(05-19-2019, 11:54 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: Okay, before I respond to individual things in the thread, I will put on my moderator hat. Plenum and Austin are busy with other stuff this weekend.

I cleaned up this thread, kind of. It was suggested to take the whole thread offline, which still might happened. As of now, I took out the most egregious posts, and I will go back through and reread to make sure I didn't miss anything... as always, help is appreciated. It's really sad to log in to 9 moderator reports, two posts having been reported 3 times so actually a total of 13 reports, but it's great to have feedback from other forum members on what is not appropriate - because we actually do prefer a more democratic approach, we just don't get a ton of feedback usually so we have to make decisions based on what we try to understand as being in the forum's best interests.

(05-19-2019, 12:02 PM)Diana Wrote:

(05-18-2019, 08:23 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I've been a part of this community for many years now. At this point, I see a lot of the same fallacies about the Law of One posted quite often. Certain versions of these fallacies are dangerous because they are an inversion of the proper interpretation of the material, which usually ends up being a slippery slope into self service.

I think I know what you are trying to get at, but I would like to comment on the language used because I think it's misleading.

"Dangerous" is a dangerous descriptor in my opinion. I would agree with you if I were a "follower" depending on someone(thing) beyond myself to tell me what to do, but I think everyone should make their own decisions and work things out for themselves. Is there a proper interpretation of the material? If there is, which flawed human here has the correct interpretation?

(05-18-2019, 08:23 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: Basically, way too often, I see people encouraging a use of wisdom which, in its full expression, is actually closing the heart chakra. Closing the heart chakra is not wisdom!!! I feel like most people's understanding is that we get to the green ray, and it's just this overflowing mess and wisdom must tame this curse. When I come across this attitude, to me it is a lack of understanding about the green ray, and when I see that, it seems silly to encourage people to move into the blue ray. For me, interpretations of the philosophy which encourage others, whether directly or implied, to close the heart in search of wisdom should always be challenged.

I'm not sure I can articulationg this well, but here goes.

This to me is an example of too closely following words by Ra or any entity or thing outside of self. It all may be true, but if we move away from trying to fit everything into the words and language of Ra (and other entities channeled by this group about the LOO) the picture may become more clear. I don't mean to say the LOO material is not to be referenced or studied, I mean adherence to the labels can be a deterrent to simple common sense or thinking for one's self.

(05-18-2019, 08:23 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: In 4th density, when the veil drops, we will have a group mind. In the group mind, we cannot think things like, "trans people have mental illness" or "women are too weak to protect others" or "that person needs to get out of their victim mentality". There is only harmony available, which means we must let go of the thoughts and actions that bring disharmony. Until our thoughts and feelings are pure enough that others will be able to read them without repulsion, we are not ready for a fourth density social memory complex, and the lessons are of love and acceptance, not wisdom.

By wisdom I assume you mean intellect/mind? Because I think wisdom is very different from intellect/mind.

And by "group mind" I assume you mean transparency of thought and essence of self? Because I personally don't see evolving to a group ming per say. I see it more like a transparency, and magnetizing to others who are close in essence, and because of the transparency actually knowing the essence of others who are now not hiding in a private internal dialogue. You might think as one in a SMC, but that's because your resonate with the same thoughts, not because you surrender to a group mind.

I'm totally nitpicking here. But my mind can't help it.

I also don't see it as letting go of thoughts and actions that bring disharmony, because I see it more as just not judging. I don't seek to harmonize with others; I seek to harmonize with myself—like chipping away at the marble block to get to the beautiful statue within. I'm not trying to blend with others, rather I am trying to become me in my highest form, and in doing so, it follows that I harmonize with others, not the other way around.

I can see that along the way one might try to force acceptance and "fake it till you make it" which is an axiom I definitely think is efficacious. But I feel the true reality is to transform self, and in doing so one's attitude toward others transforms. So in getting to the point of transparency in 4D, in my view, it is about self-transformation not trying to blend with others. Trying to blend does not eliminate ingrained prejudices and fears, though it may help. Self-exploration and self-honesty, letting go of defenses, letting down the protective walls, and moving beyond survival needs is a more natural way, to me, to acceptance of others' paths and choices.

---

I really don't see what the big deal is about transgender people. I remember seeing a movie (the title of which I don't recall) set in Africa. There was a character driving an old station wagon around, which he painted with crazy designs, and it had curtains hanging in the windows, and I thought how cool that was. So individual and self-expressive. And I immediately saw that something like that here in the US would be judged and scoffed at, but there in the African city it looked so cool and like so much fun and freedom.

