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Free Will - Confused - Lavazza - 01-08-2009
Hi everyone,
As we know, something Ra and Q'uo are determined to do is maintain our free will by not giving us information that would alter our evolution in any way... The information given is always open to be interpreted in whatever way we chose to interpret it, because each individual must have the ability to make whatever choices they want for themselves. For example, although it would no doubt be easy for Q'uo to do, he/she/they would never give us the results of tomorrow's rugby match, because even something as non-relevant as that with regards to our evolution would have profound implications on how we move forward. (In a similar way that characters in sci-fi movies are oh so careful not to make any changes when they go back in time, less they significantly impact the present and future).
This is all and well, but I guess I just still don't quite understand. How can these entities give us ANY information at all, without violating our free will? I mean, the information is certainly, certainly welcome beyond all the means that I could express. I think the information has been crucial to the spiritual development of who knows how many people. But there's the paradox, we're changing the way we think and do things based on what's given. Even if it's a good thing, isn't it a violation of free will? Or are these entities not in violation because we have chosen to read the material, or made a request for it on an unconscious level? (hope I haven't just answered my own question there). If the Ra material suddenly came up in all the top newspapers in the world, would that then be the free will violation?
The other confusing part of the free will idea is how Q'uo sort of passes off the free will responsibility on to the reader. At the start of most sessions Q'uo asks that we use our judgment on what is said, so that they might speak more freely. We should hold on to what resonates, and discard what does not. What does this imply, exactly? Q'uo tells us what they know to be the truth, which we can probably assume is almost always accurate coming from their position compared to ours. If I read something that does not resonate, how can I know that it is not true, vs. something that I am simply not comfortable with? For example, there are a lot of things I see in the news that I am not comfortable with (and some times can hardly believe), yet I won't deny that they aren't happening or true. Am I perhaps thinking about this the wrong way?
Very interested to hear your thoughts. And I have to add that I'm simply overjoyed that we have this forum to chat these things up with!
RE: Free Will - Confused - Monica - 01-08-2009
(01-08-2009, 01:49 AM)Lavazza Wrote: Or are these entities not in violation because we have chosen to read the material, or made a request for it on an unconscious level? (hope I haven't just answered my own question there).
I think you just answered your own question!
They can give info in response to the calling. We call by reading the books. We also call unconsciously. They hear our call and respond.
30 years ago, Ra was not able to give specifics that Q'uo was later able to provide...because that info had already become known by the collective consciousness. And, even so, it cannot be given as an absolute, because there are still those who would choose to not avail themselves of this info.
(01-08-2009, 01:49 AM)Lavazza Wrote: The other confusing part of the free will idea is how Q'uo sort of passes off the free will responsibility on to the reader. At the start of most sessions Q'uo asks that we use our judgment on what is said, so that they might speak more freely. We should hold on to what resonates, and discard what does not. What does this imply, exactly? Q'uo tells us what they know to be the truth, which we can probably assume is almost always accurate coming from their position compared to ours. If I read something that does not resonate, how can I know that it is not true, vs. something that I am simply not comfortable with? For example, there are a lot of things I see in the news that I am not comfortable with (and some times can hardly believe), yet I won't deny that they aren't happening or true. Am I perhaps thinking about this the wrong way?
Many of us already accept much of what Ra/Q'uo say because we trust them. But a new person reading the material for the first time might not yet have reached that same conclusion. They might be assessing the material.
I'm not sure how to answer the second part of your question, about the resonance...the LOO has always given me comfort as well as resonance. I would suggest that any parts of the material that make you uncomfortable be set aside for future reference...perhaps it will become relevant at some future time...or maybe not. Use the parts that are relevant and don't worry too much about the rest.
Hope that helps!
RE: Free Will - Confused - Bring4th_Steve - 01-08-2009
Hi Lavazza! I hope I can help to bring some clarity based on my own understanding. I'm positive that others will have their own helpful views as well.
Quote:How can these entities give us ANY information at all, without violating our free will?The most succinct answer I can articulate is that confederation entities can give us information because all teachings are rooted in the universal truth that All is One. Everything is based on timeless truths, grounded in the name of love, which is the Infinite Creator. So if you were to go out and change your will to do something that was a topic within a channeled session, you would only be doing things to help further understand yourself in the name of Love. It's when we begin to look at "transient" information, (like, what are the winning lottery numbers?) that humanity has proven thousands of years ago that we can't handle knowing the future because we become selfish with it, and use that knowledge as power over others. Look at how we abused the Egyptian pyramids! I believe that is why they do not wish to further infringe upon our will. More like, "impress" upon our will the language of love, in its many expressions, with the hope that you will resonate with the expressions for contemplation and further growth.
Quote:We should hold on to what resonates, and discard what does not. What does this imply, exactly?
This one is a little easier for me to answer. Q'uo disclaims themselves with this language because they are very careful to not be seen as an idol, God, or elite source with all the answers. It serves as a focal point of the discussion to remember to look at them as you would your neighbor or teacher from high school. They can see a lot more than we can behind the veil, and they have experienced things we have not. Therefore they can speak as if they have the answers to everything, creating the problem of us getting lazy and not wanting to do any of the seeking ourselves!
Most importantly, however! Q'uo makes the statement to discard what you don't resonate with because everyone is evolving at different stages. A truth that I read from Q'uo may or may not be something I am ready to hear, absorb, and live by! I may still have 5 rounds of catalyst in my troubled relationship before I can truly appreciate the meaning of a specific teaching by Q'uo. Everyone is different; everyone resonates with different information based on their own level of spiritual evoluation. Q'uo realizes this, and wants us to be reminded that we need to think for ourselves and to look within for the answer that best applies towards our continued growth. If something Q'uo says feels good to hear, then ponder it and go with it! If you feel confused by something they say, or you feel like you can't accept it, then simply dismiss it for now, and thank yourself and the Creator for the opportunity to see this conflict within yourself.
