Why the hate for wisdom?
09-23-2019, 06:17 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-23-2019, 06:33 PM by Nuria Luz.)
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-22-2019, 11:25 PM)Infinite Wrote:  
(05-22-2019, 07:39 PM)anagogy Wrote:  [Image: comedians-are-on-the-front-lines-in-the-...;amp;w=600]

Do you would defend the free speech of an Orion recipient? If not, you will understand why the free speech of far right people should not be allowed. Without limits it's impossible the basic civilizatory experience. And seems they will come us to another world war (as in the past). It always end like that.

If the confederation does respect their free will, why not you? If I remember well, they only used that shield thing around the planet when orion started infringing free will. In any other event they do not interfer.

Also you said somenthing really disturbing in a different post, something along the line "for love to be have it is ok to restrict freedom"... Please, DON'T love me! Get someone esle!
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09-25-2019, 06:46 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(09-23-2019, 06:17 PM)Nuria Luz Wrote:  Also you said somenthing really disturbing in a different post, something along the line "for love to be have it is ok to restrict freedom"... Please, DON'T love me! Get someone esle!

It doesnt work like that in positive societies.

Someone negative can not stay in the positive society. S/he is outcast. Accepted to the point where it can be worked out, after that point, the society separates ways with the incompatible entity.

This is for 3d positive situations, of course.

In 4d positive and higher, there isnt even much need for society to do anything - just being negative will make the entity incompatible with the actual physical environment due to incompatibility of its vibration, and it will put it under immense pressure.

If the entity does not adapt and turn positive, it will collapse - psychologically, mentally, physically. Incarnation will end.

Then, if the entity is actually positive inside but has behavioral/mental biases that causes it to negative behavior, some way for the entity to learn will be arranged. This may include being sent as a wanderer to some other planet.

Or if the entity is actually negative polarized, it will be placed in a negative planet or experience nexus. It will experience whatever negativity it needs to experience and manifest.

........

More fundamentally, in respect to dealing with positive or negative thoughts, thought forms, vibrations, Ra explains that the positive entity must recognize the undesired thought, entity or form as part of the creator and hence part of its larger being, but must let it go as it is not compatible with its positive path.

3d society is no different. The moment you help those who seek to end freedom to organize with the very tools you create to provide freedom, you end that freedom.
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09-25-2019, 09:50 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(09-23-2019, 06:17 PM)Nuria Luz Wrote:  If the confederation does respect their free will, why not you?

Again, I believe we can't compare the Confederation actions with ours. They are gods to us. Here we are "playing" at the same level.

(09-23-2019, 06:17 PM)Nuria Luz Wrote:  If I remember well, they only used that shield thing around the planet when orion started infringing free will. In any other event they do not interfer.

They combat Orion constantly. It's not only the quarantine.

(09-23-2019, 06:17 PM)Nuria Luz Wrote:  IAlso you said somenthing really disturbing in a different post, something along the line "for love to be have it is ok to restrict freedom"... Please, DON'T love me! Get someone esle!

Can you quote the exact post? And it's obvious that it's necessary some degree of restriction of freedom to the basic civilizing experience. That is called laws.
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11-27-2019, 04:15 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(09-23-2019, 06:17 PM)Nuria Luz Wrote:  
(05-22-2019, 11:25 PM)Infinite Wrote:  
(05-22-2019, 07:39 PM)anagogy Wrote:  [Image: comedians-are-on-the-front-lines-in-the-...;amp;w=600]

Do you would defend the free speech of an Orion recipient? If not, you will understand why the free speech of far right people should not be allowed. Without limits it's impossible the basic civilizatory experience. And seems they will come us to another world war (as in the past). It always end like that.

If the confederation does respect their free will, why not you? If I remember well, they only used that shield thing around the planet when orion started infringing free will. In any other event they do not interfer.

