(04-22-2020, 10:48 PM)Infinite Wrote: Your second statement is closer to what I believe. Because space / time and time / space is what densities are, shall we say, organized. Besides the fact that Ra said that sub-density is equal to plane. Now, if Ra says that within each density there are infinite divisions, what would those divisions be for you?To me, the infinite divisions in space/time are different from the infinite divisions in time/space. Beyond this, I could only speculate that the divisions in space/time correspond to the different kinds of people we meet in the world (From the more "survival oriented" to the more "angelic" people). And the divisions in time/space correspond to the different inner planes (Based on what was mentioned in the LOO books: astral, devachanic, etc).
(04-22-2020, 10:48 PM)Infinite Wrote: What Ra meant was that entities other than 3D could "get thicker" and show themselves to us:
Quote:The fourth density is, by choice, not visible to third density. It is possible for fourth density to be visible. However, it is not the choice of the fourth-density entity to be visible due to the necessity for concentration upon a rather difficult vibrational complex which is the third density you experience.(12.17)
That is, the "native" fourth density vibration is invisible to us, as it is of a higher frequency of vibration. It is the same with our inner planes.
I do agree that higher densities have a higher vibration. And yes I agree with you now that they will not be directly visible because of their higher vibration. What I was trying to point out previously was that because we are able to see them when they allow it, that this indicates we share the same space as them. Though this being a mechanical point, I think it is perhaps not as useful.
(04-22-2020, 10:48 PM)Infinite Wrote: Let me share something. In many traditions (and in the LOO itself) it is said that the microcosm is a reflection of the macrocosm. So it seems to me that the lower 3 chakras are somewhat related. In man they form the basis of what we call mundane. Thus, similarly, the first 3 densities are of the "material" or "mundane" type. The fourth density, like the heart chakra, marks the transition from the mundane to what I call "semi-spiritual" (since the upper triad begins at the throat chakra). That is exactly the nature of the astral plane, there are still forms, but in a more subtle state than in the physical. The mental plane is already a spiritual plane itself. This is one of the reasons that I believe that these first 3 densities exist in the same environment, separate from the others.
Yes I have some knowledge of the traditional and spiritual beliefs that which you shared and agree that it is a helpful perspective and that it supports your view. Personally, I do not see such a distinction between the densities other than higher densities are of a higher vibration and find they are all equally sacred to the Creator. As such to me, for my view, the underlying structure of all densities in this octave are the same.
(04-22-2020, 10:48 PM)Infinite Wrote: Speaking of the fourth density itself, in my varied studies I came to the conclusion that the fourth density is similar to what we call the astral plane. Remember that Ra said that the green ray's body is the astral body. So, 4D's environment has to be compatible with this body. Another detail is Ra's description that the fourth density is an environment where thought is used instead of mechanics (another characteristic of the astral plane):
Are you saying that the astral plane is the fourth density?
(04-22-2020, 10:48 PM)Infinite Wrote:I was looking at it through a mechanical point of view, but I find it hard to illustrate my point. But after reading what you just wrote, I believe that perhaps my way of questioning was wrong.(04-22-2020, 10:09 AM)keith Wrote: In your view, as each density has their sub sub densities of space and time, beings in different densities lives in different space/time and thus the issue of how different densities can see each other arise. But I believe there are the possible ways to deal with this issue but personally i have not thought of any.
This is easily understood through the concept of true color. The true color green is not the same as the true color yellow. It's an octave up. So, both cannot have the same sub-octaves, because the color green is of a higher nature. In addition, Ra said that up to sixth density there is some kind of space / time and time / space:
Quote:The space/time and time/space distinctions, as you understand them, do not hold sway except in third density. However, fourth, fifth, and to some extent, sixth, work within some system of polarized space/time and time/space.
(57.33)
Regarding 57.33, my speculation is that in your view there is no space and time in 7th density, but in my view 7th density and its beings exist in all space and all time in all densites in the current octave. Both I believe are valid interpretations.
(04-22-2020, 10:48 PM)Infinite Wrote: Well, it could be that Leadbeater and others are wrong in that definition. But you will find most esoteric and spiritualist sources classifying the astral plane as the fourth dimension. And I think it would be scientific to call time the fourth dimension, when the term dimension refers more to space / locality.I would say that it is still a convenient and useful way to discuss their experiences given that science is unable to explain it. But unless there is a conclusive scientific proof, I treat it as a term for the purpose of conveying experiences.
I believe the scientific dimension does not refer to space explicitly but that is the common association. I think wiki says it better: "A temporal dimension is a dimension of time. Time is often referred to as the "fourth dimension" for this reason, but that is not to imply that it is a spatial dimension.".
(04-22-2020, 10:48 PM)Infinite Wrote: I suggest forgetting the term "scientific". Our physics is still archaic in not accepting multidimensionality due to not understanding the importance of vibration. So, it is not entirely reliable.It is not entirely correct, but it is also responsible for many of our existing technology, and thus living here on Earth, I feel I cannot dismiss it. That is my personal view, it is not in total conflict with my view and so I did not disregard it. But I agree that we should stop discussing about the scientific aspect.
(04-22-2020, 10:48 PM)Infinite Wrote:(04-22-2020, 10:09 AM)keith Wrote: I believe there are other explanations that could allow one to "see" the interior of a cube - one way by invoking the concept of the Law of One, another way is that it can be done in time/space (i.e. my view of time/space being 3 space and 3 time, but which also includes the astral and inner planes).I did not understand this part.
(04-22-2020, 10:09 AM)keith Wrote: It would seem his definition of dimension is more similar to mine than yours. I'm sorry to say I do not find the chapter convincing either scientifically or spiritually. He could have called the astral plane the fifth dimension and let time be the fourth dimension and it would achieve the same purpose that he wanted, the ordering is not important.The importance lies precisely in the fact that in the astral plane a fourth coordinate is added.
First possible explanation:
This is based on extrapolation from my own experience rather than what Ra or Q'uo said. There was a time when I was lying on the bed that I felt that I could sense the sky outside through the roof and it made my felt quite naked and uncomfortable. What this suggest to me was that it may be possible that a properly trained entity would be able to have conscious awareness of the unity of reality and through this connection be able to observe without obstruction. We can't see the inside of a box because light does not reach the inside, but with awareness and connection with all particles within the box, we can "see" the interior.
Second possible explanation:
In my view, my interpretation of time/space is that time is the active portion and space is "fluid". An analogy is a video player but which has 3 time sliders to see all possible past/future. Because space is "fluid", one will be able to seemingly "pass" through objects and see the inside. I think an analogy is that of the no-clip mode in 3D games or 3D programs, where you can fly through walls and see the interiors.
The description is part intuition and part interpretation from the LOO material.
I think the description of the result is the same as yours, except that there are still only 3 spatial dimensions in mine.