So it's not about resonating with what Q'uo says as being "true" or "factual" information, as you have referenced in your news example. It's more about your heart feeling as if it accepts the truth that Q'uo delivers. There is an automatic assumption that the truth is given to us because it is asked for in the name of the Infinite Creator at the start of each channeling session, something that Carla does to tune herself as a receiver of truth, only.
I hope this helps some!
Take care,
Steve
RE: Free Will - Confused - Lavazza - 01-08-2009
Thanks Dreaming, and Steve, those responses do help clear things up quite a bit. The first part of the free will question, the infringing part, is still a bit of a mystery to me, but it helps to use the 'transient vs. spiritual' theme as a basis of what can and cannot be shared. Then again, at the very start of the Ra communications they talk to some extent about how the pyramids were constructed which I think is fairly 'earthbound' information. Incidentally I read elsewhere that Ra made it clear that this was unimportant information to seek, and that he constantly made them 're-align' items in the room to symbolically communicate that the questions themselves needed to be re-aligned. Sort of a fun side tangent there. But regardless, when Don asked about the pyramids Ra did explain. Perhaps Ra knew that en-mass, society would reject this notion? But still, how can Ra explain the pyramids and at the same time Q'uo will not explain to L/L Research about the status of a book with a publisher? (A session somewhere in Jan '06 this is talked about). This part of free will is still a mystery to me. But it's fun trying to figure it out, no?
The second part I completely understand now, and thank you. I had assumed that what they meant was "this is either true, or false, and you need to determine which it is", where they're really saying "this is a truth, but only for you to heed at a certain point in your journey". That makes sense.
The quest for understanding continues!
RE: Free Will - Confused - Bring4th_Steve - 01-09-2009
(01-08-2009, 11:19 PM)Lavazza Wrote: Incidentally I read elsewhere that Ra made it clear that this was unimportant information to seek, and that he constantly made them 're-align' items in the room to symbolically communicate that the questions themselves needed to be re-aligned. Sort of a fun side tangent there.
Really?! I never heard that! That is fascinating. Do you know if Don was aware of this communication?
Hmmm. The more I think about this, the more it seems odd that Ra would say such a thing. Wasn't it only at the beginning or end of a session when Don would ask if there is anything that needs to be done to make the instrument more comfortable? So for Ra to request that the incense stick be moved 1.5 degrees before any questions are asked, or after all questions are done, seems a little confusing.. But fun, if that's the case!
RE: Free Will - Confused - Monica - 01-09-2009
(01-09-2009, 02:12 AM)Bring4th_Steve Wrote:(01-08-2009, 11:19 PM)Lavazza Wrote: Incidentally I read elsewhere that Ra made it clear that this was unimportant information to seek, and that he constantly made them 're-align' items in the room to symbolically communicate that the questions themselves needed to be re-aligned. Sort of a fun side tangent there.
Really?! I never heard that! That is fascinating. Do you know if Don was aware of this communication?
Hmmm. The more I think about this, the more it seems odd that Ra would say such a thing. Wasn't it only at the beginning or end of a session when Don would ask if there is anything that needs to be done to make the instrument more comfortable? So for Ra to request that the incense stick be moved 1.5 degrees before any questions are asked, or after all questions are done, seems a little confusing.. But fun, if that's the case!
Oh wow. I just went, 'duh, but of course!'
I'd always thought the alignment thing seemed a bit odd...now it just hit me, wow, so that's why! It was a clever way of getting the point across.
But did they get it at the time, or only figure it out later? Lavassa, I am curious where you read that.
RE: Free Will - Confused - 3D Sunset - 01-09-2009
(01-09-2009, 04:29 AM)DreamingPeace Wrote: But did they get it at the time, or only figure it out later? Lavassa, I am curious where you read that.
This is discussed in detail in the prelude to the various fragments contained in Book V. Here's an example from Jim's perspective:
Quote:Fragment 3
Session 8, January 26, 1981
Jim: Early in the Ra contact we received answers to our questions which fell into a controversial portion of our third-density illusion. Almost everyone, at some point within the study of the paranormal, spends some time being fascinated by the so-called “conspiracy theories” which have generally to do with the supposedly unseen groups and individuals who are said to be the real powers behind governments and their activities in the world today. Such theories usually hold that the news reports that we hear and read concerning politics, economics, the military, and so forth are but the tip of a very large iceberg that has mainly to do with various schemes for world domination and which function through the secret activities of this small, elite group of human beings and their alien allies.
The following information falls into this category and resulted from a follow-up question Don asked about UFOs and their sources. You will note Don’s incredulous attitude throughout this portion of his questioning. It was our decision to remove this information from Book One of The Law of One because we felt it to be entirely unimportant and of a transient nature since knowing it adds nothing to one’s ability or desire to seek the truth and the nature of the evolutionary process, whether the information is true or not. In fact, knowing and continuing to seek this kind of information can become a major stumbling block to one’s spiritual journey because it removes one’s attention from the eternal truths which may serve anyone’s journey—at any time—and places it upon that which is only of fleeting interest and of little use spiritually. Concentrating on conspiracy theories and their participants tends to reinforce the illusion of separation and ignores the love that binds all things as One Being. If we had continued to pursue this particular line of questioning, or any other line of questioning of a transient nature, we would soon have lost the contact with those of Ra
because, as Ra mentioned in the very first session, Ra communicated with us through a “narrow band” of vibration or wave length.