Also you said somenthing really disturbing in a different post, something along the line "for love to be have it is ok to restrict freedom"... Please, DON'T love me! Get someone esle!
Quote:If the confederation does respect their free will, why not you?
And to add, this is a way we polarize. For the positive, is to allow the free will of others and possibly not be in total agreement with them or for the negative polarization, trick someone into thinking their free will is honored and to accept the offer of enslavement from the Orion crusaders or any who offers enslavement. The Orion will lose polarization to force someone into a powerless position, they must get your consent, thus trickery works good. This comes from session 67.11:

Quote:In the case of those with whom you, as entities and as a group, are not in
resonance, you wish them love, light, peace, joy, and bid them well. No
more than this can you do, for your portion of the Creator is as it is, and
your experience and offering of experience, to be valuable, needs be more
and more a perfect representation of who you truly are.
I  don't know anything
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12-08-2019, 07:33 AM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-18-2019, 08:23 AM)Jade Wrote:  In 4th density, when the veil drops, we will have a group mind. In the group mind, we cannot think things like, "trans people have mental illness" or "women are too weak to protect others" or "that person needs to get out of their victim mentality".

I don't think 4th density works like that. The relevant quotes from Ra are, I feel, these:

"[fourth density] is not of disharmony within self. It is not of disharmony within peoples."

"it is a plane wherein individual differences are pronounced although automatically harmonized by group consensus"

Any thoughts had by one entity, and the subconscious motivations for having these thoughts, will be revealed to the entity itself. This will make it so that, if (hypothetically speaking) there were any hatred, judgement or overall negativity producing the thought, the entity would be able to course correct on its own quite easily.

Now, if an other-self has a thought, we telepathically pick up on it, and this thought were also to produce in us negative emotions, the very first part of the process would be the same: Instant transparecy for the self by the self regarding the possible subconscious reasons why the thoughts of the other-self caused negativity in us. This too would be instantly corrected by the self.

The two parts are essential. Not only is there a process involved that seems to make sure in an automatic fashion that an entity doesn't deliberately act or think anything that degrades other-selves, but also entities are much less prone to take offense in things. They are more tolerant, and more prone to accepting the huge diversity that comes in the forms of other-selves, their opinions, and their idiosyncratic ways of seeking the truth.

So, when taking as an example a statement that an entity may make about women as a whole, yes, any possible judgement or resentment towards women, if present, will be picked up by the entity generating this thought, and we can assume that the entity itself will course correct on its own. But if a generalization is made from a pure and honest study of the masculine and feminine archetypes, any other-self potentially offended by this would look at and work on its own negativity, without asking for censorship, without calling anybody a biggot in an attempt to ruin their social reputation, and with direct awareness of every aspect within the self that may cause disharmony.

There are people today that genuinely get offended when someone implies that there are differences between the masculine and the feminine as archetypes. There are also genuinely sexist people who are not interested in an honest intellectual analysis of these archetypes. Both of these kinds of people would have a hard time with their own very selves, if they were to suddenly find themselves in fourth density. So, to equate fourth density to pure leftist ideas, or to political correctness, is in my opinion a huge misrepresentation of what fourth density really is. To truly get to know why we do what we do, and why we think what we think... A lot of hard truths would have to be swallowed. By everybody.
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12-08-2019, 07:42 AM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-23-2019, 10:08 AM)Jade Wrote:  The problem with allowing alt-right ideology like Jordan Peterson(...)

I used to spend many hours watching material by Jordan Peterson. I used to be a big fan of the man. Not so much now, as I disagree with him on a few key points, but I still think the man has an enormous amount of wisdom, and many of his teachings can be truly invaluable for us on the STO path. I consider his analysis on why people fall into negativity and into "evil" to be spot on, it creates a lot of awareness and compassion as to how "evil" (STS) behavior is, in the end, a product of a perception of lack of love. Furthermore, he teaches personal responsibility, and urges people to take a long and hard look at themselves, to recognize our own shadow side and potential for evil. This is completely in line with the notion that each of us is the infinite, that we are all things, all situations, all emotions. An essential part of the STO path, and indeed, the main challenge of it, is to learn how to love our friends that choose the opposite polarity. This includes first recognizing within ourselves our own potential for darkness, and getting to love this side of ourselves.

