negative wanderers
03-15-2015, 11:01 AM,
#61
RE: negative wanderers
Mod Note

Hi guys (and ladies),

Just your friendly neighborhood Mod popping in for a quick reminder about the First Guideline of these forums, which can also be considered the most important one, as this is a community based around positive seeking.

Positive seeking does not mean we only talk about positive things; the positive path sees all things as open for discussion, including the opposite path, that of STS.

However, we do ask that you keep things civil, and not resort to personal insults and impled snide remarks.

Another point to remember is that each individual has come to certain understandings and realizations during their life experience.  Those personal understandings are uniquely shaped by one's life circumstances, and so trying to convey the exact nature of one's understandings can be difficult when others have not had a similiar set of experiences.  Frustrations can come up.  One can feel that the other-self is not trying to get your point.  

But we ask that you try to take the high road when such frustrations come up.  There is no need to talk down to people if you don't think they get your point.

Quote:1) Respect. Compassion. Loving-kindness. Empathy. Trust. Goodwill. Desire to serve. Embracing each other. Opening our heart. Participants are asked to keep the thought in the forefront of their minds at all times that each on this forum IS the Creator.

Please keep communication respectful at all times and in all ways. The participant may disagree to the bone with an idea without personally attacking the author of the idea. Please remember that we are all here to expand our knowledge, deepen our understanding, and support one another by reflecting our divinity to each other. We are One being -- we are not here to forget the real.
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03-15-2015, 11:14 AM,
#62
RE: negative wanderers
I'm sorry if I haven' remembered that and acted out of line.

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03-15-2015, 03:13 PM,
#63
RE: negative wanderers
All I've been trying to tell you is in this quote. I won't repeat anything, just read the quote and ask yourself if your beliefs about paths are really in accordance with the Law of One (the name actually says it all, one..)



Quote:In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/lightlight/love. You are. This is the Law of One.
This isn't "you", this is everything that was, is and will be.

You are in a dance with your life, acknowledge your end.
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03-15-2015, 03:43 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-15-2015, 03:45 PM by dreamliner.)
#64
RE: negative wanderers
evolution can find a solution to any problem in this universe;

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2015/03/10/water-automatically-leaps-off-lizards-self-cleaning-skin/


likewise, extension of the free will was also just another solution to a "problem"; but nobody can guarantee that the existing circumstances will not be refined in far future again -& again-.

Quote:79.28 Questioner: Well, I was aware of that. I probably didn’t state the question correctly. It’s a very difficult question to state. I don’t know if it’s worth attempting to continue with but what I meant was when this very first experiment with the veiling process occurred, did it result in service-to-self polarization with the first experiment?

Ra: I am Ra. The early, if we may use this term, Logoi produced service-to-self and service-to-others mind/body/spirit complexes immediately. The harvestability of these entities was not so immediate and thus refinements of the archetypes began apace.
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03-16-2015, 05:32 PM,
#65
RE: negative wanderers
I'm glad I'm not a mod.

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03-16-2015, 05:33 PM,
#66
RE: negative wanderers
The discussion about moderation has been moved to the Community Relationship forum here: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=10569&pid=173605#pid173605
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03-17-2015, 01:55 PM,
#67
RE: negative wanderers
I don't know if I'm even a wanderer at all. Someone did a horoscope on me that showed I was 3rd density native.

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03-17-2015, 10:08 PM,
#68
RE: negative wanderers
Don't let others decide what you are, imo. Of course, you can be that, if you want. Or anything else.
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03-18-2015, 06:25 AM,
#69
RE: negative wanderers
(03-17-2015, 01:55 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote:  I don't know if I'm even a wanderer at all. Someone did a horoscope on me that showed I was 3rd density native.

it's not proven to work accurately lol
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03-18-2015, 09:04 AM,
#70
RE: negative wanderers
Honestly, when I was growing up and finding myself, I was very attuned to serve myself. Friends of mine often told me my soul stream was primarily negative and I played the part of a shaman in many lives. As I grew older and started to fall into my own psychic abilities and dabbling in witchcraft and deep meditation exercises as well as using mushrooms and other entheogens to allow me to enter spiritual gnosis with more proficiency, I started having profound spiritual awakenings and callings to help the people of this planet. I am not entirely sure where I am from yet, though I am very earth centered. But I do know that I am here to help these people in this time of great change that is going to take place. Service to self wanderers are just as loving and accepting as others, they just have a much different mentality on the way their reality is meant to be. For example if the world went through a massive change tomorrow, the first thing on a STS wanderers mind would most likely be to protect him or herself and their possessions, where a STO wanderer would immediately protect his or her family and their pets, then proceed to help more people, familiar or not. This brings me to another topic where the Saturday night I was blessed enough to look directly at a flying craft with the brightest pure white light i've ever seen in my life, it faded in and out of the clouds about three times. For me this was a message to prepare for change and be with perfect equanimity to the coming energies. I will offer my hand to any human or wanderer, STS or STO, because he/she, is me and I, them. Adonai
∞ Love and Light ∞
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03-18-2015, 11:02 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-18-2015, 11:19 PM by Lighthead.)
#71
RE: negative wanderers
(03-09-2015, 10:48 AM)bosphorus Wrote:  also, historically, i guess one of them is Niccolo Macchiavelli. You know he's the founder of current politics which are pure STS. Another one is Charles Darwin. I strongly believe he was inspired by STS forces.

