03-05-2015, 06:55 PM
My thoughts are when we free ourself, we see that we also freed all our other/selves as well.
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03-05-2015, 06:55 PM
My thoughts are when we free ourself, we see that we also freed all our other/selves as well.
03-05-2015, 07:38 PM
03-06-2015, 04:22 AM
The human body does not fit the profile physiologically for a carnivore or omnivore. The main difference besides teeth, is the length of the intestines.
03-06-2015, 04:43 AM
(03-05-2015, 02:43 PM)Shemaya Wrote:(03-05-2015, 01:25 PM)Marc Wrote: I am a vegan of two years now. I think if we want to be most efficient with our energy intake we will eat a mostly plant based diet. Everything we do AND think is relevant to our energy fields. Marc is correct in saying that if you consume meat, you consume the fear of the animal. This is fact regarding the hormones released when slaughtered, and the hormone levels in the body of the animal from the stress of living conditions, to say nothing of the energy of fear being taken in. Regarding children: they are as varied in individuality and evolution as adults are. Craving meat in an emotionally toxic environment seems counterproductive to me, since the hormones in animal flesh would tend to heighten emotion—including fear—rather than bring a sense of peace or calm. Vegetables are better known to facilitate calm. I'm not sure where anyone here is CRIMINALIZING anyone for their diet, and certainly not those with a lack of awareness. (03-06-2015, 04:43 AM)Diana Wrote: Everything we do AND think is relevant to our energy fields. Marc is correct in saying that if you consume meat, you consume the fear of the animal. This is fact regarding the hormones released when slaughtered, and the hormone levels in the body of the animal from the stress of living conditions, to say nothing of the energy of fear being taken in. Diana please don't invalidate my experiences in life. My experience is valid. My body craved meat, and there was nothing wrong with that. Quote:I'm not sure where anyone here is CRIMINALIZING anyone for their diet, and certainly not those with a lack of awareness. Quote:Have no doubt: the forthcoming consensus will declare that wanton animal slaughter is sinful and criminal. Just as the Constitution speaks for us, we speak for the animals who speak no english. Indolering wrote that, maybe he meant generically criminal but I took it as lawfully criminal edit: Since we are talking about energy, I want to repeat my question. Energy is energy whether human or animal, there is no separation there. Oppression is oppression whether human or animal. Oppression is enslavement, is being lorded over by a master. "I guess the question I have for those who want to free the oppressed, can we unite on on the spiritual concept of freeing others, all of humanity, from oppression?" It's a valid question, and hopefully won't be ignored.
03-06-2015, 09:28 AM
(03-06-2015, 04:22 AM)Diana Wrote: The human body does not fit the profile physiologically for a carnivore or omnivore. The main difference besides teeth, is the length of the intestines. Humans are opportunistic, they eat what is available in the local environment in order to survive. The physiology is more general, not purely herbivore or otherwise.
03-06-2015, 01:03 PM
We can eat anything and nothing and be just fine. It's really all about what we believe we perceive. I believed I needed meat for the first 20 years of my life, and because I believed that I couldn't survive without it, I saw that reality be reinforced by experience. When I realized that I could live an even more happy existence by purifying my body of the animal products, I saw immediate results that showed it was a better path for me. Ultimately the choice is up to the individual, and everything comes at a price. Some prices are just not worth paying and I'd rather not support the further enslavement of my other/selves
03-06-2015, 03:39 PM
(03-06-2015, 07:45 AM)Shemaya Wrote:(03-06-2015, 04:43 AM)Diana Wrote: Everything we do AND think is relevant to our energy fields. Marc is correct in saying that if you consume meat, you consume the fear of the animal. This is fact regarding the hormones released when slaughtered, and the hormone levels in the body of the animal from the stress of living conditions, to say nothing of the energy of fear being taken in. I did not say there was anything wrong with what you did. I said it seemed counterproductive. Everyone's experiences are valid. Because I see things differently does not invalidate your experience, even in my own mind. To answer your question, I think it goes without saying that anyone who wants to free the oppressed would want to free humans in that equation. What makes you think otherwise? I think where we diverge is in who to free. I want all living beings freed. To free only humans is human egocentric thinking in my opinion. The