Guardians from the Octave above
06-20-2011, 07:37 PM,
#31
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
True dat monkey.
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06-20-2011, 08:07 PM,
#32
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-20-2011, 07:26 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:  Everything is One now. It's not One in the future. It's always One.

I'm sure unity knows this, but I think what he's saying is the illusion of separation doesn't go away by simply saying "everything is one" to every topic of learning. There are more intricacies to be discussed before we will truly break the illusion and everything will be one without any illusion of separation.
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06-20-2011, 08:09 PM,
#33
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
I think that way of thinking is part of what keeps the illusion in place. Smile
Consider that the illusion is an illusion. The illusion is already broken, since it's illusory it has never been truly substantial, it is your choice to what degree you wish to see this. Are you so sure that the illusion doesn't go away simply by saying that? It seems beyond that is just distortion. Realistically saying anything otherwise would be further from the truth. Really, I think the purpose of continuously stating that "everything is one" is to A) Relate every single lesson back to this one fundamental teaching and B) To bring oneself closer to that state of realization by using the gateway of one's own belief through consistent affirmation. To me, it's a constant reminder of the fact that absolutely every tiny little bit of experience is absolutely meaningful and part of the entire picture. Without the slightest buzz from an insect or the texture of wind passing a single tree in the desert, truly the entire rest of the cosmos would not, could not exist.
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06-20-2011, 08:57 PM,
#34
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-20-2011, 08:07 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote:  
(06-20-2011, 07:26 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:  Everything is One now. It's not One in the future. It's always One.

I'm sure unity knows this, but I think what he's saying is the illusion of separation doesn't go away by simply saying "everything is one" to every topic of learning. There are more intricacies to be discussed before we will truly break the illusion and everything will be one without any illusion of separation.

Please forgive me, but I don't believe he does
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06-20-2011, 09:14 PM,
#35
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-20-2011, 06:35 PM)unity100 Wrote:  the whole purpose of entire existence is, the discovery of that 'one' through the creation created.

I thought the point was to investigate finity (many-ness)?
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06-20-2011, 09:24 PM,
#36
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-20-2011, 08:09 PM)Azrael Wrote:  I think that way of thinking is part of what keeps the illusion in place. Smile
Consider that the illusion is an illusion. The illusion is already broken, since it's illusory it has never been truly substantial, it is your choice to what degree you wish to see this. Are you so sure that the illusion doesn't go away simply by saying that? It seems beyond that is just distortion. Realistically saying anything otherwise would be further from the truth. Really, I think the purpose of continuously stating that "everything is one" is to A) Relate every single lesson back to this one fundamental teaching and B) To bring oneself closer to that state of realization by using the gateway of one's own belief through consistent affirmation. To me, it's a constant reminder of the fact that absolutely every tiny little bit of experience is absolutely meaningful and part of the entire picture. Without the slightest buzz from an insect or the texture of wind passing a single tree in the desert, truly the entire rest of the cosmos would not, could not exist.

I realize everything is one...you realize everything is one...we're still in the illusion?
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06-20-2011, 09:56 PM,
#37
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-20-2011, 09:14 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:  
(06-20-2011, 06:35 PM)unity100 Wrote:  the whole purpose of entire existence is, the discovery of that 'one' through the creation created.

I thought the point was to investigate finity (many-ness)?

they are the same. the 'one' that is taken through the perception of 6d entity, is actually comprised of infinite finites. it is also infinitely many. there are two aspects to it.

conceptually it can be said that because there can be only 'one' infinity, there is 'one' infinity. but, the concept 'one' or 'many' are also concepts inside infinity. so actually the 'one' is also meaningless.

but if we take it from ra's point, there is an infinity which manifests through an infinitely manifesting central sun, and all existence is exploring themselves through the infinite manyness it manifests.

if we put it from ra's standpoint in simple form :

infinite manyness is discovering how the union of infinite many is, and that union of infinite many is called 'one'.

(06-20-2011, 08:07 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote:  I'm sure unity knows this, but I think what he's saying is the illusion of separation doesn't go away by simply saying "everything is one" to every topic of learning.

not only that, but existence will teach it, even if it requires something analogous to a plank hitting a face, eventually. that learning is inevitable.

Quote:There are more intricacies to be discussed before we will truly break the illusion and everything will be one without any illusion of separation.

this will probably happen only at the point infinity - ie, an increasingly decreasing level of 'illusion' will keep maintaining densities until entities reach end of gateway density in this octave.
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06-20-2011, 10:16 PM,
#38
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
Oneness is not a goal. It is not a destination. It is not a place to arrive when a density is achieved.


