Dear Community!
Now it is time for some venting for me!
I feel encouraged by Peregrine´s thread (Wisdom run Amok) and I wholeheartedly agree!
(Although I´m not quite sure "where" he puts me in that regard)
But I dont want to derail his thread, that´s why I started a new one.
I have to say in advance, that probably some might feel offended, this is not my intention, my intention is rather a wake-up call!
i have been here before as some might know, but I left since I felt what I have to share is not of use for anyone here.
And I have to say, things didnt change much and I am at the same point again.
The experiences and methods I am trying to share require an openness to go beyond the intellect and the willingness to "activate" deeper portions of your being, which is your HEART!
However, everytime I suggest something or contribute something along these lines, there is a strong resistance!
Either the thread just dies and nobody answers anymore, or there is some strange answers just relativating and refering to the form or some other outer aspect. Mostly nobody refers to what I am actually saying. Just defensiveness!
Some members are expecially active in this, but its more of a general vibe.
Does anybody realize there is almost no "discussion" about the content of what I am trying to say?
Its just a debating "if" the intellect is usefull or not instead of "why". There´s no refering to the specific arguments I say.
Why is that?
That really baffles me!
I mean, you are all so very scientific in your approach. Thats fine!
But wouldnt it be a scientific approach to maybe just try it? Conduct an experiment, try what this idiot suggests, do it for a while and see what kind of results it brings!
But it seems it is just being ignored!
I am not saying never think again, I am not saying never use your brain again.
All I am saying is:
Can you be open to give it a try?
I cant believe what I am trying to convey does not make sense to you.
Why dont you sit down in meditation and try to not think for maybe ten minutes?
When you´ve done this and you really didnt experience something considerably deeper, and a whole new world, then okay, then this is not usefull for you.
But I suspect you simply cant!
So could it be you turn your limitations into a "method"?
Thoughts keep bothering you whenever you sit down to meditate.
But why the f*** is there never a discussion about "how can I get beyond?"? Why dont you ask such questions?
Would your image of "i am so advanced" collapse? Do you think the others dont struggle with this?
Do you realize that there is no support if anyone offers something that is not technical, mechanical, intellectual, there is even a lot of resistance actually.
Did you notice, that over time everybody that has not a purely technical approach leaves this board? Maybe for frustration, lack of support, resistance…
I have to say, I give up up on this!
Let me share why I came to the conclusion the intellect is no good tool for seeking and why I think it is the biggest obstacle on the spiritual path, consider it my goodbye gift.
There is no need to discuss this or answer or comment. Maybe you want to read it, maybe not, maybe you can use it maybe not.
Whenever you think, you move in a conceptualized world. You create an abstraction and then you think about your abstraction. You create your abstraction based on your beliefs, limitations.
There is not much to gain, it only reflects what you already know.
Its like standing on a beach and never having been in the ocean. Then you think about the ocean, you read books about the ocean, you discuss with people about the ocean, most of these people also never have been in there. Oh, there are so many experts on ocean!
But you still have not been in there. You can think and debate for years, it will not bring you closer to the actual experience, in fact, it keeps you from going in there.
You might even believe you "know" how its in there and there is no need to really get in.
In case you ever get into the ocean, you will realize, that all the concepts have nothing to do with being in the ocean, its so completely different from what you thought!
Do you wanna spend the rest of your life standing on the beach and already "knowing" everything about the ocean?
All concepts, all thinking has something in common:
Its the intensity. Or rather the lack of intensity.
If you think about a piece of s*** or the creator, it all has the same intensity, almost no intensity.
All deeper spiritual experience has an immense intensity in common!
Remember the "steps of light"? Moving along the steps until the intensity gets too much?
Do you notice the coincidence?
All thoughts, all concepts happen in a tiny little chamber. Oh, its a little bit cold in there, this is because there is no love, thought cuts you off from love.
The creator is love, life is love. It is warm and it is huge!
it is so incredibly huge you might fear to get lost in it!
