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The current Ukraine crisis... - Printable Version

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RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - LeiwoUnion - 03-10-2022

I find it amusing that western countries wouldn't be called authoritarian. Their true colors were (again) revealed during the last couple of years for all to see. The way I see it, there is absolutely zero true democracies just because of the fact that they are embedded into political systems where the affiliations of the political complex are almost completely invisible. And this is just the surface. Great effort has been used to make these democratic processes seem as realistic as possible. I don't enjoy being 'the negative Nancy' here but understanding that all of the current power structures and systems are unworkable as a basis for positively polarising society complex is quite important in my opinion.


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - zedro - 03-10-2022

A favorite self quote is, voting for your countries 'leaders' is no different than voting for a company's HR department, you really don't get a say on how things are run, but you are hoping they give you the social benefits they promised.

Even if our representatives actually did their job democratically, the most impactful forms of governance happens beyond that system.


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Patrick - 03-10-2022

I can't find the quote where Ra mentions that all our political systems have negative entities at their head on this planet.

In the meantime, there is this.

Quote:34.9 Questioner: Thank you. Would you give me the same type of information about the self in relation to the societal self?

Ra: I am Ra. The unmanifested self may find its lessons those which develop any of the energy influx centers of the mind/body/spirit complex. The societal and self interactions most often concentrate upon the second and third energy centers. Thus those most active in attempting to remake or alter the society are those working from feelings of being correct personally or of having answers which will put power in a more correct configuration. This may be seen to be of a full travel from negative to positive in orientation. Either will activate these energy ray centers.

There are some few whose desires to aid society are of a green-ray nature or above. These entities, however, are few due to the understanding, may we say, of fourth ray that universal love freely given is more to be desired than principalities or even the rearrangement of peoples or political structures.

Which explains why the leaders we would really need are unlikely to play in the current political systems (in whatever form).


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - LeiwoUnion - 03-10-2022

(03-10-2022, 04:25 PM)Patrick Wrote: I can't find the quote where Ra mentions that all our political systems have negative entities at their head on this planet.

In the meantime, there is this.

Quote:34.9 Questioner: Thank you. Would you give me the same type of information about the self in relation to the societal self?

Ra: I am Ra. The unmanifested self may find its lessons those which develop any of the energy influx centers of the mind/body/spirit complex. The societal and self interactions most often concentrate upon the second and third energy centers. Thus those most active in attempting to remake or alter the society are those working from feelings of being correct personally or of having answers which will put power in a more correct configuration. This may be seen to be of a full travel from negative to positive in orientation. Either will activate these energy ray centers.

There are some few whose desires to aid society are of a green-ray nature or above. These entities, however, are few due to the understanding, may we say, of fourth ray that universal love freely given is more to be desired than principalities or even the rearrangement of peoples or political structures.

Which explains why the leaders we would really need are unlikely to play in the current political systems (in whatever form).

They don't even have to have negatives at the head. However, any positives (like some here in Finland, I think) are neutered by the political party system, for once. The resulting consensus regarding decisions is always within the limits of the system which means true change is impossible. This frustrates true positive beings much and leads them generally away from politics altogether. It doesn't help also that corporations hold so much of the true power.


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - YinYang - 03-11-2022

(03-10-2022, 03:34 PM)LeiwoUnion Wrote: I find it amusing that western countries wouldn't be called authoritarian.

Referring to regimes such as the Kremlin, the Chinese Communist Party, North Korea etc. as "authoritarian" is commonplace, because there are degrees of authoritarianism. By referring to them as "authoritarian" doesn't imply that democracies exhibit no authoritarian tendencies. Democracy also takes different forms in different countries, some exhibiting more authoritarian tendencies than others.

As someone who has lived through both governmental systems (South Africa) in my short little life, I can confidently tell you that you'll have difficulty convincing any non-white South African today that they were better off under the authoritarian apartheid regime than the liberal democracy they enjoy today.