blurry part of this idea is human free will, and what they are capable of doing to each other and other beings. Free will is why I don't advocate anything. As I have said here many times, this forum is an exception, as the discussions are begun by someone else; I say how I feel in this open forum to an open-minded group who seems to be interested in spiritual and philosophical exploration. I do not think I am "right," as I don't hold with the concept of right and wrong, which changes according to culture, societies, time frame, and the whims of humans. But I do have an opinion, and ideas, and feelings. Mostly, I deal daily with compassion—not the kind of compassion that makes me want to feel compassionate and do compassionate things; the kind of compassion that derives from empathy, sympathy, and caring for all living beings, and in fact for everything. It is not possible for me to single out humans to care for first, after I have embraced all life forms as my brothers and sisters and worthy of love. (03-06-2015, 03:39 PM)UDiana Wrote:(03-06-2015, 07:45 AM)Shemaya Wrote: "I guess the question I have for those who want to free the oppressed, can we unite on on the spiritual concept of freeing others, all of humanity, from oppression?" Diana, something about this doesn't make sense. First, I said nothing about freeing only humans, that's very interesting that you would interpret my question that way. What I feel to be true is that until humans are free, the animals won't be free. Our enslavement of the animals is a direct reflection of our own enslavement. I think the best way to free the oppressed animals is to free the oppressed humans. Until humans are free, nothing changes and there is no 4D and the earth descends into destruction. The only way to free them ( the animals)is for people to be active and transform our situation on this planet. Humanity is being held in spiritual chains, and we have to shake them off. I am not saying this is you or what you think and feel or anyone else here, but it would be a shame if the compassion some activists have for animals is covering over a deeper hatred for humanity and it's wayward sinful ways. I am thinking of the recent movie Noah which seemed to portray this, I don't know if you are familiar with it. Quote:Mostly, I deal daily with compassion—not the kind of compassion that makes me want to feel compassionate and do compassionate things; the kind of compassion that derives from empathy, sympathy, and caring for all living beings, and in fact for everything. It is not possible for me to single out humans to care for first, after I have embraced all life forms as my brothers and sisters and worthy of love. that is a lovely sentiment that I fully concur with, all life forms are worthy of love. I have lots of compassion and encounter many humans in my family and workplace and social spheres, empathizing, sympathizing and caring. And trying to shine light in the darkness. I think we may have a lot more in common than you think. Edit: I also love the creatures in my local environment, our cats and dogs, the hens, the deer and fox in the backyard, the owl and other birds that live in my yard, the bunnies. I appreciate them and send them love in my appreciation. I accept that the predators got 6 of my hens, sadly, but they need food too. Maybe in 4d the lion and lamb truly will lay down together, and predation will be gone. That would make sense I think.
03-07-2015, 10:01 AM
(03-06-2015, 01:03 PM)Marc Wrote: We can eat anything and nothing and be just fine. It's really all about what we believe we perceive. I believed I needed meat for the first 20 years of my life, and because I believed that I couldn't survive without it, I saw that reality be reinforced by experience. When I realized that I could live an even more happy existence by purifying my body of the animal products, I saw immediate results that showed it was a better path for me. Ultimately the choice is up to the individual, and everything comes at a price. Some prices are just not worth paying and I'd rather not support the further enslavement of my other/selves I think our beliefs are limiting. I know from my own experience that some beliefs are outright lies. Since discovering this , I am only interested in the truth, which is true whether I believe it or not. Like I said before , I think ,truthfully , when we purify our energies ( specifically the red, orange ang yellow rays) we can have a great effect in bringing about 4D and opening the collective green Ray. That all being said, it is wonderful that you are happy in your choice. How do you think this path contributes to alleviating oppression and enslavement on the whole planetary sphere? Do you think you may be unwittingly supporting enslavement of others selves in other areas of your life? If so, what can be done given that you are committed to not supporting enslavement of others?
