(06-14-2021, 08:32 PM)confusedseeker Wrote: Conclusions I've reached through my own research:  eating locally farmed or pasture raised/grass fed meat/dairy is about the best thing you can do for your health and for the environment.  Raw milk kefir is like liquid gold if you can find it.  

Also, veggies and carbs should be organic, you don't want to be taking in any of those pesticides (lowers testosterone and sperm count in men).  Carbs are good for energy, but don't have very many micronutrients.  Eating like our ancestors is the way to go, nothing like micronutrients and protein from quality, ethically raised animals.  Animals are a true gift to humanity.  Plant-based on a large scale kills a TON of animals too (arguably more than meat-based), so that's something else to consider....with large scale plant-based, you need a lot more land and you could easily see a shift forcing production from huge, massive, factory sized farms.  

We really need to go back to local, sustainable farming, and production of quality meat/dairy/fish; it's the best thing for our health and the health of our land.


There is also a fairly sinister agenda attached to the plant-based modes of eating that I'd rather not get into.

(06-14-2021, 05:12 PM)schubert Wrote: one of the main points is that there's a big difference between eating factory farmed meat where the animal had a hellish experience vs eating meat that's sourced from animal that lived a quality life and that you bless. she says factory farmed meat passes the suffering energy to you and keeps you in the 3rd dimension and prevents ascension, while eating meat sourced from an animal that lived a humane/natural life doesn't prevent ascension, though it does prevent accelerated stargate ascension (i personally don't know what that means). (note this is my quick interpretation, please watch the video for further details and the specific wording.)

how do you all feel about this info?

it resonates with me a lot. i no longer eat animal products myself but i have respect for people who are mindful around this topic and put in the effort to source meat/animal products from humanely treated animals. i must add that i don't think there's ever a humane way to kill an animal, killing is killing. but if the animal genuinely had a humane life or lived in the wild up to that point then that's 100x better than the dark ritual of factory farming. i'm trying to think about how i feel about people who eat factory farmed meat and realized that i can hold non-judgement and still not support it, so that's how i feel. i used to do the same thing so that humbles me, but eventually i put my foot down and aligned my actions with my values.

when we purchase something, we directly sponsor and support the actions involved in producing that product. it's as if we tug a string that tugs the producer to make those actions, because they would do it less if there was less demand (supply and demand). same goes for plant-based and supporting local farmers and sustainable farming (something i would like to do more of).

Quote:Animal slaughter is the killing of animals, usually referring to killing domestic livestock. It is estimated that each year 77 billion land animals are slaughtered for food.

Quote:Livestock is the world's largest user of land resources, with pasture and arable land dedicated to the production of feed representing almost 80% of the total agricultural land. One-third of global arable land is used to grow feed, while 26% of the Earth's ice-free terrestrial surface is used for grazing.

(06-14-2021, 09:55 PM)BrotherInWaiting Wrote: Nonetheless -- the dream ended by showing me that careful preparation by you, the end user, can still result in it being an almost neutral meal. The preparation and handling transformed the product even that late in the process... so I would assume ethically raised and slaughtered animals, cooked with care and attention, would be karmically neutral... I guess... ?

(06-15-2021, 09:59 AM)Diana Wrote: The one thing I think she didn't get exactly right is she said plants don't want to be eaten. That isn't true for all plants. Plants do want to be eaten in the case of any fruiting plants at least. They require being eaten by animals in order to propagate.

(06-16-2021, 12:09 PM)flofrog Wrote: Thank you schubert for this lovely thread...  and for your music too !!

(06-15-2021, 09:59 AM)Diana Wrote: In response to the idea that growing plants for food kills more animals than animal factory farms (and this doesn't include the over-fishing of ocean animals):

Quote:Animal slaughter is the killing of animals, usually referring to killing domestic livestock. It is estimated that each year 77 billion land animals are slaughtered for food.