Anyone can walk out their front door and protest the government without fear of imprisonment. Anyone can insult/criticise or make fun of the government publicly and on any social media platform without fear of imprisonment. Anyone can visit any website in the world without having to use a VPN and jump the "great firewall", as is the case in China, and fear imprisonment for doing so. We have religious freedom, although I have yet to encounter a member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but I'm sure they're out there. We have a free press. We have freedom of speech. We have gay marriage. I can go on and on, and I am sure you also enjoy these freedoms in Finland.

It's thanks to all those 'checks and balances' I mentioned earlier, enshrined in democratic constitutions. These constitutions serve the purpose of curbing authoritarianism and power grabs (however ineffectively), and allow ordinary citizens a level of freedom which was unimaginable in earlier times. 

We have to work with things as they are, not with how we want them to be.

For me personally, after experiencing authoritarianism first-hand, I'm happy to go out on a limb and give my vote to democracy, and it appears the Ukrainians share my sentiments.

Putin can already be deemed to have failed in his goals. His economy is shattered, Ukrainians are more defiant than ever and now hate Russia, the US and the West are united as never before, and NATO has found a new relevance and might even get new members, including Finland, although I would put that consideration on ice for the moment if I were you guys, lest a very angry guy to the East of you in possession of the largest nuclear arsenal in the world decides to do something irresponsible... and unthinkable...


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - YinYang - 03-11-2022

Here's the link I found between Stoicism and the Ra material:

Ra Wrote:Upon the Earth plane, energies had been set in motion which did not cause a great deal of call. There were isolated instances of callings, one such taking place beginning approximately two six zero zero [2,600] of your years in the past in what you would call Greece at this time and resulting in writings and understandings of some facets of the Law of One. We especially note the one known as Thales and the one known as Heraclitus, those being of the philosopher career, as you may call it, teaching their students. We also point out the understandings of the one known as Pericles.


Heraclitus & Stoicism - The Pre-Stoic Philosopher who Inspired Marcus Aurelius


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Vasilisa - 03-11-2022

Look at the facts, comrades, and compare news information from different parts of the world. Moreover, now it is possible to do it. As for democracy in South Africa, why is this country the only one that has taken an unfriendly position towards Russia? See my posts above.


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Vasilisa - 03-11-2022

Yes, and philosophy and psychology, too, would not hurt many to study more carefully.


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - YinYang - 03-11-2022

(03-11-2022, 04:39 AM)Vasilisa Wrote: As for democracy in South Africa, why is this country the only one that has taken an unfriendly position towards Russia?

I believe you meant to say a "friendly" position, or at least a "fence-sitting" position for the moment...

As you've noticed, we chose to abstain on the UN resolution vote condemning the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which will always be a stain on our record in my opinion.

There are old loyalties between Russia and the ANC (Nelson Mandela's party), because Russia helped the fight against apartheid.

In addition to that I think our BRICS membership further muddies the water...


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - tadeus - 03-11-2022

(03-10-2022, 02:13 PM)YinYang Wrote:
Tadeus Wrote:There are really substantially different ideologies?


Or only different forms of totalitarianism?

Well, from my perspective, considering we live on a mixed polarity planet, both systems can (and are) exploited for self gain, but democracy has just a few more checks and balances in place that ensure a better chance for average people to have inalienable rights that afford them some safety and security.

Remember this is planet Earth, messy business indeed.... which is why I like Churchill's quote about democracy... full of cynicism, but so far the best we have.

Just have a look at the definition:

Quote:Democracy
  • a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
  • a political unit that has a democratic government

vest
  • to grant or endow with a particular authority, right, or property
  • to place or give into the possession or discretion of some person or authority especially : to give to a person a legally fixed immediate right of present or future enjoyment of (such as an estate)

people
  • the members of a family or kinship
  • the mass of a community as distinguished from a special class
  • a body of persons that are united by a common culture, tradition, or sense of kinship, that typically have common language, institutions, and beliefs, and that often constitute a politically organized group

Supreme power ist vested into a community as distinguished from a special class - let us call it Elite.

That has nothing to do with natural rights or self-responsibility as sovereign.


