Why the hate for wisdom?
05-20-2019, 05:50 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-20-2019, 05:27 PM)Cyan Wrote:  
(05-20-2019, 05:26 PM)Merrick Wrote:  As a Jewish person living in an area with multiple active white supremacist groups, I can tell you that fascism and the alt right are not some made up media boogeyman.

As a finnish person living next to a former communist country with many current communist groups seeking to take over former territoy. I can tell you that communism and alt left are not a made up media boogeyman.

Felt I should comment.

Yes, Communists are real. The “alt left” is a media created boogeyman though, designed to draw false parallels between the far left, which is largely disorganized and fractured, and the far right, which is highly organized and funded by STS elites. Those on the far right use the term “alt right” to disassociate themselves from Nazism in the eyes of the public (a tactic that’s largely failed since the far right cannot help but trot out Nazi imagery and slogans), whereas the various fractured far left groups don’t use the label alt left except to make fun of the media pundits who try to make it a thing.
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05-20-2019, 05:58 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-20-2019, 05:46 PM)anagogy Wrote:  
(05-20-2019, 05:10 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:  
Quote:draconian social control laws

Like those that charge women with murder for getting an abortion or having a suspicious miscarriage, even if they are raped? Do you have an example of a law that you know that has passed recently that limits free speech in a "draconian" way? I'm really asking specifically in the US, but I would accept any other examples of where this is happening, because I like to be woke about these things, too, and if it's a real problem, actively denounce it as well.

In the US it is mostly just SJW trying to shame or harass people into submission if they say something they don't like. Like someone will express an opinion, and these *psychopaths* will do everything in their power to get them fired from their job for it. In Canada you have the compelled speech law bill C16 which basically made it illegal to not use made up pronouns, of which there are an infinite variety, for "new genders". But I think this is just the beginning. There are people in the US trying to pass laws for similar things, and then they will keep pushing the envelope once they get their foot in the door. Next you know, it will be illegal to say other words (whatever those end up being). It is a slippery slope, and once we start sliding, free speech will disappear quickly because people in power don't want the "commoners" to have it. It is inconvenient for them.









(05-20-2019, 05:26 PM)Merrick Wrote:  As a Jewish person living in an area with multiple active white supremacist groups, I can tell you that fascism and the alt right are not some made up media boogeyman.

I never said they didn't exist, I just said they don't represent the majority.

Well, when they threaten my life and the lives of my family, it doesn’t really matter if they’re currently in the majority or not. The Nazi Party in Germany was a minority at one point as well. We ignore fascism at our peril.

And I must say I find it humorous that you argue that the media is the biggest tool of Orion (which incidentally I agree with), but then use clips from Fox News and Prager U to validate your clearly exaggerated claims of “psychopathic” leftists. Right wing media is just as Orion controlled as the rest of the major media. It’s all designed to prevent people from unifying. Ra says this is an explicit aim of Orion. You may wish to consider the sources you get your information from.

As for “social justice” vs “blind justice”, we don’t live on a just planet. Many suffer at the hands of the few. Attempts to confront, challenge, and undo those injustices, which are numerous, in my mind should be supported and I feel it’s part of my duty as an STO polarized mind/body/spirit complex to recognize, validate, and aid oppressed people as best I can.
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05-20-2019, 06:04 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-20-2019, 06:04 PM by anagogy.)
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-20-2019, 05:58 PM)Merrick Wrote:  Well, when they threaten my life and the lives of my family, it doesn’t really matter if they’re currently in the majority or not. The Nazi Party in Germany was a minority at one point as well. We ignore fascism at our peril.

And I must say I find it humorous that you argue that the media is the biggest tool of Orion (which incidentally I agree with), but then use clips from Fox News and Prager U to validate your clearly exaggerated claims of “psychopathic” leftists. Right wing media is just as Orion controlled as the rest of the major media. It’s all designed to prevent people from unifying. Ra says this is an explicit aim of Orion. You may wish to consider the sources you get your information from.

As for “social justice” vs “blind justice”, we don’t live on a just planet. Many suffer at the hands of the few. Attempts to confront, challenge, and undo those injustices, which are numerous, in my mind should be supported and I feel it’s part of my duty as an STO polarized mind/body/spirit complex to recognize, validate, and aid oppressed people as best I can.

I've had my life threatened by social justice warriors for expressing certain views, so don't assume you're the only one being threatened.

And as for news, I think most of it is STS, that doesn't mean all of it is. I would say pre Obama era, the right was definitely a more evil influence, but now it has done a complete 180.

You may also wish to consider the sources you get your information from.

I'm surprised that we can't find common ground on the fact that people shouldn't be fined or go to jail for saying the wrong WORDS. I think that is very obviously draconian and wrong. But who needs free speech right? We have social justice.

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05-20-2019, 06:09 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-20-2019, 06:04 PM)anagogy Wrote:  
(05-20-2019, 05:58 PM)Merrick Wrote:  Well, when they threaten my life and the lives of my family, it doesn’t really matter if they’re currently in the majority or not. The Nazi Party in Germany was a minority at one point as well. We ignore fascism at our peril.

And I must say I find it humorous that you argue that the media is the biggest tool of Orion (which incidentally I agree with), but then use clips from Fox News and Prager U to validate your clearly exaggerated claims of “psychopathic” leftists. Right wing media is just as Orion controlled as the rest of the major media. It’s all designed to prevent people from unifying. Ra says this is an explicit aim of Orion. You may wish to consider the sources you get your information from.

As for “social justice” vs “blind justice”, we don’t live on a just planet. Many suffer at the hands of the few. Attempts to confront, challenge, and undo those injustices, which are numerous, in my mind should be supported and I feel it’s part of my duty as an STO polarized mind/body/spirit complex to recognize, validate, and aid oppressed people as best I can.

I've had my life threatened by social justice warriors for expressing certain views, so don't assume you're the only one being threatened.

And as for news, I think most of it is STS, that doesn't mean all of it is. I would say pre Obama era, the right was definitely a more evil influence, but now it has done a complete 180.

You may also wish to consider the sources you get your information from.

I'm surprised that we can't find common ground on the fact that people shouldn't be fined or go to jail for saying the wrong WORDS. I think that is very obviously draconian and wrong. But who needs free speech right? We have social justice.

I actually said nothing one way or the other about going to jail for saying words because I don’t necessarily agree with your basic premise, given what you are citing as sources.

I will bow out of this thread now, it’s not what I wish to be discussing on here.
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05-20-2019, 06:19 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-20-2019, 06:09 PM)Merrick Wrote:  I actually said nothing one way or the other about going to jail for saying words because I don’t necessarily agree with your basic premise, given what you are citing as sources.

I will bow out of this thread now, it’s not what I wish to be discussing on here.

Truth is truth regardless of who's mouth it comes out of. But it is easy to dismiss something because you dislike the particular mouth it comes out of. Ad hominem attacks on a source in an attempt to discredit don't constitute logical counter arguments.

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05-20-2019, 06:58 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
From what I read of the bill being in Canada using the wrong pronoun once/twice or accidentally would not fall under the criminal code. In cases of repeated purposeful use it would be considered harassment.

This is a non issue because you don’t have to say he/her she/him ect at all.
One could say .. they, this person, ect .. so only if one WISHED to use a pronoun repeatedly to willfully harass someone it would be counted as harassment since they are now protected by anti discrimination laws.

The only actual change was adding gender identity to the groups protected by the human rights act.
So one can now not treat them worse than we treat other marginalized groups.
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05-20-2019, 07:47 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-20-2019, 05:46 PM)anagogy Wrote:  
(05-20-2019, 05:10 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:  
Quote:draconian social control laws

Like those that charge women with murder for getting an abortion or having a suspicious miscarriage, even if they are raped? Do you have an example of a law that you know that has passed recently that limits free speech in a "draconian" way? I'm really asking specifically in the US, but I would accept any other examples of where this is happening, because I like to be woke about these things, too, and if it's a real problem, actively denounce it as well.

In the US it is mostly just SJW trying to shame or harass people into submission if they say something they don't like. Like someone will express an opinion, and these *psychopaths* will do everything in their power to get them fired from their job for it. In Canada you have the compelled speech law bill C16 which basically made it illegal to not use made up pronouns, of which there are an infinite variety, for "new genders". But I think this is just the beginning. There are people in the US trying to pass laws for similar things, and then they will keep pushing the envelope once they get their foot in the door. Next you know, it will be illegal to say other words (whatever those end up being). It is a slippery slope, and once we start sliding, free speech will disappear quickly because people in power don't want the "commoners" to have it. It is inconvenient for them.