(05-19-2019, 09:59 AM)Relaxo Wrote: Cyan.. I am a WOMAN

I actually wish you well - ask Gem wolf - I mentioned that to him - I said that I don't always like a lot of what you say (or have said) because it directly attacks or threatens my rights and safety as a female person in this world... but I've felt fondness for you at times.)

I once spoke to you harshly when you were asking forum members to donate our money to you.
but I wasn't the only person who did that by the way... and other than that - I haven't been 'hateful'

just because I stand up for myself doesn't mean I wish ill towards people

I mean - come on... speedforce only needs to reread his posts to see how patronising, self aggrandising, lecturing, blunt and without diplomacy he's been since the short time he's been here. And I'm just one of quite a few people reacting to his dismissive, bossy attitude

Yet he can't handle people who reply with equal assertiveness as he uses?

total double standard


btw-
and - for full disclosure - for the forum - Cyan's reply to my pm was

Cyan Wrote:f*** off dirtbag

now THAT'S "hateful"

(05-19-2019, 12:19 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: The problem is that this is a Ra material forum, so it's not really a good point of contention to say that interpretations are adhering too strictly to the material. If people are using the material to confuse others, I prefer to use it to bring more clarity.

Quote:However dont worry we always come around. It is inevitable.

(05-19-2019, 05:59 PM)anagogy Wrote: I find people often call things "hate speech" when they don't want to engage the logic someone is putting forth.

It is easier to just silence people by labeling them, then to ask them to justify their logical axioms.

Quote:My point is, you can't always objectively know what is negative and positive, so thinking you can prune a discussion of negativity by deplatforming anyone you disagree with is narcissism in the extreme.

(05-19-2019, 12:35 AM)Cyan Wrote: Far as I know those things are not mutually exclusive, this forum was designed as a place to gather conversation about LOO and has, at least in the past, been very welcoming to STS information and has managed to integrate it beautifully such as with the hidden hand material and has only recently become reluctant to accept STS information, this to me seems a backlas.

(05-19-2019, 07:16 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: The words "deplatformed" and "fascist" seem a little dramatic to me, especially considering the actual reach of this forum, but I understand why you feel that way. The thing is, we do have an agenda here as moderators, and that is to try to cultivate an atmosphere of acceptance and service to others. If the three (or four) of us moderators agree that we need to 'deplatform' someone, well, that's what we're here to do, because we're not going to sit by and let our soft and squishy and trusting and beautiful members be treated disrespectfully. As I mentioned before, actual bans are very rare, and the removal of posts isn't very common either. 

(05-19-2019, 07:08 PM)Louisabell Wrote:

(05-19-2019, 05:59 PM)anagogy Wrote: I find people often call things "hate speech" when they don't want to engage the logic someone is putting forth.

It is easier to just silence people by labeling them, then to ask them to justify their logical axioms.

Kind of like when your arguments are dismissed due to being called a LARPer, or being told that all the womyn here just need to calm down, while having all our valid points ignored. I guess it's convenient to pull that one out when you're clearly losing the argument.

The hypocrisy here is laughable.

(05-19-2019, 07:52 PM)anagogy Wrote:

(05-19-2019, 07:16 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: The words "deplatformed" and "fascist" seem a little dramatic to me, especially considering the actual reach of this forum, but I understand why you feel that way. The thing is, we do have an agenda here as moderators, and that is to try to cultivate an atmosphere of acceptance and service to others. If the three (or four) of us moderators agree that we need to 'deplatform' someone, well, that's what we're here to do, because we're not going to sit by and let our soft and squishy and trusting and beautiful members be treated disrespectfully. As I mentioned before, actual bans are very rare, and the removal of posts isn't very common either. 

I don't think its "dramatic". There are literally people in this thread suggesting we should put new forum members on "probation" until they prove they are worthy to stay here. Or maybe we should enforce that rule about not having a thousand different bring4th accounts (cough).

When I see people intimating any kind of restriction on free speech, I will happily speak out against it, because I think it is downright service to self.

But obviously this forum isn't just about discussing green ray. This would be a very boring place if it was. I mean just look at the sheer number of subject categories. That would be absolutely silly trying to cram each and every one of those topics into "discussing green ray".