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - tadeus - 03-11-2022

(03-10-2022, 03:34 PM)LeiwoUnion Wrote: I find it amusing that western countries wouldn't be called authoritarian. Their true colors were (again) revealed during the last couple of years for all to see. The way I see it, there is absolutely zero true democracies just because of the fact that they are embedded into political systems where the affiliations of the political complex are almost completely invisible. And this is just the surface. Great effort has been used to make these democratic processes seem as realistic as possible. I don't enjoy being 'the negative Nancy' here but understanding that all of the current power structures and systems are unworkable as a basis for positively polarising society complex is quite important in my opinion.

Quote:political

The exact meaning of words is becoming increasingly important ...


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - tadeus - 03-11-2022

(03-10-2022, 04:25 PM)Patrick Wrote: I can't find the quote where Ra mentions that all our political systems have negative entities at their head on this planet.

Which explains why the leaders we would really need are unlikely to play in the current political systems (in whatever form).

Yes - the only point is to give up your individual sovereignty as human being by free will.


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Vasilisa - 03-11-2022

Yes, sorry. Translation difficulties and an abundance of information. I agree with you here.
It was I who answered Yin-Yang about the neutral position and BRICS)


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Vasilisa - 03-11-2022

Servant of God —

1) a person who believes in the One and True God, who is aware of his dependence on Him as the Creator and Provident, who accepts His authority as the authority of the Heavenly King, striving to fulfill His good will. (Gal. 1:10);

Does it look like a democracy?


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - YinYang - 03-11-2022

tadeus Wrote:The exact meaning of words is becoming increasingly important...

Indeed, so let me be clear, since I see my use of the word "authoritarian" in a political context is causing confusion.

Authoritarianism is a system of government characterized by the rejection of political pluralism and the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo. The silencing of dissidents through imprisonment or death is also common to these regimes. Alexei Navalny in Russia & Jimmy Lai in Hong Kong are recent examples.    


[/quote]


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Diana - 03-11-2022

(03-11-2022, 10:33 AM)YinYang Wrote:
tadeus Wrote:The exact meaning of words is becoming increasingly important...

Indeed, so let me be clear, since I see my use of the word "authoritarianism" in a political context is causing confusion.

Authoritarianism is a system of government characterized by the rejection of political pluralism and the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo. The silencing of dissidents through imprisonment or death is also common to these regimes. Alexei Navalny in Russia & Jimmy Lai in Hong Kong are recent examples.    

While dictatorships and the overt presentations of authoritarianism are in violation of free will, human rights, freedom, justice, the right to live, and live in peace, there is the concept of covert authoritarianism. 

Apartheid and other authoritarian regimes such as nazi Germany and North Korea were(are) overt and obvious and easy to identify. But there is now much covert authoritarianism which is insidious and more difficult to identify. And although the overt and obvious crimes against humanity (and the planet) made by extreme governmental actions such as genocide, war, imprisoning "dissidents" etc. are heinous, there are also the crimes that seem less extreme made in covert fashion which, though in comparison appear so much less damaging, are damaging nonetheless. 

Of course we deal with the most urgent and destructive catalyst first, such as genocide or invasion—survival has to be dealt with before one is worried about freedom of speech for example. If you're not alive you can't speak out.

But the covert control in this world (or let me speak for myself and my country—the US), which has infiltrated so many aspects of human societies, and so successfully censored freedoms in the last two years (not that it didn't previously exist), though it is messier and hidden in layers and more compartmented than traditionally defined overt authoritarian situations, is still control and therefore authoritarian in practice.

I also think that although acceptance/forgiveness is the best way forward, with the harm done to so many on this planet by either overt or covert control, restitution or some sort of justice (loss of life, livelihood, homes, health and so on while those in power profit) may be necessary to achieve balance of catalyst. Historically this has manifested as revolution, over and over. However, within a transitional phase to 4th density, I imagine that transparency (truth)—and this is where the covert control comes into the picture—will be key in foundational change.

Quote:26.30 Questioner: And then, can you describe the mechanism of the planetary healing?

Ra: I am Ra. Healing is a process of acceptance, forgiveness, and, if possible, restitution. The restitution not being available in time/space, there are many among your peoples now attempting restitution while in the physical.