Through various clues that Ra gave us when Don asked about the alignments at the end of each session, we were able to determine that this “narrow band” meant that only information of the purest and most precise nature concerning the process of the evolution of mind, body, and spirit could be successfully transmitted on a sustainable basis through our instrument. To ask Ra questions of a transient nature would be like trying to run a finely-tuned engine on crude petroleum.
3D Sunset
RE: Free Will - Confused - Monica - 01-09-2009
I was referring to the alignments, but thanks for posting this! It's relevant now more than ever, with so many mixed-polarity messages out there...with all the focus on reptilians and the like.
RE: Free Will - Confused - 3D Sunset - 01-09-2009
(01-09-2009, 02:52 PM)DreamingPeace Wrote: I was referring to the alignments, but thanks for posting this! It's relevant now more than ever, with so many mixed-polarity messages out there...with all the focus on reptilians and the like.
Sorry, that probably wasn't the best example, but Jim did mention the alignments toward the end of the quote. Here's a better example also from Book V.
Quote:Fragment 8, Session 17:
Carla: Donald was a scientist, and he never could quite accept that Ra was in no position to chat with us about phenomena that can be measured. The desire that had brought Ra to our group was a true desire for non-transient material, and this desire fueled our sessions. When we departed from that level of information, Ra would remind us to get back on track in a subtle way: by telling us to watch our alignments. We at first took them literally and thought they were referring to the items on the altar, to getting them lined up rightly. Later, we figured out that they were grading our questions, not our Bible and candle placement. It’s worth emphasizing that anything measurable is also transient. The human spirit, the force of creative love, the creation’s essence: these things are unfindable, noumenal, always sensed and never penetrated by our fact-finding intellects. But we sense into them through living with an open heart, and by talking about them with sources such as Ra and Q’uo and other “universal” or “outer” energies and essences. The personal guides and other teachers of the inner planes of our planet have much more leeway in offering personal information, whenever their last incarnation. Go to them to get your readings on your health and other specific issues. Go to outer sources such as our confederation sources with questions that transcend space and time. If it will matter less in 10,000 years than it does now, it is probably not a universal question!
Again, Book V is full of these early on.
3D Sunset
RE: Free Will - Confused - Lavazza - 01-09-2009
Pretty interesting, eh? I assume that Ra chose to communicate symbolically to the group to uphold yet another facet of free will. Instead of saying "Hey, that's a transient question. Knock it off!", they instead illustrated how useless the question was by uselessly making them adjust their intense by a degree or two. I guess you could say Ra was throwing the essence of their request right back at them! After a while the group figured this out and became much more serious about the questions they posed.
Also of interest is the fact that at the beginning of each statement, Ra will say "I am Ra." I read elsewhere that Ra did this to ensure that the group knew who was communicating. There must be a universal law out there that forbids anyone giving that sort of statement falsely. But you'll also notice that on some specific occasions Ra did NOT use this precursor, and it was usually when they (Ra) felt that the question was less than pure or perhaps transient in nature. It was yet another warning. The consequence being, the loss of communication or worse, the replacement of Ra as the actual entity speaking. Again, this is what I read elsewhere, not my own figuring
RE: Free Will - Confused - Monica - 01-09-2009
(01-09-2009, 03:18 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: Here's a better example also from Book V.
Quote:Fragment 8, Session 17:
Carla: Donald was a scientist, and he never could quite accept that Ra was in no position to chat with us about phenomena that can be measured. The desire that had brought Ra to our group was a true desire for non-transient material, and this desire fueled our sessions. When we departed from that level of information, Ra would remind us to get back on track in a subtle way: by telling us to watch our alignments. We at first took them literally and thought they were referring to the items on the altar, to getting them lined up rightly. Later, we figured out that they were grading our questions, not our Bible and candle placement. It’s worth emphasizing that anything measurable is also transient. The human spirit, the force of creative love, the creation’s essence: these things are unfindable, noumenal, always sensed and never penetrated by our fact-finding intellects. But we sense into them through living with an open heart, and by talking about them with sources such as Ra and Q’uo and other “universal” or “outer” energies and essences. The personal guides and other teachers of the inner planes of our planet have much more leeway in offering personal information, whenever their last incarnation. Go to them to get your readings on your health and other specific issues. Go to outer sources such as our confederation sources with questions that transcend space and time. If it will matter less in 10,000 years than it does now, it is probably not a universal question!
Again, Book V is full of these early on.
3D Sunset
Thanks! Now I remember this. I remembered the rest of it but had forgotten the part about alignments.
(01-09-2009, 04:31 PM)Lavazza Wrote: Pretty interesting, eh? I assume that Ra chose to communicate symbolically to the group to uphold yet another facet of free will. Instead of saying "Hey, that's a transient question. Knock it off!", they instead illustrated how useless the question was by uselessly making them adjust their intense by a degree or two. I guess you could say Ra was throwing the essence of their request right back at them! After a while the group figured this out and became much more serious about the questions they posed.
Also of interest is the fact that at the beginning of each statement, Ra will say "I am Ra." I read elsewhere that Ra did this to ensure that the group knew who was communicating. There must be a universal law out there that forbids anyone giving that sort of statement falsely. But you'll also notice that on some specific occasions Ra did NOT use this precursor, and it was usually when they (Ra) felt that the question was less than pure or perhaps transient in nature. It was yet another warning. The consequence being, the loss of communication or worse, the replacement of Ra as the actual entity speaking. Again, this is what I read elsewhere, not my own figuring
Yes, this is easily confirmed by the sessions themselves - there are very few that do not preface the session with "I am Ra."
