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Session 13 - "Grasping the needle" and polarization - redchartreuse - 02-28-2019
This might be seem at first a super trivial point, however I have been having another read through the Ra sessions, and came across this quote (emphasis mine):
Quote:However, the thought-forms of your people during this transition period are such that the mind/body/spirit complexes of both individual and societies are scattered throughout the spectrum instead of becoming able to grasp the needle, shall we say, and point the compass in one direction.
Although I believe the meaning is clear here in this sentence, actually the correct figure of speech here is "grasp the nettle". A quick Google search will provide more details on the phrase.
At first glance, it would seem that the channel simply had the incorrect word in her mind, perhaps misheard the phrase at some point. No biggie, right?
However the curious thing, is that Ra not only plucked out that phrase to use to make a point, but they actually built upon the misunderstanding when then referring to a compass needle.
In the context of the point they were trying to make, this would appear quite insignificant. However, in a broader sense of looking at the phenomenon of channeling in general, this would seem to confirm that- if the channel has a distorted concept in their mind- the contact might actually expand on that distorted concept, and create further confusion.
A more poignant example to consider might be the concept of "polarization" which is quite central to Ra's teaching.
To a mind which is not trained in physics or chemistry, there could be a great deal of confusion around the precise meanings of this term, or even a total unawareness that there is more than one meaning, depending upon the context.
For example- if we are talking about the polarization of an iron bar, then the term refers to all the tiny dipoles actually aligning with each other in the same direction which results in the magnetization of the iron bar, which gives it the ability to perform work.
However, if we are talking about the polarization of a battery, then the term refers to the physical separation of ionic charges which causes the battery to be able to transmit electricity.
In yet another context, that of passing light through a crystal, the term polarization refers to a selective absorption or transmission of photonic vibrations, depending on their spatial orientation.
The Ra material largely hinges upon our ability to take this particular concept of physics, and to extrapolate it into the metaphysical realm, in an attempt to help teach us what need be done within our own being in order to make graduation.
However, if the channel (or indeed the reader) is/was not in possession of sufficient clarity around the concept of polarization, or perhaps has several of the different meanings of the term conflated in their mind, then the result would be simply mumbo-jumbo and further confusion.
Unfortunately, the Questioner did not query for further instruction as to which of these meanings of the term Ra was referring to. And the channel (AFAIK) did not have the scientific training in her background to understand the nuances between different meanings of the term.
So which metaphysical extrapolation of polarization are we to take as meaningful in the context of these teachings?
Alignment of tiny dipoles?
Separation of ionic charges?
Selective absorption/transmission of photonic vibrations?
Each metaphysical interpretation would send us down a very different path....
RE: Session 13 - "Grasping the needle" and polarization - redchartreuse - 02-28-2019
To further elucidate what I am attempting to get at here, let's take each of these varied meanings of polarization, and look at where they might lead us from a metaphysical standpoint:
In the first instance- that of polarization of a material to actualize its latent magnetic properties, we might imagine a Gurdjieffian framework for spiritual growth. This would begin with the awareness that an entity is not actually an individual, but a multiplicity of beings. Thus the "I" that a typical person perceives is illusory in nature. What is really happening is that all their many sub-entities have different wills pointing in all different directions, thus resulting in a nullification of the ability to become magnetic, and perform work. Thus, the first goal, after the realization that an entity does not have a true "I" is to work toward alignment of its sub-entities to form a magnetic center within the larger entity. Over time, and bit by bit, more and more of the sub-entities accrete to this magnetic center, until sufficient polarity is formed to perform work.
In the second instance- that of a battery- we might surmise that the goal of an entity desiring of polarization to separate out the positive from the negative, accepting that which is given of the nature of its chosen polarity, and rejecting those impulses of the opposite polarity. In the case of a so-called "service to others" entity, this may cause them to reject impulses to serve the self, resulting in martyrdom or self-sacrifice for the "greater good". In the case of a so-called "service to self" entity, this could cause them to reject any impulse to assist other-selves, even if it would suit their own personal agendas, resulting in extreme isolation or solitariness.