Quote:21.20 Questioner: Since it was not perceived it was not necessary to balance this. Is that correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. What is necessary to balance is opportunity. When there is ignorance, there is no opportunity. When there exists a potential, then each opportunity shall be balanced, this balancing caused by not only the positive and negative orientations of those offering aid but also the orientation of those requesting aid.



RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - flofrog - 03-11-2022

I was born in Paris right after WW2 after my father returned from concentration camp, and I remember my siblings, family and friends talking about war and alerts and bombing. We can talk a lot about standard western media like The NY Times, and the West perspective and news, true or fabricated, but in this link, all this sounds so much what I heard when I was a child, so heartbreaking

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/03/11/opinion/ukraine-russia-war-independent-generation.html


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Diana - 03-11-2022

(03-08-2022, 09:04 AM)YinYang Wrote: This might be slightly off topic, or maybe not.

I read this amazing book:

Chronicles From The Future: The amazing story of Paul Amadeus Dienach

It's the diary of a guy who fell into a year-long coma in 1921, who claims that during the coma his consciousness entered someone else's body in the year 3900.

The future he describes in this diary is undoubtedly a positive 4D society. I always reread this book when the darkness of our current time makes me worried. It's like my personal panacea against all the bad news coming from all sides, along with the Ra material of course (and a few others).

After reading this post, I ordered the book. It's really an amazing account. I'm about a third of the way through it. Thanks so much for suggesting it. Smile


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Loki - 03-11-2022

(03-11-2022, 04:39 AM)Vasilisa Wrote: Look at the facts, comrades, and compare news information from different parts of the world. Moreover, now it is possible to do it. As for democracy in South Africa, why is this country the only one that has taken an unfriendly position towards Russia? See my posts above.

"Facts" and definition of "Servant of God" don't prove anything because they are relative to this reality. We do not go to heaven obeying earthly rules. This is why we keep repeating 3D over and over we follow the damn earthly rule which we call conveniently "God's rules".

As far I know there are two kinds of wrong doers. First kind are doing wrong knowing they are doing wrong. Second kind are doing wrong believing they are doing right.


First kind are the ones knowing what they want and we find them in the power apparatus of all countries around the world. Second kind are the ones that believe the leaders are right. Killing for Trump, for Putin, for Biden, for Trudeau, for the Queen or for Police is still killing no mater how we wrap it up to make it look good. When a leader tells us is ethical to punish someone, no matter the reason, we find the evil.

Doing the right thing in this world takes a lot of suffering. Doing the wrong thing shells us usually from suffering during this life.

If Jesus would have said "I will be a good person not to make trouble for my beloved parents." would we talk about him today?


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Vasilisa - 03-11-2022

I am voicing only my personal opinion (and unfortunately, I have a tendency to generalize), but it seems to me that now it is possible to see how racial memory is distributed across our planet. I do not know what should happen so that countries with their own national flavor and their racial memory could live with the understanding of the best mystics from every religion, which is the same everywhere and always. Especially in the modern high-tech mainstream and financial freedom


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Vasilisa - 03-11-2022

As for the facts, definitions and proofs of this reality, I agree. That with a personal desire (or rather, ignoring the consensus), none of the above will work. But as humanity, as a society, we live in the reality of consensus and we have to either reckon with it or ignore it. This is what we are actually observing on the world political arena right now. (Again, these are my personal reflections and generalizations)


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Loki - 03-11-2022

(03-11-2022, 04:38 PM)Vasilisa Wrote: As for the facts, definitions and proofs of this reality, I agree. That with a personal desire (or rather, ignoring the consensus), none of the above will work. But as humanity, as a society, we live in the reality of consensus and we have to either reckon with it or ignore it. This is what we are actually observing on the world political arena right now. (Again, these are my personal reflections and generalizations)

I believe this creation is really governed by free will and this is why we cannot invoke any excuse at the end. Following our hearts it will put us on the right path. The biggest mistake we can make is to be tricked into believing we do the right thing when doing the wrong thing. But acting out of fear is as damaging as acting out of misunderstanding.