I have reason to believe that Macchiavelli was a 4th density negative Wanderer (I used my method, Blush ). Which leads me back to what Ra said. Ra implied that most negative Wanderers were from 4th density to mid 5th density. 6th density negative Wanderers are very rare. More like an exotic species.

Update: According to my calculations, Darwin is an early 6th density Wanderer. If you believe that he was STS, then he has a better than average chance of being one of the few 6th density negative Wanderers.
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03-18-2015, 11:37 PM,
#72
RE: negative wanderers
(03-15-2015, 05:29 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote:  Just jumping in here, but I'm a bit surprised that Ayn Rand hasn't been mentioned.  She would seem to me to practically personify what a 6D-neg wanderer would look like.  Her entire mission in life was the elevation of the individual self/ego above all other concerns, and Atlas Shrugged is very much a parable of an "elite" few enslaving the rest of the world through backhanded means that still pay lip service to the idea of free will.

Plus, her basic paranoia regarding "collectivism" and the inevitability of it leading to a horrific ego death (from her POV) actually makes a bit more sense if she had an instinctive understanding of Oneness... and was afraid of it.  

And she behaved that way in life, too.  She formed a group of "free thinkers" which she (ironically, or so she claimed) called "The Collective," in which everyone was expected to agree with whatever she said.  She'd ruthlessly excommunicate members, even long-time friends, for even minor disagreements.  It certainly seems like she was (consciously or not) attempting to set herself up as the ruling ego of her own physical/3D social-memory complex.

She even went so far as to write a book attempting to prove that her *taste in art* was Objectively correct.

Given how popular she became in America, she may have even been one of the most "successful" negative Wanderers, in terms of doing the work she meant to do.  She eventually succumbed to total paranoia in her last decade or so, but spent most of her life quite lucid.

(And, in fairness, living through the October Revolution on the Czarist side must have truly sucked, especially for a young girl without any real understanding of what was happening.)

Now that is somebody who I definitely believe is STS. According to my calculations she is most likely a mid 4th density negative Wanderer.
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03-18-2015, 11:48 PM,
#73
RE: negative wanderers
I know that this is sort of besides the point, but does anybody feel that those who have been diagnosed with psychopathy are STS? Just a thought that I had when I was reading Observer's post.
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03-19-2015, 01:50 AM,
#74
RE: negative wanderers
(03-18-2015, 11:37 PM)Lighthead Wrote:  Now that is somebody who I definitely believe is STS. According to my calculations she is most likely a mid 4th density negative Wanderer.

I'm curious -  What calculations are these,  and why do you put her at 4D rather than 6D?  I find that Rand is very wise in her own distorted way,  beyond what I'd expect from a 4D entity, at least based on Ra's descriptions.   Her thought processes were almost always very orderly and "rational" (from a certain point of view) whereas I'd think a 4D-neg would be much more emotionally-driven and less interested in "cold" verbal logic as a medium of transmission.

Time will tell.  It always does.
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03-19-2015, 02:08 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-19-2015, 02:09 AM by Lighthead.)
#75
RE: negative wanderers
(03-19-2015, 01:50 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote:  
(03-18-2015, 11:37 PM)Lighthead Wrote:  Now that is somebody who I definitely believe is STS. According to my calculations she is most likely a mid 4th density negative Wanderer.

I'm curious -  What calculations are these,  and why do you put her at 4D rather than 6D?  I find that Rand is very wise in her own distorted way,  beyond what I'd expect from a 4D entity, at least based on Ra's descriptions.   Her thought processes were almost always very orderly and "rational" (from a certain point of view) whereas I'd think a 4D-neg would be much more emotionally-driven and less interested in "cold" verbal logic as a medium of transmission.