To call Jordan Peterson a right-winger (let alone an alt-right) is something that I see as a huge misrepresentation. But even if he were on the right, the mainstream left, in all it's supposed compassion, doesn't teach the kind of love this work of his teaches. Much that I see from the left today as coming from a supposed place of compassion is just selective compassion; and not very good compassion, at that. Teaching other people to be angry at the system, or at their perceived oppressors, is not compassion. In fact, that kind of mentality has the greatest dangers of all, which is to turn the tables and to justify acts of aggression against a perceived oppressor.

I realize that this is a complicated subject, and it's not my intent to ignore the reality that some groups can be or are under hard situations caused by a different group. But we forget how ridiculously easy it is to dehumanize a person once we have decided, in our minds, to label him or her as an aggressor. By doing that, we are telling our most basic and primitive instincts that it's open season. Jordan Peterson brings awareness to these things in a world that is not teaching personal responsibility very much these days.

I realize I may be giving unsolicited advice, Jade, but I would urge you to consider whether it was gratuitous or not to put Jordan Peterson together with alt-rights, Pepe, anti trans, anti muslims (etc) and what within you could have prompted this.

I see this quote of yours:

(05-23-2019, 10:08 AM)Jade Wrote:  The left isn't murdering people in the streets over politics and religion. The right is.

And it just seems so divisive to me. I understand the temptation to demonize the right as a whole (as someone who leans towards the left myself, I can relate). But I think it's crucial to consider the right in its archetypal form to have great value of its own. This is also something that Jordan Peterson talks about, and something that I consider a pearl of wisdom, and it's that the left, in its pure form, is about change, it's about moving forward, sometimes at the expense of moving things too fast, or of changing things that didn't need to be changed whatsover. Whereas the right, on the other hand, is about knowing what works, what has worked in the past, honoring those things and sticking to them; the weakness being a complacency, a reluctance to change a tradition or model that has overstayed its welcome, of being afraid of anything new, even if it's better.

I believe we can put this in strong connection with the divine flow of evolution in the universe. Everything is always changing in the universe, all of Creation is heading towards a goal or destination, which gives validity to the archetypal left. On the other hand, there needs to be acceptance of where an entity, SMC or planet is at in its current state of evolution. Evolution is inevitable, but it is slow; literally millions of years slow; so we can't be expected to change at a faster pace than we can handle, and for that, it's essential to know what works for us in our current state, to know our foundation, biases and tendencies, both at the individual and collective levels. Ra themselves advised extreme caution and patience in regards to the notion of polarizing more rapidly than the mind/body/spirit complex can handle. "To know your self is to have the foundation upon firm ground".

So, I believe that the correct answer, both in the political sphere and in the divine flow of Creation, is a balance between the left and the right. When either of them is demonized, not only is that a fertile ground for negativity, but an important part of the flow of Creation is denied.

Going back to Jordan Peterson, I have a feeling he's a 5th density wanderer, because I really believe that he has just so many pearls of wisdom that can be directly connected to the material that Ra teaches, even if Peterson doesn't realize this himself. What I see in him is a considerable lack of love, first and foremost, of love and compassion towards himself. You can tell that this is a man who is extremely hard on himself. As such, this lack of love shows in some of his perspectives about life. Nonetheless, this doesn't negate to me all that he offers. And to be quite frank, I consider it very unsettling that any kind of discussion even has to be had about "allowing" his teachings.
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12-08-2019, 03:24 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
This thread contains a lot of things, but if a larger and more detached view from a relative newcomer is of interest, here's some general impressions.

Early, some good information was posted. Jade's early post about misinterpretations of the Law of One material was personally useful, as it described a big part of what's wrong in the Cassiopaea community (which I was involved in for a number of years).

