(05-07-2021, 08:33 AM)Ymarsakar Wrote: You cannot understand these topics until you have earned the right via the work of mastering the chakras. It is only with the distortions that you are able to make much headway, because at a higher realm, you would understand even less those topics beyond your grasp and level.

Ra 61.9 Wrote:...This is not a dimension of knowing, even subjectively, due to the lack of overview of cosmic and other inpourings which affect each and every situation which produces catalyst. The subjective acceptance of that which is at the moment and the finding of love within that moment is the greater freedom.

That known as the subjective knowing without proof is, in some degree, a poor friend for there will be anomalies no matter how much information is garnered due to the distortions which form third density.

(05-07-2021, 09:09 AM)Patrick Wrote:

(05-07-2021, 08:33 AM)Ymarsakar Wrote: You cannot understand these topics until you have earned the right via the work of mastering the chakras. It is only with the distortions that you are able to make much headway, because at a higher realm, you would understand even less those topics beyond your grasp and level.

No matter how much information is gathered from veiled third density, the result is distorted. This is done on purpose so that we finally learn to release the attempt, in faith.

This is the greater lesson in Love we are undergoing down here.

You say often that we are undergoing a test. This is it. Any attempts at subjective knowing does not give more freedom than this release in love and faith.

Ra 61.9 Wrote:...This is not a dimension of knowing, even subjectively, due to the lack of overview of cosmic and other inpourings which affect each and every situation which produces catalyst. The subjective acceptance of that which is at the moment and the finding of love within that moment is the greater freedom.

That known as the subjective knowing without proof is, in some degree, a poor friend for there will be anomalies no matter how much information is garnered due to the distortions which form third density.

(05-07-2021, 09:09 AM)Patrick Wrote:

(05-07-2021, 08:33 AM)Ymarsakar Wrote: You cannot understand these topics until you have earned the right via the work of mastering the chakras. It is only with the distortions that you are able to make much headway, because at a higher realm, you would understand even less those topics beyond your grasp and level.

No matter how much information is gathered from veiled third density, the result is distorted. This is done on purpose so that we finally learn to release the attempt, in faith.

This is the greater lesson in Love we are undergoing down here.

You say often that we are undergoing a test. This is it. Any attempts at subjective knowing does not give more freedom than this release in love and faith.

Ra 61.9 Wrote:...This is not a dimension of knowing, even subjectively, due to the lack of overview of cosmic and other inpourings which affect each and every situation which produces catalyst. The subjective acceptance of that which is at the moment and the finding of love within that moment is the greater freedom.

That known as the subjective knowing without proof is, in some degree, a poor friend for there will be anomalies no matter how much information is garnered due to the distortions which form third density.

(05-07-2021, 11:10 AM)Relax Wrote: 16.39: ...It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable...

(05-07-2021, 11:20 AM)Patrick Wrote:

(05-07-2021, 11:10 AM)Relax Wrote: 16.39: ...It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable...

<sigh>

Ra always says things better than I possibly can.  

I used so many words in my clumsy attempt when a single sentence suffice.  

"Absolutely necessary" is quite eloquently loud here.

--
By the way, this is related to the subject of this thread. When trying to know. Knowing about Earth history is included.

(05-07-2021, 11:31 PM)Relax Wrote: ...Has it felt like I was trying to 'show you up' or undermine you?...

Quote:16.38 Questioner: And then the Law of One is truly universal in creating the progression toward the eighth density or octave in all galaxies. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. There are infinite forms, infinite understandings, but the progression is one.

16.39 Questioner: I am assuming it is not necessary for an individual to understand the Law of One to go from third to fourth density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.

16.40 Questioner: That is a very important point. I used the wrong word. What I meant to say was I believe that it was not necessary for an entity to be consciously aware of the Law of One to go from third to fourth density.

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

16.41 Questioner: At what point in densities is it necessary for an entity to be consciously aware of the Law of One to progress?

Ra: I am Ra. The fifth-density harvest is of those whose vibratory distortions consciously accept the honor/duty of the Law of One. This responsibility/honor is the foundation of this vibration.

(05-08-2021, 08:29 AM)Patrick Wrote:

(05-07-2021, 11:31 PM)Relax Wrote: ...Has it felt like I was trying to 'show you up' or undermine you?...

