Law of One, Book 3, Session 69 Wrote:Questioner: Do I understand, then, that death, whether it is by natural means or accidental means or suicide, that all deaths of this type would create the same after-death condition which would avail the entity to its protection from friends? Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. We presume you mean to inquire whether in the death experience, no matter what the cause, the negative friends are not able to remove an entity. This is correct largely because the entity without the attachment to the space/time physical complex is far more aware and without the gullibility which is somewhat the hallmark of those who love wholeheartedly.

However, the death, if natural, would undoubtedly be the more harmonious; the death by murder being confused and the entity needing some time/space in which to get its bearings, so to speak; the death by suicide causing the necessity for much healing work and, shall we say, the making of a dedication to the third-density for the renewed opportunity of learning the lessons set by the higher self.

(05-26-2009, 10:06 PM)Lavazza Wrote: I am not sure if it is public knowledge, well known, or if I would be invading the privacy of Carla and other L/L friends by asking, but why exactly did Don commit suicide? If the later please disregard the question.

(05-26-2009, 10:06 PM)Lavazza Wrote: I am not sure if it is public knowledge, well known, or if I would be invading the privacy of Carla and other L/L friends by asking, but why exactly did Don commit suicide? If the later please disregard the question.

(05-27-2009, 09:24 AM)3D Sunset Wrote: All I know is what I have read. Probably the most detailed account is that of Carla sprinkled throughout Book V, but especially her discussion before Fragment 56. It is also interesting to follow along between the sessions in Book IV and the Fragments in Book V to get a better picture of Don's psychological unraveling at the time.

(05-29-2009, 08:00 AM)ayadew Wrote: Hello, my friends. Thank you for your answers and thoughts.

It's my belief that the channeling of the Ra information has been a combined effort of many entities, and many many years of planning.
We read in book 5 for example, that according to Carla she died early in a previous life to prepare for this one.
There has likely been other entities protecting Ra from disruptions while the channeling took place, for to my knowledge this is the first direct contact from a 6th density entity on this planet (excluding Ra's visit to egypt).

ayadew Wrote:according to Carla she died early in a previous life to prepare for this one.

3D Sunset Wrote:I feel confident that Don Elkin's suicide did not involve this karmic requirement.

Bring4th_Monica Wrote:I'm having trouble understanding self-sabotage. There is someone in my life who's had so many opportunities, yet continues to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I am bewildered. I just don't understand the psychology of it.

(05-29-2009, 12:19 PM)Phoenix Wrote:

(05-29-2009, 08:00 AM)ayadew Wrote: Hello, my friends. Thank you for your answers and thoughts.

It's my belief that the channeling of the Ra information has been a combined effort of many entities, and many many years of planning.
We read in book 5 for example, that according to Carla she died early in a previous life to prepare for this one.
There has likely been other entities protecting Ra from disruptions while the channeling took place, for to my knowledge this is the first direct contact from a 6th density entity on this planet (excluding Ra's visit to egypt).

Could you tell me where in book 5 this was. I've read most of the books a couple of times and I cannot recall this.

In the Law of One, Book V, discussion prior to Fragment 4 Carla Wrote:I do personally believe that we incarnate many times, and that we fashion, through these cycles of manifestation, complex and meaningful relationships that root deeply within our beings. When Don and I met, he has said he knew for certain that we would be together. Since what immediately thereafter ensued for me was a four-year marriage to a fellow who wished not to be married, I once braced him for not having told me this home truth right then in 1962, and saved me that difficult four years. “What? And have you miss all that good catalyst?” he said.

Both Donald and Jim had a loving and generous regard of me that is amazing unless one introduces the concept of previous connections. I have no doubt that we have served together before, in other lives and other times. An interesting bit of possible past history was expressed years ago to Jim in a psychic reading: it was suggested that in the American great plains frontier of the nineteenth century, Don and Jim were brothers living together as farmers. I was Jim’s child, Don’s nephew, and I lived only to the age of five, being sickly from birth. This was suggested as being preparation for their taking care of me in this life, as I dealt with disability, limitation and especially psychic greeting during the time of the Ra contact. It rings true at some level with me. However, I also feel that we do not need to know anything of our past associations in order to learn and serve together at this present moment. We have all we need to meet the present moment. The rest is just details.