03-07-2015, 03:51 PM
(03-07-2015, 03:50 AM)Shemaya Wrote: Diana, something about this doesn't make sense. First, I said nothing about freeing only humans, that's very interesting that you would interpret my question that way. What I feel to be true is that until humans are free, the animals won't be free. Our enslavement of the animals is a direct reflection of our own enslavement. I think the best way to free the oppressed animals is to free the oppressed humans. Until humans are free, nothing changes and there is no 4D and the earth descends into destruction. The only way to free them ( the animals)is for people to be active and transform our situation on this planet. Humanity is being held in spiritual chains, and we have to shake them off. Okay, I misinterpreted your statement about freeing all of humanity to mean just humanity. I understand your opinion on how freeing humans will precipitate the freeing of animals. I certainly agree that is one possibility. In the meantime, I personally cannot consume animals for so many reasons, including participating in their enslavement. Not participating in the enslavement of humans gets far more complex—for instance, paying taxes to a corrupt government that for one thing engages in wars. I have not seen the movie Noah. In the case of activists possibly abhorring humanity for cruelties, sure, that's reasonable. Why wouldn't it be when one can look around and see what humanity has done to the planet and all beings on it? Animals are innocent of causing this harm and suffering (it's not only factory farming, but animal testing, and all manner of horrible things such as shooting dogs with guns and throwing chickens into airplane propellors), so to focus on protecting innocent victims, I can understand. There are of course innocent humans, but there is the idea that collectively we have a responsibility for what our species has done. Hopefully those here who are helping 3D can rise above hatred in all respects. It would be an accomplishment indeed, to be able to unconditionally love all of humanity all the time. I personally don't think it's possible, being here in the trenches so to speak, without a struggle. I think it's easier for those not here, such as Ra and other beings trying to help from beyond 3D. One of the wonderful things about this forum is the opportunity to express feelings that otherwise wouldn't be heard elsewhere. I feel we all, here, can work out how we really feel about things. It's difficult to just keep things in your head, and here, we get to actually canvass important spiritual issues. I do think we are very alike in many ways. I hear the compassion in your words. We have different perspectives, and hopefully we can learn from each other.
03-23-2015, 01:33 PM
Quote:Quote:A passive 'all is well' belief will do nothing to change the current conditions on earth. An inner transformation and active effort to release the chains that bind humanity will manifest a free world.My understanding is that 90% of the "new age" movement is funded by the elite. They did this, of course, to throw in some key disinformation - like it's your thoughts that manifest reality. Your thoughts -> create actions (doing) -> which change reality. That's how it should read. Jesus didn't sit around and think about how he wanted to change reality - he went out and did it. I pasted this from another thread. These are quotes by other members. Can not this be applied to the suffering of animals? Is it good to free humanity of the chains that bind but not animals? Is all well when it comes to animals but not humanity? Should action be taken only on behalf of humans?
03-23-2015, 07:13 PM
(02-22-2015, 11:11 AM)Shemaya Wrote: Human beings have evolved as meat- eaters.....since we must eat to live, there have been many times in human history where plant sources of food were unavailable due to drought and lack of technology to store food. So animal foods have kept human beings alive. That for sure is something that even today we can have gratitude for. Anyone in a human body is here because of animals gift, they have been life- giving for humanity. Indigenous peoples did indeed need to kill animals, for clothing and shelter, especially in colder climates, where, as you say, plants weren't always available. But, the role of meat in human evolution has been overrated: Diet and Civilization by Dr. John McDougall MD Regardless, we no longer need meat for survival, and we no longer need animal skins for clothing or shelter. There may be exceptions in primitive communities, but I'm speaking in general here, about 'civilized' humans. (02-22-2015, 11:11 AM)Shemaya Wrote: We recently got a vitamix blender. It is awesome for packing in the highly dense nutrition of fruits and veggies . Highly recommended that everyone get one and have smoothies everyday. I think the key to moving away from animal protein is densely nutritious foods, very important. I love my Vitamix! It's my 2nd fav kitchen appliance...gets used several times each day. I would take it further, though, and say that nutritionally dense foods are important now, for anyone, whether veg or not, due to the depletion of nutrients in foods overall. If anything, it's even more important for meat-eaters to eat lots of greens, to partially counteract the cancer-causing properties of animal protein. As the above video by Dr. McDougall shows, it isn't complicated or difficult to thrive on a plant-based diet. A common mistake made by new vegans is not eating enough calories. Given enough calories, it's virtually impossible to not get enough protein. (02-22-2015, 11:11 AM)Shemaya Wrote: I have one co- worker who is a vegetarian. She is having scary neurological symptoms. I talked to