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Why do anything? - turtledude23 - 12-28-2011
We do things mainly because we want to or we're somehow coerced into doing it, the latter is a necessity of 3D existence though it can be minimized, but why do we do the former? Our interests and desires can change quickly and we follow them so long as they make us a feel satisfied, but where do they come from? We spend our whole lives following desires we don't understand the cause of and nature of. What if we did absolutely nothing and refused to follow any desire?
RE: Why do anything? - Oldern - 12-28-2011
(12-28-2011, 02:25 AM)turtledude23 Wrote: We do things mainly because we want to or we're somehow coerced into doing it, the latter is a necessity of 3D existence though it can be minimized, but why do we do the former? Our interests and desires can change quickly and we follow them so long as they make us a feel satisfied, but where do they come from? We spend our whole lives following desires we don't understand the cause of and nature of. What if we did absolutely nothing and refused to follow any desire?
Q'uo got this, do not worry. April 2, 2011 Channeling, Source: llr transcripts.
QUO Wrote:Jim: The question this evening is from T in Taiwan. “Q’uo, please tell us something about the seeking and the enlightenment of Gautama Siddhartha, aka, the Buddha. What does this story tell us about spiritual enlightenment?
(Carla channeling)
We are those known to you as the principle of Q’uo. We greet you in the love and in the light of the one infinite Creator, in whose service we attend this circle of seeking this evening. We wish to thank each of you for calling us to your group and for taking the time out of your lives to seek the truth in this manner. You help us greatly as we have offered our service to do just that, speak with those who ask on the questions they designate.
As always, before we begin we would ask each [of you] to use your discernment in listening to what we have to say, taking those things which are helpful from our thoughts and leaving the rest behind. We appreciate your doing this as it will ease our minds to know that we do not need to be concerned about infringing on your free will. Thank you for this consideration.
The query this evening has to do with the one known as Siddhartha, or the Buddha, and what he has to teach about spiritual enlightenment. We find in order to approach this in a way which may be more helpful, we would take some time to speak about the two strains of religious thought that are encapsulated in the teachings of the one known as Jesus the Christ and the one known as the Buddha.
Both entities, Jesus and Siddhartha, offer tremendous resources to those who are seeking the truth. They have different areas of appeal but that which they hold in common is powerful. To them both the seeking of the Creator, service to the Creator, time spent in the company of the Creator are all in all. To both, there is no priority greater than spiritual seeking. Both of them lived lives that indicated this preference, this concern, and this devotion.
There are two different styles of seeking when gazing at these two powerful and poignant beings. To one, knowing that his kingdom was not of this world, he nevertheless entered into the world with all of his heart and soul and nothing in his heart but love for all he saw. As he entered in, so his physical body was destroyed by that which he took upon himself: the suffering of the world. All suffering was taken into the self and accepted. That it destroyed his physical body was not that which was important to the one known as Jesus the Christ, but rather that he do his father’s bidding. “Not my will, but thine,” were his words.
The Buddha saw the same world and knew that he was not of it or part of it. Consequently, his path did not move into the open heart and take all of the suffering of the world into the self. Rather, he allowed the things of the world to fall away as they seemed to want to fall away in his view. Over the period of a lifetime he was able to investigate each path in the world and conclude that that was not his path. The principle of “neti-neti, not this and not that” [1] comes into play here. Thusly, as the Buddha allowed all to fall away except the seeking for the one Creator, the entity no longer was concerned with the suffering of the world except to pray that all suffering might cease. There was not the attempt to take on the suffering of the world; rather, the attempt was to allow the suffering of the one known as the Buddha to fall away and as suffering fell away from the Buddha, so it would fall away from the world.
RE: Why do anything? - Oceania - 12-28-2011
how would it fall away from the world?
RE: Why do anything? - Oldern - 12-28-2011
(12-28-2011, 07:39 AM)Oceania Wrote: how would it fall away from the world?
Here is the full text.
But the idea is that if you recognize something as your habit or your view or your dependance and you claim that it is not yours, and you are disciplined enough or working on being disciplined, it will fall off from you. And once there is nothing left to fall, you become one with the Creator.