Fox News? Prager University? I'm actually kind of shocked, I wouldn't consider either of these legitimate sources of truthful information in any way whatsoever. I watched them, too, and my discernment tells me that they are just dripping with propaganda. Sorry, anagogy. I also don't believe a word Jordan Peterson says, after his disinfo campaign to try to hijack a bill that was about protecting people in the same ways that others are protected into making it look like it is meant to attack people and remove free speech. In my opinion this is a gross misinterpretation to incite people to unintentionally support division. I realize know we have divergent points of view on this. I agree it's a slippery slope, but it's also such a weird hill for so many people to be dying on these days. I wish we could have this many people being as passionate as they are about their defense of their freedom to harass a transgendered person as about well, basically any one of the legitimate threats to human liberty that affect the absolute vast majority of us.

I'm not afraid of restriction of freedom of speech. To me, this seems like a projection of a yellow and blue ray blockage. If someone silences me about something I am truly passionate about, which they have actually, on quite a large political scale even that involved a lot of money, I'm just going to find another platform to get my thoughts out to people who want to hear them. I can't even picture what the actual removal of freedom of speech looks like in the days of the internet. No matter how much they try to control the web, the more people will find ways to get around it. Even in that article I linked, most of the victims of deplatforming had found other platforms or just created a new account and started over. It just seems like, ultimately, something I'm not smelling the smoke for, yet. Yet trans people actually are losing their lives because of transphobia, whether suicide or murder/homicide. The fire is burning. Your video is about one teacher fired over the wrong use of pronouns - what about the countless people who were fired just because they were transgendered? Do you feel any outrage or sympathy for them?



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05-20-2019, 09:53 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-20-2019, 03:02 PM)kristina Wrote:  
(05-20-2019, 11:18 AM)Relaxo Wrote:  
(05-20-2019, 09:27 AM)kristina Wrote:  
(05-19-2019, 01:34 AM)Relaxo Wrote:  Putting this out there for the mod team:

I've said this before in pm - now saying it here publicly - moderation is ridiculously lenient... newbies should be put on probation to show they can behave politely and in a civil manner... there should be a questionnaire asked to be read and signed; as well as reading and signing that you expressly agree with the forum guidelines

B4 - for years now has needed some form of 'gatekeeping'... because without it - there's no duty of care.

I don't want probation.....I only wanted to hear others and learn more of the Law of One. I also wanted to see my own distortions and learn from them as well. Isn't that what is taking place here in this thread? Part of learning to balance the self is to see the self in relation to the other self even in the wake of extreme discord. Relaxo. I love you. Please....I don't want probabtion!

Glow mentioned it was how a forum she joined went about things... and it came up because we've had a new forum member - only 3 weeks since joining, on b4th shouting in caps at people telling them they're "FULL OF HATE!!" etc and - "oh here's the most hated person (about me)" etc...  and then Cyan joining in saying to me f*** off dirtbag despite me telling him I have cared about him...

nb- womyn is a very old feminist spelling... I'm surprised he knows it...another one is wimmin

Drastic abuse calls for 'drastic' changes - but why would you be put on probation?

You've just read from Jade, the abuse mods receive (in pm's) and how over this they are... they're burnt out - I also knew this from pm's over a long while... and I know Jade has experienced bullying before and since she's been a mod. She's an incredibly patient loving person.

There's a LOT of time consuming work in moderation... reading everything - keeping up with all the threads...

I've had bullying occur to me here under past accounts... and I'm quite hated by at least 2 current members and now from this thread - it's very clear to me that 2 more people hate me... I can handle it these days - but it's been a 'wild ride'... fortunately I've learnt a lot from it all - but several years ago I was very very suicidal and this place hurt me badly

I have friends who want to join b4 but who literally would become too stressed/depressed or hurt by energies/interactions here... Sad

this place can be hostile so much of the time. The other thing I want to say - is that moderation (a feeling of safety) would mean the conversations would increase... this place has dwindled over the years to sometimes so few new posts and just a small few regular 'voices'... so ideas of moderation making people leave are incorrect imo - people leave all the time (or are silent) because of the lack of guidelines for behaviour being enforced.

[....]

we teach people how we want to be treated by what we will and won't allow... same for a forum... L/L put those guidelines in place FOR A REASON...

remember we're not running it or doing the hard work...  or keeping the legacy alive

I said I don't want probation because I'm new. But I seriously try to respect others while still disagreeing with them.
I hear what you are saying loud and clear. I clearly see that our emotions run with us when it concerns something we feel deeply about. Some can defend it and pull out all the stops when proving how much they love their ideas, ideals and beliefs. I'm not saying this is you.....I am saying that's what I have witnessed. As you know and I too, that emotions can form like snow balls going downhill but there are those of us who can stop, reel it in and those who won't. Humans are delightful until they are faced some of the catalysts that have been presented here and in other threads.
Look, there will be a time that I will not agree with you but I feel as you do, I love you anyway.
As long as this forum is open to the public, it will encounter people who love to stir the pot and then laugh at the results. They will feel like they have really accomplished something. While the rest of us only want to learn from one another both positive and negative aspects of each personality (soul, living soul) that comments. Afterall, isn't that what this forum is for? For the seekers who want to connect and gleen from the more experienced, to be heard and not be ridiculed? BTW, I am sorry someone could hate you. I do not. I could not. Best to ya girl!

I don't know how new you are... but in the situation Glow describes in another forum - you'd have passed 'probation' a long while back as you've never posted anything (that I've seen) that's counter to the guidelines.

Quote:1) The Cornerstone
The key governing principle of the entire Bring4th community, and all L/L Research social media venues, is the request that all members treat others with respect, especially when disagreeing. The participant may disagree to the bone with an idea without personally attacking the author.

2) Service to Others
L/L Research and the Bring4th Forums are designed to facilitate, enhance, and encourage the increase of the positive polarity. This is reflected in the Guidelines and the Bring4th Principles.

Polarity—service to others (STO) and service to self (STS)—plays a strong and frequent part in forum discussion. This is as it should be, for not only is the concept of polarity a central thread in the Law of One philosophy, but it is also at the heart of our experience of third density, aka: our everyday lives. It is a discussion that should be continually revisited in the life of the spiritual seeker. Members do not necessarily need to subscribe to the framework of polarity in this sense, but it should be understood that these concepts will be central to any discussion within a community which gathers to discuss this material.

5) Negative Philosophies
Ours is a forum dedicated to the exploration, promotion, and living of the service-to-others polarity as defined in the Law of One material. This does not mean that discussions about the service-to-self polarity are prohibited, only that promotion of philosophies and information which:

*exhibit elements of deception and manipulative thinking
*generate fear
*reject or discourage universal love
*encourage or promote control of self or others

are considered to be not in alignment with the principles of spiritual evolution espoused by Confederation sources and are thus subject to moderation and/or removal.

7) Impermissible Speech
Discussions that promote or endorse racial / sexual / national intolerance, hate speech, politically subversive acts or planning, will not be tolerated.


from the page about Bring 4th Principles:


Quote:Bring4th Principles

The website, Bring4th.org, was made with three parts spirit, one part technology, and eight parts heart, with a colored donut sprinkle, or two, of wisdom. It was constructed, designed, and put into motion on the basis of principles intended to guide its evolution and shape its journey.

The principles stem from, and are articulated by, the channeled material and general work of L/L Research, the vision of the organization’s founders, the vision community’s founders, and the daily interactions of each who contributes their energy—whether silently or vocally.

In short, those principles divide into two broad categories:

   How we relate to one another.
   The content of our contributions.


Respect, kindness, and compassion, aka: the path of service to others, define the former.

The focus on the spiritual principles of the L/L-Research philosophy defines the latter.

For a shortened version of these principles, stick to the bolded text. For the longer version, read the cream filling in between.


How We Relate to One Another

Service to others
L/L Research and its community are, to be clear, biased. We are consciously and unapologetically biased toward what in the Confederation philosophy is called service to others. We seek to enhance, increase, and deepen that bias; to pursue the path of service-to-others as far as it may lead.

We are not here to get beyond polarity, or to transcend polarity. We are here to polarize. To know our polarity. To understand our polarity. To become even stronger upon the positive path. Indeed, the more we polarize, the greater our capacity to do work in consciousness.