her about B12 deficiency ( her symptoms are caused by demyelination which can be caused by B12 defiency). Her levels are adequate according to tests however. I want to talk to her more though, there are more sensitive blood tests that can confirm the deficiency. ( low homocysteine and something else). I think it is unfortunate because she became vegetarian in recent years and to have such scary symptoms is very discouraging. Why do you assume that her symptoms have anything at all to do with being vegetarian? In my business, I encounter a lot of people with health problems, and I've encountered several, over the years, who had neurological problems. All were meat-eaters. If it is B12-related, that can happen to meat-eaters too. If she is vegetarian but not vegan, it's not even an issue at all. If she ate meat until just a few years ago, it's not likely a B12 deficiency, because B12 stores take awhile to run out. Vegans do need to supplement with B12. Not doing so is a common mistake among vegans. The reason we have to supplement is that we wash our produce. The human body can synthesize B12 from bacteria, just like animals do. More on B12: http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/nov/b12.htm I agree that it is possible it's B12 deficiency, in which case it can be easily remedied. (02-22-2015, 02:08 PM)Mat Wrote: Hi, I don't understand how it can either, Mat. Here is an in-depth discussion that explores this controversial topic: Bring4th Forums Two > Health & Diet v > A Friendly Conversation: Exploring Omnivorous vs. Vegetarian Diet The link is to an index of topics covered in that thread. There is some intense disagreement about whether killing other sentient beings is compatible with the STO path. I'm in agreement with you, that it isn't. It's interesting that you went veg after reading the Law of One! That's very cool! Ironic, that you concluded thusly, while others attempt to justify eating animals, based on an interpretation of isolated passages. Amazing how different people can read the same book, but conclude differently. I didn't have any trouble quitting meat, as I quickly found it to be disgusting, but I did have trouble giving up cheese. It was education about cruelty to dairy cows, and the dairy industry feeding the meat industry, that helped me quit, even though I still think cheese is yummy! You might find these helpful: Bring4th Forums One > Strictly Law of One Material v > Ra's Statements About 2D Entities Bring4th > Bring4th Forums Two > Health & Diet v > Vegetarianism Made E-Z (Recipes and Stuff - NO debate allowed here!)
03-23-2015, 07:38 PM
(02-23-2015, 05:24 AM)Bluebell Wrote: make sure it's not ur body missing it. when i was vegetarian i craved meat horribly. One of the leading vegan doctors, Dr. Gabriel Cousens, states that some people do indeed find it challenging to go vegan. He says that it's because of metabolic typing; apparently, some people do better on higher carbs and lower fat and protein, while others do better on higher fat and protein, but lower carbs. He states that the people who had problems going vegan were those who tried to go lowfat, low protein, high carbs, when their metabolic type needed more fat an protein. This is easily remedied by adding more nuts, seeds, avocados, legumes, and...algae or other superfoods. Interestingly, Dr. Cousens claims a virtually 100% success rate with helping people thrive as vegans, if that is what they want to do. He has worked with thousands of people, including several hundred who craved meat but are now happy, healthy vegans! (02-23-2015, 05:24 AM)Bluebell Wrote: i don't think killing is natural necessarily for animals either. Very true! Many people are now successfully raising healthy vegan dogs and cats. In fact, awhile back, the record-holder for the oldest dog on the planet was a vegan! (02-23-2015, 05:24 AM)Bluebell Wrote: this planet has a bloodlust in some its occupants. who put it there? the martians? the ones who manipulated us? That's a very good question! I've been wondering that too! (02-23-2015, 06:50 PM)Mat Wrote: I'd like to know more about the body treating meat as toxins. The quick answer: Animal Protein "Turns On" Cancer Genes - T. Colin Campbell PhD Compelling info, highlighting the research: Animal Protein -- Meat and Dairy -- Cause Cancer More details about the science regarding meat as a carcinogen, higher cancer risks associated with animal protein, etc.: Forks Over Knives (02-23-2015, 06:50 PM)Mat Wrote: I have a hunch the issue is a spiritual one in the sense of the polarity of being involved in death as opposed to life. Agreed! Life begets life...death begets death ~Edgar Cayce (02-23-2015, 06:50 PM)Mat Wrote: I also have a profound confusion as to why anyone who wants the positive path, whatever route it takes, can eat of death. Me too! (02-23-2015, 06:50 PM)Mat Wrote: I'm no spring chicken and have pigged out on the fat of the lamb for donkeys years, but in the last months, since Ra, the change has bean() profound in me. But still, I miss the venison. I miss the cheese! Vegan cheeses are getting better, thankfully! What is your favorite way to eat deer? Maybe I can find some delicious recipes for you, so good that you won't even know it's not there! ---
03-23-2015, 07:57 PM
(03-04-2015, 05:20 AM)BrownEye Wrote: Humans have a clearly murderous history. Does that mean it is efficient, justified, or logical? What does it mean exactly? It means ages of "monkey see monkey do". Maybe that's why the planet, as a collective, hasn't shifted. The self-professed 'spiritual' people are waiting for it to happen, not realizing that they're helping to keep the planet stuck, by continuing to support something that cannot coexist in 4D positive.
