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The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - Plenum - 07-08-2013
first of all; this is a touchy subject, so moderation may be required.
first of all (after the first of all), all things are permitted under Free Will; so there is no judgement one way or the other (regards the topic at hand).
but let's see what the Ra has to say about death and dying:
1) disease (deadly disease that is, say cancer, influenza in the old) serves a function of ceasing bodily viability when the time is right. This is usually the case when the life plan has been accomplished, and one can go home, or (more likely the case), that one has ignored the opportunities for poliarization in this lifetime, and the incarnation is ended by the Higher Self (or maybe not the higher self, but the significant self??).
Quote:76.20 Questioner: What was the form of disease, and why did this exist at beginning third density?
Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, that which you speak of as disease is a functional portion of the body complex which offers the body complex the opportunity to cease viability. This is a desirable body complex function. The second portion of the answer has to do with second-density other-selves of a microscopic, as you would call it, size which have in some forms long existed and perform their service by aiding the physical body complex in its function of ceasing viability at the appropriate space/time.
2) if you truly want to die, then your Higher Self will make such possibilities happen for you; no need to take it into your own hands. This was the case with Carla as a teenager, dealing with extreme self-worth issues:
Quote:63.2 Questioner: Was the original problem with the kidneys some 25 years ago caused by psychic attack?
Ra: I am Ra. This is only partially correct. There were psychic attack components to the death of this body at that space/time. However, the guiding vibratory complex in this event was the will of the instrument. This instrument desired to leave this plane of existence as it did not feel it could be of service.
63.3 Questioner: You are saying that the instrument itself then created the kidney problem at that time?
Ra: I am Ra. The instrument’s desire to leave this density lowered the defenses of an already predisposed weak body complex, and an allergic reaction was so intensified as to cause the complications which distorted the body complex towards unviability.
The will of the instrument, when it found that there was indeed work to be done in service, was again the guiding factor or complex of vibratory patterns which kept the body complex from surrendering to dissolution of the ties which cause the vitality of life.
in both cases, you may see the will of the self (the lower self, or incarnational self) having the Determining Say in what goes on. Want to die? then ways will be found. Want to live? then ways will be found.
that is the true almighty power of Free Will of the incarnated self.
- -
So you see, Carla did die as per her wish, but she met the Holy Spirit in the Tunnel of Light (from what I remember of her story) and was given the chance to come back, and give things another shot.
and aren't we glad that she did?!!! No Carla, means no Ra group (Don, Carla, and Jim), and absolutely no Ra contact.
so who says that a life is unworthy to continue in operation?
- -
plenum
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - GentleReckoning - 07-08-2013
Oooh, ooh. I do!
Free will + Confusion = Suicide.
It's how the stage is set, and you already mentioned we're not judging those that choose this exit.
You would be hard pressed to find me recommending the premature ending of an incarnation, but as it can be done, so shall it be done.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - AnthroHeart - 07-09-2013
Suicide is something that has often been on my mind, though I haven't had a particularly stressful life. Things have been good. Just that I get tired sometimes spiritually. Physically I have energy.
That's something to say about the higher self finding a way if you really want to die.
I thought it was a violation of your free will to end your life, or to have the higher self end your life.
I think I just miss things on the other side. Where there is unconditional love, and no duality.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - Jeremy - 07-09-2013
I guess my life hasn't really been bad enough to even contemplate something like this. I mean, even when I was dealing with a manic depressed/bipolar wife with delusions while surviving on 4 hours of sleep for 6 months, taking care of my daughter, working full time, getting evicted, getting a knife shoved in my face while my wife held our daughter, thrown in jail because of a lie by my wife, subjected to sleeping on my parents living room floor while only being able to visit my daughter under supervision every other week, car breaking down once a month, etc and I still never even thought about it once.