What does that mean and how does that manifest? The following principles do not authoritatively capture or define service to others through an online community, but they point in the general direction.


Respect
The first and cornerstone guideline of the forums asks that we treat each other with respect. Ideally each would take that even further and love all others as part of the self, but that all-encompassing love is the fruit of great spiritual discipline, whereas “respect” is a frequency and attitude to which we can more rapidly and consciously calibrate our vision.

What is the greatest way to respect another member? Simple. To respect and honor their exercise of free will, wherever it may lead them. That doesn’t mean to be without personal or collective boundaries (more on that below), just that the member consciously recognizes that the other member has a sacred right and duty to form their own point of view, and no matter how seemingly skewed, the other self’s point of view is right for them.

One specific way to exercise respect on this particular forum is to assume a context of positive polarization for all who participate here.


Tolerance and Acceptance
In continuation of the previous principle but with different emphasis, the backbone of the Bring4th culture is one of tolerance for a diversity of views—aka: views that are not your own—within the larger context of spiritual evolution.

This is not to say that we make other views our own with which we disagree, or that we rush to embrace an opinion that is at odds with our own. It means rather that we offer each person the space to form and express their point of view (within liberal and reasonable limits, of course); we refrain from making a personal attack of the author, or belittling their viewpoint, or treating their idea with any form of judgment, derision, or scorn.

While the information we all share with one another is certainly very important, and a great source of catalyst and continuing education, the greater lesson of Bring4th is simply learning to get along with, accept, and even genuinely love one another.

We are here first and foremost to learn to serve one another, and to see the other and the self as the Creator; secondarily to learn information.


Working in harmony
By tolerating and accepting a diversity of viewpoints, and respecting each other, we naturally magnetize ourselves to work together in harmony, in concert, in that magical way of proportion, rhythm, and balance that brings separate individuals notes into relationship in order to make music.


We understand that the greater the compassion with which we treat each other, even and especially when disagreeing, the greater and more beautiful the collective song of Bring4th; the greater the harmony that sends its energetic waves into a considerably disharmonious planetary environment.

Our goal is harmony, our means of achieving the goal is harmony, and when disharmony inevitably strikes, our efforts are bent upon restoring harmony—with patience and the light touch.


Supporting one another
Being service to others in nature and purpose, we naturally seek to support one another. While nurturing and expressing the self is critical, we recognize that we are here for others as well, which sometimes means that we must set aside our need for self-oriented expression, and put the other-self at the center of our intention and communication.

It may seem that posting to forums, or sharing communication through digital mediums, is a limited and ineffectual tool to help others. That is emphatically not the case. A simple expression of love, a little word of encouragement—anything that in any small way expresses an intention to help—is registered by the other self, and has the potential to radically uplift and heal. We are consciousness affecting consciousness, people affecting people; energy moves between us, impacts us, changes us, pushes us away from each other or brings us close together.

The forums, the keyboard, and the internet connection are simply the vehicle or medium for the movement of something greater and deeper: each other. We recognize that we are ultimately here to be here for each other.

We recognize that life on this planet is difficult for most who live upon the surface, including those with seemingly pleasant outer circumstances. We seek to be actively sensitive to each other’s needs, to be a safe refuge to each other, to listen to one another, to give humble counsel where needed, to offer to each other possibly even therapy—not through clinical therapeutic techniques, necessarily—but simply by doing our utmost to create an environment of unconditional love.


Conflict Resolution
Despite the best of our intentions, and the sincerity of our hearts, as Forrest Gump undeniably first said, s*** will happen. We will hurt one another. We will step on one another’s toes. We may even lose self-control and lash out at another.

But what distinguishes this community is that we attempt not to dwell, linger, and energize that disharmony overly long. Instead, after the scuffle has taken place, we dust ourselves off and reorient our vision to resolving conflict through multi-party, open, honest but compassionate dialogue that makes no victims and works to unblock the stuck energy.

We seek to turn the battle into a discussion, a discussion aimed upon restoring the harmony that was temporarily lost.


Honest but compassionate discussion
Our ideals of love needn’t translate into an overly sensitive, shall we say, fluffy environment where we are not honest with ourselves and each other. Ra’s is an advanced philosophy, according to our measure. It speaks of the possibilities of adepthood that necessarily require the most stringent honesty.

We thusly seek to tell our truths as clearly, as precisely, as poetically, as beautifully, as truthfully, as honestly as possible.

But we do not use honesty to justify being consciously negative to someone because such is our “honest” feeling. True honesty exercises deep consideration for the needs of others and the context of the situation. True honesty uses the listening, discerning ear to determine whether the other self is in a position to even hear one’s truth.

This level of honesty is a function of activating the blue-ray, or throat chakra. Its full working necessarily depends on the activated and open heart that immediately precedes the blue ray in the sequence of chakras. Indeed, the more activated and open the heart, the greater the energy for the shining honest truth of blue ray.

We therefore seek always to communicate our truths through the energy and framework of loving-kindness. It is amazing how the “truth” is transmuted and beautified, even a difficult truth, when it passes through unconditional love.

We also seek to emphasize the overlooked aspect of blue ray, which is the listening ear. Maybe it’s not always so much in what we say, but in how well we listen to one another.


Welcoming new members
As is probably true with the majority of online communities, the majority of the website’s readers don’t actively participate. Whether from their ranks or from people discovering the website for the first time, Bring4th gains new members each and every week.

This community seeks never to shun new members, but always to actively welcome them into the community.

Anyone who has been new to a group at some point in their lives—which should be 100% of everyone—knows the value of being welcomed into the group with a smile and warm embrace. This is especially critical for the spiritual seekers attracted to this information who tend to feel alienated or isolated from others, often painfully so.


The Focus of the Forums

What we’re here to discuss, share, and study
As Ra says, the self is the material for study. We are ultimately here, therefore, to share, express, and learn about the self.

That is a very broad statement, though. It could reasonably be invoked to describe every possible form of interaction on this planet, from enslavement to enlightened exchanges. The qualification which narrows that statement into a meaningful and coherent focus is this: We are here to learn about and share the self through the lens of the Confederation philosophy.

Ours is not a general spirituality forum. We want to offer the largest possible tent that we can offer, but for the structure to have any meaning, it must have a focus and parameters, exclusions and boundaries.

What are the exclusions and boundaries?


Not completely egalitarian
Every entity on this planet has a right to their own point of view. It is indeed the sacred, inalienable duty of each to create and form their own point of view, and can only be done by the self for the self. Bring4th can neither allow nor disallow one to have and form their own inherent perspective.

Everyone does not, however, have the right to express whatever point of view they may want in the community. The system has boundaries, boundaries that—as hopefully this document, the guidelines, and the moderator material makes clear—are as liberal, open, and reasonable as possible, but boundaries nevertheless.


To zoom out for a moment: Everyone is the Creator. Yes? Everyone is the self. Bring4th seeks the consciousness where this is obvious. But we keep in mind that, while fundamentally we are one with all beings, there are infinite expressions of that one in infinitely various relationship to one another:

   Quote:
   67.11 Ra: You do not have merely two opposite requests for service. You will find an infinite array of contradictory requests for information or lack of information from this source if you listen carefully to those whose voices you may hear. This is all one voice to which you resonate upon a certain frequency. This frequency determines your choice of service to the One Creator. As it happens this group’s vibratory patterns and those of Ra are compatible and enable us to speak through this instrument with your support. This is a function of free will.

   A portion, seemingly, of the Creator rejoices at your choice to question us regarding the evolution of spirit. A seemingly separate portion would wish for multitudinous answers to a great range of queries of a specific nature. Another seemingly separate group of your peoples would wish this correspondence through this instrument to cease, feeling it to be of a negative nature. Upon the many other planes of existence there are those whose every fiber rejoices at your service and those such as the entity of whom you have been speaking which wish only to terminate the life upon the third-density plane of this instrument.

   All are the Creator. There is one vast panoply of biases and distortions, colors and hues, in an unending pattern. In the case of those with whom you, as entities and as a group, are not in resonance, you wish them love, light, peace, joy, and bid them well. No more than this can you do for your portion of the Creator is as it is and your experience and offering of experience, to be valuable, needs be more and more a perfect representation of who you truly are.


We recognize the “vast panoply of biases and distortions, colors and hues,” appreciate it, and love it. We try to open our own frequencies to accommodate as wide a range of biases and distortions, colors and hues as possible, but at the end of the day, we are not completely egalitarian—we are not a community that feels every viewpoint has an equal place here.