03-23-2015, 08:01 PM
(03-05-2015, 02:53 PM)Shemaya Wrote: I guess the question I have for those who want to free the oppressed, can we unite on on the spiritual concept of freeing others, all of humanity, from oppression? Why limit it to just humanity? Why not include all sentient beings? Speciesism is just another ism. (03-05-2015, 02:43 PM)Shemaya Wrote: When I was a child I craved steak. I did too, at one time. I never ate any meat until age 10. None. My mom would give me a tiny bite and make me sit there until I ate it, even 3 hours after everyone else had finished lunch. I'd finally eat it, then promptly throw it back up. I can't say it was because I was a natural vegetarian though, because I threw up the bread and apple too. I was severely malnourished. I lived on cookies and candies. The only 'food' I ate was milk and bananas. Finally, at age 10, I resolved whatever weird issues I had, and started eating 'food.' I craved hamburger meat. I would make a huge plate of it, add a ton of salt, and eat it all, with nothing else. Just plain meat! Clearly, my body was so malnourished, that I needed a rapid injection of concentrated something. Greens weren't an option. The only veggies my mom served was canned peas and canned corn. I now know that, had my parents been educated, they could have resolved my malnutrition with plant foods. I am quite sure I would have preferred that, because I watched my parents butcher animals and I was completely disgusted. But I didn't have many options and my parents weren't educated. (03-05-2015, 02:43 PM)Shemaya Wrote: Do you think children have naturally lower vibration or higher than the adults and people around them? I think it can go either way. Many children are naturally compassionate towards animals, and refuse to eat meat once they make the connection, until their parents force them to. But then again, some children love stepping on bugs just for fun. (03-05-2015, 02:43 PM)Shemaya Wrote: I am having trouble with the approach to dietary changes that doesn't take into account the whole picture and that criminalizes people for their lack of awareness when they are just trying to live and survive. I think a concerted effort to criminalize factory farming makes total sense, get the corporate profit motive out of the picture. Then as people become more aware, the change will happen. But just like issues like criminalizing abortion or homosexuality, I think it is a bad idea and not helpful to move us forward to 4D. I haven't seen anyone here at B4 suggest criminalizing anything.