Regarding land use for growing plant crops:

Quote:Livestock is the world's largest user of land resources, with pasture and arable land dedicated to the production of feed representing almost 80% of the total agricultural land. One-third of global arable land is used to grow feed, while 26% of the Earth's ice-free terrestrial surface is used for grazing.

(06-17-2021, 02:36 PM)Dtris Wrote: The situation is a bit more complicated than statistics alone can show. You certainly can not ethically and sustainably raise as many animals or plants as you can when you use factory methods. Also animals can often be grazed on land that is unsuitable for plant farming. The US would be fine using organic/non-factory methods and be able to produce enough food, but some countries rely on factory methods to feed everyone.

77 Billion land animals is only 11 animals per person on the planet, that is pretty low really.

(06-17-2021, 10:39 PM)schubert Wrote:

(06-17-2021, 02:36 PM)Dtris Wrote: The situation is a bit more complicated than statistics alone can show. You certainly can not ethically and sustainably raise as many animals or plants as you can when you use factory methods. Also animals can often be grazed on land that is unsuitable for plant farming. The US would be fine using organic/non-factory methods and be able to produce enough food, but some countries rely on factory methods to feed everyone.

77 Billion land animals is only 11 animals per person on the planet, that is pretty low really.

there is 0 requirement for factory farming animals. animals were never and are never meant to be treated like objects in a factory. that is so disgusting and anti-life. you can not just treat autonomous life as objects to be manufactured. never an excuse. it's an unnatural, detestably evil practice designed to produce terror and suffering. it's a dark ritual on par with adrenochrome harvesting. yes literally a mass dark ritual, i'm not just throwing that term out there.

77 billion is not low, it's an abomination and this is a scar in human history that people will look back at the way we look back at things like the holocaust.

as if humans aren't smart enough to develop ways feed ourselves without factory farming animals. developing countries had an abundance of food before the industrial revolution and colonization screwed them over. - https://www.worldanimalfoundation.com/advocate/farm-animals/params/post/1280003/factory-farms-cause-hunger

i don't have time to do a bunch of research but a quick search says the opposite of what you claim. "This increase in factory farming is creating huge problems. In Bangladesh, for example, which is one of the world's poorest countries, battery hen systems have become widespread. The country has massive shortages of food, many unemployed people and very little money to spare. Factory farming needs money for equipment, creates hardly any jobs and uses up much valuable plant food that could be fed to people." - https://www.worldanimalfoundation.com/advocate/farm-animals/params/post/1280003/factory-farms-cause-hunger

this article is also very informative with lots of sources: https://www.ciwf.org.uk/factory-farming/people-and-poverty/

(06-18-2021, 07:20 AM)Margan Wrote: Yes I also ponderd about this idea, and I sometimes watch documentaries where they feature organic farms who raise animals and treat them humanely, as you say, and one of the farmers also touched upon this and said "is it ok to still eat meat" and his answer was "yes as long as the animal had a good life".
And just imagine, when I saw him petting his little pigs in the wooden shed and how they were running around outside in the mud and enjoying it so much, like little children, it got me thinking how these animals actually have a quite good life. And before they get old and "rheumatic" and get their old age illnesses etc, they are killed and don't have to go thru this.....
infact I was thinking about this when my mum was suffering so much at the end of her life, so much pain and the painkillers sometimes even made it worse so that she was barely conscious.... I remember talking about it to my friend and saying "we would never let our pets be in so much pain, the vet would give them an deadly injection if the case was hopeless,  but for humans there is no other alternative"
And then I saw a documentary about a small buddhist community here in Germany, where the monks are mostly begging for their life sustenance and I was actually surprised to see they were eating meat also  and his explanation was quite interesting to me - he said, "everything we are given is a gift. Whatever people people offer us (in terms of food), we see it as a gift and we give thanks and blessings"

(06-18-2021, 07:28 AM)Dtris Wrote: I never made any claims about morality. My statement may be worded a bit confusingly. Ethically and sustainably raising animals and plants is one way of farming, factory farming is another. I did not intend to imply that factory farming is the same as raising food in an ethical or sustainable manner.