I remember when I read the books the first time...I always skipped over that part because it was always the same. I remember noticing the session(s) that did not say "I am Ra" and found it odd at the time. I sort of caught the warning back then, then later read that others had concluded the same thing.
Interestingly, it was the opposite with Edgar Cayce. His readings did not announce an entity, because (presumably) he was channeling the Akashic Records. On those very few occasions he was detuned, the readings state the name of an entity. It was those sessions that dealt with transient info in the way of predictions of catastrophes, complete with exact dates.
Ra and Q'uo have since provided us with other clues for discerning such detunings/mixed polarity messages.
RE: Free Will - Confused - BrotherAsa - 01-11-2009
I'd like to share my input on some of the areas touched on in this thread.
First, the issue of how could Ra, and for that matter Q'uo, share information without it being considered an infringement of Free Will. RA more or less addresses that issue in 2.1 [session.question] in response to Don's question concerning turning the session into a book. RA states that "There are few who will grasp, without significant distortion, that which we communicate through this connection with this mind/body/spirit complex" which is in itself a truth. If one is not acceptable to awakening and to the intuitive knowing of truth then when you introduce the LOO material to someone you might as well be prepared to have them think you are absolutely crazy for accepting something that cannot be experentially proven. Since the material was given in a manner that only those who are attuned to such things would even accept that the information might be valid and Ra was very careful throughout the contact not to provide any information that could be used to validate the information it is an act of Free Will just to accept the material.
The issue of Ra's insistence on such precise alignment of the objects on the altar could possibly have been only an oblique reference to the transitive nature of some of the questions but maybe not.
Only one who has integrated the use of Magick into their spiritual path would recognize the traits of someone who has grown spiritually through the use of Magick. [No it's not a mispelling that's the proper reference to differentiate between ceremonial/spiritual magick and stage magic/illusion.] Altars when used in Magickal workings are precisely aligned. A good example are the various different sites around the world such as Stonehenge and the precision of their alignments with such phonomena as the Summer Soltice.
RA never did reveal to Don exactly what methods were utilized by them for their spiritual growth while on Venus. From what little was revealed by Ra as to the archetypes and the Tarot that was discussed in Book IV combined with other indicators I am led to believe that it was some form of Magick. RA alludes to the investigation of the sexual transmission of energy by them as part of their growth which is one facet that can be incorporated in a Magickal based pursuit. Additionally, the explanation that Ra gives for the archetypes that were discussed is consistent with the approaches as would be used within some of the Western Magickal traditions.
Another clue to it being Magickal based in addition to the exact alignment is the recommendation that a white robe be used, that the elements of the altar be kept so they not be exposed when they were not being used on the altar, and the procedure involved with walking the Circle of One while performing the ritual is a type of invocation for Magickal purposes.
Additionally, during the discussion of the pyramids the terminology and purposes given for the pyramid is consistent with that which would be used within Western Magickal traditions. In later sessions Ra doesn't hesitate in relating to how an adept [a level associated with Magickal workings] would respond when certain questions were asked. Even when Don hit Ra with a detailed question giving the various aspects of what would be required in Magick work Ra didn't miss a beat or hesitate in his answers.
I also found the reference to the 20 degrees north by northeast interesting. If I recall correctly at some point there was a question dealing with realignment of the magnetic axis and the realignment was to be 20 degrees north by northeast which seems to be consistent with Ra's statement "This is the direction from which the newer or New Age distortions of love/light, which are less distorted, are emanating,...".
I am of the opinion that the "clues" that Ra provided indicates that the path Ra took for spiritual growth is consistent with what would be practiced by Western Magi.
RE: Free Will - Confused - βαθμιαίος - 01-11-2009
I agree, Asa, that alignment was important in and of itself (though I disagree about the spelling of "magic"). The Ra sessions were magical workings and in magic at the level that L/L was working precision is crucial.
Perhaps both interpretations are true. Maybe the censer, bible, etc. were truly off in some of the sessions where transient information was requested.
Here is an example from session 62 that indicates the importance of precision in the ritual that preceded the Ra sessions:
Quote:Questioner: Could you tell me what was wrong or what caused the necessity for the rewalking of the circle and the purpose for the expelling of the breath?
Ra: I am Ra. This instrument was under specific psychic attack at the time of the beginning of the working. There was a slight irregularity in the words verbalized by your sound complex vibratory mechanisms in the protective walking of the circle. Into this opening came this entity and began to work upon the instrument now in trance state, as you would call it. This instrument was being quite adversely affected in physical complex distortions.
Thus the circle was properly walked. The breath of righteousness expelled the thought-form and the circle again was walked.
.....
Quote:Questioner: Was the opening that was made in the protective circle planned to be made by the Orion entity? Was it a specific planned attempt to make an opening, or was this just something that happened by accident?
Ra: I am Ra. This entity was, as your people put it, looking for a target of opportunity. The missed word was a chance occurrence and not a planned one.
We might suggest in the, shall we say, future, as you measure space/time, as you begin a working be aware that this instrument is likely being watched for any opportunity. Thus if the circle is walked with some imperfection it is well to immediately repeat. The expelling of breath is also appropriate, always to the left.
RE: Free Will - Confused - freemason - 01-17-2009
Greetings, I have a question regarding the pyramid of Giza, I haven't read book 5 all thru, but I wonder is it still accepted that it was made of infinite stone, I agree that those who could not accept that premise would likely put down the book. It was like a challenge. Also recently a robot was sent into a ventilation shaft and metal pins were found within at an impasse. Have the questions raised by Edgar Cayces material ever been answered, The Pyramid Decoded also maintains timelines in the measurements. I noted that the Great Step is timed very close to the Kosmon era start in Oahspe. Does anyone have any thoughts on these aspects, Im also very glad for this forum amongst friends
RE: Free Will - Confused - Steppingfeet - 01-18-2009
Lavazza wrote:
Quote:How can these entities give us ANY information at all, without violating our free will? I mean, the information is certainly, certainly welcome beyond all the means that I could express. I think the information has been crucial to the spiritual development of who knows how many people. But there's the paradox, we're changing the way we think and do things based on what's given. Even if it's a good thing, isn't it a violation of free will?