Honestly, the reason I like this place is because there isn't a TON of moderation. I just hope it stays that way.

(05-19-2019, 08:13 PM)Glow Wrote: Anagogy
The forum I participated in that did that was psychedelic forum hardly a gathering place of sts control orientated individuals. Everything from spirituality, philosophy, life and of course “experiences” were discussed in depth but the policy ensured people were there for legitimate reasons of discussion vs trying to bring about drama/catalyst to people, it also ensures people even when they disagreed they treated each other with consideration verses lashing out.

There would be disagreements polar opposite opinions but the atmosphere was one of the most reverent and peaceful I have found online.

Anyways not going to respond to the rest, I have had great discussions with you and always appreciated your imput. I won’t take anything you imply about me personally because it’s not true.

I took what speedforce said personally because obviously I didn’t do as well as I wish I had if he felt hate from me. I certainly have no hate for anyone let alone someone carrying a burden I know I would not want to carry.

Your perception about me though has no basis in reality. No hard feelings on this end we are all allowed to have distortions. In fact I doubt it’s possible not to while in 3D

(05-19-2019, 08:24 PM)anagogy Wrote:

(05-19-2019, 08:13 PM)Glow Wrote: Anagogy
The forum I participated in that did that was psychedelic forum hardly a gathering place of sts control orientated individuals. Everything from spirituality, philosophy, life and of course “experiences” were discussed in depth but the policy ensured people were there for legitimate reasons of discussion vs trying to bring about drama/catalyst to people, it also ensures people even when they disagreed they treated each other with consideration verses lashing out.

There would be disagreements polar opposite opinions but the atmosphere was one of the most reverent and peaceful I have found online.

Anyways not going to respond to the rest, I have had great discussions with you and always appreciated your imput. I won’t take anything you imply about me personally because it’s not true.

I took what speedforce said personally because obviously I didn’t do as well as I wish I had if he felt hate from me. I certainly have no hate for anyone let alone someone carrying a burden I know I would not want to carry.

Your perception about me though has no basis in reality. No hard feelings on this end we are all allowed to have distortions. In fact I doubt it’s possible not to while in 3D

I'm not sure why you are assuming that I was referring to you specifically. I was speaking generally, to everyone equally on both sides of the isle, so I'm not sure why you are taking it so personally. I wasn't accusing anyone in particular.

I'm glad you had a good experience on your psychedelic forum. Personally, I've also had experiences with forums that did such probationary requirements and I found it had very negative effect. The forums dwindled in population and eventually discontinued. It is sort of similar to states that impose lots of regulations for doing various things, like starting businesses, or building structures, because they think it will make things "better" or "safer" but all it does is just hurt the creative process which thrives in a environment of freedom (even though freedom necessarily increases the probability of danger).

But hey we're all entitled to our own opinion. Thanks for sharing. Sorry if you thought I was attacking you. Take care.

(05-19-2019, 09:02 PM)Glow Wrote: I was the first to say hate speech. I don’t know if it’s just Canada but insisting trans people are mentally ill would be an issue here. A group that has to stand against so much judgment and stigmatization it seems any added hurt would be just cruelty, intended or not. I know it would again be something I would not want to carry in an incarnation.

(05-19-2019, 07:57 PM)anagogy Wrote:

(05-19-2019, 07:08 PM)Louisabell Wrote:

(05-19-2019, 05:59 PM)anagogy Wrote: I find people often call things "hate speech" when they don't want to engage the logic someone is putting forth.

It is easier to just silence people by labeling them, then to ask them to justify their logical axioms.

Kind of like when your arguments are dismissed due to being called a LARPer, or being told that all the womyn here just need to calm down, while having all our valid points ignored. I guess it's convenient to pull that one out when you're clearly losing the argument.

The hypocrisy here is laughable.

I don't know why you think I'm endorsing that behavior. I never said I was. You're making a lot of assumptions here.

(05-19-2019, 09:27 PM)Louisabell Wrote: No I never thought you endorsed this behavior, just thought your point was defunct as this behavior is endemic. It goes by many names, and I just see a lot of bias against the use of the word hatespeech, and I have to wonder if the focus on it is because it serves a politcal agenda.

Free speech applies to everyone, including those that think something is hate speech.

(05-19-2019, 05:59 PM)anagogy Wrote: I find people often call things "hate speech" when they don't want to engage the logic someone is putting forth.

