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Helping or violating free will? - Printable Version +- Bring4th (https://www.bring4th.org/forums) +-- Forum: Bring4th Studies (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Spiritual Development & Metaphysical Matters (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=9) +--- Thread: Helping or violating free will? (/showthread.php?tid=18302) |
Helping or violating free will? - Jeremy - 05-29-2020 I perform a specific procedure at work where I insert a long term version of an IV into patients that need long term access or central access for critical medications. Many times, these patients are intubated which hasn't bothered me until I performed a couple on patients that weren't. One was a chronically ill patient who suffered a traumatic brain injury years ago. He's awake and somewhat aware but nonverbal and just looks around. Sometimes he seems as if he's fighting back but you can't really tell. Yet his family always gives consent to whatever needs to be done to keep him alive. As I was doing the procedure, I started to feel bad about it while wondering if he really wanted to live like that. It's not his choice obviously since he has no control over anything that happens. This caused me a bit of introspection into whether I'm violating these patients free will. I try to think about the whole all is well thing but on an individual scale, all I can think about is whether they want to live or die. Maybe this was their plan all along? That doesn't bring much solace though. Am I really helping or am I a part of their continued suffering? It's a fickle thing RE: Helping or violating free will? - meadow-foreigner - 05-29-2020 (05-29-2020, 08:43 AM)Jeremy Wrote: I perform a specific procedure at work where I insert a long term version of an IV into patients that need long term access or central access for critical medications. Many times, these patients are intubated which hasn't bothered me until I performed a couple on patients that weren't. One was a chronically ill patient who suffered a traumatic brain injury years ago. He's awake and somewhat aware but nonverbal and just looks around. Sometimes he seems as if he's fighting back but you can't really tell. Yet his family always gives consent to whatever needs to be done to keep him alive. Disclaimer: I am not advocating for any particular action. You do as you think it's best. I have seen occasions in which an individual's corporeal volition has been negated. I have seen certain scenarios in which an individual's mental volition has been curbed and dulled in order to appease and to satisfy other individuals. This surely brings lots of ethical and moral discussions to the table; discussions which the vast majority of today's society doesn't seem to be precisely mature to understand and to properly discuss. Is one's volition truly perceivable; expressable? Is one's understanding of one's volition confused? What are the implications of another one ultimately trampling one's volition for whatever reason? The potential implications of acting upon another individual's volition are many. One might think one acts "in due order" when one negates another one's volition. One might think one acts "in due order" when one accepts another one's volition. While there certainly are societal conventions on what is right and what is wrong – conventions that vary throughout the ages and cultures – I do suggest that there are more optimal and less optimal ways of living. Optimality is linked to harmonics just as sub-optimality is linked to the distance in relation to a certain harmonic. RE: Helping or violating free will? - Navaratna - 05-29-2020 You're not the one making the choice it's that family. I don't know if it'd be appropriate to tell them your opinion but then again it is your free will to, I'm pretty certain it's definitely not your job to determine who's on life support or not, so you shouldn't feel guilty about it in my opinion. A lot of people doing your job wouldn't even care to question it "job is a job" so at least you have empathy for them. I listened to something interested the other day pertaining to this exact question. Law of One says free will is developed in the third density, yet Edgar Cayce also interpreted the 3rd church of revelation as the third chakra it is this church of Pergamum legends say is the point at which "god" gives humans a sword with which to make judgments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTc9IZH0Ed8 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_churches_of_Asia RE: Helping or violating free will? - flofrog - 05-29-2020 I feel like Navaratna that this is the choice of the family, but Jeremy you seem to have known this patient for some time, and I bet this feeling last time was strong. Perhaps you might just explain that feeling to his family, if your intuition tells you to ? I love meadow-foreigner's last sentence... RE: Helping or violating free will? - Navaratna - 05-29-2020 Yes Flo, but I always picture the best way to guarantee Jeremy doesn't lose his job ha. I'm picturing a nurse working in some cosmetic or gender assignment operating room offering their opinion to someone's partner waiting in the lobby about their choices.. and I'm just imagining everyone putting their palm to their face including the nurse's boss when no one asked for their opinion. He has the free will to say what he wants, but if it's appropriate in his work setting is another question entirely. RE: Helping or violating free will? - Jeremy - 05-30-2020 Yea it's definitely not my call on such matters. As of right now, I'm the only person responsible for putting in these lines during the week so I have no choice despite my reservations. I mean sure I can refuse but then I'm risking my livelihood and that can't happen. It's just something I'll have to reconcile. He's been coming to the hospital for probably a decade so I'm very familiar with him. Always cones in with pneumonia due to him having a tracheostomy in his throat to breath but somehow he always pulls through. I even talked to him this time saying things like "I don't even know if this is what you want anymore but I hope it helps in some way". His arms and legs are so contracted due to being immobile for so many years which s is where I'm at my most uncomfortable because when I have to move his arms out to place the line, I can tell it causes some pain. RE: Helping or violating free will? - Dtris - 05-30-2020 (05-30-2020, 07:58 AM)Jeremy Wrote: Yea it's definitely not my call on such matters. As of right now, I'm the only person responsible for putting in these lines during the week so I have no choice despite my reservations. I mean sure I can refuse but then I'm risking my livelihood and that can't happen. It's just something I'll have to reconcile. The universe allows for the possibility of free will being violated using power. The crux is the decision sub-consciously or consciously to use power to control someone else for your personal benefit. The use of power to try to serve another individual is probably a misguided attempt to be of service at worse. We do not have the ability to know each others thoughts yet, and all we can do is what we believe is of service and learn thru experience. Quote:78.27 Questioner: Are they accurate, or have I made mistakes? RE: Helping or violating free will? - Diana - 05-30-2020 (05-29-2020, 08:43 AM)Jeremy Wrote: I perform a specific procedure at work where I insert a long term version of an IV into patients that need long term access or central access for critical medications. Many times, these patients are intubated which hasn't bothered me until I performed a couple on patients that weren't. One was a chronically ill patient who suffered a traumatic brain injury years ago. He's awake and somewhat aware but nonverbal and just looks around. Sometimes he seems as if he's fighting back but you can't really tell. Yet his family always gives consent to whatever needs to be done to keep him alive. I have a friend who is a geriatric nurse. She works within the system, and has for many years. The way she deals with this sort of thing is to do what needs to be done according to the parameters you mention (family wishes, medical protocols, etc.), but she gives her patients huge amounts of love (which, just being around her you feel) and she also tells them it's okay to go. She calls it "her speech" and when she can feel from someone that they are struggling with letting go, she tells them it's okay. When I was in my early 20s, going to college and working midnights at a developmental center for the mentally challenged, I worked in the chronic care hospital unit. There was a man there who was profoundly mentally and physically challenged, about the size of a 3-year-old and nonverbal. His name was Richard. I would sometimes give him his tube feedings and I could see that something was wrong, that he wasn't tolerating them well, and he would stare into my eyes. So I charted it and told the nurses, and advocated for him until they paid attention, and found he had stomach cancer. I can't imagine the suffering he was in. He had been just laying in bed his whole life, being poked and prodded and fed and changed, I can only think that another human showing genuine love and caring for him might have felt like an oasis in a desert-like existence. So, my point is that just care and love are valuable. Easing someone's suffering is valuable. Because the family decision is to extend the life of the loved one, and that involves for example, intubation to create an airway, then what can be done is to do this with love and care (which I imagine you are already doing), and to acknowledge the patient. You can't control others' decisions (the family), though there is the option of sharing your observations without judgment, and hopefully help the family so their decisions are better informed. |