03-23-2015, 08:18 PM
(03-06-2015, 01:03 PM)Marc Wrote: We can eat anything and nothing and be just fine. It's really all about what we believe we perceive. I believed I needed meat for the first 20 years of my life, and because I believed that I couldn't survive without it, I saw that reality be reinforced by experience. When I realized that I could live an even more happy existence by purifying my body of the animal products, I saw immediate results that showed it was a better path for me. Ultimately the choice is up to the individual, and everything comes at a price. Some prices are just not worth paying and I'd rather not support the further enslavement of my other/selves That pretty much sums it up! (03-07-2015, 03:50 AM)Shemaya Wrote: I said nothing about freeing only humans, that's very interesting that you would interpret my question that way. I interpreted it that way too, because you said "all of humanity" so that seemed to indicate you meant only humans. (03-07-2015, 03:50 AM)Shemaya Wrote: What I feel to be true is that until humans are free, the animals won't be free. Our enslavement of the animals is a direct reflection of our own enslavement. And vice versa. Why separate them? Oppression is the same, whether the victim is a human or a cow. Maybe humans continue to be oppressed because of their refusal to quit oppressing their younger other-selves... :idea: (03-07-2015, 03:50 AM)Shemaya Wrote: I think the best way to free the oppressed animals is to free the oppressed humans. Until humans are free, nothing changes and there is no 4D and the earth descends into destruction. What if the same could be said about our younger other-selves? What IF: Until animals are free, nothing changes and there is no 4D... There are 7 billion humans on this planet. How many are oppressed? I don't know the answer to that, but it's probably less than half, wouldn't you say? So, maybe 3-4 billion, tops? Now compare that to 150 billion animals oppressed and killed for meat every year. More Than 150 Billion Animals Slaughtered Every Year The numbers of sentient beings being oppressed and killed, and many of them tortured, is staggering. Quote:These are the numbers of animals killed worldwide by the meat, egg, and dairy industries since you opened this webpage. These numbers do NOT include the many millions of animals killed each year in vivisection laboratories. They do NOT include the millions of dogs and cats killed in animal shelters every year. They do NOT include the animals who died while held captive in the animal-slavery enterprises of circuses, rodeos, zoos, and marine parks. They do NOT include the animals killed while pressed into such blood sports as bullfighting, cockfighting, dogfighting, and bear-baiting, nor do they include horses and greyhounds who were exterminated after they were no longer deemed suitable for racing. Hmmm...who is tilting the planet here? Yes, human oppression is a huge problem, but most of us here already agree on that. And many of us already do activism for human oppression. But the majority of people here not only disagree that animals are oppressed at all, but they continue to take part in the oppression! (03-07-2015, 03:50 AM)Shemaya Wrote: The only way to free them ( the animals)is for people to be active and transform our situation on this planet. I agree with the being active part. That's what we're doing. Being active. ---
03-24-2015, 07:32 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2015, 08:11 AM by Shemaya.
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(03-23-2015, 08:01 PM)Monica Wrote: Speciesism is just another ism. Do you know that ' speciesism' is a term made popular by by the well known ethicist Peter Singer ? He is a eugenicist through and through. My spiritual teacher used the term 'Nazi' to describe him which shocked me. Peter Singer advocates infanticide, his ethics justify killing babies with down Syndrome and other congenital disabilities. As an advocate of people with disabilities, I would never in a million years trust a single word that man says. That is my opinion. He is basically propagating elite ideology in his teaching and lectures as a university professor. I just cannot fathom any reason to promote his ideas, that is my personal conviction. Peter Singer is the author of the book AnimalLiberation That is not to say that I disagree with the liberation of animals, I am in favor of all beings everywhere being happy and free.
03-24-2015, 12:15 PM
(03-24-2015, 07:32 AM)Shemaya Wrote: Do you know that ' speciesism' is a term made popular by by the well known ethicist Peter Singer ? He is a eugenicist through and through. My spiritual teacher used the term 'Nazi' to describe him which shocked me. Peter Singer advocates infanticide, his ethics justify killing babies with down Syndrome and other congenital disabilities. No, I didn't know who coined the term specieism. But if you are going to eliminate from your vocabulary all words coined by people with views different from yours, then you'd have to eliminate probably most of the English language! Speciesism is a perfectly logical term. Racism refers to discrimination based on race, sexism refers to discrimination based on gender, so speciesism is the logical term for discrimination based on species. I really can't think of a better term than that. I don't have to agree with all the views of whoever coined the term. I find it curious that you seem to be very indignant that Peter Singer was a eugenicist. (I didn't know that about him, but I'm taking your word for it, for now, that it's true.) I share your indignation about eugenics and agree that it's abhorrent. But I find it curious that you find eugenics abhorrent, yet are ok with speciesism. You find killing human babies abhorrent (as do I) but, apparently, are ok with killing the babies of other species. You have just illustrated the very definition of speciesism.
03-24-2015, 01:06 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2015, 09:34 PM by Shemaya.