This link would probably clarify what I'm talking about: A formula for figuring out your density. (Thread) The formula itself is very complicated (very few people understood what the heck I was talking about). I personally find that it's an accurate way of finding out someone's densities that utilizes astrology and numerology. If you find it's too difficult to figure out, then I can do yours for you if you want (for free; just shoot me a private message).

I personally have the opposite view of what an STS entity would be. I tend to have the idea that an STS is very cold and logical (I picture the way a psychopath is). It's funny how different people see things differently.

I see Ayn Rand as being very pro-capitalist. And, to be honest, I feel like the present-day capitalist system is very outdated and is what is making the world less equal, and less future-oriented. I feel that capitalism kills innovation in fact (just think copyrights). That's just the way I see it. But, like I said, different people see things differently.
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03-19-2015, 02:34 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-19-2015, 03:34 AM by APeacefulWarrior.)
#76
RE: negative wanderers
Well,  I'd tend to see the progression in behavior from STS  entities to change substantially from density to density.  A 4D would be full of love-of-self,  but it would not be tempered with wisdom.   IE,  a knowledge of the higher systems in place.   It would probably be more likely to utilize violence or simply disregard free will in others, and have little concept (or regard) for the consequences of its actions.   I think a "classic"  psychopath would fall into this category.

A 5D STS would be very cold and calculating,  a Master Schemer type,  focused on spreading negativity for personal gain through more indirect methods.   I imagine a being something like Hannibal Lector,  especially in the new TV show.   Hannibal isn't overly concerned with converting anyone to his way of thinking (besides a couple characters he sees as being already like him) and is mostly just a bastard for the sake of being a bastard and seeing what he can pull off. He also seems to enjoy tricking positive characters into unknowingly engaging in negative behavior, like his choice of meats when serving meals to "friends."

So then the reason that I put Rand in 6D is that she was VERY interested in conversion.  I'd have to go hunting for the quote,  but I remember specifically Ra referring to 6D entities as seeing reproduction in terms of osmosis.  IE, for a STS entity,  this would be a Borg-like drive to expand INTO others and control them through willing conversion.  Also -without getting into needless detail- Rand's own sex life suggests a complete lack of interest in children and use of sex (via BDSM games) as a form of energy transfer.  This also tracks to what Ra said about 6D entities.

More or less,  I think a 4D-neg would be far too self-obsessed and irrational to expend as much energy on others as Rand was willing to.  She (in my estimations) saw the energy expenditure as an investment in others for the sake of trying to enslave them to her,  which would be beyond the capabilities or interests of a 4D or 5D being.  

(And thanks for the offer,  but in honesty - no offense intended - I really don't put much stock in astrology or numerology.  But if it works for you on your path,  don't let me deter you!  Smile)

Time will tell.  It always does.
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03-19-2015, 03:26 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-19-2015, 03:27 AM by Lighthead.)
#77
RE: negative wanderers
(03-19-2015, 02:34 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote:  Well,  I'd tend to see the progression in behavior from STS  entities to change substantially from density to density.  A 4D would be full of love-of-self,  but it would not be tempered with wisdom.   IE,  a knowledge of the higher systems in place.   It would probably be more likely to utilize violence or simply disregard free will in others, and have little concept (or regard) for the consequences of its actions.   I think a "classic"  psychopath would fall into this category.

A 5D STS would be very cold and calculating,  a Master Schemer type,  focused on spreading negativity for personal gain through more indirect methods.   I imagine a being something like Hannibal Lector,  especially in the new TV show.   Hannibal isn't overly concerned with converting anyone to his way of thinking (besides a couple characters he sees as being already like him) and is mostly just a bastard for the sake of being a bastard and seeing what he can pull off.

So then the reason that I put Rand in 6D is that she was VERY interested in conversion.  I'd have to go hunting for the quote,  but I remember specifically Ra referring to 6D entities as seeing reproduction in terms of osmosis.  IE, for a STS entity,  this would be a Borg-like drive to expand INTO others and control them through willing conversion.  Also -without getting into needless detail- Rand's own sex life suggests a complete lack of interest in children and use of sex (via BDSM games) as a form of energy transfer.  This also tracks to what Ra said about 6D entities.

More or less,  I think a 4D-neg would be far too self-obsessed and irrational to expend as much energy on others as Rand was willing to.  She (in my estimations) saw the energy expenditure as an investment in others for the sake of trying to enslave them to her,  which would be beyond the capabilities or interests of a 4D or 5D being.  

