Quote:"Questioner: I am probably having a problem with the concept of time since it appears that the Logos was aware of the polarization choice. It seems that this choice for polarization at the end of third density is an important philosophical plan for the experience past third density. Am I correct in assuming that this process is a process to create the proper or the desired experience that will take place in the creation after third density is complete?

Ra: I am Ra. These philosophical foundations are those of third density. Above this density there remains the recognition of the architecture of the Logos but without the veils which are so integral a part of the process of making the choice in third density." - Law of One 77.14

(07-27-2021, 01:42 AM)Anders Wrote: The main veil as I see it, is the veil of seeming separation. And that it's a necessary veil for the purpose of growth and development. Evil is in my view a result of the veil and so is entropy (disorder/deterioration). Removing the veil removes the evil.

Quote:A service-to-self polarizing person will likely have much more
control over what he says and does than will a positively polarizing
person. He will be attentive to details which might gain him an
advantage or give him ways to control others’ thoughts or actions
more efficiently. You can label such people as evil, but all that does
is embroil you in the lower-case gameboard, which loves to judge
and make differences between oneself and others which make the
self look “better than.”
When you try to use the words, “good and evil” in looking at
polarity’s dynamic opposites, you may find that those words carry
too much emotional charge to be useful for investigation. It is
better for the purposes of thinking about these concepts to use the
terms positive and negative, as with magnetic poles. Then there is
no emotional judgment rendered while discussing these concepts.
I am not suggesting that you need to embrace what you consider
evil in the pursuit of unbiased thinking. I am only suggesting that,
in thinking about polarity, it helps to use the neutral terms of
positive and negative rather than good and evil or right and wrong.
Those two sets of dynamics—good and evil and right and
wrong—are relative terms. Different things are good, proper or
right to different people and groups of people. The terms, positive
and negative, being linked to the nature of a polarized magnet,
afford us more nearly objective terms.

(07-27-2021, 03:28 AM)Sena Wrote: Anders, I am not sure about this. I am also new to the Law of One, and I could be wrong. Ra has said that STS entities will continue to operate (on STS planets) until they reach 6th density. If they reach 6th density, the veil must have been removed, but they will continue to be evil.

P.S.
In the following quote, Carla seems to be saying that we should refrain from labelling individuals as evil: ...

(07-27-2021, 01:42 AM)Anders Wrote: I'm fairly new to the Law of One and have only looked into a little bit about what Ra calls the veil in the Law of One. Ra even talks about several veils:

Quote:"Questioner: I am probably having a problem with the concept of time since it appears that the Logos was aware of the polarization choice. It seems that this choice for polarization at the end of third density is an important philosophical plan for the experience past third density. Am I correct in assuming that this process is a process to create the proper or the desired experience that will take place in the creation after third density is complete?

Ra: I am Ra. These philosophical foundations are those of third density. Above this density there remains the recognition of the architecture of the Logos but without the veils which are so integral a part of the process of making the choice in third density." - Law of One 77.14

The main veil as I see it, is the veil of seeming separation. And that it's a necessary veil for the purpose of growth and development. Evil is in my view a result of the veil and so is entropy (disorder/deterioration). Removing the veil removes the evil. The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" is only a temporary set of training wheels for humanity. In this way the Infinite Creator is recognized as being all good since evil is just a polarity caused by the veil.

(07-27-2021, 01:42 AM)Anders Wrote: ...The main veil as I see it, is the veil of seeming separation. And that it's a necessary veil for the purpose of growth and development. Evil is in my view a result of the veil and so is entropy (disorder/deterioration). Removing the veil removes the evil. The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" is only a temporary set of training wheels for humanity. In this way the Infinite Creator is recognized as being all good since evil is just a polarity caused by the veil.

(07-27-2021, 05:44 AM)Anders Wrote: ...It's interesting that service-to-self exists up to mid sixth density. After that, the veil can't be upheld any longer...

(07-27-2021, 08:56 AM)Patrick Wrote: The veil creates the necessary conditions for such a choice as evil to be made. But note that it is the Creator that is "sometimes" making this choice when the possibility exists for it to be made. There is a part of the Creator (a part of us) that prefers suffering and order over bliss and jolly seeming disorder.

But yes I still believe evil was invented by mistake or at least it was a big surprise: https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=18505

(07-27-2021, 09:07 AM)Patrick Wrote: The reason evil can remain chosen without the veil is that this portion of the Creator used the veil to build a gap in perception or a hole in the aura and it chooses to retain that configuration even when the truth of Oneness is seen in 3d time/space, 4d and 5d.

(07-27-2021, 09:13 AM)Anders Wrote: ...an anagram for veil is evil! [I just discovered that now, haha]...

(07-27-2021, 09:27 AM)Anders Wrote:

(07-27-2021, 09:07 AM)Patrick Wrote: The reason evil can remain chosen without the veil is that this portion of the Creator used the veil to build a gap in perception or a hole in the aura and it chooses to retain that configuration even when the truth of Oneness is seen in 3d time/space, 4d and 5d.