That is an excellent question. It is one I too have considered. If third density is designed so that those within it must polarize by the faculties of will and faith alone, how can “outside” information be allowed in? If it is deliberately designed by the Logos that we should remain blind with no certain knowledge of the true nature of reality, that such knowledge should be hidden from our faculties of perception, why would representatives, (or “humble messengers”), be allowed to enter the fray and communicate with words what was designed to be hidden and completely out of sight? How can entities “in the know” share information with those who are in a carefully placed position of ignorance and confusion?
I believe that DreamingPeace began to get to the heart of the matter when she said:
Quote:They can give info in response to the calling. We call by reading the books. We also call unconsciously. They hear our call and respond.
In other words, Confederation entities, like Ra, can provide the information precisely because some on planet Earth seek exactly that information.
Let me take a step back and examine the thrust of your question for a moment before moving forward with my response.
It seems that you may be conflating the act of abridging free will on planet Earth with the capacity to be a means for delivering to the entity that which it seeks. I believe that abridging and serving free will are two entirely different activities.
Abridging Free Will
To abridge free will is to short-circuit the entity’s most fundamental and inalienable right, that is, the right of the entity to choose its own course of spiritual evolution, to find the truth within themselves as a result of their own choices. This topic in and of itself is too deep for me to plumb and definitely outside of the scope of this post, but, in short, to abridge free will is, in its more extreme manifestation, to attempt to control or manipulate the other self and to impose ones own agenda on another. In its less obnoxious forms, from Ra’s standpoint, abridging free will happens when the entity has been provided with information that removes or limits the privilege of making a choice in full blindness.
It is easy to see the obvious forms of abridgment such that negative entities offer. (Actually, STS abridgment is typically committed in cloaked and deceptive ways so that it does not appear to be abridgment. So perhaps it’s not so easy! In principle, at least, abridgment of the extreme service to self sort is easy to see. To the outsider, one cannot mistake the abridgment of a people being brainwashed and subjugated by the autocrat, or the enslavement of one people by another.) What is more difficult is distinguishing abridgment in the case such as you bring up, that of offering information about the nature of reality through channels.
Serving Free Will
I think the confusion in your question comes from the lack of differentiation between “violation” of free will and serving free will. It seems you are saying that, in offering positively oriented information, no matter how welcome it may be, the Confederation entities are *affecting* the situation on planet Earth, most especially your life and my life and all readers of the material! You seem to say, “These Confederation entities who are supposed to watch from a distance, these beings who are honor-bound to let humankind choose their own path, have, by virtue of speaking through telepathic channels, *affected* my decision-making process! My life would be different had I not encountered the information they provided!"
This is where the difference comes in between violation/abridgment of free will and serving/promoting free will.
Session 89
Quote:To those who wish to sleep we could only offer those comforts designed for the sleeping. Service is only possible to the extent it is requested. We were ready to serve in whatever way we could. This still seems satisfactory as a means of dealing with other-selves in third density. It is our feeling that to be each entity which one attempts to serve is to simplify the grasp of what service is necessary or possible.
The telepathically transmitted information about spiritual evolution which the Confederation offers is a service rendered only to the extent that the service is *requested*. Ra and the other Confederation entities can indeed *affect* life here on planet earth, but only within very strict boundaries. Because of their respect for free will and their purity, they can affect things only in proportion to the strength of our call, that is to say, they can only operate as a direct function of *our* free will.
If our planet had unanimously chosen to polarize in service to self, Ra’s information would have no place here. But as some entities on this planet are receptive to their particular philosophical understanding, and call for that understanding, whether consciously or unconsciously, Ra has the equivalent of the positive polarity’s permission slip to operate within the earth realm.
Thusly it is we who have brought this information to us. Ra and the others are only the “humble messengers” of the truth which lives within us right this moment. We as wanderers and spiritual seekers have awakened to the extent that we desire, on some level, to know this unitary truth. We desire the catalyst of spiritually oriented information which we wish to put into practice and apply to our own experience for the purpose of spiritual evolution. We are the growing plants who have awakened to the knowledge of the benefit of water and as such have requested, on one level or another, that life-giving water. Ra, and the other harvesters, are happy to oblige.
Our free will is protected first and foremost in this transaction by the fact that the communication takes place telepathically. Thus there is nothing given which we would consider “proof” for the existence of Ra, the Confederation, or their statement that reality is one. It is only real because we have faith that it is real. Science is the ultimate arbiter of truth in today’s paradigm and without the consent of science, Ra, by the world’s standards, does not exist.
Secondly, our free will is protected because, in general, the Confederation speaks only in terms of the spiritual principles of evolution. There are a basic set of spiritual principles which contain the keys to evolution, but those principles are uniquely interpreted, uniquely accessed, and uniquely applied to the unique circumstances of ones present moment.
The act of sharing these principles moves closer to abridgment (though where that line lies for a sixth density social memory complex is not for my understanding) when the humble messenger begins interpreting these eternal principles for the receiving third density entity. Ra could, it seems, instruct the group in techniques to a certain extent, but the heart of spiritual evolution, that is, finding and becoming the Creator, was left with Don, with Carla, and with Jim – where it always belongs.