In the third instance- that of a crystal- we might say that the "crystallization" of an entity would result in the acceptance of all impulses- whether positive or negative- but seeking to "absorb" that which is of the opposite polarity back into the heart of itself, and "radiate" out the vibrations congruent with its chosen polarity.
Clear as mud?
RE: Session 13 - "Grasping the needle" and polarization - RitaJC - 03-01-2019
Interestingly, I have no issue with the original quote whatsoever. I see such a clear image of an unsettled needle of a compass moving around it and a hand grasping it and pointing it to the North. I even feel the relief and appreciation of the needle
RE: Session 13 - "Grasping the needle" and polarization - Signifyz - 03-01-2019
Quote:19.19 ▶ Questioner: I believe we have a very, very important point here. It then seems that there is an extreme potential in this polarization the same as there is in— to make an analogy, using electricity: We have a positive and negative pole. The more you build the charge on either of these, the greater the potential difference and the greater the ability to do work, as we call it, in the physical.
This would seem to me to be the exact analogy that we have in consciousness here. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is precisely correct.
I think it correlates with all three of your given instances in some way.
RE: Session 13 - "Grasping the needle" and polarization - unity100 - 03-01-2019
(02-28-2019, 11:24 AM)redchartreuse Wrote: However, if we are talking about the polarization of a battery, then the term refers to the physical separation of ionic charges which causes the battery to be able to transmit electricity.
This analogy is the closest to the meaning used in Ra material.
Polarization of a given entity is not so different than such electrical polarization - as a device is more polarized in one direction, its potential difference, its magnetic field rises. Its similar on the planetary level. Its the same principle in polarized entities. The more polarized an entity is, the higher the push from its bottom pole towards upwards one, and the higher its energy flow goes in that direction.
The same principle immediately carries over to the society - as entities polarize in the same way, the resulting polarity of the society would be stronger. Which would carry over to the polarity and field strength of the planet.
Incidentally there is a social meaning too - as every entity polarizes in similar directions energetically, their behavior model and choices would cause them to converge in the same direction in respect to choices and social affairs - serve the people (aka help each other, cooperate etc), or compete and fight.
Polarity as such is an extremely simple principle which repeats everywhere in existence, but creates infinite refractions due to the fact that polarities of everything interact.
RE: Session 13 - "Grasping the needle" and polarization - redchartreuse - 03-01-2019
(03-01-2019, 06:51 PM)unity100 Wrote:(02-28-2019, 11:24 AM)redchartreuse Wrote: However, if we are talking about the polarization of a battery, then the term refers to the physical separation of ionic charges which causes the battery to be able to transmit electricity.
This analogy is the closest to the meaning used in Ra material.
Polarization of a given entity is not so different than such electrical polarization - as a device is more polarized in one direction, its potential difference, its magnetic field rises. Its similar on the planetary level. Its the same principle in polarized entities. The more polarized an entity is, the higher the push from its bottom pole towards upwards one, and the higher its energy flow goes in that direction.
The same principle immediately carries over to the society - as entities polarize in the same way, the resulting polarity of the society would be stronger. Which would carry over to the polarity and field strength of the planet.
Incidentally there is a social meaning too - as every entity polarizes in similar directions energetically, their behavior model and choices would cause them to converge in the same direction in respect to choices and social affairs - serve the people (aka help each other, cooperate etc), or compete and fight.
Polarity as such is an extremely simple principle which repeats everywhere in existence, but creates infinite refractions due to the fact that polarities of everything interact.
So then, if we go with the battery analogy, there must always be a net charge of zero.
Translating this back into the metaphysical aspect, it would imply that entities desiring to polarize in one direction are inextricably dependent upon those desiring to polarize in the opposite direction. So ultimately, each serves the other whether or not they are aware or willing to acknowledge it.
Hmm. Yet... Our Logos has a clear bias toward the positive polarity. How would we account for the net zero polarity?
RE: Session 13 - "Grasping the needle" and polarization - Foha - 03-02-2019
I feel that you are wanting concrete details like an engineer might tackle understanding the metaphysical, redcharteuse!