Okay, I was thinking of the veil of separation as what causes service-to-self. You mean that the Law of One says that there isn't any veil in higher densities?

(07-27-2021, 09:44 AM)Patrick Wrote:

(07-27-2021, 09:27 AM)Anders Wrote:

(07-27-2021, 09:07 AM)Patrick Wrote: The reason evil can remain chosen without the veil is that this portion of the Creator used the veil to build a gap in perception or a hole in the aura and it chooses to retain that configuration even when the truth of Oneness is seen in 3d time/space, 4d and 5d.

Okay, I was thinking of the veil of separation as what causes service-to-self. You mean that the Law of One says that there isn't any veil in higher densities?

Yes indeed.

"Ra 83.3 ...Firstly, let us establish that both before and after the veil the same conditions existed in time/space; that is, the veiling process is a space/time phenomenon."

"Ra 21.9 ...This is the only plane of forgetting. It is necessary for the third-density entity to forget so that the mechanisms of confusion or free will may operate upon the newly individuated consciousness complex."

Look at the whole session 83. It is full of information on the veil. A real goldmine.

https://www.lawofone.info/s/83

(07-27-2021, 09:44 AM)Patrick Wrote:

(07-27-2021, 09:27 AM)Anders Wrote:

(07-27-2021, 09:07 AM)Patrick Wrote: The reason evil can remain chosen without the veil is that this portion of the Creator used the veil to build a gap in perception or a hole in the aura and it chooses to retain that configuration even when the truth of Oneness is seen in 3d time/space, 4d and 5d.

Okay, I was thinking of the veil of separation as what causes service-to-self. You mean that the Law of One says that there isn't any veil in higher densities?

Yes indeed.

"Ra 83.3 ...Firstly, let us establish that both before and after the veil the same conditions existed in time/space; that is, the veiling process is a space/time phenomenon."

"Ra 21.9 ...This is the only plane of forgetting. It is necessary for the third-density entity to forget so that the mechanisms of confusion or free will may operate upon the newly individuated consciousness complex."

Look at the whole session 83. It is full of information on the veil. A real goldmine.

https://www.lawofone.info/s/83

Quote:"Questioner: What was the attitude of these two entities after they graduated into fourth-density negative and, the veil being removed, they realized that they had switched polarities?

Ra: I am Ra. They were disconcerted." - Law of One 89.40

Quote:77.19 Questioner: Do the Logoi that choose this type of evolution choose both the service-to-self and the service-to-others path for different Logoi, or do they choose just one of the paths?

Ra: I am Ra. Those, what you would call, early Logoi which chose lack-of-free-will foundations, to all extents with no exceptions, founded Logoi of the service-to-others path. The, shall we say, saga of polarity, its consequences and limits, were unimagined until experienced.

(07-27-2021, 10:20 AM)Patrick Wrote: The Logos that created the experiment of the 3d space/time veil did not do this in order to create the two polarities we now know of as STO and STS. This experiment was for the purpose of enriching experiences in general and giving "more" choices to entities (extending freewill further).

But it created the ground where such possibility as doing things at the expanse of others became a choice. Before the veil all "others" were seen as other-selves. After the veil it became possible to see others as not the self.

AND yet the Logos never even imagined that seeing others as not the self would make it so that some would choose to force others to serve their selves.

Quote:77.19 Questioner: Do the Logoi that choose this type of evolution choose both the service-to-self and the service-to-others path for different Logoi, or do they choose just one of the paths?

Ra: I am Ra. Those, what you would call, early Logoi which chose lack-of-free-will foundations, to all extents with no exceptions, founded Logoi of the service-to-others path. The, shall we say, saga of polarity, its consequences and limits, were unimagined until experienced.

(07-27-2021, 10:34 AM)Anders Wrote: ...I see what Ra calls the saga of polarity as the same as the "fall" of humanity in the Bible. In the "garden of Eden" humanity lived in undifferentiated oneness. And then through the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" humanity had to "leave" Eden in order to develop individual personalities and a unique human civilization. That's the veil of separation. And the next evolutionary step for humanity is to return back to oneness, yet in a developed state instead of the undeveloped state in the garden of Eden. So it's a much higher stage of oneness. And only through the veil is this evolution into the higher state of oneness possible. It's a massive cosmic process.

Quote:76.16 Questioner: Third density, then, it appears, is, compared to the rest of the densities, all of them, nothing but a uniquely short period of what we consider to be time and is then for the purpose of this choice.
Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is precisely correct. The prelude to choice must encompass the laying of the foundation, the establishment of the illusion and the viability of that which can be made spiritually viable. The remainder of the densities is continuous refining of the choice. This also is greatly lengthened, as you would use the term. The choice is, as you put it, the work of a moment but is the axis upon which the creation turns.

78.21 Questioner: You stated previously that The Choice that is made in this density, third density, is the axis upon which the creation turns. Could you expand on your reason for making that statement?

Ra: I am Ra. This is a statement of the nature of creation as we speak to you.

