(04-22-2020, 10:09 AM)keith Wrote: In my view, if we "erase" all densities, space/time and time/space continue to exist albeit in a different form but there is still space and time.
In your view, there will be much more numbers of space and time (certainly more than 6/6). And if we "erase" all densities in your view, there will be no space, no time, no space/time and time/space because they are a part of densities.
Your second statement is closer to what I believe. Because space / time and time / space is what densities are, shall we say, organized. Besides the fact that Ra said that sub-density is equal to plane. Now, if Ra says that within each density there are infinite divisions, what would those divisions be for you?
(04-22-2020, 10:09 AM)keith Wrote: I believe this is another area where our views differ. In my view, all densities share the same space and time and we can see 4d/5d/6d but in reality we cannot only because they have chosen not to (Ra 13.20).
Quote:13.20 Questioner: Is there any physical difference between first and second density? For instance, if I could see a second-density planet and a first-density planet side by side, in my present condition, could I see both of them? Would they be both visible?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. All of the octave of your densities would be clearly visible were not the fourth through the seventh freely choosing not to be visible.
What Ra meant was that entities other than 3D could "get thicker" and show themselves to us:
Quote:The fourth density is, by choice, not visible to third density. It is possible for fourth density to be visible. However, it is not the choice of the fourth-density entity to be visible due to the necessity for concentration upon a rather difficult vibrational complex which is the third density you experience.(12.17)
That is, the "native" fourth density vibration is invisible to us, as it is of a higher frequency of vibration. It is the same with our inner planes.
Let me share something. In many traditions (and in the LOO itself) it is said that the microcosm is a reflection of the macrocosm. So it seems to me that the lower 3 chakras are somewhat related. In man they form the basis of what we call mundane. Thus, similarly, the first 3 densities are of the "material" or "mundane" type. The fourth density, like the heart chakra, marks the transition from the mundane to what I call "semi-spiritual" (since the upper triad begins at the throat chakra). That is exactly the nature of the astral plane, there are still forms, but in a more subtle state than in the physical. The mental plane is already a spiritual plane itself. This is one of the reasons that I believe that these first 3 densities exist in the same environment, separate from the others.
There are answers in which Ra implies that they live at other frequencies of vibration:
Quote:From the sixth dimension, we are capable of manipulating, by thought, the intelligent infinity present in each particle of light or distorted light so that we were able to clothe ourselves in a replica visible in the third densityof our mind/body/spirit complexes in the sixth density.(6.7)
This answer suggests that the densities of Venus above the third are other ranges of vibration:
Quote:The third-density conditions are not hospitable to the life-forms of your peoples. The fifth and sixth dimensions of that planetary sphere are quite conducive to growing/learning/teaching.(6.6)
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Speaking of the fourth density itself, in my varied studies I came to the conclusion that the fourth density is similar to what we call the astral plane. Remember that Ra said that the green ray's body is the astral body. So, 4D's environment has to be compatible with this body. Another detail is Ra's description that the fourth density is an environment where thought is used instead of mechanics (another characteristic of the astral plane):
Quote:As fourth density occurs there is a new planet and new physical vehicle system gradually expressing itself and the parameters of bellicose actions become those of thought rather than manifested weapons.(66.31)
Quote:In some cases there is a kind of battle. This is a battle of wills and the weapons consist of the light that can be formed by each contender.(87.16)
A curiosity is this intersting passage of "Autobiography of an Iogue" when the deceased master of Yogananda appears to him in which seems a fourth density body. He talks about an "astral planet" and a new body:
Source: http://yogananda.com.au/aoy/beyond_death_1.html
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(04-22-2020, 10:09 AM)keith Wrote: In your view, as each density has their sub sub densities of space and time, beings in different densities lives in different space/time and thus the issue of how different densities can see each other arise. But I believe there are the possible ways to deal with this issue but personally i have not thought of any.
This is easily understood through the concept of true color. The true color green is not the same as the true color yellow. It's an octave up. So, both cannot have the same sub-octaves, because the color green is of a higher nature. In addition, Ra said that up to sixth density there is some kind of space / time and time / space:
Quote:The space/time and time/space distinctions, as you understand them, do not hold sway except in third density. However, fourth, fifth, and to some extent, sixth, work within some system of polarized space/time and time/space.(57.33)
(04-22-2020, 10:09 AM)keith Wrote: I am fine with defining dimension as a sub-density and calling the astral plane the 4th dimension. However, by redefining the meaning of dimension, it is no longer the same as that of the "scientific" dimension. Thus I think contradictions arise when I see what is an attempt to combine both definitions.
I would think there will be no contradictions if the number of space and time is left ambiguous and thus a mystery and I am fine with this approach as well.
Well, it could be that Leadbeater and others are wrong in that definition. But you will find most esoteric and spiritualist sources classifying the astral plane as the fourth dimension. And I think it would be scientific to call time the fourth dimension, when the term dimension refers more to space / locality.
(04-22-2020, 10:09 AM)keith Wrote: As I mentioned to claim to see the tesseract in the astral plane suggests that there are 4 dimensions of space. However, to me, this does not imply that the astral plane is the fourth dimensional in the scientific sense, nor is this "4 dimensions" identical to the 4 dimensions of your view for our definitions of dimension is different.
I suggest forgetting the term "scientific". Our physics is still archaic in not accepting multidimensionality due to not understanding the importance of vibration. So, it is not entirely reliable.
(04-22-2020, 10:09 AM)keith Wrote: I believe there are other explanations that could allow one to "see" the interior of a cube - one way by invoking the concept of the Law of One, another way is that it can be done in time/space (i.e. my view of time/space being 3 space and 3 time, but which also includes the astral and inner planes).
I did not understand this part.
(04-22-2020, 10:09 AM)keith Wrote: It would seem his definition of dimension is more similar to mine than yours. I'm sorry to say I do not find the chapter convincing either scientifically or spiritually. He could have called the astral plane the fifth dimension and let time be the fourth dimension and it would achieve the same purpose that he wanted, the ordering is not important.
The importance lies precisely in the fact that in the astral plane a fourth coordinate is added.