It is nice to meet you, if we haven't already.
I wanted to suggest/share one thing for absolute certain:
With how Ra commands the English language with such prose and ease when they are not a natural-born speaker, is it really any doubt that they haven't compensated for distortions in communicating in this fashion?
When English itself is fragmented and cannot represent every idea that many other languages can easily express in theirs.
When playing telephone will easily reveal the inadequacy of efficiency in human communication on this Earth, it instead makes me pause to consider that we chose this incarnation with this in mind for a reason. Are misunderstandings truly something we need to avoid in this incarnation?
Sin actually translates to "missing the mark". Yet despite how distorted people may interpret Ra's words, other entities with less evolved, and more polarity-stigmatized agendas really didn't want these messages to get out regardless. Why is that?
If what Ra says resonates with you, it isn't simply because you heard it without any distortion. I'd wager to say it is impossible for you to. However, this is compensated for, and even revisiting the Ra material for a 3rd time I walk away with new interpretations without losing the original meaning.
And here, in this reality, and in metaphysics in particular, we must accept the idea of infinite. In Hermetics, polarity is instead referred to as magnetism. How insightful of you to make the analogy!
And a common analogy Hermetics uses to illustrate this fairly in-human concept is to use the painting of male and female and their general roles in this life experience. Is a woman always less correct than a male? Nonsense. Is it more moral to be one or the other? You tell me. And yet, everyone can listen to the same musical song, tap their feet to it, but hear different messages and like it for very different reasons. Is that wrong? Are they truly different songs?
I think you ask excellent questions. It's great to be skeptical and to think critically! I commend you for having interest in this domain while remaining so scientific and logical in your approach. I have not found such a luxury to think esoterically only in a scientific manner, despite being an engineer in my frame of view. I instead realize I must walk a fine line of wisdom and ignorance. To admit even as a scientist in a physical world that my memories cannot be 100% trusted, that my history was given to me, and that I am a part of this world (and inside the machine) trying to judge it and make sense of it. Scientists have their own paradoxes to sort out, as well
I am very grateful for you to share your views. I am thankful you started this thread. I am glad you have the courage and the tenacity to put your original convictions in your first reading by the door to resume work in understanding and personal growth.
And as if I didn't say it well enough my first time: welcome! I am glad you are here and being a part of this community!
RE: Session 13 - "Grasping the needle" and polarization - Signifyz - 03-02-2019
(03-01-2019, 08:41 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: So then, if we go with the battery analogy, there must always be a net charge of zero.
Translating this back into the metaphysical aspect, it would imply that entities desiring to polarize in one direction are inextricably dependent upon those desiring to polarize in the opposite direction. So ultimately, each serves the other whether or not they are aware or willing to acknowledge it.
Hmm. Yet... Our Logos has a clear bias toward the positive polarity. How would we account for the net zero polarity?
I suppose when we deal with One Infinite Creator, we have net charge of one. Though, net zero seems to be an illusory environment which helps us to equalize with our mirrors. Also, saying that Logos has bias towards positive may help polarizing on the brink of fourth density, but might be misleading when we see it from the standpoint of sixth density.
Ra says that our Logos has bias towards kindness, which seems to be a sub-quality of compassion, i.e. the lesson of fourth density positive. It may balance out in fifth density in favor of negative polarity qualities. You may find the inkling for this in 90.21-22, specifically when Ra says "We did not state which was the more efficient path. However, you are correct in your assumption, as you are aware from having examined each path in some detail in previous querying." I encourage to read it carefully.
Positive and negative entities are surely interdependent, but I in no means suggest to worship negative entities if you polarize positive. Instead, may I suggest to gaze at your heart and to see the dynamics of qualities of your being. Listen to your inner voice and discover, what is suppressed, and what is overcherished. All is mirror of your mind and each serves One.
RE: Session 13 - "Grasping the needle" and polarization - redchartreuse - 03-03-2019
(03-02-2019, 03:39 AM)Foha Wrote: I feel that you are wanting concrete details like an engineer might tackle understanding the metaphysical, redcharteuse!