Freedom of choice cannot be taken away from us because it is given by Creator. We might think we have no choice but there is always choice to follow our hearts. Maybe not a choice we would like necessarily, not a choice easy to make, but a choice that beyond this madness will set us free.

There is a interesting movie called "a hidden life" which is based on a true story. It is about an Austrian citizen who refused to take the oath for Hitler in WWII. He ended up being considered traitor and coward by the village and his family was targeted by hate of the other villagers and at the end he was executed in prison, and all this because he believed that according to Jesus is immoral to kill. He wasn't a fanatic but a brave human. He offered to work as medical personnel or any other auxiliary personnel that would help without being forced to kill.

This man proves there is always choice but is not easy.


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - flofrog - 03-11-2022

That .” Hidden Life “ was an extraordinary movie.

YinYang, thank you for the book too….. although difficult I’m its beginnings….
Heart


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - IndigoSalvia - 03-11-2022

As my day comes to a close, I sit again in quiet, and I contemplate that which I took in today ... that which I encountered.

And, my awareness wanders to those within the Ukrainian/Russian conflict. And, for many, other conflicts scattered across our Earth.

I invite you to join me - energetically - in raising our glorious lights, our voices together in love, compassion and tenderness.

We will all raise, together, a majestic light from many points across the globe. Heart 

Impromptu, just join any time if you'd like.


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Vasilisa - 03-12-2022

(03-11-2022, 10:05 PM)Локи Wrote:
(03-11-2022, 04:38 PM)Василиса Wrote:

Я считаю, что это творение действительно управляется свободной волей, и поэтому мы не можем ссылаться на какое-либо оправдание в конце. Следуя своему сердцу, оно направит нас на правильный путь. Самая большая ошибка, которую мы можем совершить, — это обмануть нас, заставив поверить, что мы поступаем правильно, когда поступаем неправильно. Но действовать из страха так же вредно, как действовать из непонимания.

Свободу выбора у нас не отнять, потому что она дана Творцом. Мы можем думать, что у нас нет выбора, но всегда есть выбор следовать своему сердцу. Может быть, это не тот выбор, который мы обязательно хотели бы сделать, не тот выбор, который легко сделать, но выбор, который сделает нас свободными за пределами этого безумия.

Есть интересный фильм "Скрытая жизнь", основанный на реальных событиях. Речь идет о гражданине Австрии, который отказался принести присягу Гитлеру во время Второй мировой войны. В конце концов, деревня считала его предателем и трусом, а его семья подверглась ненависти со стороны других жителей деревни, и в конце концов он был казнен в тюрьме, и все это потому, что он считал, что, согласно Иисусу, убивать аморально. Он был не фанатиком, а смелым человеком. Он предложил работать медицинским персоналом или любым другим вспомогательным персоналом, который помогал бы без принуждения к убийству.

Этот человек доказывает, что всегда есть выбор, но он не прост.
 Free choice for a person is easier than free choice for a country, a state (which, in my perception, is a living social organism). That's why I started talking about racial memory and states in general.


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - YinYang - 03-12-2022

(03-11-2022, 12:24 PM)Diana Wrote:
(03-08-2022, 09:04 AM)YinYang Wrote: This might be slightly off topic, or maybe not.

I read this amazing book:

Chronicles From The Future: The amazing story of Paul Amadeus Dienach

It's the diary of a guy who fell into a year-long coma in 1921, who claims that during the coma his consciousness entered someone else's body in the year 3900.

The future he describes in this diary is undoubtedly a positive 4D society. I always reread this book when the darkness of our current time makes me worried. It's like my personal panacea against all the bad news coming from all sides, along with the Ra material of course (and a few others).

After reading this post, I ordered the book. It's really an amazing account. I'm about a third of the way through it. Thanks so much for suggesting it. Smile

Isn't it just amazing? I love that book!

Knowing the Ra material makes it especially interesting, because I think what they refer to as the Nibelvirch (if memory serves me well) is roughly the transition from 3rd to 4th density.

Chronicles of the Future Wrote:We saw it and that explains the, unknown to the older generations, feeling of immense happiness that has filled our hearts since then. We saw it thanks to the Nibelvirch—the supreme Virch—after thousands of tormenting doubts, many tears, many moments of moral weakness and despair, and after being prepared for centuries by the Valley of the Roses.