RE: Why do anything? - Oceania - 12-28-2011
yeahbut how does it help those suffering?
RE: Why do anything? - Cyan - 12-28-2011
(12-28-2011, 02:25 AM)turtledude23 Wrote: We do things mainly because we want to or we're somehow coerced into doing it, the latter is a necessity of 3D existence though it can be minimized, but why do we do the former? Our interests and desires can change quickly and we follow them so long as they make us a feel satisfied, but where do they come from? We spend our whole lives following desires we don't understand the cause of and nature of. What if we did absolutely nothing and refused to follow any desire?
Because you want to do it.
You would do absolutely nothing and not follow any desire, because it is your desire
RE: Why do anything? - Oldern - 12-28-2011
(12-28-2011, 09:22 AM)Oceania Wrote: yeahbut how does it help those suffering?
Why should? Those "suffering" are just percieveing to suffer, because nothing can actually be lost.
RE: Why do anything? - Oceania - 12-28-2011
and those are just fancy words to someone suffering.
and i wasn't saying it should, i was referring to the part about it falling away from those suffering.
RE: Why do anything? - Oldern - 12-28-2011
(12-28-2011, 10:46 AM)Oceania Wrote: and those are just fancy words to someone suffering.
and i wasn't saying it should, i was referring to the part about it falling away from those suffering.
Well, in my opinion, and Ra have spoken about this as well, as did many religions (mostly in Buddhism/Hinduism), that there is a "shortcut" to reach the next level (or even further up), which is to become perfectly empty.
Polarity cannot touch that concept. The one throwing everything off of himself or herself simply uses his/her free will to open up and release all the weight that this Veil and this density holds. STS entities "ignore" others suffering that THEY have given service (they partially caused it!) - and that service means that they entangle themselves in this level of existence for one reason or another. Helping others is helping to unknot the ties and the chain of suffering - becoming totally empty is to burn out your connections and transcend.
I cannot possibly imagine that being achieved by me - simply because I have no desire to do so, as I enjoy meddling in a way that might be one day helpful to others and let me be part of this whole loving existence : ) -, but I see nothing wrong with it. It is quite inspiring, in fact. It is also consistent of what Bashar is saying: "Circumstances do not matter. Only your state of being does."
RE: Why do anything? - Diana - 12-28-2011
(12-28-2011, 02:25 AM)turtledude23 Wrote: We do things mainly because we want to or we're somehow coerced into doing it, the latter is a necessity of 3D existence though it can be minimized, but why do we do the former? Our interests and desires can change quickly and we follow them so long as they make us a feel satisfied, but where do they come from? We spend our whole lives following desires we don't understand the cause of and nature of. What if we did absolutely nothing and refused to follow any desire?
I see nothing wrong with desire basically, as it is needed, I think, in manifesting or creating.
To be clear about our purpose and intentions, would help define where our desires are coming from.
I think to evolve, we need to deal with what is in our selves. So, to refuse to follow desire may circumvent things we need to resolve or attend to. On the other hand, if this state is arrived at naturally, where desires just drop off and eventually are not there, then perhaps we lighten to the point where we no longer need to be here, except for service (but that would also be a desire).
Desire can be of a higher purpose, such as volunteering to come here at this time of great change to assist in some way.
So, in my opinion, the clearer we can be about our intentions, the more we can understand desires and where they come from.
One example: a new car. If we desire a new car to impress our friends because of a lack of self-esteem, then we have an opportunity to recognize that we need healing in that area. If we desire the new car because we buy into society's version of success, then we have an opportunity to recognize that we are giving our power away to arbitrary standards outside of ourselves. But we may desire the new car in line with our higher intentions: fits with our intentions of choosing a necessary device which is environmentally friendly (intention to be here and cause no harm while assisting), and fits with our intention to raise our level of joy which will add to the overall joy on the planet, and fits with the intention that we already share our wealth and this is a gift to our self.
RE: Why do anything? - kycahi - 12-28-2011
After he achieved happiness aka Nirvana, the Buddha spent the rest of his life trying to teach it to others. I am sure that many of them also achieved it, and more got closer to it than otherwise.