Each viewpoint is “equal” in terms of it being right for he or she who generated the viewpoint—as no entity is more Creator than another—but each viewpoint is not “equal” in terms of, say, a harvestable degree of service-to-self perspective being equal on the Bring4th Forums with an opened green-ray perspective. One of the two is outside of, and dissonant with, our frequency.

As expressed above, we have a bias, and seek to pursue and enhance that bias. Not just for service to others, but for harmony, for growth, and for focus.


Not promoting, pursuing, or promulgating service-to-self philosophy or practices
No one on the forums, include the website founders, are pure angels made with 100% service-to-others organic milk. We are all a mix of light and shadow. We all have vibrations within us that might be classified as service-to-self.

While we seek to reduce the negative vibrations though self-knowledge and self-acceptance, and increase that within us which is vibrating service to others, we each may be susceptible to occasionally doing or saying something that has a flavor of service to self to it. That is inevitable.

However, the Bring4th Forums are not a place for energizing that polarity by promoting, pursuing, or promulgating service-to-self philosophy or practices. Where the boundary between the two is, is not easy to codify into a one-size-fits-all rule.

Generally speaking, philosophies and posting which exhibits elements of deception, manipulative thinking, or generate fear, or reject or discourage universal love, or encourage or promote control of self or others, are those containing characteristic hallmarks of service-to-self philosophy, and are considered to be not in alignment with the principles of spiritual evolution espoused by Confederation sources.

Of course, so much depends upon context. Some threads or posts may meet that criteria in some way without crossing the line. Some threads or posts may not fully meet that criteria but may still be crossing that line. Likely whoever is crossing that line is conscious of the act, and, though they will be met with love, their posting, and perhaps even their account, will not find a home at Bring4th.

This is not to make service to self a boogeyman in response to whose utterance we must create a cross of our index fingers to dispel the evil energy. We of the positive polarity are of the positive polarity precisely because of the existence and operation of those of the negative polarity. Thus to have a greater understanding or grasp of the negative path is to better understand our own path.

Consequently there is space to discuss the negative path and its interaction with the positive path. In fact, the topic of polarity is one of the most central for any student of the Law of One, and ought to be continually revisited for any seeking to polarize.


No sacred cow
Many respect and revere the information. Why? Because it resonates profoundly with them. It has moved them to tears, illuminated various if not all quarters of their life, informed their worldview, and, in many cases, had an absolutely transformative effect upon their incarnations, often enduringly so.

It is okay to love the material. To study it. To uphold it as a standard. To apply it. To scrutinize it. To question it. To test it. To give it a place of special significance and meaning in one’s heart. It is okay to wear that love upon ones sleeve. If there is any place on the internet to do so, this is the place!

But we don’t turn the material into a sacred cow, infallible and objectively true in every case. We look to it as a credible and awesome source of information, perhaps stemming from a broader point of view than our own, but we always recognize that it is we who have the final authority to determine what is true for us, to apply the material in unique ways to the synthesis of our own experience, and to determine how we will interpret the information.


No single interpretation trumps all others in all cases
The community recognizes that there are often a multiplicity of interpretations of the material.

Certain statements can be made about the Law of One which are objectively true (within its own context, of course). For instance, “There are eight densities, with the eighth being the gateway density.” “There are 106 sessions in total of the Ra Material.” “Ra is a sixth-density social memory complex.” But outside of statements about the material for which there is no possible dispute, much is open to subjective interpretation. The path of seeking is a path of subjective exploration and creation, and Ra could often only offer generalities, unable as they were to speak to the utter uniqueness of each and every creation.

It is very helpful to have intensive discussions that seek to hash out the meaning of words, phrases, and concepts—some interpretations are better than others in grasping the intention and nature of the information—but we refrain from becoming dogmatic in insisting that there is ever only one way to interpret this body of information.


Who Are These People?

People who are ethical
With exceedingly rare exception, each who is attracted to this material has a strong ethical framework of perception and action, the cornerstone of which is the desire and capacity to respect the free will of others through honest, loving-kindness, and the desire to be to others of service.


People who love this material
This is what you might call a no-brainer, but it’s sometimes helpful to articulate the obvious. Members of the larger Law of One community, whether or not participating at Bring4th, come from a great variety of demographics and temperaments. The desire to seek and serve the One Creator is that which, ultimately, unites us, but in the relative world of shape and form, it is this unique body of philosophy that has brought us together from a diverse range of starting points across the globe.


People who are service-oriented
Nearly everyone attracted to this philosophy—regardless of whether they consciously recognize the theory and practice of “polarity” as valuable—is what we could call a service-to-others oriented person.

Essays could be made to describe what that means. In short, positively oriented seekers simply want the highest and best fulfillment for others, preferably full of joy and free of suffering. They actively work to help the other self achieve their own stated ends, serving the other self as the request is made and only in proportion to the request. For the positively oriented entity, this means non-proselytizing, withdrawing if there is no request, and offering even the comforts of sleep if that is what the other-self desires. It means simple radiance from the open heart.


People who often feel they are wanderers
A discussion ripe with interesting speculation, we feel that those who are naturally attracted to this information are, in the main, wanderers. Though Bring4th does not issue any wanderer badge, nor are distinctions or classifications ever made to categorize or separate, nor is being a wanderer meaningful to any but the seeker itself, we note it here simply because there is a sub-culture on this planet who genuinely feel that their souls are from elsewhere, and that they are on this planet to serve others. This demographic also shares certain broad traits across their spectrum.

Knowledge of being a wanderer can be profoundly healing and transformative to he or she who has suffered in their attempts to adjust to and understand a world that may, in various ways, seem alien and even threatening.

Among those who consider themselves wanderers, along with those who have embarked upon the path of spiritual seeking in general, there often exists a great loneliness and profound sense of alienation. Significant, sometimes crushing pain can be a major debilitating theme of the wanderer and spiritual seeker.Bring4th seeks to meet the need by promoting community among this and associated demographics to help alleviate the isolation.

Again, however, at the end of the day, no tally is kept as to who believes or knows they are a wanderer or not, and no distinctions are ever recorded. Each who participates is obviously and undeniably human, with human lessons, human fears, and human hopes.

People who are spiritual seekers
Whatever the soul’s proximate origin in the universe, here or elsewhere, what most defines those who participate on Bring4th is their hunger for the truth. That hunger manifests in many, many ways, in varying intensities, but it is often visible in the way that each lights up in response to a gem of metaphysical thought, an insight into the deeper nature of experience, or another puzzle piece that reflects the truer/greater nature of the self and the universe within which the self dances.

Whether or not consciously realized or expressed, the Creator has begun to awaken within each who participates at Bring4th. The spiritual seeking is a manifestation of the Creator desiring to know itself, though us. It is that inner light which guides our journey to this particular nexus of energy known as Bring4th, and many others beyond.

Closing

We want to be together. We want to know each other. We want to merge with each other.

We need each other.

Above all, this particular website wishes to facilitate that connection—both for the benefit of the reading and participating individuals, and for the planet itself which receives the byproducts of our interactions on Bring4th, including:

Love
&
Light
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05-20-2019, 11:09 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
Relaxo you make me smile Wink
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05-20-2019, 11:38 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-20-2019, 11:38 PM by Glow.)
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
I admit I never read that in its entirety till now.

Its actually kind of beautiful. I feel the intention to love behind the words.
There is no mistaking the clear vision of the forums intended service from the way the entire thing is worded. Very cohesive, well thought through, lovingly so. Beautiful.
Thank you for posting them Smile
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05-21-2019, 04:17 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2019, 05:15 AM by Louisabell.)
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
Loving all the great arguments being made.

Just wanted to make the point that Jordan Peterson's issue about the gendered pronoun bill was not about "free speech" as commonly thought, but about "compelled speech".

He was stating that the government has no precedent to tell someone that they have to say something.

There are already plenty of limits on free speech, such as inciting violence and conspiring to commit crimes.

Jordan Peterson when asked directly if he would use trans-gendered pronouns, he said if asked in a reasonable way that he would. He's also expressed how unfortunate it is that trans people have been dragged into this debate on "compelled speech" as other trans advocacy groups have also expressed.

Just thought I would add that for some extra nuance.
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05-21-2019, 05:12 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2019, 06:13 AM by Louisabell.)
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
Also I just wanted to add that I really appreciate how challenging it must be to strike that balance in fostering a loving space while also allowing maximum amount of freewill in moderating the forums! I wanted to acknowledge the serious work that this must take.