(05-25-2009, 06:43 PM)ayadew Wrote: So I thought, I had committed suicide once. But here I am again. Obviously this was a wasted effort. I must thank my higher self for bringing me these images, for they solidified for me the certainty that I would never commit suicide in this existence. One thing less to worry about.

(05-25-2009, 06:43 PM)ayadew Wrote: Obviously this was not destructive for me, in that life.

Quote:1. Life's purpose is complete (One aspect, I think, of Don's departure).
2. To aid in the life lesson of another self (I think this was a major part of Don's suicide, in that it created a massive catalyst for Carla that was a life lesson in self forgiveness for her).
3. Martyrdom

(06-03-2009, 06:06 AM)ayadew Wrote: I have only read book 1 of LOO, so thank you for presenting this part. Perhaps I should read more, but I feel Ra presented their main points in the first book, and that has been enough so far to keep my mind busy!

ayadew Wrote:Please note however, that when you placed limitations on yourself for the optimal learning/teaching and servitude in this life, it's possible that one can place an inclination/tendency of suicidal behaviour to explore this concept further. Although we all experience death, and 'live to die' and have suicidal thoughts, there is always the possibility of having this more than the 'average' person.

ayadew Wrote:Also, having a fully negative experience (for example ending in suicide, and utter despair) in this place, could be a massive catalyst for gratitude. We often remember our appreciation of things more when they've been removed from us.
Imagine the feeling of returning to a place of love, after you've had a lifetime of pure negativity. And the memory such a return would imprint! Not easily forgotten!

ayadew Wrote:As for my own suicide, it does seem like it achieved nothing really. The idea of karma does not resonate with me, however. Also that which I outlined above may contradict the matter of that you receive a karmic bond on 'meaningless' suicides

ayadew Wrote:... and such an experience might be in turn a martyrdom to remind friends higher up of how things can be.

ayadew Wrote:Etc... can bend your head around this matter forever

(06-03-2009, 02:32 AM)ayadew Wrote: That we see as destructive, is highly creative - changing, reforming, creative. Conscioussness is never destroyed, so nothing is ever lost

(05-29-2009, 02:05 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:

3D Sunset Wrote:I feel confident that Don Elkin's suicide did not involve this karmic requirement.

As someone who has benefitted immeasurably from Don Elkins' work, I certainly share this hope, even if I don't entirely share your confidence. (I believe Carla does, though.) To have someone lay down their life for you is weighty enough; to have them create the necessity for further third density incarnation just seems beyond the pale.

3D Sunset Wrote:It is a pleasure to be of service. I highly recommend the other four books. To me, Book I was more an introduction that was laden with a lot of transitory material which Don felt was needed to attract an audience. IMHO, the later Books delve into the real substance of the LOO. Additionally, I could only begin to comprehend some of the layers of wisdom contained in the books after multiple readings of all. It's interesting that throughout my life, I've enjoyed many books, but never read the same book twice until I found the LOO. To date, I've probably read each book at least a dozen times, with some (books two and four in particular) over twenty I'm sure.

3D Sunset Wrote:”To address this point, the discussion could easily become a little esoteric in the minutiae of the LOO, which I'm glad to do if you'd like to hear my rationale for this position, but otherwise suffice it say that my understanding of the LOO is that catalyst can only be experienced and processed by an entity during incarnation (or in space/time), not after death (or in time/space). As such, the catalyst is only usable during your life, not after it (whether it ended by suicide or any other means). So no, my understanding is that the opportunity to process such a catalyst after death does not exist, and any potential catalyst of gratitude would be wasted. ”

ayadew Wrote:ayadew Wrote:... and such an experience might be in turn a martyrdom to remind friends higher up of how things can be.