Do you believe that any concept or thought in its abstractness, coldness, lifelessness and lovenessness will ever be able to make you understand what you truly are, what life truly is, what the creator truly is?
So you stay in that tiny little chamber. yes, its safe in there. Nothing can enter that you dont want in there, you can use denial for this. Nothing threatens you.
You can completely control it, it is YOUR abstraction!
But real life is dangerous, spiritual life is dangerous!
You have to become vulnerable again to experience the miracle of life again!
Maybe you remember that you have been like that when you were very young. You closed your heart.
You´re not vulnerable anymore.
The dangers of life are no threat to you anymore, you sit in your safe concept-chamber.
But you lost all the magic, you lost life, you lost compassion and you lost love!
Was is worth the price?
Would you be willing to take the risk and open up again, little by little, leave your intellectual snail-house and see, if its maybe safe now? Do you think regaining magic, love and life would be worth the risk?
Do you realize, that thinking analyzes, fragmentized and partitions every "thing" you view?
Do you realize that you move in a space of limited dimension?
All deeper spiritual experiences I have encountered so far have a few "aspects" in common:
its all so huge, there are no borders, its infinite, it feels infinite, it feels so multidimensional and at the same time dimensionless.
There is no space and at the same time an infinite space.How can you hope to "understand" infinity with a finite instrument, with an instrument whose very use creates borders and limitations by design?
It is all eternal, there is a complete absence of time and at the same time an infinite amount of what we experience as time.
How can you expect a tool that relies on time to make you understand eternity and presence?
In thinking, consciousness feels like being in a small circle, when not thinking, the circle expands greatly and suddenly becomes a sphere. It keeps not only gaining size but also more and more dimension(s).
Do you really believe that an instrument like the intellect can give you an accurate understanding of any spiritual matter when it excludes all the "aspects" that are the very core of the experience?
And do you believe you can understand wholeness by fragmentizing it (this really should make any serious seeker laugh!)?
You are wholesness, the creator is wholeness, life is wholeness, when you seperate this in portions you understand the portions but you still dont understand wholess!
And finally: presence
The creator is absolute presence. The closer you are to the creator, the more present you are.
The whole creation is present, living in the present moment.
Except humans. At least thinking humans.
You cannot think yourself into the present moment, you can only think yourself out of the present moment.
But presence is the core of each deeper spiritual experience. I bet many of you agree here.
When you take away "presence" from a spiritual experience, it has no depth anymore.
When you think, you take away presence.
So by thinking, you take away what is needed to have a deeper spitritual experience and so make it impossible, and then you seriously expect to have usefull results from a non-present conceptualized seeking :/
Meditation would be a nice example here:
It is probably the time or occassion where your seeking is most intense, since you´re turning "inward" fully.
Now, if you believe the intellect to be a good seeking tool, wouldnt it be logical that many thoughts arise, wouldnt it be logical that your favourite and beloved instruments becomes fully activated?
But I suspect you are afraid of going deeper.
You are afraid of stillness, you are afraid of your consciousness expanding, you are afraid of your heart opening.
And so you found the perfect solution:
You seek with the intellect!
You can have a credible self-image of someone who is seeking sincerely while at the same time and with the exact same tool preventing any of those dangerous things to arise!
Seeking with a tool that makes sure you dont find what you seek!
you cant be much safer from tall those dangers
You might find this arrogant or whatever.
I have to say, I struggled and still struggle with all these things, just as you do.
But I do not deny it.And this helps me to move away from this more and more.
And so , dear fellow seekers, I hope that you are not only pissed now but maybe also inspired a little bit.
If not, I apologize for wasting your time.
I wont waste your time anymore nor will I waste mine.
I wish you all a good, fruitfull and enjoyable journey on this planet!
Sincerely
Agua
P.S.: For the not very probable case somebody feels drawn to discuss this further, feel free to PM me anytime