And Alexis Volky appears to be some kind of a "Jesus-like" figure or "advanced soul" during the transition, the first one who could endure the "new light" without perishing.

Unfortunately, according to the book, our immediate future (next few centuries) is going to require some buckling up...

I think that's exactly what I'm doing this weekend, reading this book again. I'd like to start a thread on this book, there's great overlap with the Ra material from a philosophical perspective. I've also highlighted all the dates in the book on my kindle in blue, to give me a rough date range of the events as they unfolded.

flofrog Wrote:YinYang, thank you for the book too….. although difficult I’m its beginnings….

You're welcome flo, I hope you enjoy it!


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - tadeus - 03-12-2022

(03-11-2022, 10:33 AM)YinYang Wrote: Indeed, so let me be clear, since I see my use of the word "authoritarian" in a political context is causing confusion.

Authoritarianism is a system of government characterized by the rejection of political pluralism and the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo. The silencing of dissidents through imprisonment or death is also common to these regimes. Alexei Navalny in Russia & Jimmy Lai in Hong Kong are recent examples.    

So authoritarianism in the meaning of totalitarianism ?

It is helpful to distinguish between politics and administration, although both have the same target to control the people.

The central question is how much administration/government is really needed/senseful for a good life?
This leads to the question of the influence of the needed sovereignty for freedom and the elaboration of free will.


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - YinYang - 03-12-2022

As for this conflict, my heart is with the Russians and the Ukrainians, being divided by negative forces.

Humanity has much to thank the Russians for, Leo Tolstoy & Fyodor Dostoevsky immediately comes to mind.

Funny enough, in the book I mentioned - Chronicles of the Future - there's a statue erected in Leo Tolstoy's honour around the year 3900.

Chronicles of the Future Wrote:I knew that in the Pantheon I would find thousands of works by all the great spiritual men that have existed from my time and onwards. But the area of the Pantheon is extremely large; it’s an entire town in itself. I only spent a few hours there when it would take years for someone to study this entire cultural and spiritual heritage. One can find the names hosted there in school textbooks and read about their work. The guidebooks of the Valley are there to help you find content by a specific author or the exact shelf location of a specific book in that vast library.

Poets, philosophers, researchers of the natural sciences, music composers, thinkers, humanitarians, public and political figures, mystics, artists, social reformers, educators: they’re all here, as long as their work has stood the test of time. Einstein, Newton, Pythagoras, Homer, Milton, Virgil, Socrates, Plato, Confucius, William Tell, Gautama Buddha, Matteotti, Bach, Handel, Rousseau, Tolstoy, Kierkegaard, Seneca, Pascal, Bergson and Rilke are some of the historical figures from the eras before mine that are hosted there.

Their life-size marble, brass, copper and synthetic ivory statues, most of them decorated with scenes from their work, that stand on equally tall pedestals, symbolise, at least in my own mind, a triumphant vindication of the cultural legacy of the “prehistoric and uncivilised”, as they call them, times.

It gave me considerable pleasure and satisfaction to see some of our great men come alive everywhere around me! Something that really struck me was that I even saw crowned ones, like Codrus, Numa Pompilius and Marcus Aurelius!



RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - YinYang - 03-12-2022

tadeus Wrote:So authoritarianism in the meaning of totalitarianism ?

I would say there's certainly much overlap between the two, yes.

tadeus Wrote:The central question is how much administration/government is really needed/senseful for a good life?

This leads to the question of the influence of the needed sovereignty for freedom and the elaboration of free will.

An ongoing question since time immemorial I'm sure, even Lao Tzu addressed this question...Apparently he criticised Confucius for "just sowing confusion", or so the story goes.


RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Vasilisa - 03-12-2022

Quote:The central question is how much administration/government is really needed/senseful for a good life?

The same question was asked by the prophet Samuel, who is very respected by me, to the Israeli people when the people asked for a King instead of the Creator. Apparently humanity as a species is still very young and does not know how to live otherwise.