77 billion is low when there are 7 billion people. Especially if this includes animals like Quail, Duck, Chickens, and other small animals which are eaten.

Factory farming methods extend to plant production too. Rice cannot be produced on the scale needed to feed billions in two geographic regions each the same size or smaller than the US without using factory methods. The population pre industrial revolution was around 1 billion people worldwide and most people were farmers, it cannot be compared to modern food needs.

(06-18-2021, 04:21 PM)confusedseeker Wrote: Great post indeed.  Animals are a gift, and there is a reason their nutrition is absolutely craved by our digestive/biological systems (DHA, EPA, vitamin D, K2, B12), but we should always be mindful of their treatment.  

From a purely health perspective, the two biggest culprits to our decline are:  Sugar and Plant Oils/byproducts (Soy especially).

(06-19-2021, 03:42 AM)schubert Wrote:

(06-18-2021, 07:28 AM)Dtris Wrote: I never made any claims about morality. My statement may be worded a bit confusingly. Ethically and sustainably raising animals and plants is one way of farming, factory farming is another. I did not intend to imply that factory farming is the same as raising food in an ethical or sustainable manner.

77 billion is low when there are 7 billion people. Especially if this includes animals like Quail, Duck, Chickens, and other small animals which are eaten.

Factory farming methods extend to plant production too. Rice cannot be produced on the scale needed to feed billions in two geographic regions each the same size or smaller than the US without using factory methods. The population pre industrial revolution was around 1 billion people worldwide and most people were farmers, it cannot be compared to modern food needs.

i know you're just making a logical point when you say 77 billion is low when there's 7 billion people. the issue i have is how detached that sounds from the horror these animals experience. you make that statement matter-of-factly as if it's no big deal. it's a bit disturbing to be frank. to reiterate it, that's 77 billion land animals per year.. for many years. these are beings with emotional needs like love and freedom just like us. pigs for example outperform 3 year olds in cognitive tests. chickens are very smart too. animals are similar to toddlers in a lot of ways. and factory farming has them live their entire life in hell, tortured and slaughtered. so the point i'm making is i don't care about the context, 77 billion is not low, and to assert that point at all seems very detached to me.

factory farming plants is a whole other discussion that i'm not nearly as concerned about. there's key differences like how they don't have nervous systems, and are a different density of consciousness (2nd vs animals being 3rd).

(06-18-2021, 04:21 PM)confusedseeker Wrote: Great post indeed.  Animals are a gift, and there is a reason their nutrition is absolutely craved by our digestive/biological systems (DHA, EPA, vitamin D, K2, B12), but we should always be mindful of their treatment.  

From a purely health perspective, the two biggest culprits to our decline are:  Sugar and Plant Oils/byproducts (Soy especially).

you're of course entirely entitled to your viewpoint, but to add my viewpoint, animals are not 'a gift'. they are their own soul for goodness sake. it's one thing for a buddhist to literally receive a gift/food donation of meat, but it's a whole other thing to say 'animals are a gift'. to sum them up as a gift for us is very egocentric in my opinion. the video i linked talks about how the animals involved in factory farming and whatnot are serving humanity in the way of providing opportunity to learn compassion... i.e. providing us opportunity to stop looking at them as objects for consumption and start showing them love, care, and decency. about the buddhist community, i would quickly add that perhaps that's a lesson that they should be more proactive so they're not at the mercy of what people gift them.

their nutrition is not necessarily craved by us.. this sounds like a roundabout way of saying we need to eat meat to be healthy. i know for one that i don't crave meat. i think that mostly comes from cultural conditioning and being raised on the standard american diet that pushes meat and animal products so heavily (because there are very dark beings at the top that want to create that intense suffering and feed it to people to keep them from ascending, as well as lower people's health and probably dark stuff involving loosh https://ascensionglossary.com/index.php/Loosh).

fish get dha/epa from algae, and i take a supplement that gets them from algae. i get vitamin d from sunlight or a supplement that sources it from lichen, vitamin k from leafy greens like kale, and b12 from a supplement (you can't actually utilize the b12 in meat, it's meant for the animal's nervous system and doesn't convert over).