Not at all. Thank you for reminding us that we cannot be harvested to 4D while believing we can know anything for sure (for those wishing a positive harvest).

It is a negative concept, this idea that it is possible to have access to absolute Truth.

CSC Patrick Wrote:This sandbox we are in, exists only for this purpose. To try everything we can using our tiny blind will. To experience all we wish. So that in the end you are left without any doubts that anything you do is never good enough, never perfect enough.

(05-08-2021, 09:08 AM)Sacred Fool Wrote: I wonder, dude, as I struggle to get a sense of what this kerfuffle is fuffling about, if at this stage you are being driven by what you call your tiny will or by something else?  If by something else, I wonder what that might be? 

(05-08-2021, 09:08 AM)Sacred Fool Wrote: Also...not trying to make a pretzel out of this, but...if you are so sure that you know nothing, especially nothing absolute, then pray tell, why are you so absolutely sure of your rhetorical position in this argument?

(05-08-2021, 09:08 AM)Sacred Fool Wrote: Again, I'm only asking because I can't understand it.  So, I guess Ra would approve of my ignorance?  Is that what you're saying?  Ignorance is the natural state of humanity?  Doesn't that sound a bit demeaning?  Is that really a Confederation principle?

(05-08-2021, 09:08 AM)Sacred Fool Wrote:

CSC Patrick Wrote:This sandbox we are in, exists only for this purpose. To try everything we can using our tiny blind will. To experience all we wish. So that in the end you are left without any doubts that anything you do is never good enough, never perfect enough.

In my heart, I understand the teaching differently.  The point of releasing primacy of personal will and such things when we tire of a merely 1st-2nd-3rd chakra based existence is to encourage us to reach within our very Creatrix-composed beings to discover more beautiful means of expressing and enjoying the beauty of Creation.

But maybe that's off base?  Even if it is, it sounds pretty good to moi.

Quote:80.15 ▶ Questioner: Now, the obvious only significant difference, I believe, between the positive and negative adept in using this shuttle is the way they had polarized. Is there a relationship between the archetypes of the spirit and whether the polarization is either positive or negative? Is, for instance, the positive calling through the sixteenth and the [chuckling] negative calling through the fifteenth archetype? I am very confused on these points and I imagine that question is poor or meaningless. Can you answer that?

Ra: I am Ra. It is a challenge to answer such a query, for there is some confusion in its construction. However, we shall attempt to speak upon the subject.

The adept, whether positive or negative, has the same Matrix. The Potentiator is also identical. Due to the Catalyst of each adept the adept may begin to pick and choose that into which it shall look further. The Experience of the Spirit, that which you have called the Moon, is then, by far, the more manifest of influences upon the polarity of the adept. Even the most unhappy of experiences, shall we say, which seem to occur in the Catalyst of the adept, seen from the viewpoint of the spirit, may, with the discrimination possible in shadow, be worked with until light equaling the light of brightest noon descends upon the adept and positive or service-to-others illumination has occurred. The service-to-self adept will satisfy itself with the shadows and, grasping the light of day, will toss back the head in grim laughter, preferring the darkness.

Quote:80.8 ▶ 
...
Ra: I am Ra. The power of which you speak is a spiritual power. The powers of the mind, as such, do not encompass such works as these. You may, with some fruitfulness, consider the possibilities of moonlight. You are aware that we have described the Matrix of the Spirit as a night. The moonlight, then, offers either a true picture seen in shadow or chimera and falsity. The power of falsity is deep as is the power to discern truth from shadow. The shadow of hidden things is an infinite depth in which is stored the power of the One Infinite Creator.

(05-08-2021, 09:37 AM)Patrick Wrote: Yes it's my tiny will.
I am asking the One to use me as his instrument. But we are all his instruments, so there is nothing special there.

(05-08-2021, 04:37 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:

(05-08-2021, 09:37 AM)Patrick Wrote: Yes it's my tiny will.
I am asking the One to use me as his instrument. But we are all his instruments, so there is nothing special there.

 
I'm still confused, Patrick.  Are you saying that because you ask your One true representation of divinity to use you as its instrument, this confers upon you the authority to describe exactly who can say how much about what they know?...