78.22 Questioner: I did not understand that. Could you say that in a different way?

Ra: I am Ra. As you have noted, the creation of which your Logos is a part is a protean entity which grows and learns upon a macrocosmic scale. The Logos is not a part of time. All that is learned from experience in an octave is, therefore, the harvest of that Logos and is further the nature of that Logos.

The original Logos’s experience was, viewed in space/time, small; Its experience now, more. Therefore we say, as we now speak to you at this space/time, the nature of creation is as we have described. This does not deny the process by which this nature has been achieved but merely ratifies the product.

(07-27-2021, 10:51 AM)Anders Wrote: Ra talks about separate selves and about souls. Isn't that a form of separation? Yes, but my explanation is that the individual self is the experience of a soul which in turn is an eternal unique point. And a point is in itself empty! So the self is not a separate object.

One explanation I use is Indra's net which is made of an infinite number of jewels where each jewel reflects all other jewels in the net. An individual soul is one of those jewels in the net at a specific location. And each "jewel" is actually a point, indestructible and changeless.

(09-07-2012, 09:23 AM)Raz Wrote: I believe that the result is there; we experience it as the "future attractor". This reality is like an equation or prequel, designed to create a deeper understanding of that result.

Quote:"Ra: I am Ra. ... Above this density there remains the recognition of the architecture of the Logos but without the veils which are so integral a part of the process of making the choice in third density." - Law of One 77.14

(07-27-2021, 11:27 AM)Anders Wrote: ...My interpretation is that without the veil choice is impossible. This is a delicate issue that I need to ponder further.

(07-27-2021, 11:47 AM)Patrick Wrote:

(07-27-2021, 11:27 AM)Anders Wrote: ...My interpretation is that without the veil choice is impossible. This is a delicate issue that I need to ponder further.

You cannot choose to enslave others for your own benefit if there are no "others". The veil created the illusion that there is self and others.

What boggles the mind is the continuing to enslave "others" without the veil in 4d and 5d, while being fully aware that you are doing this to yourself. You are aware that you will personally experience the suffering that you are dishing out, because you know there is only One consciousness. While in 3d space/time it is understandable, but the fact this choice remains and is even refined in 4d and 5d, without any veil, is hard to understand.

Quote:"Questioner: How does a third-density planet become a fourth-density?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full question.

The fourth density is, as we have said, as regularized in its approach as the striking of a clock upon the hour. The space/time of your solar system has enabled this planetary sphere to spiral into space/time of a different vibrational configuration. This causes the planetary sphere to be able to be molded by these new distortions. However, the thought-forms of your people during this transition period are such that the mind/body/spirit complexes of both individual and societies are scattered throughout the spectrum instead of becoming able to grasp the needle, shall we say, and point the compass in one direction.

Thus, the entry into the vibration of love, sometimes called by your people the vibration of understanding, is not effective with the present societal complex. Thus, the harvest shall be such that many will repeat the third-density cycle. The energies of your Wanderers, your teachers, and your adepts at this time are all bent upon increasing the harvest. However, there are few to harvest." - Law of One 13.23

(07-28-2021, 02:48 AM)Anders Wrote: Another practice can be based on what Ra said in this quote:

Quote:"Questioner: How does a third-density planet become a fourth-density?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full question.

The fourth density is, as we have said, as regularized in its approach as the striking of a clock upon the hour. The space/time of your solar system has enabled this planetary sphere to spiral into space/time of a different vibrational configuration. This causes the planetary sphere to be able to be molded by these new distortions. However, the thought-forms of your people during this transition period are such that the mind/body/spirit complexes of both individual and societies are scattered throughout the spectrum instead of becoming able to grasp the needle, shall we say, and point the compass in one direction.

Thus, the entry into the vibration of love, sometimes called by your people the vibration of understanding, is not effective with the present societal complex. Thus, the harvest shall be such that many will repeat the third-density cycle. The energies of your Wanderers, your teachers, and your adepts at this time are all bent upon increasing the harvest. However, there are few to harvest." - Law of One 13.23

I love this analogy of compasses. The veil scattered all our compasses so that they now point in all kinds of directions. And the practice is to align our personal compass with the unified direction. The "compass" can be interpreted as our will. A unified will removes the veil. How to do that in practice? One approach is to simply have the intent to unify one's own will with the will of others and to use feelings to monitor the progress.

(07-27-2021, 08:56 AM)Patrick Wrote:

(07-27-2021, 01:42 AM)Anders Wrote: ...The main veil as I see it, is the veil of seeming separation. And that it's a necessary veil for the purpose of growth and development. Evil is in my view a result of the veil and so is entropy (disorder/deterioration). Removing the veil removes the evil. The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" is only a temporary set of training wheels for humanity. In this way the Infinite Creator is recognized as being all good since evil is just a polarity caused by the veil.

The veil creates the necessary conditions for such a choice as evil to be made. But note that it is the Creator that is "sometimes" making this choice when the possibility exists for it to be made. There is a part of the Creator (a part of us) that prefers suffering and order over bliss and jolly seeming disorder.

But yes I still believe evil was invented by mistake or at least it was a big surprise: https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=18505