Soon after in this thread, it all spiraled into a drama which mainly informs about the nature of such drama. Actually, my personal hindsight view is that the moderation here may have been too lenient, because as mentioned later on, a number of people left due to the general drama on the forum around that time. On some other forums, a fairly balanced approach to handling such situations is that of temporarily suspending people who greatly disrupt the life of the online community, somewhat earlier on; after a month or so, they can participate again, at which time they have hopefully cooled off and can participate without being so combative.

However that may be, the "climate" has shifted again and the times seem to have returned to something much more calm.

This discussion ties into the thread '"Political Correctness" and Fourth Density'. I have the same general impressions regarding the whole left vs. right thing, but more strongly, now reading through the rest of this thread. Part 1 is:
(10-29-2019, 03:03 PM)Asolsutsesvyl Wrote:  I think it may be confusing to define a basically good-natured and respectful approach to others as political correctness.

Political correctness is basically when an ideology becomes the criteria for acceptability. It is rigid, and in principle, a computer program could do the judging.

[...] I think that striving to become more balanced, and develop a genuine understanding, works far better than a system in which rules are "socialized" into the participants. Socialization basically amounts to replacing the natural with the artificial, deadening the soul-based conscience and replacing it with morality combining culture with the physical primate nature. [...] (The catch as regards spiritual work is, only people with positive souls in charge become positive when morality is destroyed.)

It's much messier in the world of people who aren't into positive spiritual development, of course.

Regarding pro-left vs. pro-right views, I generally think it's a shame when people get stuck in these loops of conventional thinking which don't lead anywhere except sustaining themselves at the cost of understanding of those with the opposite leanings.

Much better thinking is possible, building upon the foundation of ideas already part of the basic thinking in this community. Some posts go that way, rising above the conflict and bringing some clarity.

Ideological frames of mind provide lenses which bring some things into focus while obscuring other areas of reality. The more is seen through a lens, the more compelling the dogmas associated with it become. When what is seen through the filter becomes connected to personal emotional experience, tunnel vision results.

When contemplating larger psychological patterns, a depressing view of humanity going in circles and different generations leaping into different types of tunnel vision results. Basically sensible people on each side of a divide cling to the better ideals they have, while the thinking doesn't rise above the narrow filtering which hides the corresponding flaws, and the set of good ideals and flaws on the other side.

It can be difficult to destroy ideological filters in oneself, because they become tied to ideas of what the truth is. Inner upheaval and emotionally living through the contradictions and absurdities reached through each narrow standpoint can lead beyond it all, to a more detached and balanced perspective. That type of inner change opens the door to greater understanding, at which point the words and slogans of ideologies become far less convincing, and it all begins to look hollow.

If the old ideological "programs" are avoided, and larger thoughts and patterns are examined instead, it becomes possible to bridge gaps in understanding without meaningless fights about vacuous symbols and slogans (whether associated with the left or the right).

That's possible between people who are into growth of understanding. I mean, there's no hope that it will happen on a mass scale. There's not really any need of such hope, either. Humanity is what it is, and what grows when growing beyond old patterns happens in individuals, perhaps connected to a future "not of this world", i.e. not of the 3D monkey business in which the dynamics of primates are extended with complex memes and in complicated societies, but remains the same in essence.

Perhaps it looks very different to people who strongly feel that this or that group of people are "my people", and there's other people who are "not my people". I.e., us vs. them. I cannot really believe in that in the same way any longer; appearances deceive, and what unites and divides people tends to exist on the levels of physical life, and of memes living a life of their own through human hosts who blindly "run" and propagate them.

Most conflicts in this world are like the senseless and meaningless results of machines moving around and violently bumping into one another in pseudo-random patterns which change over time. Almost all meaning perceived in it appears, on a closer look, to be illusion. With such "machines" doing what they do, s*** simply happens, and that's the heart of the meaning to be found in it, along with the potential choice to go a different route and strive to become something else.
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