Session 77
Quote:We cannot teach/learn to the extent of learn/teaching
Abridging free will versus promoting and safeguarding free will is an infinitely complex and subtle dance with more shades of nuance and variety than I could possibly even remotely come close to summarizing, but I believe I’ve touched upon some the more basic elements in the consideration of this dynamic. I believe that much of our evolution is done, in fact, as we learn the different between abridgment and non-abridgment in our daily round of activities.
I hope I have spoken to your query in a helpful way, Lavazza. Asking the self where the boundary lies between abridgment and promotion of free will in ones interactions with other selves is absolutely central to the path of spiritual evolution, both for the positive and the negative entity, I believe.
The issue of free will comes up a great deal for me in my relationship with everyone, but especially with my girlfriend. In the loving mirror she offers me, I often get to see the service to self within me, that portion of my consciousness which sees the rightness in imposing my agenda onto another because I know “best” for that other or for us both. It seems that, whether in relationship to my girlfriend or any entity with whom I interact, I will be faced again and again with the question of whether I am serving or abridging free will.
It can be difficult for me to release my own stubborn determination which seeks to aid the other in helping them to chart their course. I must constantly remind myself that, despite my apparent omniscience, I can never do the work for another. They and only they can find their way home. And while I can be there in full compassion to offer love, kindness, support, and whatever else may be needed when they stumble and fall, as they inevitably will, I cannot interfere with their stumbling, I cannot short-circuit their learning, I cannot clear the path for them, I cannot and can never see what is theirs to learn and what choices they must make to find their way home.
Love and rock on,
GLB
PS: Sorry everyone for the super-long post!! I hope I have not abridged your desire to do something actually productive with your day. : )
RE: Free Will - Confused - Lavazza - 01-18-2009
GLB, that was a truly wonderful and very helpful post! I believe I have a much better understanding of the free will concept now. Indeed you are correct when you said that I had not really figured in the difference between abridging and affecting. My incorrect assessment was that we were not to be affected at all, which of course could never be the case. You also raise an excellent point about how the messages are delivered, via telepathy. I suspect they could just as easily take over all the television stations or spell words out in the sky with lights, but that would change the game entirely.
It might be a good thing to take the body of your text and add it to a FAQ document or something similar at the L/L archive site. I'm sure there are others who were just as confused as I used to be!
thanks again.
Willingly free from infringed free will,
Lavazza
RE: Free Will - Confused - roman - 01-18-2009
(01-08-2009, 11:19 PM)Lavazza Wrote: .... quote shortened ...
But regardless, when Don asked about the pyramids Ra did explain. Perhaps Ra knew that en-mass, society would reject this notion? But still, how can Ra explain the pyramids and at the same time Q'uo will not explain to L/L Research about the status of a book with a publisher? (A session somewhere in Jan '06 this is talked about). This part of free will is still a mystery to me. But it's fun trying to figure it out, no?
My understanding of this distinction (e.g. specific information from Ra but not from Q'uo) is that the information about pyramids has been in our mass mind for a while and from other sources besides Ra. Answering this question then does not infringe upon free will because it cannot be be verified. Reader's ability to choose what to believe is preserved.
However, if Q'uo were to be specific about the book status, that information could be proven to be true, and thus force the reader to accept that Q'uo exist and that they "know". That would be an infringement on that reader's freedom to choose what to believe.
RE: Free Will - Confused - Monica - 01-18-2009
(01-17-2009, 10:08 PM)freemason Wrote: Greetings, I have a question regarding the pyramid of Giza, I haven't read book 5 all thru, but I wonder is it still accepted that it was made of infinite stone, I agree that those who could not accept that premise would likely put down the book. It was like a challenge. Also recently a robot was sent into a ventilation shaft and metal pins were found within at an impasse.
From: http://guardians.net/hawass/articles/news_on_the_robot_Dec_2005.htm
From the point where the first ascending passage meets the horizontal passage, an incredible corbelled corridor, the Grand Gallery, ascends to a third chamber, the “King’s Chamber”, where the granite sarcophagus of Khufu was found, empty. Scholarly discussion about the building sequence and purpose of these corridors and chambers is ongoing: many Egyptologists believe that the three chambers represent three changes in the interior plan, reflecting changes in Khufu’s cult, but others believe that all three chambers were part of the original plan.
Egyptologists are in disagreement as to whether the chambers (and presumably the shafts) were part of the original construction, indicating that the pins could have been left later. So there is no conflict with Ra's account.
That is, assuming that what they're calling 'pins' are not referring to the copper handles described in the article.
This article indicates that the 'pins' are the handles:
The newly discovered northern shaft door appears to be very similar to the one in the southern shaft, including the presence of a pair of copper "pins" or "handles." The southern shaft "door" was discovered in a 1993 investigation conducted under the auspices of the German Archaeological Institute.
from: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/09/0923_020923_egypt.html
From the same article:
Portions of the northern shaft have been previously explored. In 1872 Waynman Dixon found a small bronze hook and granite ball. In the 1920s a pyramid enthusiast, Morton Edgar, attempted to learn more about the queen's chamber shafts by using flexible metal rods. In the southern shaft he was stopped, presumably by the blocking door. In the northern shaft, which appears to bend and curve around the grand gallery, Edgar's flexible rods broke and remain there to this day. The SCA/NG robot "rover" had to navigate around the metal rods to reach the end of the northern shaft.
Overall, based on the (admittedly limited) news reports I just read, the what/when/how of the pins sounds inconclusive. Thus, I personally do not find the discovery of the pins to contradict Ra's account in the least. There is certainly still much more mystery (to modern researchers) surrounding the construction of the pyramids than explanation.
