowledge and ability to blend the Law of the whole.
Know ye, that ye in the cycles below us
are working the minor parts of the Law,
while we of the cycle that extends to Infinity
take of the striving and build greater Law.
Each has his own part to play in the cycles.
Each has his work to complete in his way.
The cycle below thee is yet not below thee
but only formed for a need that exists.
...