It is nice to meet you, if we haven't already.
Well, you know what "they" say... use it or lose it!
Good to (re)meet you as well! I have actually participated in this forum under another name in the past, though I don't recall a "Foha" from that time. As perhaps a point of interest, I have been criticized observed here as both overly rational at times, and overly intuitive at other times. So you know, not ever sure what to say about that except to suggest it probably has more to with the observer, than myself. 
Quote:I wanted to suggest/share one thing for absolute certain:
With how Ra commands the English language with such prose and ease when they are not a natural-born speaker, is it really any doubt that they haven't compensated for distortions in communicating in this fashion?
I cannot say I share in your certainty regarding this. They may truly not be fully aware of the situation. As they have admitted to a bias toward naive compassion, their continued presence here in this sphere suggests that it has not been fully balanced.
Quote:When English itself is fragmented and cannot represent every idea that many other languages can easily express in theirs.
Well.. yes! Just taking scientific concepts into consideration, the same term is used in different fields, and even in different branches of the same field, in different ways. As I'm sure you are aware, this poses great challenges for the interdisciplinary work that is so important for us to move forward.
Quote:When playing telephone will easily reveal the inadequacy of efficiency in human communication on this Earth, it instead makes me pause to consider that we chose this incarnation with this in mind for a reason. Are misunderstandings truly something we need to avoid in this incarnation?
It is difficult for me to answer that question, being somewhat anomalous to this place myself. At least for me, understanding often serves as a springboard into love and compassion, and not so much the other way around. But this isn't the only area in which I appear to be "wired" differently from others here.
Quote:Sin actually translates to "missing the mark."
Yes, and "repent" actually translates to "re-think." I note... it does not translate into "re-feel" and yet so much spiritual seeking in this place appears to revolve around the feeling nature. You know... all the little quips about "trusting your emotions" and "going with your gut" and "finding your bliss." And yet, even science has pretty well demonstrated to us what has ever been a staple of esoteric teachings... that thoughts precede emotion.
Change your thought, i.e. repent, and change the way you feel. Re-telling your story with a new narrative- a new frame- is the way forward from here. And, indeed, a primary focus of fourth density work.
As for the emotions, these will be as they will be. There is nothing to change, for in the eventualities of time, a being will no doubt come to feel a full 360 degree panorama of emotion around anything that is of importance to them.
The growth... the change... the evolution... comes through the acceptance of new perspectives... of taking a new thought upon a topic. And eventually, to make a triumphant return to the Original Thought.
Quote:Yet despite how distorted people may interpret Ra's words, other entities with less evolved, and more polarity-stigmatized agendas really didn't want these messages to get out regardless. Why is that?
I'm not totally convinced that they didn't. It seems more likely to me that the goal is to co-opt the messages- to detune them- and bring them just enough out of focus so that the recipients own distorted belief systems have more play in interpreting the messages in an incorrect light, thus rendering them null of any positive effect, and perhaps even turning them to the negative.
To this end, the wide dissemination of the material, thus co-opted, would serve the agenda of those seeking to spread a negative philosophy, as the wider audience it is to receive, the more likely it is to become distorted and misinterpreted. I note that the Questioner appeared to be quite concerned with the wider dissemination of the material, despite a clear admonition from Ra that this was not a helpful focus for the group.
Quote:If what Ra says resonates with you, it isn't simply because you heard it without any distortion. I'd wager to say it is impossible for you to. However, this is compensated for, and even revisiting the Ra material for a 3rd time I walk away with new interpretations without losing the original meaning.
To be honest, my first pass of this material generated more fear than anything. I was left feeling that the group was so powerless to mitigate the attacks of the "loyal opposition"- even to the point of the Questioner committing suicide- that surely any solitary being seeking the light didn't stand a chance.
Luckily, I was quite wrong. But it's taken me 20 years to fully realize that, and my so-called "sins" have not come without a hefty price.