Honestly, I know I couldn't do it. I think if I was handed that kind of power, that something similar to the below would eventually ensue...



Cool
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05-21-2019, 06:16 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2019, 06:28 AM by Relax.)
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-21-2019, 04:17 AM)Louisabell Wrote:  Loving all the great arguments being made.

Just wanted to make the point that Jordan Peterson's issue about the gendered pronoun bill was not about "free speech" as commonly thought, but about "compelled speech".

He was stating that the government has no precedent to tell someone that they have to say something.

There are already plenty of limits on free speech, such as inciting violence and conspiring to commit crimes.

Jordan Peterson when asked directly if he would use trans-gendered pronouns, he said if asked in a reasonable way that he would. He's also expressed how unfortunate it is that trans people have been dragged into this debate on "compelled speech" as other trans advocacy groups have also expressed.

Just thought I would add that for some extra nuance.


nuance is important for sure

Quote:"what does Peterson actually believe? He bills himself as “a classic British liberal” whose focus is the psychology of belief. Much of what he says is familiar: marginalised groups are infantilised by a culture of victimhood and offence-taking; political correctness threatens freedom of thought and speech; ideological orthodoxy undermines individual responsibility. You can read this stuff any day of the week and perhaps agree with some of it. However, Peterson goes further, into its most paranoid territory. His bete noire is what he calls “postmodern neo-Marxism” or “cultural Marxism”. In a nutshell: having failed to win the economic argument, Marxists decided to infiltrate the education system and undermine western values with “vicious, untenable and anti-human ideas”, such as identity politics, that will pave the road to totalitarianism.

Peterson studied political science and psychology, but he weaves several more disciplines – evolutionary biology, anthropology, sociology, history, literature, religious studies – into his grand theory. Rather than promoting blatant bigotry, like the far right, he claims that concepts fundamental to social-justice movements, such as the existence of patriarchy and other forms of structural oppression, are treacherous illusions, and that he can prove this with science. Hence: “The idea that women were oppressed throughout history is an appalling theory.” Islamophobia is “a word created by fascists and used by cowards to manipulate morons”. White privilege is “a Marxist lie”. Believing that gender identity is subjective is “as bad as claiming that the world is flat”.

Cathy Newman was wrong to call Peterson a “provocateur”, as if he were just Milo Yiannopoulos with a PhD. He is a true believer. Peterson is old enough to remember the political correctness wars of the early 90s, when conservatives such as Allan Bloom and Roger Kimball warned that campus speech codes and demands to diversify the canon were putting the US on the slippery slope to Maoism, and mainstream journalists found the counterintuitive twist – what if progressives are the real fascists? – too juicy to resist. Their alarmist rhetoric now seems ridiculous. Those campus battles did not lead to the Gulag. But Peterson’s theories hark back to that episode.
Peterson was also shaped by the cold war; he was obsessed as a young man with the power of rigid ideology to make ordinary people do terrible things. He collects Soviet realist paintings, in a know-your-enemy way, and named his first child Mikhaila, after Mikhail Gorbachev. In Professor Against Political Correctness, he says: “I know something about the way authoritarian and totalitarian states develop and I can’t help but think that I am seeing a fair bit of that right now.”

In many ways, Peterson is an old-fashioned conservative who mourns the decline of religious faith and the traditional family, but he uses of-the-moment tactics. His YouTube gospel resonates with young white men who feel alienated by the jargon of social-justice discourse and crave an empowering theory of the world in which they are not the designated oppressors. Many are intellectually curious. On Amazon, Peterson’s readers seek out his favourite thinkers: Dostoevsky, Nietzsche, Solzhenitsyn, Jung. His long, dense video lectures require commitment. He combines the roles of erudite professor, self-help guru and street-fighting scourge of the social-justice warrior: the missing link between Steven Pinker, Dale Carnegie and Gamergate. On Reddit, fans testify that Peterson changed, or even saved, their lives. His recent sold-out lectures in London had the atmosphere of revival meetings.

Such intense adoration can turn nasty. His more extreme supporters have abused, harassed and doxxed (maliciously published the personal information of) several of his critics. One person who has crossed swords with Peterson politely declined my request for an interview, having experienced floods of hatemail, including physical threats. Newman received so much abuse that Peterson asked his fans to “back off”, albeit while suggesting the scale had been exaggerated. “His fans are relentless,” says Southey. “They have contacted me, repeatedly, on just about every platform possible.”

   Peterson's audience includes Christian conservatives, atheist libertarians, centrist pundits and neo-Nazis

While Peterson does not endorse such attacks, his intellectual machismo does not exactly deter them. He calls ideas he disagrees with silly, ridiculous, absurd, insane. He describes debate as “combat” on the “battleground” of ideas and hints at physical violence, too. “If you’re talking to a man who wouldn’t fight with you under any circumstances whatsoever, then you’re talking to someone for whom you have absolutely no respect,” he told Paglia last year, adding that it is harder to deal with “crazy women” because he cannot hit them. His fans post videos with titles such as “Jordan Peterson DESTROY [sic] Transgender Professor” and “Those 7 Times Jordan Peterson Went Beast Mode”. In debate, as in life, Peterson believes in winners and losers.

“How does one effectively debate a man who seems obsessed with telling his adoring followers that there is a secret cabal of postmodern neo-Marxists hellbent on destroying western civilisation and that their campus LGBTQ group is part of it?” says Southey. “There’s never going to be a point where he says: ‘You know what? You’re right, I was talking out of my ass back there.’ It’s very much about him attempting to dominate the conversation.”

Peterson’s constellation of beliefs attracts a heterogeneous audience that includes Christian conservatives, atheist libertarians, centrist pundits and neo-Nazis. This staunch anti-authoritarian also has a striking habit of demonising the left while downplaying dangers from the right. "

~ https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/07/how-dangerous-is-jordan-b-peterson-the-rightwing-professor-who-hit-a-hornets-nest

I'm 5 months older than him... I know the 1990's political 'scene'. esp at academic institutions - very well.

I know exactly where he's coming from...  the pulpit of a traditionalist, straight, white, patriarchal conservative, privileged male dominant egregore.

I don't think anyone should force anyone to speak a certain way; so I do see where he was in reacting to that. I think he's softened his stance somewhat since he first reacted to it also.

It's basic politeness to respect people when they ask you call them by a certain pronoun, name, etc.

I don't think he's a "bad" person and I don't feel ill will towards him - to me - he's a dinosaur - incredibly "old fashioned' - but he's a conservative training ground pathway through to more extreme ideologies. [Edit: the 'it is harder to deal with “crazy women” because he cannot hit them' is disgusting though Sad ]

He embodies and has 'tapped into' the "backlash" against "social justice" by those most likely to lose power from social justice - by having to share it with everyone - the boys club.

I've been schooled by POC it was hard - but I listened and learnt - men need to do the same - listen to women. And stick up for women. We're being murdered at a sickening and disproportionate rate every day.

Day in day out.

https://www.whiteribbon.org.au/understand-domestic-violence/facts-violence-women/domestic-violence-statistics/

and yes- men experience violence also - but no where near the same and most usually from other men.

To any of his fans - please realise pointing this out isn't being misandrist - it's wishing for a shift from patriarchy to fraternity.
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05-21-2019, 07:25 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2019, 08:07 AM by Louisabell.)
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-21-2019, 06:16 AM)Relaxo Wrote:  I'm 5 months older than him... I know the 1990's political 'scene'. esp at academic institutions - very well.

I know exactly where he's coming from...  the pulpit of a traditionalist, straight, white, patriarchal conservative, privileged male dominant egregore.

I don't think anyone should force anyone to speak a certain way; so I do see where he was in reacting to that. I think he's softened his stance somewhat since he first reacted to it also.

It's basic politeness to respect people when they ask you call them by a certain pronoun, name, etc.

I don't think he's a "bad" person and I don't feel ill will towards him - to me - he's a dinosaur - incredibly "old fashioned' - but he's a conservative training ground pathway through to more extreme ideologies.

He embodies and has 'tapped into' the "backlash" against "social justice" by those most likely to lose power from social justice - by having to share it with everyone - the boys club.

I've been schooled by POC it was hard - but I listened and learnt - men need to do the same - listen to women. And stick up for women. We're being murdered at a sickening and disproportionate rate every day.