So that's how he went about ridding us of suffering: one entity at a time. It's still going on, thanks to many Buddhism teachers. That's not my religion or anything, just answering the question, For what it's worth.
RE: Why do anything? - turtledude23 - 12-28-2011
That Buddha transcript is my favourite one but it still doesn't answer my question about what desires are, where they come from, and what their purpose is.
(12-28-2011, 09:22 AM)Oceania Wrote: yeahbut how does it help those suffering?
1) You have to achieve something before you can teach it to others.
2) If you really want others to achieve something first you need to test if you can achieve it.
3) The higher you raise your vibration/consciousness the more the vibration/consciousness of those around you and the whole planet raise.
I suppose you could call it more selfish than taking on all the suffering of the whole world in your heart but its a means to an end and everyone is different. If Person A can achieve enlightenment through Path A but not Path B then why expect them to follow Path B because it sounds nicer? Maybe following path B would push person A past their limits and lead them to suicide, insanity or becoming STS. As far as I'm concerned it's a miracle we're all even alive right now and making it through life without killing everyone around us, so any path that makes someone happier and more peaceful is a good thing even if its not the "ideal" one in someone else's perspective.
RE: Why do anything? - Namaste - 12-28-2011
Desire is what draws experience/catalyst to us. It's incredibly valuable to contemplate where it comes from, and why.
1) Through the physical mind (distortion); usually in the form of materialism or some kind of personality 'enhancement', albeit physical, emotional, mental or spiritual.
2) Through the higher mind (intuition/inspiration); 'programming' by the higher self, helping one remember their reason for being here.
In both cases, the attracted catalyst will reflect ones state of being, and hence, will offer much opportunity for growth.
Of course, it depends entirely on the entity. A Wanderer, for example, may find themselves aligning with STO principles, being driven to iron out distortions and become a pure channel (not in the literal sense) of the Creator. Their desire seems to be coming from 'somewhere else'. Those here for 3D lessons, native to the density, will be generating desire based upon their own distortions; heavily dependant upon their upbringing and social/cultural pressure.
In both cases, the desires are perfect. It's all learning. That learning, over many incarnations, empowers the choice we each make; fear or love.
Desires offer us opportunity for expansion.
RE: Why do anything? - zenmaster - 12-28-2011
(12-28-2011, 08:24 PM)Namaste Wrote: Those here for 3D lessons, native to the density, will be generating desire based upon their own distortions; heavily dependant upon their upbringing and social/cultural pressure.The dependence on upbringing and social/cultural pressure is inversely proportional to polarization.
RE: Why do anything? - Namaste - 12-28-2011
(12-28-2011, 08:32 PM)zenmaster Wrote:(12-28-2011, 08:24 PM)Namaste Wrote: Those here for 3D lessons, native to the density, will be generating desire based upon their own distortions; heavily dependant upon their upbringing and social/cultural pressure.The dependence on upbringing and social/cultural pressure is inversely proportional to polarization.
If one was born into a loving family, encouraging the opening of the heart, how would this incur a mandatory inverse of STO (STS) polarity, if one did indeed desire to serve others?
Likewise, if one was inclined to serve the self, such an environment may prove opportune in further STS polarisation.
Would you care to elaborate?
RE: Why do anything? - zenmaster - 12-28-2011
(12-28-2011, 09:17 PM)Namaste Wrote:"...an adept is one which has freed itself more and more from the constraints of the thoughts, opinions, and bonds of other-selves."(12-28-2011, 08:32 PM)zenmaster Wrote:(12-28-2011, 08:24 PM)Namaste Wrote: Those here for 3D lessons, native to the density, will be generating desire based upon their own distortions; heavily dependant upon their upbringing and social/cultural pressure.The dependence on upbringing and social/cultural pressure is inversely proportional to polarization.
If one was born into a loving family, encouraging the opening of the heart,
how would this incur a mandatory inverse of STO (STS) polarity, if one did indeed desire to serve others?
Likewise, if one was inclined to serve the self, such an environment may prove opportune in further STS polarisation.
Would you care to elaborate?
RE: Why do anything? - Namaste - 12-29-2011
I realised that when meditating this morning ZM - you were talking in context of becoming independent, in which I agree.