(05-19-2019, 05:59 PM)anagogy Wrote: Silencing people, like some people in this thread are suggesting admins/mods to do just makes the situation worse, and is the true representation of blockage in my opinion and seems to me very fascist. If you don't allow someone to express themselves, and then debate their ideas, you're just stifling their growth (and your own) which is the opposite of truth sharing in my opinion.

(05-19-2019, 05:59 PM)anagogy Wrote: When I see people intimating any kind of restriction on free speech, I will happily speak out against it, because I think it is downright service to self. Obviously if there is a personal attack, action is of course warranted.

(05-19-2019, 05:59 PM)anagogy Wrote: Having said that, if someone is just being unreasonable, and I'm not accusing anyone here, you can always just ignore and not engage. People always have to have the last word. I find most moderation just amounts to silencing people because you don't agree with them. It isn't acceptance, it is just controlling the situation. Obviously personal attacks have to be monitored, but as long as someone is just discussing ideas, in my opinion it should be allowed, even if you think they are "negative ideas". Oftentimes, I've seen people on this forum act like they're "nice" but it was obvious they were just using a thin veneer of positivity to disguise their own selfish manipulative tendencies. So the comments were allowed, but I found their ideas quite repugnant and negative in the extreme.

(05-19-2019, 10:27 PM)Glow Wrote: The repression of my known m/b/s self that needed to be free and accepted at least by my self was the most suicide inducing distress. Judgement from outside does not make that easier. I think that is very common in the world.

(05-19-2019, 10:27 PM)Glow Wrote: Anyways I have probably said enough over the last few day. Sorry for prattling on.

(05-19-2019, 10:27 PM)Glow Wrote: Perhaps irrelevant but from personal experience my mental illness was caused not only by pain but the most intense part was not being able to be my true self, knowing my true self would not be accepted in society, and more importantly I could not accept myself.

(05-19-2019, 10:27 PM)Glow Wrote: The repression of my known m/b/s self that needed to be free and accepted at least by my self was the most suicide inducing distress. Judgement from outside does not make that easier. I think that is very common in the world. In cases with homosexuality in the past, and trans people now, the very fact “who they know themselves to be” is called a symptom, deep breath,!that is the source of much of their “mental illness”. So saying it’s caused by illness verse trusting they are who they say further compounds the denial of that self.
Anyways I have probably said enough over the last few day. Sorry for prattling on.

(05-19-2019, 10:59 PM)anagogy Wrote: For example, this male identifies with being a Filipino woman. I'm going to be honest, despite how "politically incorrect" it is to say this, I think someone like this is severely mentally ill.

(05-19-2019, 10:59 PM)anagogy Wrote:

(05-19-2019, 10:27 PM)Glow Wrote: Perhaps irrelevant but from personal experience my mental illness was caused not only by pain but the most intense part was not being able to be my true self, knowing my true self would not be accepted in society, and more importantly I could not accept myself.

I would describe what you wrote here as a kind of mental distress (mental pain). Not being able to express who you feel you are is a mentally painful experience.

(05-19-2019, 10:27 PM)Glow Wrote: The repression of my known m/b/s self that needed to be free and accepted at least by my self was the most suicide inducing distress. Judgement from outside does not make that easier. I think that is very common in the world. In cases with homosexuality in the past, and trans people now, the very fact “who they know themselves to be” is called a symptom, deep breath,!that is the source of much of their “mental illness”. So saying it’s caused by illness verse trusting they are who they say further compounds the denial of that self.
Anyways I have probably said enough over the last few day. Sorry for prattling on.

Like I said, I think the problem is the stigma of mental illness. I think any state of mind can be a mental illness if it is causing dysfunction in your life, or chronic distress. I know some people just categorize some things as mental illness because they want to stigmatize it. And I agree that needs to stop. But I think there are a lot of situations that are mental illness and because people don't want to deal with it, they pretend like its normal. Far from being compassionate, it is actually very unloving and destructive.

Like for example, if someone had schizophrenia, would you be doing them a service to placate them and tell them that everything is normal and that they don't need medication? I have a lot of experience with schizophrenia (I'm not schizophrenic, but I've known people that were paranoid schizophrenic), and they can be downright dangerous and violent, and you can't reason with them if it is a severe case. The loving thing to do is get them help, so they don't endanger themselves or others.