Day in day out.

https://www.whiteribbon.org.au/understand-domestic-violence/facts-violence-women/domestic-violence-statistics/

and yes- men experience violence also - but no where near the same and most usually from other men.

To any of his fans - please realise pointing this out isn't being misandrist - it's wishing for a shift from patriarchy to fraternity.

Yeah personally I think Jordan Peterson is over-rated.

My point was more that if even the person who championed against the gendered-pronoun bill could show some compassion with using someone's preferred pronoun, then it goes to show that it must be quite a moderate view point.

Some people have explored these complex and highly sensitive issues by making very nuanced arguments, touching on those "politically incorrect" topics with careful consideration. They build larger audiences because they present some well thought out/researched arguments. My issue is the way that these arguments get filtered down the line, fractured and then debased.

Then you have people without any medical or mental health training saying that people who want to identify with the opposite gender they were born with must be mentally ill and if anyone has a problem with that then they must be rejecting the "facts".

Similarly with the term SJW. I have read the book "SJW's Always Lie" by Vox Day. A popular book in these anti-progressive thought circles. Apparently, according to the book, SJW's follow the below three laws:
1. SJWs always lie
2. SJWs always double down
3. SJWs always project

So... who in this thread has acted like this? Who here is a SJW (as they define it)? Nearly everyone in this thread at one point or another has said "I can see where you're coming from"... Unless you want to believe that anyone who agrees with a leftist policy or has a progressive position on an issue is a SJW? But I mean at that point, it's equivalent to calling anyone who agrees with more conservative policies a fascist.

And yeah, I don't agree with people barricading doors at college campuses so that people can't attend lectures given by people like Milo Yiannopoulos or Ann Coulter, but it's totally hyperbolic to say that something similar is happening here on this forum. Also many times the police have been called to protect these speakers' free speech. Usually the problems arise when college administrators tell the police to stand down because they want to protect student's right to protest (BTW they don't have a right on private property).

So yeah, if the anti-progressive/conservative/libertarian side loses the ability to argue with nuance and balance and turns to histrionics, then they will just turn into the SJWs of the right (and this is already starting to happen in my opinion), except they won't even have the "niceness" of progressive ideals behind them.
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05-21-2019, 07:55 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2019, 07:56 AM by Infinite.)
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
I just don't understand how long this thread became. If the majority here seeks STO, makes no sense defends values of far right. Supress these values is legitim and helps to maintain the harmony of the forum. Freedom of speech is not a excuse to try oprimes some groups or fight against changes on society which aims to help these groups. Integration is about accept the differences and it's obvious that is the far right which don't want this.

Personally, I don't see any problem with these new laws on society. I also don't see problem in the seek of equality and equity in many subjects. That doesn't affect me.
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05-21-2019, 07:57 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2019, 08:05 AM by Relax.)
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
kick up a vocal racket, petition, pursue every possible avenue to ban - but barricading doors is not okay...

Australia preferences prevention of hate speech over free speech - whereas USA free speech is sacrosanct... we've had Milo banned from entering Australia... etc... also men who teach "negging" and other pickup artist things that actually degrade/abuse women (to get sex- dates)... Greg Braden was recently refused a visa - Muslim clerics who advocate jihad.. televangelists/scientologists etc

I have a little experience with far left people/ideologies in this 2 decades - for a while lived with 'Young Socialists' members in Melbourne in a share house and they were asshats... very 'holier than thou'.... mightily pissed me off as being utterly as impossible to reason with and as domineering in pushing their views as the far right - however statistically they're far less prepared to use violence... a certain number will- and it's the worst PR (and actually does enormous damage to the left) - but I would take my chances with far left over far right any day as I was beaten badly by neo nazi skinheads as a teenager and they are sheer hate - whereas imo far left who are aggro have become hateful in desperate response to far right sheer hatred.

doesn't make it acceptable at all... but is the reason.

also - if you have a massive neo nazi thug bearing down on you- you can't hand them a flower!
that being said - I object to the "punch a Nazi" slogan... it's terrible - because violence increases hatred... (as in Nazi giving a press interview is hit in face full on with fist)... nope - don't do that. object in every other non violent way possible - but violence only to be used in self defence imo

it happens on both sides because violence is predominately toxic masculine behaviour

I've never got on with zealots of any belief.
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05-21-2019, 09:13 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2019, 09:15 AM by Infinite.)
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-20-2019, 04:50 PM)anagogy Wrote:  I never said they can't be SJW. I just disagree with their view of "justice". I think it is warped and inadvertently STS even though it thinks otherwise.

Their view of justice is their free will, right? If you try limit their actions you are attempting against free will.

(05-20-2019, 04:50 PM)anagogy Wrote:  All Ra said is that in order for there to be law, freedom must be restricted. They didn't say laws or rules were necessary.

Ok. I reread. Being fair you are right.

(05-20-2019, 04:50 PM)anagogy Wrote:  Simply don't engage with it, don't respond to it. Very few people are interested in that stuff. So the fear of it is unwarranted. Just ignore it.

That's one of the most ridiculous arguments of the right in my humble opinion. "If we ignore a problem, it will disappear". We can't ignore a problem, it's necessary a contrary and positive action to balance the situation. Racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. will not disappear if we ignore them. It's necessary conscientization and laws to balance that.

(05-20-2019, 04:50 PM)anagogy Wrote:  media tries to instill fear in peoples heads that racists and sexists and nazis are around every corner, nook, and cranny of the world. The truth is they simply aren't. It is a very small minority.

I really don't know the media of your country. But is notorious the ascension of far right today. But I can judge which I don't watch.

Here on my country, the "bolsominions" (fanatics by Bolsonaro, the far right elected president ) are attacking the media calling it of communist, leftist, etc. It's natural the far right attack the media because they attack everyone not agree with them.

(05-20-2019, 04:50 PM)anagogy Wrote:  Just research it. SJW culture is doing nothing but trying to suppress free speech:

As I said above, I don't know the USA media. But, seems to me FOX is a conservative media vehicle. So, their opinions can be contaminated by this vision.

(05-20-2019, 04:50 PM)anagogy Wrote:  Honestly, I think the media is by FAR the most DIVISIVE and STS force in the world today.

I don't agree. It's capitalism and the financial system. But the media has their role on that.

(05-20-2019, 04:50 PM)anagogy Wrote:  It is the TOOL of the elite STS in our world.

The main problem I see on media is the emphasis of establishment and the conditioned reality in its many aspects.

(05-20-2019, 04:50 PM)anagogy Wrote:  but when you actually research the effects of many of their policies, the effect is extremely negatively polarized.

If you are talking about communist experiences, even if we consider that capitalism already killed much more people and that the book "The Black Book of Communism" is pseudoscientific, you are talking about far left experiences. The vast majority of the world politicies currently and on the history is of right wing. So, makes no sense what you said.

(05-20-2019, 04:50 PM)anagogy Wrote:  I have, and it rears it head on the both the left and right of the political divide.

Don't. They values is the same of right: belief in hierarchies, meritocracy, law of jungle, etc.

Observation: You said you are libertarian. So, looks like you believe on anarcho-capitalism. Man, that's a way more utopic than communism. The truly representation of a STS planet. I just don't understand how can you give attention to that bullshit. I'm sorry by the honesty.
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05-21-2019, 11:54 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2019, 11:55 AM by rva_jeremy. Edit Reason: emjoi fail )
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
We are complex, confused entities. When we talk about one thing, we often do so to actually talk about something else, using one subject as a lens upon a deeper, perhaps less tractable conversation. Sometimes on this board dedicated to spiritual principles and growth, we talk about politics in order to illustrate spiritual dynamics. Other times, we talk about spirituality in order to illustrate political dynamics.

I don't think we can ever banish the mundane from this forum, nor would I seek to. I of all people understand that sometimes one needs to work things out in public before one can see one's reflection and finally zip up his fly. But I'd suggest that, when one finds oneself invoking spirituality to discuss politics, rather than using politics as a device to discuss spirituality, it's a wake up call that we've derailed what is important here.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing with one another, but we aren't here to agree on politics or weigh in on each others' political opinions. Perhaps it's a failure of my imagination -- it almost certainly is -- but I don't think there can be a true political debate on here that adheres to either the spirit or the letter of the purpose for which Bring4th was set up. 

As somebody who cherishes political debate deeply, it pains me to see such discourse dribble out here when you can go just about anywhere else on the internet and find it. Meanwhile, where is the place the next seeker starting to awaken will find comfort, solace, guidance, a helping hand and a cheerful word to face another day of heavy illusion?