(And thanks for the offer,  but in honesty - no offense intended - I really don't put much stock in astrology or numerology.  But if it works for you on your path,  don't let me deter you!  Smile)

Well, I don't fail to hazard the chance that you may be right; I don't claim my system to be infallible. It may be completely wrong. She may well be a 6D Wanderer. The only thing is that, according to Ra, there may only be a handful of 6D negative Wanderers, at the most. It's also important to remember that an STS Wanderer could very well forget his/her mission here on Earth to polarize for the negative, and perhaps end up polarizing positive. In other words, it's important to remember that they are not purely from their home density, but very much reflect the qualities of the density they are incarnated into (3rd density). This may tend to eclipse, to a great deal, the vibrations of their home density. Also, Ra didn't put much emphasis in describing how an STS Wanderer would reflect its home density's vibrations.

As far as not wanting your density calculation done, no biggie. I just thought that it would be nice to at least offer it since you were generally asking about it. Whatever floats your boat.
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APeacefulWarrior
03-19-2015, 04:25 AM,
#78
RE: negative wanderers
Well, in regards to 6D-neg wanderers being rare, Rand is literally the ONLY person I can think of off the top of my head who would seem to fit the description. And the big hole in my reasoning, I think, is that I truly have little real idea what would have compelled her to take on a 3D form and risk losing her Ego, her polarity, and\or her entire higher-density social/memory complex given how tightly she clung to them.

Yet a fear of such a thing happening runs throughout her work, from beginning to end. Her entire first novella ("Anthem") is solely about the horrors of a society where the Ego is repressed entirely, to the point that "Ego" has become a banned word. This could also be seen as a metaphor for Oneness and her own absolute rejection of the idea.

Time will tell.  It always does.
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03-19-2015, 04:44 AM,
#79
RE: negative wanderers
wouldn't an STS wanderer be exactly cold, & rational?
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03-19-2015, 06:22 AM,
#80
RE: negative wanderers
(03-18-2015, 11:02 PM)Lighthead Wrote:  
(03-09-2015, 10:48 AM)bosphorus Wrote:  also, historically, i guess one of them is Niccolo Macchiavelli. You know he's the founder of current politics which are pure STS. Another one is Charles Darwin. I strongly believe he was inspired by STS forces.

I have reason to believe that Macchiavelli was a 4th density negative Wanderer (I used my method, Blush ). Which leads me back to what Ra said. Ra implied that most negative Wanderers were from 4th density to mid 5th density. 6th density negative Wanderers are very rare. More like an exotic species.

Update: According to my calculations, Darwin is an early 6th density Wanderer. If you believe that he was STS, then he has a better than average chance of being one of the few 6th density negative Wanderers.

What makes you think that Macchiavelli is a wanderer ? and like i previously said there are no formulas to suggest that one is a wanderer or not,you can only see the true color density of an individual.
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03-19-2015, 06:40 AM,
#81
RE: negative wanderers
how do u see the true color density?
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03-19-2015, 07:34 AM,
#82
RE: negative wanderers
(03-19-2015, 06:40 AM)Bluebell Wrote:  how do u see the true color density?

Seveth ray chakra, the total read out in a person.
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03-19-2015, 08:35 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-19-2015, 08:36 AM by APeacefulWarrior.)
#83
RE: negative wanderers
On the subject of Machiavelli, there's an important detail about his writings that a lot of people don't know: Many critics/historians think that The Prince may have been, more or less, trolling the Medicis. Because The Prince is unlike his earlier and more-humanist works in a lot of ways, and has some rather specious logic, there's a strong argument that he was basically trying to lead the Medicis into ruining themselves. Bad suggestions dressed up as good suggestions, basically.

He wasn't necessarily the archvillain some people think of when they hear "Machiavellian." OTOH, the idea of him deliberately feeding the Medicis bad intel is rather Machiavellian, come to think of it. Wink

Time will tell.  It always does.
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03-19-2015, 01:50 PM,
#84
RE: negative wanderers
(03-18-2015, 11:48 PM)Lighthead Wrote:  I know that this is sort of besides the point, but does anybody feel that those who have been diagnosed with psychopathy are STS? Just a thought that I had when I was reading Observer's post.

I do not think so at all! "psychopaths" are often just very overwhelmed by their reality and have complex thought forms or behavioral patterns to cope with the reality they were put into, perhaps it was the goal of their soul, or perhaps its a way to cope with lessons the mind wasn't exactly ready for at the time. 
∞ Love and Light ∞
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03-19-2015, 03:58 PM,
#85
RE: negative wanderers
do u guys see Patrick Bateman
[Image: american-psycho-axe.jpg]

as a low level/beginner STS or a poor confused/overwhelmed soul?

i was thinking about this earlier... as STS he wouldn't be harvestable as an axe murderer, because he's not enslaving millions... nor is he controlling his impulses. a more ambitious/polarized STS being would enslave w/o getting his hands dirty. right?
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03-19-2015, 04:01 PM,
#86
RE: negative wanderers
I don't know, Hitler didn't get his hands dirty did he? Though he enslaved millions, but was still not harvestable.