But are there cases where schizophrenia isn't a mental illness? Sure. We call them shamans, psychics, and psychonauts. Those people have a similar ability to disengage from the reality you and I are experiencing right now, but the difference is they aren't being drowned by it. They have control over it.

Or if you had someone that sincerely believed they were a cat, would you be helping them by placating their delusion and feeding them raw fish and catnip and having them use a litter box? I would say not.

There are situations where people don't even realize they are suffering, even though they obviously are. Did you know there are people who feel like they're supposed to only have one leg? And they actually try to get doctors to remove one of their legs. And when doctors refuse, they try to do it themselves. Would you be helping them to placate their obvious mental illness by telling they are not mentally ill? I think that would be dangerously irresponsible.

So in regards to transgenderism (because that seems to be the popular topic in this thread for some reason), I do in fact think there are cases where that is a mental illness. I also think that there is a lot of confusion in society today where people think if you subjectively identify with being something, it changes objective reality. This is not the case. For example, this male identifies with being a Filipino woman. I'm going to be honest, despite how "politically incorrect" it is to say this, I think someone like this is severely mentally ill. I don't say that to stigmatize them, I say that because I think their need to identify with such a bizarrely specific category of physicality is rooted in some deep trauma of some kind, or deep lack of acceptance of the body/race they were born into.

But then I've met other transgender people, that I didn't feel were mentally ill, because they were not under the delusion that their subjective identity changes their objective reality of what sex they are, nor were they distressed by it. They knew the difference between subjective and objective truth. Anyway, just sharing some thoughts on the subject. There is no one right answer of course, but it is a complicated topic.

(05-20-2019, 12:11 AM)Minyatur Wrote: On a side note, human life is about being Creator living the dellusion of not being the One. Is anyone fully well in this lie of separation? Cut off from the Unity of what we really are? Probably not, but Unity is not an end and instead where all separation begins and is signified. Someone that thinks they are a cat isn't much more delluded than someone that thinks they are a separate individual that's not the rest of everything. The material plain describes everything in our reality, from its very first distortion, as illusion. So maybe, just maybe, actually helping someone feel better is not about shattering what they believe but responding to what led them to cling to that thing, like of lack of being accepted in what they feel for example.

(05-18-2019, 08:23 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:

Quote:To the student of the balancing process we may suggest that the most stringent honesty be applied. As compassion is perceived it is suggested that, in balancing, this perception be analyzed. It may take many, many essays into compassion before true universal love is the product of the attempted opening and crystallization of this all-important springboard energy center. Thus the student may discover many other components to what may seem to be all-embracing love. Each of these components may be balanced and accepted as part of the self and as transitional material as the entity’s seat of learn/teaching moves ever more fairly into the green ray.

Basically, way too often, I see people encouraging a use of wisdom which, in its full expression, is actually closing the heart chakra. Closing the heart chakra is not wisdom!!! I feel like most people's understanding is that we get to the green ray, and it's just this overflowing mess and wisdom must tame this curse. When I come across this attitude, to me it is a lack of understanding about the green ray, and when I see that, it seems silly to encourage people to move into the blue ray. For me, interpretations of the philosophy which encourage others, whether directly or implied, to close the heart in search of wisdom should always be challenged.

Service to self polarization is about moving into the higher chakras without the firm foundation of the green ray. So for me, encouraging a strong foundation of the green ray is basically the most important part of this philosophy. We are in a veiled and polarized third density, the whole point is to give us a choice, and to confuse us enough that the service to self path looks appealing. This is part of the illusion. The "path of wisdom" is a trap. I think we should all be on the path of compassion, until we are truly ready to move forward into the blue ray. The fact is, this planet is moving from third density to fourth density, which means that we are, as a collective, dealing with the energies of moving from third to fourth, not fourth to fifth. Of course individual entities have different balances and lessons, I'm not arguing that, but what I am arguing is that the average person who is incarnate shouldn't ignore lessons of compassion to favor lessons of wisdom. We must work on unblocking the green ray as individuals to help the collective.

In 4th density, when the veil drops, we will have a group mind. In the group mind, we cannot think things like, "trans people have mental illness" or "women are too weak to protect others" or "that person needs to get out of their victim mentality". There is only harmony available, which means we must let go of the thoughts and actions that bring disharmony. Until our thoughts and feelings are pure enough that others will be able to read them without repulsion, we are not ready for a fourth density social memory complex, and the lessons are of love and acceptance, not wisdom.