Just my two cents. L/L

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
Q'uo 3/19/06
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05-21-2019, 12:04 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
Interesting thread... There are some important things that can be said about the thread's actual topic, and also what transpired inside the topic:

First, i would recommend everyone caution in their dealings within this forum, and also in real life, with other people - be it friends, family, colleagues or strangers.

There has been a recent, very strong magnetic storm, and people at large seem to get affected by those, even if the effect does not seem to be the same every time a geomagnetic storm happens. The last major storm, which happened last week, reached G4 level. That's the 2nd highest level, and we used to have a lot of G4s and G3, along with frequent G5s before and after 2011. The impact of such geogmagnetic storms on people is not largely studied, leave aside the lacking awareness about them in spiritual communities.

You can watch the space weather from below, bottom of the first chart shows geomagnetic storm activity.

https://watchers.news/space-weather-station/

How this relates to this thread is this: It seems the thread got highly charged, with people exhibiting strong reactions to each other and experiencing a lot of conflict.

This forum was not the only place in which this happened during the past week - i noticed similar behavior patterns in different online communities, and even in real life.

So, it seems that this last geomagnetic storm had had an effect in that direction on people at large - so for the next week or so, caution is advised in interacting with people anywhere, to avoid extremely charged situations which may potentially turn hurtful among the people...

..............

That said, i would like to return to the original topic of the thread, the 'eternal' 'love vs wisdom' debacle:

1 - In the most simple spiritual terms, there is no such thing.

In no density you cannot have love and not have wisdom, and have wisdom and not have love:

First one would lead to an entity which is accepting of everything there is and everything that happens but also an entity totally unaware about itself and the external existence.

The latter would lead to an entity which is totally aware of itself and the external existence, but totally estranged from everything, potentially even itself, and not seeing any worth in doing anything with anyone or anything, even including itself.

So such entities and such paths, do not exist. Even at the end of 5th positive or negative densities, entities do not reach 100% polarity.

So you cant have one without the other.

2 - As it pertains to Ra material, on the positive path one needs to have one, and then the other

Green is the energy of what is called love by our modern civilization, and blue is the energy of what is called wisdom in Ra material. Each pertain to 4th and 5th chakras accordingly.

And these repeat for each density in every sub-density octaves:

There is a 4th level of 3rd density, and a 5th level of 3rd density. So the 3rd density entity must first open its 4th chakra, ie 4th of 3rd, and then must open its 5th chakra of 3rd, to get to 3rd density wisdom.

The only way for the 3rd density entity to attain 4th density harvest is to open each and every chakra of 3rd density:

3rd of 3d, 4th of 3d, 5th of 3d, 6th of 3d and 7th of 3d.

This can either be done by the entity itself while incarnate, or it can be done by harvesters during harvest. The requirement is that the entity must be mature enough spiritually to be able to open all these chakras.

So there is no skipping 5th of 3rd, what is called wisdom, and then going to harvest.

This pertains to any/every entity which is incarnate or working inside this planetary sphere's 3rd density, including wanderers.

For wanderers of course there are more complex questions regarding their actual spiritual density and its vibratory level, but that's a way too huge topic.

However it must be noted that for such entities, and even for potential 3d graduates, it is important to have sufficient level of wisdom in order to be able to understand what kind of dynamics are going on in its relationship with any given entity or group, so that it can accept the other entity/group and the relationship regardless of its implications.

Otherwise there can be no exercise and development of love. Simply; you cannot 'accept as it is' what you dont even know.

The entity should be able to say "This person is harming/ignoring/neglecting me in this, that and in some other ways, but despite that i accept him or her as s/he is.'

The keyword here, as you can see, is 'despite'. If one has no understanding of what's going on, there is no 'despite'. There is 'I dont understand but i accept you', which is not accepting at all.

Some naturally may get hung up on the concept that is '3rd is not the density of understanding'.

That is correct, but density-wise: The general topic of 3d is not understanding at large. The general topic of 3d is social interactions and relations, and the choice the entity makes in respect to those.

The density of understanding is, ironically, the 4th: Ra explains 4th as the density in which entities look back on 3d and its interactions, and understand the entire density, what transpired, empathize, and mature through understanding to the density of wisdom, the density which starts learning the nature of existence.

Inside the 3d however, the rules of existence do not change and the sub octave of that density must repeat the same pattern which the entire octave of this creation has:

The entity must pass through all sub-densities of 3rd, from 1st to 7th, including 5th.

So a 3d entity must understand its density, in order to be able to move higher in that density. You cannot skip any sub-density, be your path positive or negative. Such a person would fail the harvest and there are no exceptions.

.......

Then there is the complication that this planet is now a 3-4d transitional planet, having green vibrations since 1930s, and then in this post-harvest period, starting to form 4d energies and its nascent 4d society.

So, this creates a very chaotic situation:

As new energies start to form, they are more in time/space as Ra mentions since clear separation in between the 4d physical space and 3d physical space did not happen yet, and therefore at any point a place may rise to 4d vibrations and then fall to 3d vibrations. Some may stay consistently in 4d vibrations, some may stay consistently in 3d vibrations.

This constitutes complex problems... At any point you may be in a 3d vibration zone in time/space, in another 4th. You dont even need to physically move - as the conditions in time/space change, the vibration of your location may change.

The major problem with that you gotta do 3d stuff when you are in 3d vibration and 4d stuff when you are in 4d vibration. You can do otherwise, but it would create friction and conflict with the energy around you, leading to actual problems.

When you adopt a 4d nature in an 3d environment, you can get exhausted and tired rapidly, and when you adopt a 3d nature in a 4d environment, you would have unused, unchanneled energy creating weight, and potentially heat...

........

However, beyond these complicated actual spiritual phenomena the main controversy about 'love vs wisdom' stems from a much more simple cultural phenomenon:

3 - As it pertains to modern - rather angloamerican - cultural and spiritual discourse, there is a tendency to confuse wisdom with intelligence and separate this from what is perceived as love, which is enforced by obscurantism that plagues cultures which have large influence from semitic religions

In such cultures, intelligence is perceived as 'cold', 'selfish', 'distant', 'emotionless' and being emotional is put as its opposite. This gets amplified by the obscurantist tendencies in semitic religions, which is on the rise as 'anti-intellectualism' in more right wing segments in, for example, US.

"Those people 'dont believe', they act 'rationally', according to their mind, and they reject the belief, and the one true god, which tells and gives us all we need. They are evil people"

.....

Spiritual discourse in anglosphere follows this trend, by equating intelligence with wisdom, and then equating being emotional with love.

And then ends up in this conundrum.

Not only intelligence does not directly pertain to wisdom, and emotion does not necessarily pertain to love, but also such a duality and such a rare phenomenon is not seen in other cultures. You can be intelligent and emotional in China, for example. And that doesnt even catch attention. Nor being wise and loving, in the actual sense.

But in Anglosphere, actually, mainly in US, there are such dysfunctional and non-applicable dualities. Which mainly stem from semitic religious influence as mentioned earlier, and its damning obscurantism.

Of course, we must also understand that this situation is greatly amplified by practical necessities:

Being aware and understanding yourself, your social circle, your relations and eventually your society poses great discomfort.

- Take someone who realizes that s/he is in an abusive relationship, for example. Accepting that realization and taking action may carry great social, psychological and even financial cost. Hence its much better to try to deny/ignore the realization.

- Or take someone who lives in a conservative religious social circle which claims to follow the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, say, in an US conservative region. Who realizes that despite such claims, his social circle does not actually accept anyone from outside their own flock like Jesus did, leave aside helping them or sharing their belongings, like Jesus also did. And actually, a great percentage of them are very materialist, in contrast to the totally anti-materialist nature of Jesus.

In such a situation, accepting this realization and perceiving the actual reality would give great discomfort to the person. Additionally, if s/he doesnt agree with that, put him or her in a position of potential conflict with the social circle s/he lives in. Much better to repress the understanding and slide into denialism, obscurantism, and avoid the repercussions.

- Another person realizes that despite having believed that his/her society is a free, progressive and democratic one, things are really not like they seem: Regardless of whom s/he votes for, always there is a person from the rich establishment getting elected and policies stay the same. S/he can speak, but it does not have any effect on anything. Maybe that is the reason why s/he is free to speak... The society is 'progressive', but it seems to be only for a certain group of people from the 'right' social, racial and economic segment... And it seems like all the 'work hard and you will succeed / get recognized / get rich' conditioning s/he received seems to be only for enabling and justifying a system of inequality that makes him/her work hard and gives the benefits to a very small number of people who control the system... Much better to repress the realization and keep working hard for that promotion and to pay the mortgage... And not think about politics at all...