The original point is that one's distortions are based upon their own experience.
RE: Why do anything? - AnthroHeart - 12-29-2011
(12-29-2011, 10:51 AM)Namaste Wrote: The original point is that one's distortions are based upon their own experience.
Are these unconscious or conscious distortions you're speaking about? Does experience have an unconscious part to it?
RE: Why do anything? - zenmaster - 12-29-2011
Distortions find expression in experience provided by self and other-self. Distortions are pre-incarnative, experience is chosen to elicit values and to find balance. Some need more outside pressure or support to seek, others need less. It depends on the individual. 3D natives and wanderers alike are "generating desire based upon their own distortions", do you not see that?
RE: Why do anything? - Namaste - 12-29-2011
Tom - it could be both. We are largely products of our environment and oppotunities. Some self made, some offered on a plate (pre incarnative)
ZM Wrote:Distortions are pre-incarnative
Are you implying that an incarnated entity has no ability to choose which distortions they prefer? They (we) do this on a moment by moment basis.
RE: Why do anything? - AnthroHeart - 12-29-2011
Well, a lot of my desires are obviously conscious or I wouldn't be perceiving them. But as to the root cause of the desire, that part is unconscious. I agree we are generating desire based on our distortions, but I'd clarify that by saying we generate desire through our biases.
RE: Why do anything? - Oceania - 12-30-2011
and there's nothing wrong with that. otherwise we wouldn't be here.
RE: Why do anything? - ThatZenGuy - 12-30-2011
(12-28-2011, 02:25 AM)turtledude23 Wrote: We do things mainly because we want to or we're somehow coerced into doing it, the latter is a necessity of 3D existence though it can be minimized, but why do we do the former? Our interests and desires can change quickly and we follow them so long as they make us a feel satisfied, but where do they come from? We spend our whole lives following desires we don't understand the cause of and nature of. What if we did absolutely nothing and refused to follow any desire?
According to Buddhist scriptures and what I understand. Worldly desires come from the 5 senses. The Buddhist scripture talks about this in the Diamond Sutra. The 5 senses are what your physical body use to understand this world, but if you are attached to its pleasures then it will lead to suffering. The mind attaches itself using the 5 senses and causes all sorts of catalyst.
Since all of the 5 sense will rise and fall, come and go, if you are attached to them it will lead to suffering because you are chasing impermanence. Seeking your higher self and seeking within to your eternal soul and essence is the only way to fill the void and end desires.
When you mediate, you go beyond the 5 senses. The state is pure being. In this state you are one with God, the Universe and your higher self in its purest form. God is love/light and your higher self and soul is no difference. You are the same droplet of water that is the Ocean of Love, the Universal Spirit.
There is a difference of sitting there doing nothing and sitting there meditating on pure being. Once you can turn Being to any action that you do, then it won't be doing things with worldly desire anymore. You do it out of love and through your higher self and soul.
"Do everything as a dedication. There is no menial work. There is no dirty job. There is nothing that is not worth your attention, because everything is composed of this universe. Every little particle of the universe belongs to the whole, and if we take care of a part it means that we're taking care of the whole." ~Supreme Master Ching Hai
RE: Why do anything? - zenmaster - 12-30-2011
(12-29-2011, 12:02 PM)Namaste Wrote: Tom - it could be both. We are largely products of our environment and oppotunities. Some self made, some offered on a plate (pre incarnative)No, I'm implying that distortions are pre-incarnative. The time/space development is a 'distortion' from some balance.
ZM Wrote:Distortions are pre-incarnative
Are you implying that an incarnated entity has no ability to choose which distortions they prefer? They (we) do this on a moment by moment basis.
RE: Why do anything? - Ankh - 12-30-2011
(12-28-2011, 11:37 AM)Oldern Wrote: Well, in my opinion, and Ra have spoken about this as well, as did many religions (mostly in Buddhism/Hinduism), that there is a "shortcut" to reach the next level (or even further up), which is to become perfectly empty.
Really? Did Ra talk about it? Would you mind to give me the sessions where they talked about it?
