Quote:25.6 ▶ Questioner: Could you amplify the meaning of what you said by “failure to accept that which is given?”

Ra: I am Ra. At the level of time/space at which this takes place in the form of what you may call thought-war, the most accepting and loving energy would be to so love those who wished to manipulate that those entities were surrounded, engulfed, and transformed by positive energies.

This, however, being a battle of equals, the Confederation is aware that it cannot, on equal footing, allow itself to be manipulated in order to remain purely positive, for then though pure it would not be of any consequence, having been placed by the so-called powers of darkness under the heel, as you may say.

It is thus that those who deal with this thought-war must be defensive rather than accepting in order to preserve their usefulness in service to others. Thusly, they cannot accept fully what the Orion Confederation wishes to give, that being enslavement. Thusly, some polarity is lost due to this friction and both sides, if you will, must then regroup.

(06-19-2019, 06:40 AM)Infinite Unity Wrote: Two different approaches at using the same equal energy. I am sorry but sto is not greater than sts, and vice-versa. You dont polarize sto in the hopes of being more powerful, but from compassion of service.

Densities above this one still involve learning/growth. This learning/growth is induced by lessons. One of these myriad lessons is this thought war.

It does not matter which polarity you are, every entity is an apart of the all. The polarities can be summarized as general pathways of experience.

(06-19-2019, 03:57 AM)Ray711 Wrote: I think we can all agree that a completely pure STO entity would be of the mentality of complete open boarders for everyone (not just as related to country, but in regards to the entity's own house as well). There are a lot of implications for that here in 3rd density, and lots of arguments to make on both sides of the discussion as to the viability of this. However, I want to put this topic in relation to the notion that the two separate paths (STS and STO) in higher densities are just that; separate. The Confederation has gone on record saying that the two polarities "don't work well together". The implications of this in regard to the subject of immigration are big, if not downright hypocritical, because a basic motivation in the desire for strict immigration control (aside from downright xenophobic views) is the desire to keep potential individuals of an STS-like mentality away from that which one perceives as belonging to the self (of course, this viewpoint can be questioned on the grounds that one's own country also has STS individuals).

Still, Creation itself seems to be built on concepts of, shall we say, strict immigration control. The well of 4th density positive can't be poisoned with the negativity of those not sufficiently polarized STO, or so seems to be the idea.

Perhaps the important aspect of it is that polarity is relatively transient, and definitely mutable. Someone may not be "good enough" for 4th density positive at one particular point in time, but with enough time and work, anyone and everyone can potentially get there, if they so wish. This is in direct contrast with some far-right views of completely closing access into one's country to all people of any given race, nationality or religion.

On the topic of reaching absolute purity in STO, this following quote from Ra is relevant:

Quote:25.6 ▶ Questioner: Could you amplify the meaning of what you said by “failure to accept that which is given?”

Ra: I am Ra. At the level of time/space at which this takes place in the form of what you may call thought-war, the most accepting and loving energy would be to so love those who wished to manipulate that those entities were surrounded, engulfed, and transformed by positive energies.

This, however, being a battle of equals, the Confederation is aware that it cannot, on equal footing, allow itself to be manipulated in order to remain purely positive, for then though pure it would not be of any consequence, having been placed by the so-called powers of darkness under the heel, as you may say.

It is thus that those who deal with this thought-war must be defensive rather than accepting in order to preserve their usefulness in service to others. Thusly, they cannot accept fully what the Orion Confederation wishes to give, that being enslavement. Thusly, some polarity is lost due to this friction and both sides, if you will, must then regroup.

This is worrisome to me, because it implies that simply being loving is not enough to deter negativity, which is precisely the very mindset of the many people here in 3d who scoff at the notion that unconditional love will save the world. Perhaps it's different because 3d is more of an illusion, and the stakes are higher in the battle described by Ra. I'm unsure as to what to think about this, but I think it'd be interesting to open that debate.

(06-19-2019, 07:46 AM)Ray711 Wrote:

(06-19-2019, 06:40 AM)Infinite Unity Wrote: Two different approaches at using the same equal energy. I am sorry but sto is not greater than sts, and vice-versa. You dont polarize sto in the hopes of being more powerful, but from compassion of service.