I guess I always had my daughter to think about but it just simply was never an option that ever arose in my mind. Maybe I've always known that we had more work to do so leaving early would have accomplished nothing.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - kanonathena - 07-09-2013
(07-09-2013, 08:02 PM)Jeremy Wrote: I guess my life hasn't really been bad enough to even contemplate something like this. I mean, even when I was dealing with a manic depressed/bipolar wife with delusions while surviving on 4 hours of sleep for 6 months, taking care of my daughter, working full time, getting evicted, getting a knife shoved in my face while my wife held our daughter, thrown in jail because of a lie by my wife, subjected to sleeping on my parents living room floor while only being able to visit my daughter under supervision every other week, car breaking down once a month, etc and I still never even thought about it once.
I guess I always had my daughter to think about but it just simply was never an option that ever arose in my mind. Maybe I've always known that we had more work to do so leaving early would have accomplished nothing.
Wow, you seem to have a very difficult life. I hope you are well.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - Adonai One - 07-10-2013
For whatever reason, my teenage ideations of suicide have not affected my health at all. In fact, I came pretty close to ending this incarnation but was only stopped by being unable to find a weapon. Haha.
I suspect I enjoy the pain and drudgery of this existence deep inside. The fact is I enjoy being depressed. Maybe this is why it doesn't manifest as health concerns? Perhaps I really want to be here?
This existence is, indeed, wonderful because I find it so existentially burdening. Hopefully by the end of this short existence I'll be able to see the other side of this coin and become the drudgery itself.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - Hototo - 07-10-2013
Suicide huh...
*smoke billows*
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - Jeremy - 07-10-2013
(07-09-2013, 10:30 PM)kanonathena Wrote:(07-09-2013, 08:02 PM)Jeremy Wrote: I guess my life hasn't really been bad enough to even contemplate something like this. I mean, even when I was dealing with a manic depressed/bipolar wife with delusions while surviving on 4 hours of sleep for 6 months, taking care of my daughter, working full time, getting evicted, getting a knife shoved in my face while my wife held our daughter, thrown in jail because of a lie by my wife, subjected to sleeping on my parents living room floor while only being able to visit my daughter under supervision every other week, car breaking down once a month, etc and I still never even thought about it once.
I guess I always had my daughter to think about but it just simply was never an option that ever arose in my mind. Maybe I've always known that we had more work to do so leaving early would have accomplished nothing.
Wow, you seem to have a very difficult life. I hope you are well.
I'm great actually. Though all of that is still a memory, it doesn't affect me in the least even when my wife and I are on the verge of reconciliation. I had come to the conclusion that I needed to learn patience and forgiveness for which I am grateful.
The subsequent woman I dated after my wife and I split further reinforced the forgiveness aspect when I found out she had was already dating someone else whilen we met after we had already been together for a couple months and shared quite a connection. Through this betrayal, I sat in meditation immediately following the discovery while I was in her apartment. Suddenly, I started forgiving everyone including her, my wife, and even my biological father whom I've never met. It was the most intense spiritual high I have been on yet.
This all has also given me the much needed time alone to discover this wonderful philosophy and path so if this is what was needed to get where I am now, it was totally worth it
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - Jade - 07-10-2013
I think this is an interesting subject, one I was even just pondering yesterday. One thing to take into consideration is how your suicide (whether deliberate or subconscious) affects others' life plans. Any death, especially suicide, has a ripple affect on those in the life around the deceased. I am sure some of that is affected by the deceased maybe feeling/actually being able to operate better in a different density? Who knows.
What I was specifically thinking of was the case of the Collins brothers, when one brother committed suicide, his dying wish was for his family to go out to eat and donate $500 to an unsuspecting server working at a pizza shop. The family recorded the interaction and put it on youtube, and so many people have been touched to do their own generous giving, and now the surviving brother is "forced" to travel around the country, tipping servers $500, because of all of the online donations and support he's still being given a year later. Could this man have done the same work alive? Perhaps, maybe, maybe even better. Did his "sacrifice" in the end make the world a tangibly better place? I think so.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - Spaced - 07-10-2013
My girlfriend attempted suicide twice. I'm very glad she didn't succeed because then I would never have met her.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - AnthroHeart - 07-10-2013
I've attempted it once, poorly, and another time I thought about it as I was in a panic. Just didn't have a way the 2nd time. Many other times it's crossed my mind of how I could do it painlessly. But then I wouldn't make 4D or higher, and have to repeat 3D.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - 3nT - 07-17-2013
I as well have flirt with the idea of ending this incarnation, but never attempted, just thought about it. My life has been a very lovely one, besides suffering from severe acne from the age of 11 until I was about 29. The reasons for wanting to end this illusion has been the perpetual feeling on not belonging, this feeling of not been liked, or is it that I take "all this" too seriously? The curios thing is that I intellectually appreciate "the moment" and in particular very emotionally intense moments.