(05-08-2021, 05:15 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote: Okay, I see what you're saying, Patrick...and, again, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you (even though I basically feel the same way, but please don't tell anyone).  I guess I'm asking if you feel the circularity in your argumentation.  Aren't you taking a firmly absolutist stance to disallow any absolutism but your own?

(05-08-2021, 05:15 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote: Essentially, "My chosen first principle is valid and it invalidates all others."   Does that sound fair to you, Confederation channeling or not?  I mean, aren't you kinda infringing on others' free will to propound this as gospel?

(05-08-2021, 07:56 PM)Ymarsakar Wrote: "I am only saying it is maybe the only belief truly incompatible with the mission of these forums. They can still start another forum somewhere else and create a dogma based cult with a following over there if they so wish."

What does that even mean?

(05-08-2021, 09:42 PM)Patrick Wrote: And yes I am well aware of how ironic that sounds.

So if anyone can teach me how to say that there is no dogma, without making that in itself a dogma, please show me!  There has to be something in philosophy on the subject.

(05-08-2021, 10:00 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:

(05-08-2021, 09:42 PM)Patrick Wrote: And yes I am well aware of how ironic that sounds.

So if anyone can teach me how to say that there is no dogma, without making that in itself a dogma, please show me!  There has to be something in philosophy on the subject.

 
 
Alas, poor Patrick.  His passion has driven him into a box canyon from which the only escape is to go backwards relative to how he got himself stuck in there.

As I view it, the principal fallacy you are grinding into dust is that Ra, Q'uo and all the rest are excruciating clear that they wish not to be anyone's authority figure and that their views are merely their opinions and not absolute truth.  Hence, it matters not how clear Ra was about this or that insofar as any other entity chooses to believe otherwise.  And yet you have elevated this particular principle into holy writ--against the Confederation's repeatedly expressed wishes--and are using it to effectively exclude others from these forums by advising them to go away and create their own groups.

I say to thee, O Patrick, son of Quebec, repent of your arrogance and allow others the leeway to make whatever mistakes they need to make in service to the one Creatrix.  Do not fall into the fallacious temptation to banish others in order to keep yourself clean, for other is you, as seen from the green ray level of reality.

Or, to put it more simply, like dude, maybe its time to lighten up a little bit, eh?

  

(05-08-2021, 10:37 PM)Patrick Wrote:

(05-08-2021, 10:00 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:

(05-08-2021, 09:42 PM)Patrick Wrote: And yes I am well aware of how ironic that sounds.

So if anyone can teach me how to say that there is no dogma, without making that in itself a dogma, please show me!  There has to be something in philosophy on the subject.

 
 
Alas, poor Patrick.  His passion has driven him into a box canyon from which the only escape is to go backwards relative to how he got himself stuck in there.

As I view it, the principal fallacy you are grinding into dust is that Ra, Q'uo and all the rest are excruciating clear that they wish not to be anyone's authority figure and that their views are merely their opinions and not absolute truth.  Hence, it matters not how clear Ra was about this or that insofar as any other entity chooses to believe otherwise.  And yet you have elevated this particular principle into holy writ--against the Confederation's repeatedly expressed wishes--and are using it to effectively exclude others from these forums by advising them to go away and create their own groups.

I say to thee, O Patrick, son of Quebec, repent of your arrogance and allow others the leeway to make whatever mistakes they need to make in service to the one Creatrix.  Do not fall into the fallacious temptation to banish others in order to keep yourself clean, for other is you, as seen from the green ray level of reality.

Or, to put it more simply, like dude, maybe its time to lighten up a little bit, eh?

  

Well, when you say it like that...

Is there no hope of bringing harmony to bring4th?

(05-08-2021, 10:42 PM)Black Dragon Wrote:

(05-08-2021, 10:37 PM)Patrick Wrote: Well, when you say it like that...

Is there no hope of bringing harmony to bring4th?

Of course there is, it's just sometimes in each of our lives where our time would be better spent doing inner work than offering our opinions. Maybe it's time to do more inner work, and keep your responses and interactions on the forum simple, and not respond to any threads or posts about controversial topics at the moment. Give yourself a rest from that. Sometimes a bit of "closed door cultivation" or hermitage can help.