Densities above this one still involve learning/growth. This learning/growth is induced by lessons. One of these myriad lessons is this thought war.

It does not matter which polarity you are, every entity is an apart of the all. The polarities can be summarized as general pathways of experience.

I think there's a point that can be made about STO being of greater importance, given that one can also make the point that STS exists solely to act as catalyst so that entities choose STO, and to make that choice all that much more meaningful (STS didn't even exist before the veil). However, I agree that STS is a valid choice, and at some level, equal to STO.

Not to become more powerful, but I think the desire to seek the Creator is arguably the greatest motivation every entity has, whether consciously or subconsciously. As such, one seeks love (or 4d), in great part, for the self's sake. I don't think there's anything bad about that, though. If one seeks love, then compassion and kindness become second nature, so both the self and others are benefited.

It's true that 4th density positive lessons involve taming the desire to fight 4th density negatives, but Ra makes it clear that the Confederation has no choice but to ask the early 4d positive social memory complexes of bellicose nature to engage in the battle, otherwise the entirety of the Confederation would be "of no consequence".

(06-19-2019, 08:00 AM)kristina Wrote: I think what is being said here is that The Confederation is rejecting enslavement by sending love as a defensive mechanism in order to reject the notion of enslavement by the Orion Cusaders. As if to say, to protect oneself from becoming subjected to being taken over by another as you may do a protective spell by sending it out so that no harm can be done to you. You would do the defensive spell to preserve your free will. By doing this, some polarity may be lost. It is as it is.
Negativity, if you will, has it's own free will and may use it as it wishes.

(06-19-2019, 10:31 AM)Infinite Wrote: It's not viable use the way of acting of higher densities entities as example for 3D entities. The context you showed is about battles between entities of an equal power. It has nothing to do with immigration questions.

(06-19-2019, 02:44 PM)kristina Wrote: 4th density positive lessons do not include taming. They include love, understanding, forgiveness and acceptance

(06-19-2019, 03:57 AM)Ray711 Wrote: This is worrisome to me, because it implies that simply being loving is not enough to deter negativity, which is precisely the very mindset of the many people here in 3d who scoff at the notion that unconditional love will save the world. Perhaps it's different because 3d is more of an illusion, and the stakes are higher in the battle described by Ra. I'm unsure as to what to think about this, but I think it'd be interesting to open that debate.

(06-19-2019, 03:57 AM)Ray711 Wrote: I think we can all agree that a completely pure STO entity would be of the mentality of complete open boarders for everyone (not just as related to country, but in regards to the entity's own house as well). There are a lot of implications for that here in 3rd density, and lots of arguments to make on both sides of the discussion as to the viability of this. However, I want to put this topic in relation to the notion that the two separate paths (STS and STO) in higher densities are just that; separate. The Confederation has gone on record saying that the two polarities "don't work well together". The implications of this in regard to the subject of immigration are big, if not downright hypocritical, because a basic motivation in the desire for strict immigration control (aside from downright xenophobic views) is the desire to keep potential individuals of an STS-like mentality away from that which one perceives as belonging to the self (of course, this viewpoint can be questioned on the grounds that one's own country also has STS individuals).

Still, Creation itself seems to be built on concepts of, shall we say, strict immigration control. The well of 4th density positive can't be poisoned with the negativity of those not sufficiently polarized STO, or so seems to be the idea.

Perhaps the important aspect of it is that polarity is relatively transient, and definitely mutable. Someone may not be "good enough" for 4th density positive at one particular point in time, but with enough time and work, anyone and everyone can potentially get there, if they so wish. This is in direct contrast with some far-right views of completely closing access into one's country to all people of any given race, nationality or religion.

On the topic of reaching absolute purity in STO, this following quote from Ra is relevant:

Quote:25.6 ▶ Questioner: Could you amplify the meaning of what you said by “failure to accept that which is given?”

Ra: I am Ra. At the level of time/space at which this takes place in the form of what you may call thought-war, the most accepting and loving energy would be to so love those who wished to manipulate that those entities were surrounded, engulfed, and transformed by positive energies.