Quote:And here, in this reality, and in metaphysics in particular, we must accept the idea of infinite. In Hermetics, polarity is instead referred to as magnetism. How insightful of you to make the analogy!
Thanks!
Quote:And a common analogy Hermetics uses to illustrate this fairly in-human concept is to use the painting of male and female and their general roles in this life experience. Is a woman always less correct than a male? Nonsense. Is it more moral to be one or the other? You tell me. And yet, everyone can listen to the same musical song, tap their feet to it, but hear different messages and like it for very different reasons. Is that wrong? Are they truly different songs?
You make a good point. And yet, the true message of the song is the message of the song as intended by its creator.
I am reminded of the music of "the one known as R. Kelly" who made a fortune singing about the manipulation of naive girls for his own sexual gratification.
As for the girls... they really liked the beat. It was, as they say, "something you can dance to." That is, if you call dry humping strangers while standing... dancing.
(It's really not that funny, but I didn't find an emoji to express "disgusted while amused")Quote:I think you ask excellent questions. It's great to be skeptical and to think critically! I commend you for having interest in this domain while remaining so scientific and logical in your approach. I have not found such a luxury to think esoterically only in a scientific manner, despite being an engineer in my frame of view. I instead realize I must walk a fine line of wisdom and ignorance. To admit even as a scientist in a physical world that my memories cannot be 100% trusted, that my history was given to me, and that I am a part of this world (and inside the machine) trying to judge it and make sense of it. Scientists have their own paradoxes to sort out, as well
You know, I've come across more than one treatment of this material by those who would consider themselves skeptics, and the treatment is quite shallow at best.
To my read, one of the most fascinating concepts shared is that of the Creator as scientist. And while certainly also more than a scientist, the idea that a creation begins with a proposition.. a "what if"... is, at least to me, one of the most enlightening things about it.
It's too bad that scientists appear to be so focused on denouncing the "old bearded white man throwing thunderbolts down from the sky" version of the Creator, that they fail to seek out more eloquent descriptions.
Well.. there is you.
But you appear to be another anomaly. Quote:I am very grateful for you to share your views. I am thankful you started this thread. I am glad you have the courage and the tenacity to put your original convictions in your first reading by the door to resume work in understanding and personal growth.
And as if I didn't say it well enough my first time: welcome! I am glad you are here and being a part of this community!
Well thanks again! I look forward to further glimpses into your perspective regarding the material.
RE: Session 13 - "Grasping the needle" and polarization - redchartreuse - 03-03-2019
(03-02-2019, 09:00 AM)Signifyz Wrote:(03-01-2019, 08:41 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: So then, if we go with the battery analogy, there must always be a net charge of zero.
Translating this back into the metaphysical aspect, it would imply that entities desiring to polarize in one direction are inextricably dependent upon those desiring to polarize in the opposite direction. So ultimately, each serves the other whether or not they are aware or willing to acknowledge it.
Hmm. Yet... Our Logos has a clear bias toward the positive polarity. How would we account for the net zero polarity?
I suppose when we deal with One Infinite Creator, we have net charge of one. Though, net zero seems to be an illusory environment which helps us to equalize with our mirrors. Also, saying that Logos has bias towards positive may help polarizing on the brink of fourth density, but might be misleading when we see it from the standpoint of sixth density.
Ra says that our Logos has bias towards kindness, which seems to be a sub-quality of compassion, i.e. the lesson of fourth density positive. It may balance out in fifth density in favor of negative polarity qualities. You may find the inkling for this in 90.21-22, specifically when Ra says "We did not state which was the more efficient path. However, you are correct in your assumption, as you are aware from having examined each path in some detail in previous querying." I encourage to read it carefully.
Positive and negative entities are surely interdependent, but I in no means suggest to worship negative entities if you polarize positive. Instead, may I suggest to gaze at your heart and to see the dynamics of qualities of your being. Listen to your inner voice and discover, what is suppressed, and what is overcherished. All is mirror of your mind and each serves One.
I haven't made it back to Session 90 yet, but will be sure to take a close look once I get there.