(05-18-2019, 05:24 PM)speedforce131 Wrote:

(05-18-2019, 05:14 PM)Merrick Wrote: My friend, I hope you find some peace.

I will when I stop posting here. When the LARP'ers run free and those who do not understand take over then you will miss what I brought onto the table.

Quote:Your constant claims of greatness do not impress me, and your continued insistence that you are superior to others, or beyond others, undermines the claim that you’ve gained understanding.

That is a distortion to what my real intent was. I told you these things because this is how I work. I work using truth, and in using truth, in going up against people who do not speak the truth, can there really be a true understanding, an everlasting change for the better.

Quote:It’s easy to say you’re a 5D Wanderer, but when your words and behavior run counter to the understanding a fifth density entity should have, it’s difficult to take you seriously.

How do you know what a 5th density entity is supposed to be like or not be like? 5th density aside, I am human, just like you. It is not my job to be my true 5th density self. It is my job to be ME, MYSELF because in being me, I am also playing out my true self's pre-incarnative decisions, or plan. There is a purpose for this and for everything that I do. I'm sorry to tell you that all the people I know in my life have been better off with me in it then me without it. That's the impact I've had on people.

Quote:while demanding others recognize their greatness.

I have not done so and you cannot quote me to that effect. You recognize greatness because that's what it is. I'm proud of my accomplishments. Can you walk up to Billy Ray Cyrus and tell him the same thing you told me? Would he be "demanding" of his greatness just because he's proud of his accomplishments?

(05-19-2019, 05:33 AM)speedforce131 Wrote:

(05-19-2019, 05:31 AM)Louisabell Wrote: So threatening people with demonic attack is cool here?

There's no such thing as demons. As someone who follows Law of One you should know this.

Quote:And no, I'm not exaggerating, spirtual powers that deal out revenge are NOT STO, and everyone here knows it.

I'm not doing anything. It's karma that acts on you. You know what karma is?

(05-19-2019, 06:01 AM)Louisabell Wrote:

(05-19-2019, 05:52 AM)speedforce131 Wrote:

(05-19-2019, 05:42 AM)Louisabell Wrote: Well if you do a word search for demons in the LOO then nothing comes up, but there are plenty of results for crusaders... If you call a rose by any other name...

https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/1980/1980_1207.aspx

Quote:Questioner: Is there also one known in the Bible as Satan that also lives?

There is, my brother, an entity in people’s hearts known as Satan to them. However, this entity is part of the illusion of your density. The reality or seeming reality of evil is as natural to those who dwell in your polarized density as the darkness.

There is no being known as Satan on your physical plane nor has there ever been. However, the vibrational principle from which this concept received its ancient name is a thought form which is a reality of your illusion. We wish to distinguish this from the reality of the one known as Jesus or, as we know him, Amira, who is an entity who lives and dwells in love. He is a thought form only to those who do not realize that he is a real being.

The one known as Satan is merely the shadow of evil thoughts. Given fear enough, evil thoughts can do harm, can cause fear and pain and anguish. This power is given to the Satanic principle only through the fear of the one who is feeling the difficulty.

Quote:Thank you for reminding me about my Karma, I will face my Karma with all the courage and self-ownership that I can muster.

Good luck then.

You really think you're going to win this argument with semantics? I never said anything about Satan. And before you question the demonic nature of 4th density and above crusaders, listen and learn:

Quote:55.4 ▶ Questioner: Am I to understand then— just the fact that the third-density entity on this planet, just the fact that he calls or bids an Orion Crusader is a polarizing type of action that affects both entities?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The calling mechanism is not congruent in the slightest degree with the bidding mechanism. In the calling, the entity which calls is a suppliant neophyte asking for aid in negative understanding, if you may excuse this misnomer. The Orion response increases its negative polarity as it is disseminating the negative philosophy, thereby enslaving or bidding the entity calling.

There are instances, however, when the contact becomes a contest which is prototypical of negativity. In this contest, the caller will attempt, not to ask for aid, but to demand results. Since the third-density negatively oriented harvestable entity has at its disposal an incarnative experiential nexus and since Orion Crusaders are, in a great extent, bound by the first distortion in order to progress, the Orion entity is vulnerable to such bidding if properly done. In this case, the third-density entity becomes master and the Orion Crusader becomes entrapped and can be bid. This is rare. However, when it has occurred, the Orion entity or social memory complex involved has experienced loss of negative polarity in proportion to the strength of the bidding third-density entity.