This, however, being a battle of equals, the Confederation is aware that it cannot, on equal footing, allow itself to be manipulated in order to remain purely positive, for then though pure it would not be of any consequence, having been placed by the so-called powers of darkness under the heel, as you may say.

It is thus that those who deal with this thought-war must be defensive rather than accepting in order to preserve their usefulness in service to others. Thusly, they cannot accept fully what the Orion Confederation wishes to give, that being enslavement. Thusly, some polarity is lost due to this friction and both sides, if you will, must then regroup.

This is worrisome to me, because it implies that simply being loving is not enough to deter negativity, which is precisely the very mindset of the many people here in 3d who scoff at the notion that unconditional love will save the world. Perhaps it's different because 3d is more of an illusion, and the stakes are higher in the battle described by Ra. I'm unsure as to what to think about this, but I think it'd be interesting to open that debate.

(06-19-2019, 03:57 AM)Ray711 Wrote: However, I want to put this topic in relation to the notion that the two separate paths (STS and STO) in higher densities are just that; separate. The Confederation has gone on record saying that the two polarities "don't work well together". The implications of this in regard to the subject of immigration are big, if not downright hypocritical, because a basic motivation in the desire for strict immigration control (aside from downright xenophobic views) is the desire to keep potential individuals of an STS-like mentality away from that which one perceives as belonging to the self (of course, this viewpoint can be questioned on the grounds that one's own country also has STS individuals).

Quote:42.3
Questioner: I will attempt to make an analogy. If an animal, shall I say a bull in a pen, attacks you because you have wandered into his pen, you get out of his way rapidly but you do not blame him. Or, you do not have much of an emotional response other than the fear response that he might damage you. However, if you encounter another self in his territory and he attacks you, your response may be more of an emotional nature creating physical bodily responses. Am I correct in assuming that when your response to the animal and to the other-self seeing both as the Creator and loving both and understanding their action in attacking you is the action of their free will then you have balanced yourself correctly in this area? Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is basically correct. However, the balanced entity will see in the seeming attack of an other-self the causes of this action which are, in most cases, of a more complex nature than the cause of the attack of the second-density bull as was your example. Thus this balanced entity would be open to many more opportunities for service to a third-density other-self.

Quote:Still, Creation itself seems to be built on concepts of, shall we say, strict immigration control. The well of 4th density positive can't be poisoned with the negativity of those not sufficiently polarized STO, or so seems to be the idea.

Quote:On the topic of reaching absolute purity in STO, this following quote from Ra is relevant:

Quote:25.6 ▶ Questioner: Could you amplify the meaning of what you said by “failure to accept that which is given?”

Ra: I am Ra. At the level of time/space at which this takes place in the form of what you may call thought-war, the most accepting and loving energy would be to so love those who wished to manipulate that those entities were surrounded, engulfed, and transformed by positive energies.

This, however, being a battle of equals, the Confederation is aware that it cannot, on equal footing, allow itself to be manipulated in order to remain purely positive, for then though pure it would not be of any consequence, having been placed by the so-called powers of darkness under the heel, as you may say.

It is thus that those who deal with this thought-war must be defensive rather than accepting in order to preserve their usefulness in service to others. Thusly, they cannot accept fully what the Orion Confederation wishes to give, that being enslavement. Thusly, some polarity is lost due to this friction and both sides, if you will, must then regroup.

This is worrisome to me, because it implies that simply being loving is not enough to deter negativity, which is precisely the very mindset of the many people here in 3d who scoff at the notion that unconditional love will save the world. Perhaps it's different because 3d is more of an illusion, and the stakes are higher in the battle described by Ra. I'm unsure as to what to think about this, but I think it'd be interesting to open that debate.

(06-19-2019, 07:46 AM)Ray711 Wrote:

(06-19-2019, 06:40 AM)Infinite Unity Wrote: Two different approaches at using the same equal energy. I am sorry but sto is not greater than sts, and vice-versa. You dont polarize sto in the hopes of being more powerful, but from compassion of service.

Densities above this one still involve learning/growth. This learning/growth is induced by lessons. One of these myriad lessons is this thought war.

It does not matter which polarity you are, every entity is an apart of the all. The polarities can be summarized as general pathways of experience.