.....

So as you can see, there is a great tendency towards anti-intellectualism, and as a consequence, 'wisdom' in those parts of the world, and parts that are affected by them...

But the reality of the matter is that, you are here today, reading these letters, in a forum about Ra material, a spiritual text which is pretty intellectual compared to every other spiritual text out there.

There is Bartholomew, which is love-love, that talks only about love and nothing else, but you are not in a forum that is dedicated to it.

There is Silver Birch, which is spiritual-love, that talks about higher spiritual principles and also love, but you are not in a forum dedicated to it either...

You could have easily found the non-understanding, comfortable and non-controversial environment you thought that was necessary in any such spiritual material and any community dedicated to it.

But you are here, reading and talking about Ra material instead.

That's because you were attracted to this material and the particular understanding it brings.

.......

Hence, you must pursue your own path which led you here.

You must take what you must take from this material. You must take what you must take from others who follow this material in accordance with their own spiritual journey.

Their paths do not necessarily coincide with yours. They may cross, they may touch, and separate.

Therefore, you must let others follow their own path, and even help them on it when your path crosses or touches theirs, and let them do the same.
can reach me@ unity100-gmail
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05-21-2019, 12:17 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
Awesome post Unity100.

And thanks for the info on the magnetic storm. I definitely (in retrospect) felt it. I thought it was just the full moon.
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05-21-2019, 01:02 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
In how speedforce got banned from the forum, I would say that the forum made a choice toward wisdom (reason based control) rather than love (acceptance).

The thread is as such rendered meaningless.

All is Love. All is Light. Rejoice citizens of Eternity!
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05-21-2019, 01:20 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-21-2019, 07:57 AM)Relaxo Wrote:  Greg Braden was recently refused a visa

Why was he refused a visa? Do you know?
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05-21-2019, 01:33 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-21-2019, 01:02 PM)Minyatur Wrote:  In how speedforce got banned from the forum, I would say that the forum made a choice toward wisdom (reason based control) rather than love (acceptance).

The thread is as such rendered meaningless.

The reasons for why speedforce got banned have not been public. There was much more going on behind the scenes with PMs to the moderators that showed he had no desire to work with us in seeking a resolution. It's sort of not fair to make a public call out when you don't have all of the information.

If having a set of guidelines at all is "reason based control" exclusive of "love", then I guess we are guilty hypocrites. We're still going to go forward trying our best in the future.
There is no magic greater than honest distortion toward love.
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05-21-2019, 03:09 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-21-2019, 01:33 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:  
(05-21-2019, 01:02 PM)Minyatur Wrote:  In how speedforce got banned from the forum, I would say that the forum made a choice toward wisdom (reason based control) rather than love (acceptance).

The thread is as such rendered meaningless.

The reasons for why speedforce got banned have not been public. There was much more going on behind the scenes with PMs to the moderators that showed he had no desire to work with us in seeking a resolution. It's sort of not fair to make a public call out when you don't have all of the information.

If having a set of guidelines at all is "reason based control" exclusive of "love", then I guess we are guilty hypocrites. We're still going to go forward trying our best in the future.

You can't be guilty of wisdom, it is not some kind of sin.

I just thought it played as part of the thread and the on-going discussion. That the forum is not above balancing/informing love with wisdom/reason.

All is Love. All is Light. Rejoice citizens of Eternity!
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05-21-2019, 03:16 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2019, 06:42 PM by ada.)
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
I also don't believe in banning, it is very saddening.

Edit: opinion.
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05-21-2019, 03:19 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2019, 03:21 PM by Minyatur.)
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-21-2019, 03:16 PM)blossom Wrote:  I also don't believe in banning, it is very saddening.

But you gotta admit people were just poking others with sticks.

I hope they may rejoice us again.

I think he was met with a lot of denial for being entitled to his view and opinion and somewhat offered the same energy back. I'm not even sure how it started but he did say so himself multiple times.

There are certain opinions, that if you share them here, you are going to be poked hard at.

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05-21-2019, 03:20 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2019, 06:32 PM by ada.)
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
I agree. Which is why it's painful.

Edit: all personal opinion.
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05-21-2019, 04:39 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2019, 05:01 PM by Glow.)
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-21-2019, 11:54 AM)rva_jeremy Wrote:  We are complex, confused entities. When we talk about one thing, we often do so to actually talk about something else, using one subject as a lens upon a deeper, perhaps less tractable conversation. Sometimes on this board dedicated to spiritual principles and growth, we talk about politics in order to illustrate spiritual dynamics. Other times, we talk about spirituality in order to illustrate political dynamics.

I don't think we can ever banish the mundane from this forum, nor would I seek to. I of all people understand that sometimes one needs to work things out in public before one can see one's reflection and finally zip up his fly. But I'd suggest that, when one finds oneself invoking spirituality to discuss politics, rather than using politics as a device to discuss spirituality, it's a wake up call that we've derailed what is important here.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing with one another, but we aren't here to agree on politics or weigh in on each others' political opinions. Perhaps it's a failure of my imagination -- it almost certainly is -- but I don't think there can be a true political debate on here that adheres to either the spirit or the letter of the purpose for which Bring4th was set up. 

As somebody who cherishes political debate deeply, it pains me to see such discourse dribble out here when you can go just about anywhere else on the internet and find it. Meanwhile, where is the place the next seeker starting to awaken will find comfort, solace, guidance, a helping hand and a cheerful word to face another day of heavy illusion?

Just my two cents. L/L

I was thinking something similar today. Many of us work out our catylist in real life but come here for the place it is and to delve into spiritual discussions so we can process or get aid seeing the catalyst for what it is and handle the catylist we face next in real life.

It seems some do not socialize/interact very much in person so this is as “real life” as it gets for them facing/working out catalyst.

I’m sure however other forums are better suited to the lashing out that may occur vs just instigating conflict here in those cases and perhaps again the people could come here for the focus bring4th was intended to offer.
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05-21-2019, 06:19 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
(05-21-2019, 11:54 AM)rva_jeremy Wrote:  We are complex, confused entities. When we talk about one thing, we often do so to actually talk about something else, using one subject as a lens upon a deeper, perhaps less tractable conversation. Sometimes on this board dedicated to spiritual principles and growth, we talk about politics in order to illustrate spiritual dynamics. Other times, we talk about spirituality in order to illustrate political dynamics.

I don't think we can ever banish the mundane from this forum, nor would I seek to. I of all people understand that sometimes one needs to work things out in public before one can see one's reflection and finally zip up his fly. But I'd suggest that, when one finds oneself invoking spirituality to discuss politics, rather than using politics as a device to discuss spirituality, it's a wake up call that we've derailed what is important here.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing with one another, but we aren't here to agree on politics or weigh in on each others' political opinions. Perhaps it's a failure of my imagination -- it almost certainly is -- but I don't think there can be a true political debate on here that adheres to either the spirit or the letter of the purpose for which Bring4th was set up. 

As somebody who cherishes political debate deeply, it pains me to see such discourse dribble out here when you can go just about anywhere else on the internet and find it. Meanwhile, where is the place the next seeker starting to awaken will find comfort, solace, guidance, a helping hand and a cheerful word to face another day of heavy illusion?

Just my two cents. L/L

To explore what Jeremy has said a little further:

I don't think you can separate political debate (or any subject matter) from spiritual growth. And I think, for some, and sometimes for everyone, there is no conscious awareness of any connection between the mundane and the spitiual, so things surface as a result of a mundane conversation. This way one gets to the connection and the possibility of growth through awareness.



I would like to add something I have mentioned before here. And that is the concept of politeness, which has gone out of popularity societally. Children were taught manners and how to be polite long ago, during the Victorian age for example.

Politeness can mitigate extreme conflict. Politeness doesn't have to repress. Practicing it can give one a moment to pause, and not succumb to impulsivity, which often causes regrets. Impulsivity can cause us to spew without rational thought or check.

So, instead of feeling as though one has to fit into an STO box of cheerful and loving discourse when one is triggered, it might help to just think of being polite. Just that.
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05-21-2019, 07:04 PM,
RE: Why the hate for wisdom?
Good point.
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