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Monica, I am really not ok with killing. As a human with a survival instinct, the thought of ending life is horrible. As far as eating meat, I think you have already thoroughly discussed every nuance and understanding regarding the killing involved with eating meat. And I am sure quite a few people have reconsidered and furthered their understanding based on what you wrote.
Speciesism ( the term)being popularized by a eugenicist is pretty insidious if you ask me. I am not jumping on that bandwagon because the thought of a eugenicist, inserting his thought- forms into unsuspecting 20 year old college students, makes me literally sickened. It is not by accident that he is so ' renowned' and popular. It is ideology that is crafted to bring people into the fold. It won't work though. People are waking up to truth, and enough will see through the obstacle to move safely forward. I think being full of gratitude for the immense gift that animals have given humans throughout the course of evolution is a connecting force that cuts through any sense of " speciesism". We are all part of the same Body, the same planet.
03-24-2015, 01:48 PM
03-24-2015, 01:54 PM
Did you read Monica's post? I was responding to that.
We could make it a new thread if it is off topic, doesn't matter to me. There was nothing wrong with talking about where ideologies originate. Was there something wrong with what I said? (03-24-2015, 01:06 PM)Shemaya Wrote: Speciesism being popularized by a eugenicist is pretty insidious if you ask me. You have it backwards. It's the people eating meat that are promoting/popularizing speciesism. That eugenicist, who happened to ALSO be a vegan and coined a term, wasn't popularizing speciesism by giving it a name. It is the people who think it's horrible to kill humans, but ok to kill sentient beings of other species, who are engaging in and, as you say, 'popularizing' speciesism, just as the slave 'owner' engages in racism, and the misogynist engages in sexism. Not the person who identifies it and gives a name to it. Call it whatever you like, but it is the people who are supporting the killing of sentient beings of other species, who are guilty of speciesism, Not the person who gave it a name. (03-24-2015, 01:06 PM)Shemaya Wrote: I am not jumping on that bandwagon because the thought of a eugenicist, inserting his thought- forms into unsuspecting 20 year old college students, makes me literally sickened. It is not by accident that he is so ' renowned' and popular. It is ideology that is crafted to bring people into the fold. That's absurd. As a vegan, I probably use that term more than anyone else here, and I didn't even know who coined it. I barely even knew the name. I have never read his book and know less about him than you do. (03-24-2015, 01:06 PM)Shemaya Wrote: I think being full of gratitude for the immense gift that animals have given humans throughout the course of evolution is a connecting force that cuts through any sense of " speciesism". We are all part of the same Body, the same planet. Are you suggesting that it's ok to continue to violate, impose suffering upon, and even kill someone just because you 'show gratitude' for them? Let's apply that to a human and see how that works: Oh, I'm going to rape and murder you, because you are a weak woman and I am a strong man, but it's ok because I have gratitude for the immense gift you are giving me. How does that work? It it works for animals but not for humans, then that's specieism. (03-24-2015, 01:54 PM)Shemaya Wrote: Did you read Monica's post? I was responding to that. You are bringing up an ideology (eugenics) that has nothing - absolutely nothing - to do with the topic of this thread. If the person who coined the term speciesism has some other beliefs you find offensive, that is irrelevant to the conversation, just as it would be irrelevant to a conversation about, say, dreams, if I disregarded everything you said because you eat meat and I don't, or you were a Republican and I was a Libertarian, or whatever. We all have differing beliefs about many things. The person who coined a certain term in the English language...who knows what he believed...it isn't relevant. You're taking this discussion onto a tangent, and I can only wonder if it's intentional, being that this is a ploy that has been played numerous times: Say something really bad about some vegan, in an effort to shift the focus away from what meat-eaters are supporting.
03-24-2015, 02:23 PM
Ok, so you decide what is relevant to the conversation?
I just explained why I don't appreciate the term speciesism, and that is perceived as a intentional ploy to what? To maybe add an alternate perspective to the conversation? To maybe see deeper into the matrix of our co- created reality? To catalyze emotion so that a deeper understanding of the distortion can be achieved? If I can't speak freely offering my perspectives without being perceived negatively, there really is no point in talking about it. |