Ra Wrote:19.2 Questioner: Let’s take the point at which an individualized entity of second density is ready for transition to third. Is this second-density being what we would call animal?

Ra: I am Ra. There are three types of second-density entities which become, shall we say, enspirited. The first is the animal. This is the most predominant. The second is the vegetable, most especially that which you call sound vibration complex “tree.” These entities are capable of giving and receiving enough love to become individualized. The third category is mineral. Occasionally a certain location, place as you may call it, becomes energized to individuality through the love it receives and gives in relationship to a third-density entity which is in relationship to it. This is the least common transition.

(06-19-2021, 05:46 PM)Dtris Wrote: How many of those 77 billion animals are actually raised in factory farms? How many experience the horrors you talk about?

(06-19-2021, 05:46 PM)Dtris Wrote: given the context, 7 animals per person is not very many. How many animals do you think a wild cat or dog kills and eats in a year? Do you get mad at a cat for killing and eating a mouse or bird? You may feel bad for the mouse or bird but does that mean you kill the cat?

(06-19-2021, 05:46 PM)Dtris Wrote: What is true and what almost everyone supports is that the animals we raise for food should be allowed to live outside, as nature intended, and slaughtered in a way that causes the least amount of suffering.

(06-19-2021, 05:46 PM)Dtris Wrote: On density, I must disagree with you about the density of animals. Other than dolphins which Hatonn has said are third density, animals and plants are both second density according to Ra and the other LL sources.

(06-19-2021, 05:46 PM)Dtris Wrote: You are also completely wrong on your statement about B12.

(06-21-2021, 07:22 AM)Patrick Wrote: There is one thing that should not be underestimated when going vegan. You have to properly inform yourself. There are important things to be aware of beyond stuff like B12. If that is done with intent, you can spend your whole life healthily on veganism.

(06-21-2021, 10:07 AM)Diana Wrote:

(06-21-2021, 07:22 AM)Patrick Wrote: There is one thing that should not be underestimated when going vegan. You have to properly inform yourself. There are important things to be aware of beyond stuff like B12. If that is done with intent, you can spend your whole life healthily on veganism.

I know you mean well Patrick  but this idea comes off as rather a scare tactic in my opinion. And the following comments are not aimed at you, but are general.

Firstly, let me make a distinction between vegan and plant-based. Plant-based just means the diet consists of plants only, with no animals (including fish) or animal by-products. Vegan means your diet is plant-based, but in addition to that, you endeavor to not support the use of animals for any purpose such as leather products and entertainment (rodeos, circuses, etc.).

The truth is that our societal notions of what is healthy are twisted and skewed for so many reasons. The biggest is the meat and dairy industry, which has been driving the information for many decades for profit. I could go on with this idea of driving information but we get into "conspiracies" of which there are many in this case, and I will avoid that for now. But I will say that the advertising campaign of meat and dairy being good for humans has been brainwashing people for a very long time.

B-12 is in soil, and if we didn't wash our vegetables, we would get it. We wash our vegetables, so we take supplements. That's about it. Other than that I can absolutely assure everyone here that a plant-based diet is very healthy. Of course, in any diet, to be healthy, one needs to eat whole foods, not processed junk. It is illogical to think that vegans must be extra careful, while omnivores do not. Do omnivores carefully plan out their meals to make sure they get everything they need? Does it make sense that because one eats meat (dead carcasses) that they are good to go with all the minerals and nutrients the body needs? It is proven over and over again that meat and dairy contribute to disease. No one ever proved that eating vegetables contributes to disease.

I am living proof that eating a plant-based diet is healthy. I am not the only one however. There are countless examples to be found on the Internet. And when looking at the (US at least) population, and seeing the amount of overweight unhealthy people (including children) who eat meat and dairy, it is worth considering that a plant-based diet is a wise choice. I will also say that children who are fed non-organic meat are consuming the growth hormones in the meat, and therefore grow bigger, fatter, and mature earlier sexually; and in addition consume the hormones produced from fear and terror, in the form of protein chains.

