05-23-2019, 05:40 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-23-2019, 05:51 AM by Louisabell.)
Analogy, can I just ask, is there a certain fact that you think people here are in denial about?
Feminism and patriarchy are such huge abstractions I really doubt people are talking about the same thing when they bring it up, so I'm hoping for some more specific concrete facts.
As for free speech, there are already limits on free speech, such as inciting violence or conspiring to commit crimes (including threats of violence).
I believe the argument of progressives is that "hate speech" is an incitement of violence or a real threat against certain people. The problem is that here we are dealing with abstractions. Can saying something racist or sexist contribute to some oppressions of people that include criminal activity against them? For example, aggressive pick-up tactics that border on harassment and that foster an attitude of sexual exploitation? There is a serious argument here to consider, and I think you'd have to be in denial to not see it.
However, I am of the opinion that abstractions shouldn't be used to limit free speech because it can lead to a slippery slope. Also most abstractions are dependent on certain perpectives of history, an area with limitless potential of interpretation.
For example one can romanticize the politeness of Victorian society, saying how wonderful it was when people were civil to eachother, but then again do we ask what it took to sustain the strict social conventions of the time? Babies born out of wedlock were often sent to baby farms because it was considered impolite that these births occurred, in many cases due to rape. In this regard, politeness was more important than people.
"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.”
At all times, always.
There is so much fighting over abstractions. Is patriarchy the "birth of civilization" and "fathers in the home" or is it "domestic violence" and "exclusion of women from the workforce"?... so who's right in this fight? or who will say that it's all those things and so much more?
Countercultures can turn into mainstream cultures and then all of a sudden the people calling out NPCs become the NPCs themselves...
Feminism and patriarchy are such huge abstractions I really doubt people are talking about the same thing when they bring it up, so I'm hoping for some more specific concrete facts.
As for free speech, there are already limits on free speech, such as inciting violence or conspiring to commit crimes (including threats of violence).
I believe the argument of progressives is that "hate speech" is an incitement of violence or a real threat against certain people. The problem is that here we are dealing with abstractions. Can saying something racist or sexist contribute to some oppressions of people that include criminal activity against them? For example, aggressive pick-up tactics that border on harassment and that foster an attitude of sexual exploitation? There is a serious argument here to consider, and I think you'd have to be in denial to not see it.
However, I am of the opinion that abstractions shouldn't be used to limit free speech because it can lead to a slippery slope. Also most abstractions are dependent on certain perpectives of history, an area with limitless potential of interpretation.
For example one can romanticize the politeness of Victorian society, saying how wonderful it was when people were civil to eachother, but then again do we ask what it took to sustain the strict social conventions of the time? Babies born out of wedlock were often sent to baby farms because it was considered impolite that these births occurred, in many cases due to rape. In this regard, politeness was more important than people.
"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.”
At all times, always.
There is so much fighting over abstractions. Is patriarchy the "birth of civilization" and "fathers in the home" or is it "domestic violence" and "exclusion of women from the workforce"?... so who's right in this fight? or who will say that it's all those things and so much more?
Countercultures can turn into mainstream cultures and then all of a sudden the people calling out NPCs become the NPCs themselves...