Keep in mind, also, that because of the holographic nature of our reality and free will, those intent upon disproving Ra's explanation will likely find some little tidbit that can be construed to do so....and those who are undecided will likely find 'evidence' on both sides, to keep the doubt alive. It is the same with any controversial topic.
Just some ideas to consider...
I don't know the answers to your other questions.
RE: Free Will - Confused - BrotherAsa - 01-18-2009
Interesting subject--infringement upon the free will. Raises a question that has been rattling around--What about awakened Wanderers? At what point would one's awakening to previous knowledge of the truth and reality does revealing it to a 3D entity become infringement upon the free will. Just as outside influences such as Ra and Q'uo create a situation that could potentially become an infringement upon free will, isn't there a point where information that an awakened Wanderer might be to reveal also be a potential infringement upon free will?
Although we are not the density of understanding, at no time have I seen or heard anything that would imply that we are not capable of recognizing and coming to know full ranges of truths that would lead to the full ability to know the extent to which 3D plays in spiritual growth. That is not to say that because I recognize or come to know a truth that I understand all there is about that truth only that it is a truth. Coming to know a truth is much the same as can be seen in the statement that faith of the size of a mustard seed can move a mountain.
How is one to know as an awakened Wanderer whether the knowing that has been re-accessed or what part of that knowing is something that should not be shared? Surely, there are those Wanderers who, especially at this late stage, who has re-accessed information that could become, much as the information that Ra attempted to share with the Egyptians, distorted and misused.
I would like to hear the thoughts of others on this subject.
RE: Free Will - Confused - zenmaster - 01-18-2009
Wanderer or not, as a "Logos", you may play a role in biasing others choices to the extent that they can not see how to exercise their own free will, and where you are encouraging some relevant opportunity for their expression (of something new). These opportunities are like a template, analogous to the archetypal patterns provided by our Logos that we try to understand through the Tarot.
You are, in a sense, providing some new rules for the "game". Playing the same game creates a rapprochement "bond", also understood as karma. The lesson is to understand the game and thus the bond. The binding force is love. Marsilio Ficino wrote insightfully about this in "De amore".
RE: Free Will - Confused - ChakRAmon - 01-20-2009
Great question Lavazza!!
Made me think on several things concerning this level of conscious existence in relation to the level Ra and others are coming from. Reminded me of how I could almost hear Ra laughing, at the very least, amused at the idea of attempting to communicate ideas to 3rd density beings in a developed construct based on free will (not always that way we find in book IV as you already know, I'm sure). It has also been interesting to see where Ra decides to claim "Law of Confusion" rights and not answer certain questions that are better sought and discovered by the seeker. I have to presume from what I have read that the mere act of seeking is where much is discovered and discovered in a way that is utterly brand new and very personal, very uniquely discovered by each and every one of us thus increasing the experience afforded the One Infinite Creator who so Loves all of this discovery. That certain things told to an individual absent the process of sincere intent for truly seeking and personal discovery would not have the very beneficial effect intended by the Logos in charge and the One Infinite Creator experiencing all of this infinite discovery simultaneously.
Another thing that came to mind when I read your premise concerning the free will question is that we are still, to some degree anyway, still taking the illusion that is this 3rd density construct a bit too seriously, as well as all of the distorted symbols that make up the languages we use during this experience. If I understand it right, the use of all symbols that pale in comparison to reality begin to fade away as we begin to remember, recognize and understand what is really going on better and better - that the higher densities are not speaking languages made of symbols to communicate. We Ra or any entity or social memory complex communicates with us at this level, they are scanning our minds to better understand the illusions we are still under the spell of, and then offering information that can assist us in our seeking without transgressing the Law of confusion and free will. One of the things we can do to better understand maybe is to go back and look at where Ra could not answer some of Don's questions and try to gain some understanding there. One of my favorites is when Don asked what were the frequency equivalents to those vowel sounds from the ancient Hebrew and Sanskrit languages that are actually basic to the very frequencies used to create all of this organization and enfolding of light into material 3rd density matter throughout the "visible" universe..... I love how Don said, I thought you would not be able to answer that, but it never hurts to ask.....
What a wonderful work to ponder.....
I often wonder what Don is up to right now - I highly doubt that he is between incarnations..
Love/Light, ChakRAmon
RE: Free Will - Confused - indigomama - 08-17-2009
I realize this is an older thread but it is exactly what I was looking for today! I am new to TLOO, this forum, etc. I am coming down from my blissfully wonderful high of my initial 'remembering' that all is One in the Creator and, as I look around at family and friends, I wonder just what I can share and what I can do. I was wondering what would be acceptable according to free will and now I know!(Or at least I have a better idea) It is difficult to restrain myself at times because I am so happy and excited about this new level of understanding. However, I also know that most people I am close to would be skeptical of this info to say the least. I appreciate all the insights shared on this thread and thank you all for your input and the Creator for bringing me here at this time.
Note: Since my life changed I am absolutely overflowing with gratitude and am constantly thanking everyone and everything with my thoughts and with my words!!
RE: Free Will - Confused - Ali Quadir - 08-17-2009
Sounds like someone fell in love with life
Congrats They may not want to hear about Ra at this time. But they won't mind seeing you smile will they?
And if the teaching is that love is real, a smile just so happens to be the greatest lesson.There's a great deal of distortions out there. You should judge who would receive this material and who would not on an individual basis. There's no point in risking conflict. It's not our job to be evangelists. And if it was it'd be counter productive to force it down peoples throats. I suggest you just enjoy this for yourself as a part of their family they won't object to that and will probably at some point be curious after it. Let them discover it in their own pace and choice. At the same time you can spend your energy in your own development. In short, do not trade your smile for a crusade
Namaste
RE: Free Will - Confused - Lavazza - 08-17-2009
Wow, Indiomama, your reply to this thread was well timed. I have been seeking guidance on something during my meditations lately, always asking that I find the material I need to resolve a question. Lo and behold, your response here popped up a subscription notification in my inbox that you had posted here, and on a whim I opened up the first page of this thread and re-read what I had posted about 6 months ago. Amazingly I ran across the right information I needed... that I had needed back then, but forgot about. What a syncronicity.