RE: Why do anything? - Oldern - 12-30-2011
(12-30-2011, 03:16 AM)Ankh Wrote:(12-28-2011, 11:37 AM)Oldern Wrote: Well, in my opinion, and Ra have spoken about this as well, as did many religions (mostly in Buddhism/Hinduism), that there is a "shortcut" to reach the next level (or even further up), which is to become perfectly empty.
Really? Did Ra talk about it? Would you mind to give me the sessions where they talked about it?
Just give me a few minutes, and I should find it
Got it:
Law of One, 11.8 Wrote:11.8 Questioner: Is there anyone in our history who is commonly known who went to a fourth-density self-service or negative type of planet or any who will go there?
Ra: I am Ra. The number of entities thus harvested is small. However, a few have penetrated the eighth level which is only available from the opening up of the seventh through the sixth. Penetration into the eighth or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle.
Law of One, 11.10 Wrote:11.10 Questioner: How did they accomplish this? What was necessary for them to accomplish this?
Ra: I am Ra. All of the aforementioned entities were aware, through memory, of Atlantean understandings having to do with the use of the various centers of mind/body/spirit complex energy influx in attaining the gateway to intelligent infinity.
Although at first glance it seems that these are all negatively harvested entities, I have seen no indications in Ra's answers that if one thing is possible in a realm of existence in a negative way, than there is no way for a positive harvest to occur in the same way, using slightly different methods. He does not mention negative harvest in the answer, after all.
RE: Why do anything? - Ankh - 12-30-2011
Thank you. I was interested if Ra said that the "shortcut" to the next level would involve by "becoming perfectly empty". What they speak of in the above quotes is by memory being aware of the use of various centers in it's own complex, thus finding the way to the gateway. But did they speak of finding the gateway by "becoming empty"?
RE: Why do anything? - turtledude23 - 12-30-2011
(12-30-2011, 03:16 AM)Ankh Wrote:(12-28-2011, 11:37 AM)Oldern Wrote: Well, in my opinion, and Ra have spoken about this as well, as did many religions (mostly in Buddhism/Hinduism), that there is a "shortcut" to reach the next level (or even further up), which is to become perfectly empty.
Really? Did Ra talk about it? Would you mind to give me the sessions where they talked about it?
Quote:52.7 Questioner: Am I correct, then, in assuming that discipline of the personality, knowledge of self, and control in strengthening of the will would be what any fifth-density entity would see as those things of importance?
Ra: I am Ra. In actuality these things are of importance in third through early seventh densities. The only correction in nuance that we would make is your use of the word, control. It is paramount that it be understood that it is not desirable or helpful to the growth of the understanding, may we say, of an entity by itself to control thought processes or impulses except where they may result in actions not consonant with the Law of One. Control may seem to be a short-cut to discipline, peace, and illumination. However, this very control potentiates and necessitates the further incarnative experience in order to balance this control or repression of that self which is perfect.
Instead, we appreciate and recommend the use of your second verb in regard to the use of the will. Acceptance of self, forgiveness of self, and the direction of the will; this is the path towards the disciplined personality. Your faculty of will is that which is powerful within you as co-Creator. You cannot ascribe to this faculty too much importance. Thus it must be carefully used and directed in service-to-others for those upon the positively oriented path.
There is great danger in the use of the will as the personality becomes stronger, for it may be used even subconsciously in ways reducing the polarity of the entity.
RE: Why do anything? - Ankh - 12-30-2011
Right. It seems that there are no short-cuts, but perhaps some entities who are able through memories to reach that gateway. Otherwise, it's work, work, work... Meaning for STO people, acceptance and forgiveness of the self, merging with that self, then other self, and finally the Creator...?
RE: Why do anything? - turtledude23 - 12-30-2011
(12-30-2011, 02:21 PM)Ankh Wrote: Right. It seems that there are no short-cuts, but perhaps some entities who are able through memories to reach that gateway. Otherwise, it's work, work, work... Meaning for STO people, acceptance and forgiveness of the self, merging with that self, then other self, and finally the Creator...?
That is a short cut though, as I see it any genuine conscious attempt to achieve enlightenment through those kinds of practices/disciplines is a short cut, because the long way is never reading a book like LOO, never thinking about your unconscious mind, and just dealing with one catalyst at a time as it happens.