I think there's a point that can be made about STO being of greater importance, given that one can also make the point that STS exists solely to act as catalyst so that entities choose STO, and to make that choice all that much more meaningful (STS didn't even exist before the veil). However, I agree that STS is a valid choice, and at some level, equal to STO.

Not to become more powerful, but I think the desire to seek the Creator is arguably the greatest motivation every entity has, whether consciously or subconsciously. As such, one seeks love (or 4d), in great part, for the self's sake. I don't think there's anything bad about that, though. If one seeks love, then compassion and kindness become second nature, so both the self and others are benefited.

It's true that 4th density positive lessons involve taming the desire to fight 4th density negatives, but Ra makes it clear that the Confederation has no choice but to ask the early 4d positive social memory complexes of bellicose nature to engage in the battle, otherwise the entirety of the Confederation would be "of no consequence".

(06-19-2019, 03:47 PM)ScottK Wrote: It would be impossible to create a truly positive society while having folks enter that society who wish to destroy it. Pretty obvious to me.

Quote:95.26 ▶ Questioner: Am I to understand, then, that there is no protection at all if the Experience of the Mind has become negative and the negative path is traveled? All random catalyst may affect the negatively polarized individual as a function of the statistical nature of the random catalyst. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. You may note some of those of your peoples which, at this space/time nexus, seek places of survival. This is due to the lack of protection when service to self is invoked.

Quote:The one called Moishe was open to impression and received the Law of One in its most simple form. However, the information became negatively oriented due to his people’s pressure to do specific physical things in the third-density planes. This left the entity open for the type of information and philosophy of a self-service nature.

(06-19-2019, 03:56 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: Like Infinite, I have issues relating the natural laws of how higher densities function with the topic of third density immigration.

(06-19-2019, 03:56 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: Is the implication that the majority of immigrants are operating on an "STS-like mentality"?

(06-19-2019, 03:56 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: then that still ignores the fact that this mentality is completely lacking in consideration of love, acceptance, and service for those who are genuinely seeking a better life

(06-19-2019, 03:56 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: But far more often do I see proponents of strict immigration simply upset about the potential undesirables

(06-19-2019, 03:56 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: There is a difference between an actual STS person and someone who has developed self-serving attitudes due to a culture or life shaped by lack of fundamental resources.

(06-19-2019, 03:56 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: love can prevail in a person despite circumstances

(06-19-2019, 06:45 PM)Ray711 Wrote: If these extracts are really from Ra and the contact with them was never compromised, it would seem that a red ray focus, the fear of death and a lack of faith would not only polarize negatively, but potentially bring to the self all sorts of tragedy and misfortune. I... don't really know what to make of this. The implications are not something that I like. I wonder what opinions you folks have about that.

(06-19-2019, 03:27 PM)Ray711 Wrote:

(06-19-2019, 08:00 AM)kristina Wrote: I think what is being said here is that The Confederation is rejecting enslavement by sending love as a defensive mechanism in order to reject the notion of enslavement by the Orion Cusaders. As if to say, to protect oneself from becoming subjected to being taken over by another as you may do a protective spell by sending it out so that no harm can be done to you. You would do the defensive spell to preserve your free will. By doing this, some polarity may be lost. It is as it is.
Negativity, if you will, has it's own free will and may use it as it wishes.

Maybe. The notion of the mere act of protecting oneself being somewhat depolarizing is certainly an interesting one. However, it is my belief based on other bits and pieces (from the Q'uo messages as well) that there is indeed a sort of literal battle between 4d entities. I'm thinking right now of Q'uo mentioning that the early 4d positive entity still carries a lot of the bias of 3d, referring to the bellicose nature and the desire to protect the loved ones at any cost.

(06-19-2019, 10:31 AM)Infinite Wrote: It's not viable use the way of acting of higher densities entities as example for 3D entities. The context you showed is about battles between entities of an equal power. It has nothing to do with immigration questions.

Not necessarily immigration. But, higher density and all, the description by Ra of this battle is very relatable to 3d issues. Is there sometimes a need or a justification (even for STO entities) to fight? To control? To resist? To put limitations into the relationships with other-selves? Is complete and absolute purity desirable? What dangers does it entail?