In regards to the ethics of suicide, I've always knew that if I did it, i would regret it dearly, not for been judge by my over soul, or the creator, but for the chain reaction that I know that action would create in the entire universe.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - AnthroHeart - 07-17-2013
My thoughts for pondering suicide were having to work. I get so restless and jittery when having to work for other people.
Plus thinking about non-physical reality. But all the experiences of NDE's when suicide was attempted that I have seen did not turn out well. They'd find themselves in a scary realm. Or realize they had made a mistake. I don't want to regret making a mistake like that. Plus, finding a way to suicide would be difficult, because they're all painful. No easy way out. My love of furries, anthros, and my pets keeps me here as well. It gives me a reason to love life. I admire certain furry art and music videos.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - 3nT - 07-17-2013
My frustration is not remembering what is it that I came here for, so in a way my thing is "Having work to do" and not knowing. The pain I can take, what I can't take is the pain that I would cause. I don't linger at all in my past incarnations; too concern with the present one, but I do remember been a warrior monk and a healer woman, I'm sure learn the value of life.
Reasons to live is the task of this incarnation...I have a feeling that I'm going to help a lot of people, so my fear is that if I commit suicide I wont be able to help.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - AnthroHeart - 07-17-2013
I had a flash of memory of past life where I killed a wolf that was my pet, to help out the tribe. This was before I had a schizophrenic episode and stabbed my dog in real life. But I've forgiven myself. I too don't linger with my past incarnations.
I too am concerned 3nT that if I committed suicide I wouldn't be able to help others. But can't get past those nagging thoughts.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - Melissa - 07-17-2013
I've pondered frequently and thoroughly about suicide these past months and came to the conclusion that what I truly desire is to live, love and laugh like there's no tomorrow. So here we go.
However, I think there ought to be a place where people can 'transition' ever so painlessly if they truly want to. Although I believe most people are greatly supported if they are able to reside in an enviroment where they can just Be. Perhaps a 'real life' community such as this one.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - GentleReckoning - 07-17-2013
(07-17-2013, 03:37 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: I had a flash of memory of past life where I killed a wolf that was my pet, to help out the tribe. This was before I had a schizophrenic episode and stabbed my dog in real life. But I've forgiven myself. I too don't linger with my past incarnations.
You think that is why you stabbed your dog this time around? To force yourself to deal with guilt that you may not have dealt with in a previous incarnation?
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - AnthroHeart - 07-17-2013
(07-17-2013, 03:50 PM)GentleReckoning Wrote:(07-17-2013, 03:37 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: I had a flash of memory of past life where I killed a wolf that was my pet, to help out the tribe. This was before I had a schizophrenic episode and stabbed my dog in real life. But I've forgiven myself. I too don't linger with my past incarnations.
You think that is why you stabbed your dog this time around? To force yourself to deal with guilt that you may not have dealt with in a previous incarnation?