As for worship, I worship no entity. My path is not that of the devotee, and I tend to recoil at any form of idolatry. When people say "worship" I tend to hear "war ship."
RE: Session 13 - "Grasping the needle" and polarization - Signifyz - 03-03-2019
(03-03-2019, 01:42 AM)redchartreuse Wrote: As for worship, I worship no entity. My path is not that of the devotee, and I tend to recoil at any form of idolatry. When people say "worship" I tend to hear "war ship."
I felt like my last paragraph might be redundant, but decided to add it to make overall message not too dark. When will I let my feelings get over intellect?..
RE: Session 13 - "Grasping the needle" and polarization - unity100 - 03-05-2019
(03-01-2019, 08:41 PM)redchartreuse Wrote:(03-01-2019, 06:51 PM)unity100 Wrote:(02-28-2019, 11:24 AM)redchartreuse Wrote: However, if we are talking about the polarization of a battery, then the term refers to the physical separation of ionic charges which causes the battery to be able to transmit electricity.
This analogy is the closest to the meaning used in Ra material.
Polarization of a given entity is not so different than such electrical polarization - as a device is more polarized in one direction, its potential difference, its magnetic field rises. Its similar on the planetary level. Its the same principle in polarized entities. The more polarized an entity is, the higher the push from its bottom pole towards upwards one, and the higher its energy flow goes in that direction.
The same principle immediately carries over to the society - as entities polarize in the same way, the resulting polarity of the society would be stronger. Which would carry over to the polarity and field strength of the planet.
Incidentally there is a social meaning too - as every entity polarizes in similar directions energetically, their behavior model and choices would cause them to converge in the same direction in respect to choices and social affairs - serve the people (aka help each other, cooperate etc), or compete and fight.
Polarity as such is an extremely simple principle which repeats everywhere in existence, but creates infinite refractions due to the fact that polarities of everything interact.
So then, if we go with the battery analogy, there must always be a net charge of zero.
That happens at the point of infinity. Then again it is must also contain charge to be infinite, therefore again remains mysterious. But, it must also be obvious. Therefore, again, infinity ends up being totally irrelevant to any interpretation. Then again...
Quote:Translating this back into the metaphysical aspect, it would imply that entities desiring to polarize in one direction are inextricably dependent upon those desiring to polarize in the opposite direction. So ultimately, each serves the other whether or not they are aware or willing to acknowledge it.
Limited to such a context, that is true. However it does happen in between already separated positive and negative regions in existence. And the densities that inhabit them.
Quote:Hmm. Yet... Our Logos has a clear bias toward the positive polarity. How would we account for the net zero polarity?
The negative entities polarizing negatively will go to other places. There must have already materialized a negative polarized region somewhere else in existence in order to to balance this planet's positivity. Or an existing planet or entity must have become more negatively polarized.
RE: Session 13 - "Grasping the needle" and polarization - redchartreuse - 03-06-2019
(03-05-2019, 05:10 PM)unity100 Wrote: Limited to such a context, that is true. However it does happen in between already separated positive and negative regions in existence. And the densities that inhabit them.
Well in that case, the whole thing starts to appear quite humorous to me. Maybe that is a sign of me finally getting somewhere with the concept...?
I'm imagining some highly negative planet ruled by some 5D overlord who is absolutely clueless that each more heinous act perpetrated upon their minions, only results in an equally positive act taking place somewhere else in the Creation. Or... vice-versa...
Like two particles experiencing quantum entanglement. Perhaps to the limited perception of each, they appear to be "choosing" to move in this or that direction, whereas in reality their net movement is zero.
RE: Session 13 - "Grasping the needle" and polarization - Foha - 03-08-2019
I am of the opinion that any perspective is just as valid as another.
A teacher doesn't exist. Only students that want to learn together. Maybe one has good tips for another. Then maybe that student practices "teaching".
This is my perspective, and it's perfectly valid to find it completely wrong.
Just like it's valid to wonder if Ra sinned in its message through L/L Research. Or that life has no meaning other than to die.
A disgusted laugh? That's so rare and refreshing these days.