(06-19-2019, 02:44 PM)kristina Wrote: 4th density positive lessons do not include taming. They include love, understanding, forgiveness and acceptance

Yes. In learning those things, the need to tame the desire to fight other selves (even to protect those closest to the self) is then realized. 4d positive doesn't begin with absolute purity in its STO polarity, and there is still a distinction between the loved ones and "the others". It is when the lessons of universal and unconditional love advance when the 4d entity realizes that the STS entity is as much valuable an entity as the family, the friends, the close ones; and that to hurt even the STS entity is to hurt the all.

(06-19-2019, 08:47 PM)ScottK Wrote: What you are talking about in this thread has nothing to do with fear of death or lack of faith. It's a creation related process. You cannot create something positive while willfully introducing something that will hinder the process of creating something positive.

(06-19-2019, 09:49 PM)flofrog Wrote: But the view that there is here in 3D a situation of immigration where you cannot let 'pollution' of STS on STO seems to me really strange.

(06-19-2019, 02:44 PM)kristina Wrote: I don't understand what you mean when you say 4th density positive doesn't begin with absolute purity.

Quote:The one known as Billy Meier is anomalous in that this entity was dealing with unaffiliated entities of fourth-density level; that is, they were not affiliated with the Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator. They, and the one known as Billy, were able to offer some positively-oriented and inspirational material thanks to the catalysis of the one known as Billy.

At the same time, these entities were not entirely positive. That is to say, though of fourth-density level, they had not come through the development into a planetary social memory complex and consequently their actions were, in many ways, flawed according to that rule of non-infringement on free will that is so dear to our hearts.

(06-19-2019, 02:44 PM)kristina Wrote: I also don't understand when you say the 4th density entity realizes that the STS entity is as much value.....are you saying we won't realize that until 4th density? If so, many of us are already on board with that while in 3rd density.

(06-19-2019, 02:44 PM)kristina Wrote: I may not desire to hurt you but of you attack me with a knife I may hit you with a lamp to protect myself so that I can continue my journey but that doesn't mean I don't love you and may have to spend the rest of this incarnation balancing my actions. That would not be an STS scenario.

(06-19-2019, 02:44 PM)kristina Wrote: It seems to me that you are possibly presenting arguments and debates rather than seeking answers. Or perhaps I am reading this incorrectly and that would be great if I were.

(06-20-2019, 06:33 AM)ScottK Wrote: So, if you have a group of serial pedophiles who all want to go into an elementary school, do you let them?

(06-20-2019, 06:33 AM)ScottK Wrote: So, if you have a group of serial pedophiles who all want to go into an elementary school, do you let them?

(06-20-2019, 10:12 AM)kristina Wrote: I took your argument that you were suggesting that there is disharmony in the 4th density due to the percentage of 98% that is being quoted here. Is that what you are suggesting?

(06-20-2019, 10:27 AM)Ray711 Wrote:

(06-20-2019, 06:33 AM)ScottK Wrote: So, if you have a group of serial pedophiles who all want to go into an elementary school, do you let them?

My suggestion is simply that every action that we do sends a message to the world. If we think that it's justified being violent in order to stop entities that are prone to violence, we're sending to the world the message that violence is indeed the way to solve problems. This is not to say that violence is something to always avoid. You must do what you feel and think you have to do in each and every situation.

(06-20-2019, 07:57 AM)kristina Wrote:

(06-20-2019, 06:33 AM)ScottK Wrote: So, if you have a group of serial pedophiles who all want to go into an elementary school, do you let them?

No. You stop them from entering.

(06-20-2019, 10:49 AM)ScottK Wrote: Violence?  I'm not promoting violence.  I'm promoting shielding from darkness.  The only reason for violence is if you are forced into it.  Barriers are a really good thing in 3d, because they are not violent and prevent violence.

(06-20-2019, 12:04 PM)Ray711 Wrote:

(06-20-2019, 10:49 AM)ScottK Wrote: Violence?  I'm not promoting violence.  I'm promoting shielding from darkness.  The only reason for violence is if you are forced into it.  Barriers are a really good thing in 3d, because they are not violent and prevent violence.

Barriers are not without sacrifice either, though. They create separation between peoples and put us further away from Oneness.

EDIT: Beaten.