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - Plenum - 07-17-2013
(07-17-2013, 03:40 PM)Notalone Wrote: I've pondered frequently and thoroughly about suicide these past months and came to the conclusion that what I truly desire is to live, love and laugh like there's no tomorrow. So here we go.
there's a beauty in the well-lived life ... despite the many difficulties and challenges one might face.
there were points in my life where I thought - 'no change is possible from where I am now. It's just going to repeat like this day after day, forever'. And yet, here I am today, a happy little plenum, doing my schtick, and having the time of my life <silly grin>.
it's been great getting to know you these past few months Mel. You're a very sensitive, wise individual, with so much heart and generosity.
plenum
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - Melissa - 07-17-2013
(07-17-2013, 03:55 PM)plenum Wrote:(07-17-2013, 03:40 PM)Notalone Wrote: I've pondered frequently and thoroughly about suicide these past months and came to the conclusion that what I truly desire is to live, love and laugh like there's no tomorrow. So here we go.
there's a beauty in the well-lived life ... despite the many difficulties and challenges one might face.
there were points in my life where I thought - 'no change is possible from where I am now. It's just going to repeat like this day after day, forever'. And yet, here I am today, a happy little plenum, doing my schtick, and having the time of my life <silly grin>.
it's been great getting to know you these past few months Mel. You're a very sensitive, wise individual, with so much heart and generosity.
plenum
Plen, you've always been very patient and supportive during some 'weird' episodes -which I appreciate greatly. I admire your sense of balance and clarity. Thanks for sharing your beingness my friend. Love ya dearly
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - Wai - 07-17-2013
(07-08-2013, 10:10 PM)plenum Wrote: 1) Disease (deadly disease that is, say cancer, influenza in the old) serves a function of ceasing bodily viability when the time is right. This is usually the case when the life plan has been accomplished, and one can go home, or (more likely the case), that one has ignored the opportunities for poliarization in this lifetime, and the incarnation is ended by the Higher Self (or maybe not the higher self, but the significant self??).
. . . .
2) if you truly want to die, then your Higher Self will make such possibilities happen for you; no need to take it into your own hands.
Thanks for bringing up this, Plenum.
I need reminding from time to time as I get thoughts on suicide and giving up, now and then.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - Jade - 07-18-2013
I love you Miss Notalone, I look forward to laughing with you many times in the future!
I've contemplated suicide before. Recently, even. It's almost guaranteed to cross my mind when I get a migraine that's too intense. Extreme pain does some crazy things to the mind.
My husband has been going through some catalyst recently and he sighed it halfway in jest a few times over the past few days. Halfway. :S I just try to remind myself that it's a privilege to be here on Earth, and I'm not too keen on starting all over from scratch, or just giving up. If I can't make it, how can I expect to ever help others to make it? Gotta keep going for those other-selves.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - cosmickitten2012 - 07-25-2013
Is there a serious answer to this question? I tried several times in my life to end it. My daughter succeeded in it. The sick feeling of this is disabling and confusing, so really is there a serious answer? From one who knows the true horror of pain in suicide!
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - Guardian - 07-25-2013
Depends on the situation.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - AnthroHeart - 07-25-2013
I'm getting eye surgery to correct my vision, so I'm investing in myself. This says a lot about someone who used to want to end it. It says I want to survive. And I'm investing a lot to do it.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - BrownEye - 07-25-2013
(07-10-2013, 02:01 PM)Guenivere Wrote: One thing to take into consideration is how your suicide (whether deliberate or subconscious) affects others' life plans.
Back in my party days I left the body during OD. I was slightly aware of dying, but there was no care.
I started to see snapshots of the future, and there was a realization that the timing was "wrong", and I came back. When I think back to this there was the concept of no meaning to the death, and the confusion that spread through everyone afterwards.
Thinking now, there is the slightest memory of a death with meaning that I guess is programmed. This might mean that I have a planned "ripple".
http://afterlifedata.com/afterlife_topics.php?topicid=70&secid=2
http://www.powerfulintentions.org/group/bashar/forum/topics/bashar-on-suicide-various-quotes
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - Truth Addict - 07-26-2013
Fascinating material from Ra. A lot of people say that when you wanna die, you do, and that those that want to cure with cancer do so, that the will to live plays a large role. It has been scientifically proven at this point that the immune system its closely related with our mood.