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03-19-2015, 05:19 PM,
#87
RE: negative wanderers
he almost made it.
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03-19-2015, 08:18 PM,
#88
RE: negative wanderers
(03-19-2015, 04:25 AM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote:  Well, in regards to 6D-neg wanderers being rare, Rand is literally the ONLY person I can think of off the top of my head who would seem to fit the description.  And the big hole in my reasoning, I think, is that I truly have little real idea what would have compelled her to take on a 3D form and risk losing her Ego, her polarity, and\or her entire higher-density social/memory complex given how tightly she clung to them.

Yet a fear of such a thing happening runs throughout her work, from beginning to end.  Her entire first novella ("Anthem") is solely about the horrors of a society where the Ego is repressed entirely, to the point that "Ego" has become a banned word.  This could also be seen as a metaphor for Oneness and her own absolute rejection of the idea.

The motivation for a negative entity to Wander is the same as that of a positive entity. It's to polarize further and to spiritually progress. There's more power in being further along in your density whether you are negative or positive.

As far as reading Rand's work, I'm not too familiar with it, I'm not going to lie. I toyed around with reading her books a while back. But once I ascribed to socialism, I didn't see any use in it. I guess it would be helpful to see the way the other side thinks. But it would be more of a long-term goal for me rather than something that is on my short list.
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03-19-2015, 08:21 PM,
#89
RE: negative wanderers
(03-19-2015, 01:50 PM)Observer Wrote:  
(03-18-2015, 11:48 PM)Lighthead Wrote:  I know that this is sort of besides the point, but does anybody feel that those who have been diagnosed with psychopathy are STS? Just a thought that I had when I was reading Observer's post.

I do not think so at all! "psychopaths" are often just very overwhelmed by their reality and have complex thought forms or behavioral patterns to cope with the reality they were put into, perhaps it was the goal of their soul, or perhaps its a way to cope with lessons the mind wasn't exactly ready for at the time. 

I wasn't implying that you were referencing psychopaths as being STS. It's just something that I randomly thought of when I was reading your post. There's no connection.
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03-19-2015, 08:25 PM,
#90
RE: negative wanderers
(03-19-2015, 03:58 PM)Bluebell Wrote:  do u guys see Patrick Bateman

as a low level/beginner STS or a poor confused/overwhelmed soul?

i was thinking about this earlier... as STS he wouldn't be harvestable as an axe murderer, because he's not enslaving millions... nor is he controlling his impulses. a more ambitious/polarized STS being would enslave w/o getting his hands dirty. right?

According to Ra, killing does lead to negative polarization. Notice what Ra said about Lincoln:


Quote:35.8 Questioner: Well in that case I would like to know the motivation for this use of Abraham Lincoln’s body at that time?

Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the last full query of this session as we find the instrument quite low in vital energies.

The one known as Abraham had an extreme difficulty in many ways and, due to physical, mental, and spiritual pain, was weary of life but without the orientation to self-destruction. In your time, 1853, this entity was contacted in sleep by a fourth-density being. This being was concerned with the battle between the forces of light and the forces of darkness which have been waged in fourth density for many of your years.

This entity accepted the honor/duty of completing the one known as Abraham’s karmic patterns and the one known as Abraham discovered that this entity would attempt those things which the one known as Abraham desired to do but felt it could not. Thus the exchange was made.

The entity, Abraham, was taken to a plane of suspension until the cessation of its physical vehicle much as though we of Ra would arrange with this instrument to remain in the vehicle, come out of the trance state, and function as this instrument, leaving this instrument’s mind and spirit complex in its suspended state.

The planetary energies at this time were at what seemed to this entity to be at a critical point, for that which you know as freedom had gained in acceptance as a possibility among many peoples. This entity saw the work done by those beginning the democratic concept of freedom, as you call it, in danger of being abridged or abrogated by the rising belief and use of the principle of the enslavement of entities. This is a negative concept of a fairly serious nature in your density. This entity, therefore, went forward into what it saw as the battle for the light, for healing of a rupture in the concept of freedom.

This entity did not gain or lose karma by these activities due to its detachment from any outcome. Its attitude throughout was one of service to others, more especially to the downtrodden or enslaved. The polarity of the individual was somewhat, but not severely, lessened by the cumulative feelings and thought-forms which were created due to large numbers of entities leaving the physical plane due to trauma of battle.

May we ask if this is the information you requested or if we may supply any further information?
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