Anyway- welcome to the forum! You sound truly happy, and I am happy in turn. I would second all that Ali Q. has posted here. Be your own light and shine as brightly as you can, it will become too bright to ignore after a while
RE: Free Will - Confused - paddy - 10-01-2009
Quote:If I read something that does not resonate, how can I know that it is not true, vs. something that I am simply not comfortable with?
A portion of this may relate to the inherent limitation of language which fundamentally may act as abstract symbolisms representing a concept or idea which may contain more meaning than the symbolisms are able to represent well. Letters, words, sentences, and paragraphs as abstract symbolisms which communicate imperfectly the true whole reality.
Furthermore, people hear only a percentage of what is spoken to them, they likewise comprehend only a percentage of what is read. Language contains inherent communication inefficiency and at best can only convey expressions that seem useful approximate. If something about this seems unclear or difficult to understand, then that seems proof for the point.
It is for this reason that I consider the Ra Materials as a seed thought or small percentage of so much more - untapped potential. If that doesn't resonate with you for some reason or another, then please disregard it.
paddy
RE: Free Will - Confused - ChakRAmon - 10-01-2009
Hi Indigomama, another thing we can do that quells the natural desire to want to, in fits of personal excitement, pour unsolicited information on loved ones is simply and quietly remember for them, for we are One. The unique fractals they represent in this infinite hologram, in accord with the Law of Confusion (inherent and divine right to be confused for a spell) and with free will may place them at a different leg of the ongoing journey, but we are free to remember for them... I would imagine we would be delightfully surprised to find out how many times angel types and interdimensional travelers and ascended masters have interceded on our behalf, and on the behalf of humankind in general... This particular humankind project may very well have been viewed at times as a failed experiment, and then some come forward and submit their willingness to intercede and remember on our behalf to afford us more time for this comatose and somewhat insane (at times) leg of the individual and collective journey in 3rd density on Gaia... It is so exciting to think that Gaia herself has already moved into 4th density and is lovingly urging us to come along for the ride, and amazing that their is something for everyone, even the ones who wish to remain in 3rd density, even the ones who are still infatuated with the elitist ruling class service to self perspective of slavery and control... It is so amazing, the realization that we are always safe, even when we perceive we are in some form of danger, that this impeccable construct is utterly inviolate, unassailable, indestructible, Sacred, like throwing as many rocks in the pond as you wish, and then when you run out of rocks, the pond becomes still again... LLP, ChakRAmon
RE: Free Will - Confused - thefool - 12-15-2009
(01-08-2009, 01:49 AM)Lavazza Wrote: Hi everyone,
As we know, something Ra and Q'uo are determined to do is maintain our free will by not giving us information that would alter our evolution in any way... The information given is always open to be interpreted in whatever way we chose to interpret it, because each individual must have the ability to make whatever choices they want for themselves. For example, although it would no doubt be easy for Q'uo to do, he/she/they would never give us the results of tomorrow's rugby match, because even something as non-relevant as that with regards to our evolution would have profound implications on how we move forward. (In a similar way that characters in sci-fi movies are oh so careful not to make any changes when they go back in time, less they significantly impact the present and future).
This is all and well, but I guess I just still don't quite understand. How can these entities give us ANY information at all, without violating our free will? I mean, the information is certainly, certainly welcome beyond all the means that I could express. I think the information has been crucial to the spiritual development of who knows how many people. But there's the paradox, we're changing the way we think and do things based on what's given. Even if it's a good thing, isn't it a violation of free will? Or are these entities not in violation because we have chosen to read the material, or made a request for it on an unconscious level? (hope I haven't just answered my own question there). If the Ra material suddenly came up in all the top newspapers in the world, would that then be the free will violation?
The other confusing part of the free will idea is how Q'uo sort of passes off the free will responsibility on to the reader. At the start of most sessions Q'uo asks that we use our judgment on what is said, so that they might speak more freely. We should hold on to what resonates, and discard what does not. What does this imply, exactly? Q'uo tells us what they know to be the truth, which we can probably assume is almost always accurate coming from their position compared to ours. If I read something that does not resonate, how can I know that it is not true, vs. something that I am simply not comfortable with? For example, there are a lot of things I see in the news that I am not comfortable with (and some times can hardly believe), yet I won't deny that they aren't happening or true. Am I perhaps thinking about this the wrong way?
Very interested to hear your thoughts. And I have to add that I'm simply overjoyed that we have this forum to chat these things up with!
Very interesting questions!!! I have myself been struggling to understand their use of this term and what it means. In a broader sense, How can any entity violate another's free will. Free will is NOT something that can be given or taken. It is the very core of our existence. It is the first distortion that started it all.
But it can be looked at from two perspective. They might be breaking the 'law of confusion' for sure as we have allowed oversleves to be placed in this veiled 3rd density. This will also be their learning on our behalf as we wanted to come to earth to gain polarity and learn certain stuff (besides helping or conquering of course). It will be like someone telling you the end of a suspense movie while you want to enjoy the movie (it might be very tempting to knwo the answer though). So in that way they might be impeding our progress and coming in the path of our free will choice. I think the key is the term Violate or the Infringement. They don't want to step on our toes. And that is all another entity can do in big scheme of things. spoil your fun