But what I would like Ra to answer its what happens when you suicide. Do you get glued into some kind of underworld because of your low vibrational field? Imagine the feelings and thoughts of someone that kills himself, commiting a crime against himself and the people that care about him/her (if any). Also, there is an spiritual difference between "promoting" your death via higher self and forcing it 3d-style? To be clear, I sense quite clearly that if I suicide the situation for me wouldnt be better than the one at hand, which I am improving slowly from hellish to bearable. I could even hear a voice once when drugged out trying to convince me of killing myself, so I think there are entities that would clap seeing me giving up in the game. They cannot directly override free will but they try to make people cause havoc.
(07-09-2013, 08:02 PM)Jeremy Wrote: I guess my life hasn't really been bad enough to even contemplate something like this. I mean, even when I was dealing with a manic depressed/bipolar wife with delusions while surviving on 4 hours of sleep for 6 months, taking care of my daughter, working full time, getting evicted, getting a knife shoved in my face while my wife held our daughter, thrown in jail because of a lie by my wife, subjected to sleeping on my parents living room floor while only being able to visit my daughter under supervision every other week, car breaking down once a month, etc and I still never even thought about it once.What you have gone trough its pretty rough.
I guess I always had my daughter to think about but it just simply was never an option that ever arose in my mind. Maybe I've always known that we had more work to do so leaving early would have accomplished nothing.
I think its has more to do with deep motivators such as karmic/spiritual stuff and the physiological processes of the brain, affected either from traumas, genetics of toxins. I say this because since I was born I had this so-rooted belief that one day I would probably suicide. Or maybe thats a slight exaggeration, but overall I have been always quite suicidal, at least mentally. My mother even tells that when in the kindergarten they were telling us about blood donations and I raised my hand to say seriously that I wanted to die. Looking back it was just something that arose naturally from the feelings that this place,the things on it and the events of my life made me feel. I have Asperger Syndrome for the record, never feel really comfortable with people around, and some history of abuse, and three years of unrefreshing sleep and insomnia among other s*** recently. But I was ironically a lot worse when my problems were "just" mental. On other words, my thesis about this is, if you feel pain enough, you will want to die or think about it at some point. Did I ever ask to die? Yes, but just once, and I suspect I wasnt absolutely sincere, as dying actually scares me. I do remember screaming in the middle of the night from the intense pelvic pain, cursing my higher self and promising solemnly that once I die I would go and punish whoever was responsible of the planification of this incarnation, crying, ruffling and almost foaming like a damned. Imagining astral figures in podiums in front of me, and me becoming pure energy of harm with rays of sharp endings to take revenge. LoL yeah I chose a funny ride, or someone chose it for me.
But now I am a lot better, since I am becoming very aware that this is a game that you can win and we are infinite consciousnes and stuff (also my penis doesnt hurt as much)
. Just wanted to let you guys know how its to be inside someone that has lived always in his own portable hell, so you can maybe get a glimpse of why some decide to take their life.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - AnthroHeart - 07-26-2013
I once thought I was being harvested negative and that I was going into a negative world that I had created because I violated others free will. Then I contemplated suicide but didn't have sleeping pills with which to take. Now I've learned that suicide is as easy as burning charcoal in a closed space to die from carbon monoxide poisoning. If you're asleep, probably the most painless way to go. I read about different suicide methods, and could never bring myself to shooting myself in the head. That for one would probably cause massive headaches in the next incarnation. The method of death may determine what problems you encounter in another life. I'm doing pretty good in this life. No headaches, and no trouble breathing, so I probably didn't kill myself in a recent life.
Thank you BrownEye for those links. Very informative.
I liked Bashar's idea of if you're centered, and wish to leave, and have no doubts about it, you can close your eyes and just depart without suicide.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - Hototo - 07-26-2013
I've started to feel that if I Really wanted to die. I would need to stand up and look up and say "beam me up scotty" and that would be that. Still, i contemplate suicide, self pain, and so forth a great deal, which is a paradox. I feel about death the same way I feel about a rollercoaster. I really really want to ride it, but not today.
RE: The Spiritual Ethics of Suicide - AnthroHeart - 07-26-2013
Not today for me either. I'm too anxious about how it will be with 20/20 vision without glasses after my LASIK operation.