This is to say nothing of the health of this planet, and compassion for other life forms, namely animals, who have a central nervous system and feel pain, terror, resist being slaughtered, scream and mourn when their offspring are taken from them (cows and pigs), and more atrocities no one wants to think about. The very lame excuse that plants have feelings too, seems to be a popular justification for these atrocities. Plants do not have a central nervous system, and while they may have an instinct for survival, they offer themselves for food to us (along with a list of other reasons why they are are a good and compassionate choice for food).

It is true that factory-farmed plants are not ideal either. But to say factory-farmed plant crops is equal to factory-farmed animals, without going into the horror of it, just seems blind to me. If you don't think so, visit a slaughterhouse.

I know there are those who feel they must consume animal food. I don't agree, but I don't decide things for others. On the other hand, I will advocate for our brothers and sisters of the animal kingdom because they have no voice with which to do so.

Quote:" why have we put food in a box "

(06-23-2021, 03:52 AM)Aion Wrote: What I think we need is to "go back" to the creation of food forests. When Europeans first came to the "new world" they were amazed to find long trails and areas which were lined with berries and other foods. These had been crafted over hundreds of years by the many indigenous peoples. The real question is, why have we put food in a box? Food can be grown in so many places, it should be lining the streets and collected for communities by communities. We have to stop putting nature "out there" and let it in to the cities so that it can nourish us.

Quote:43.20 ▶ Questioner: I’m guessing that it is not necessary to ingest food in fifth density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. However, the vehicle needs food which may be prepared by thought.

43.21 ▶ Questioner: What type of food would this be?

Ra: I am Ra. You would call this type of food nectar, or ambrosia, or a light broth of golden white hue.

43.22 ▶ Questioner: What is the purpose of ingesting food in fifth density?

Ra: I am Ra. This is a somewhat central point. The purpose of space/time is the increase in catalytic action appropriate to the density. One of the preconditions for space/time existence is some form of body complex. Such a body complex must be fueled in some way.

Quote:43.5 ▶ Questioner: I’ll just try to pick up the last question left over from the last session. If you can answer it— I don’t know if it is of any importance, but it just occurred to me that the parts removed in cattle mutilations are the same every time, and I just wondered if this was related to the energy centers and why they were important if that was so?

Ra: I am Ra. This is basically correct if you may understand that there is a link between energy centers and various thought-forms. Thus the fears of the mass consciousness create the climate for the concentration upon the removal of bodily parts which symbolize areas of concern or fear in the mass consciousness.

43.6 ▶ Questioner: Are you saying, then, that these parts that are removed are related to the mass consciousness of the third-density human form on the planet and this fear is being used in some way by the second-density entities or, correction, the thought-form entities that do the mutilations?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct as latterly stated. The thought-form entities feed upon fear; thus they are able to do precise damage according to systems of symbology. The other second-density types of which you speak need the, what you call, blood.

(06-23-2021, 12:01 PM)Diana Wrote: ...(and this fear will be generated even when the animals are given a good life then slaughtered, as they do not want to die and will be afraid; though this method is so far better than factory farming and constitutes a huge step forward)...

(06-23-2021, 03:52 AM)Aion Wrote: For myself, I admit I am not entirely convinced that there is any singular diet which is the end-all "best" diet for humans. From what it seems to me, human bodies vary immensely in their construction and needs.

(06-23-2021, 12:50 PM)Patrick Wrote:

(06-23-2021, 12:01 PM)Diana Wrote: ...(and this fear will be generated even when the animals are given a good life then slaughtered, as they do not want to die and will be afraid; though this method is so far better than factory farming and constitutes a huge step forward)...

Here is a good article on that subject.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7278393/

(06-23-2021, 12:50 PM)Patrick Wrote: Also, we could optimize food with the following approach.

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/26/e2015025118

It's the closest to us eating sunlight and air.