3D Sunset Wrote:Regardless, I stand behind my assertion that whether or not a suicide necessitates another 3D incarnation, is more a function of the intent behind the action, than the act itself. If the intention is avoidance, then I'm confident that another incarnation will be required. If the intention is service, then it probably will not. To your remembered prior suicide, it appears that, although the intent may not have been avoidance, it does seem to have been the result. Thus, you probably remembered that experience in order to keep it from recurring, and thus avoiding your intended lessons yet again. Am I incorrect in guessing that this prior life vision occurred in conjunction with a more than fleeting consideration of the topic of this thread?

ayadew Wrote:I cannot understand your reasoning here

(06-09-2009, 11:40 AM)ayadew Wrote: Upon death, I believe we both agree on that a highly possible concept is that Wanderers go back to their initial vibratory state / density and reunite with the parts of themselves they left behind.

Ra, Book I, Session 12 Wrote:Questioner: Are most of these (Wanderers) from the fourth density? Or what density do they come from?

Ra: I am Ra. Few there are of fourth density. The largest number of Wanderers, as you call them, are of the sixth density. The desire to serve must be distorted towards a great deal of purity of mind and what you may call foolhardiness or bravery, depending upon your distortion complex judgment. The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom of which it had incarnated to avert the destruction.

Ra, Book IV, Session 89 Wrote:Questioner: Were some of Ra’s population negatively harvested at the end of Ra’ s third density?

Ra: I am Ra. We had no negative harvest as such although there had been two entities which had harvested themselves during the third density in the negative or service-to-self path. There were, however, those upon the planetary surface during third density whose vibratory patterns were in the negative range but were not harvestable.
...
Questioner: What techniques did the two negatively harvested entities use for negative polarization upon such a positively polarized planet?

Ra: I am Ra. The technique of control over others and domination unto the physical death was used in both cases. Upon a planetary influence much unused to slaughter these entities were able to polarize by this means. Upon your third-density environment at the time of your experiencing such entities would merely be considered, shall we say, ruthless despots which waged the holy war.

Questioner: Did these two entities evolve from the second density of the planet Venus along with the rest of the population of Venus that became Ra from second density to third?

Ra: I am Ra. No.

Questioner: What was the origin of the two entities of which you speak?

Ra: I am Ra. These entities were Wanderers from early positive fifth density.

Questioner: And though they had already evolved through a positive fourth density they, shall we say, switched polarity in the reincarnating in third density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

ayadew Wrote:So, the real question is: what good is this learning experience. For what other reason do we chose to have parts remaining of ourselves, if not for individual learning?

Ra, Book III, Session 52 Wrote:Questioner: I would just include the question as to why the time of harvest is selected by so many Wanderers as time for incarnation?

Ra: I am Ra. There are several reasons for incarnation during harvest. They may be divided by the terms self and other-self.

The overriding reason for the offering of these Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow in incarnative states is the possibility of aiding other-selves by the lightening of the planetary consciousness distortions and the probability of offering catalyst to other-selves which will increase the harvest.

There are two other reasons for choosing this service which have to do with the self.

The Wanderer, if it remembers and dedicates itself to service, will polarize much more rapidly than is possible in the far more etiolated realms of higher density catalyst.

The final reason is within the mind/body/spirit totality or the social memory complex totality which may judge that an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfect. This especially applies to those entering into and proceeding through sixth-density wherein the balance between compassion and wisdom is perfected.

Ra, Book III, Session 65 Wrote:Questioner: Then each of the Wanderers here acts as a function of the biases he has developed in any way he sees fit to communicate or simply be in his polarity to aid the total consciousness of the planet. Is there any physical way in which he aids, perhaps by his vibrations somehow just adding to the planet just as electrical polarity or charging a battery? Does that also aid the planet, just the physical presence of the Wanderers?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct and the mechanism is precisely as you state. We intended this meaning in the second portion of our previous answer. You may, at this time, note that as with any entities, each Wanderer has its unique abilities, biases, and specialities so that from each portion of each density represented among the Wanderers come an array of preincarnative talents which then may be expressed upon this plane which you now experience so that each Wanderer, in offering itself before incarnation, has some special service to offer in addition to the doubling effect of planetary love and light and the basic function of serving as beacon or shepherd.

Thus there are those of fifth-density whose abilities to express wisdom are great. There are fourth and sixth-density Wanderers whose ability to serve as, shall we say, passive radiators or broadcasters of love and love/light are immense. There are many others whose talents brought into this density are quite varied.

Thus Wanderers have three basic functions once the forgetting is penetrated, the first two being basic, the tertiary one being unique to that particular mind/body/spirit complex.

ayadew Wrote:In my viewpoint, we, upon death, look over all parts of our life again and see what we could do better. We create for ourselves different outcomes of situations that was heavy with catalyst and of high importance to our life. We may see things in a different view, for example that some people that we decided to be our enemy could have been our treasured friends should things have gone a bit different. And that some we called trusted and giving friends were only using us.

We then incorporate this knowledge / learning into our Full self in the higher vibration.

This path is to truly learn from the experience we had here. What other / better way is there?

(07-17-2010, 04:03 PM)Joseph326 Wrote: Well, it looks like I'm adding to this discussion a bit late! I would like to share two thoughts.

(07-17-2010, 04:03 PM)Joseph326 Wrote: The 3 non-Karmic reasons that 3D Sunset introduced make a great deal of sense. I think it is possible there is a fourth reason to list. Could one have a need to move on to a different vehicle in order to accomplish something new that has been planned by the higher self? Perhaps on rare occasions it is necessary to leave the current vessel at a particular time to ensure that one is "on time" for the next incarnation, if they are planned that close together.

(07-17-2010, 04:03 PM)Joseph326 Wrote: The second thought I wanted to share has to do with the concept of Karma. Could it be possible that there is no need to 'pay for' actions and choices made while incarnated? What if choosing a certain action simply opened up the need to learn its opposite at some point in the future, in order to balance the self? In this way, it would not be necessary to have 'bad' or 'good' Karma but just open up a future opportunity to complete oneself further. Someone who responds to a catalyst with anger or hate might need to experience compassion in the future, for example. Every single choice ever is made by the Creator, so how could anything ever be wrong? Some things just necessitate further learning and balancing.

3D Sunset Wrote:Still, it seems to me that the situation you describe would more often manifest as the sudden onset of a disease, a systemic failure, or an accidental death. Recall, that in order for an entity to consciously recognize his/her higher purpose (especially a purpose greater than his/her 3D existence, as would be the case in your example) and thus decide that suicide is "necessary in order to move on", would require an entity that is profoundly in touch with his/her higher self and higher calling (indeed, even beyond that of his/her Earthbound purpose). It would seem to me that such individuals are exceedingly rare.

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. The number of entities thus harvested is small. However, a few have penetrated the eighth level which is only available from the opening up of the seventh through the sixth. Penetration into the eighth or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle.

Questioner: Are any of these people known in the history of our planet by name?

Ra: I am Ra. We will mention a few. The one known as Taras Bulba, the one known as Genghis Khan, the one known as Rasputin.

Questioner: How did they accomplish this? What was necessary for them to accomplish this?

Ra: I am Ra. All of the aforementioned entities were aware, through memory, of Atlantean understandings having to do with the use of the various centers of mind/body/spirit complex energy influx in attaining the gateway to intelligent infinity.

(07-20-2010, 09:25 AM)Namaste Wrote: It's also worth mentioning that Dolores Cannon, in this interview, talks indirectly about wanderers and the STO/STS path, along with many other Law of One aspects. Her knowledge is from thousands of past life regressions spanning decades of work. Well worth a watch.

She mentions that people incarnated here to help (wanderers), and came in three waves. The first wave found it very difficult, living in such a negative, dense world, and many committed suicide. The second wave of wanderers came more prepared, as did the third.