We're fishtailing now. Infinity rhetoric does not solidify perspectives on strict interpretation of the "point" of LOO.
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06-20-2011, 10:20 PM,
#39
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
When we speak of infinity and infinite finite realities, our brains come NOwhere close to truly comprehending these terms. So I say just go with the flow, Discover and understand what you can and enjoy the ride Smile We will truly understand "illusion" when the time is right. I think we kid ourselves to belive we "understand" any of what we say. Dosent Ra say that they key to completing this density is to realize and admit that we don't understand? (I gotta learn how to post quotes Lol)
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06-20-2011, 10:31 PM,
#40
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
" I think we kid ourselves to belive we "understand" any of what we say."

so very true. I am guilty as charged Smile
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06-20-2011, 10:37 PM,
#41
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-20-2011, 09:56 PM)unity100 Wrote:  infinite manyness is discovering how the union of infinite many is, and that union of infinite many is called 'one'.

Seems like kind of the long way around the bush compared to "[t]hus the one intelligent infinity invested itself in an exploration of many-ness."

(06-20-2011, 10:16 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:  Oneness is not a goal. It is not a destination. It is not a place to arrive when a density is achieved.

+1

Here's the same idea (I think) in poetic language: "We leave you in appreciation of the circumstances of the great illusion in which you now choose to play the pipe and timbrel and move in rhythm. We are also players upon a stage. The stage changes. The acts ring down. The lights come up once again. And throughout the grand illusion and the following and the following there is the undergirding majesty of the One Infinite Creator. All is well. Nothing is lost."

(06-20-2011, 10:20 PM)111 Wrote:  Dosent Ra say that they key to completing this density is to realize and admit that we don't understand?

Yup.

16.37 Questioner: I am assuming that it is not necessary for an individual to understand the Law of One to go from the third to the fourth density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.
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06-21-2011, 12:53 AM,
#42
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-20-2011, 10:16 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:  Oneness is not a goal. It is not a destination. It is not a place to arrive when a density is achieved.

"Ra:... We cannot say what is beyond this dissolution of the unified self with all that there is, for we still seek to become all that there is, and still are we Ra. Thus our paths go onward."

Oneness, innate and inherently the nature of all things, but we are buried deep within distortions of that Oneness. Is it not a goal to remove those distortions, and to once again realize this Oneness? Is it not a goal to arrive at a place where we are no longer perceiving ourselves as separate from all else?

We can say "all is one" all day long, but at the end of the day, you are still an individual saying that. We can realize the end, but it doesn't eliminate the means.
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06-21-2011, 09:21 AM,
#43
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-20-2011, 10:37 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:  Seems like kind of the long way around the bush compared to "[t]hus the one intelligent infinity invested itself in an exploration of many-ness."

nay. for the above sentence is lacking in meaning. the intelligent infinity is not 'one'. it is also many.

Quote:
(06-20-2011, 10:20 PM)111 Wrote:  Dosent Ra say that they key to completing this density is to realize and admit that we don't understand?

Yup.

16.37 Questioner: I am assuming that it is not necessary for an individual to understand the Law of One to go from the third to the fourth density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.

some of you people are hell bent on not understanding even if you are able to understand.

one should remember two things regarding this subject

- law of responsibility
- not everyone's lessons are the lesson of choicemaking in 3d.

there is little to gain for a 3d entity from ra material. those entities who are making the choice, are in need of making that choice spiritually, and they are busy with the lessons with their other selves as this planetary nexus offers.

the ones who are almost qualified, but having been blocked by mental biases they need to clear by consuming advanced information like this, would not be many. in fact, including wanderers, Ra estimated that 362,000 planet-wide, was calling for the information they were giving. and in wanderer awakening percentage talk, they mentioned that this information would make sense to first 2 percentage groups.

even if there are 3d entities needing to consume this kind of information to clear their mental bias for facilitating their choice, this will not happen with them not choosing to understand what they learn. in such a situation, the entity would need to learn why, and understand how, so that its mental biases could be cleared.

..........

in short - if you dont want to understand 'the one' (or whatever you are naming infinite intelligence), then dont. it is contradictory to participate in a forum that is for discussing and understanding that 'one', to say that you shouldnt.

why would someone be here discussing in the first place, if s/he doesnt want to understand ...
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06-21-2011, 10:19 AM,
#44
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-21-2011, 12:53 AM)abridgetoofar Wrote:  
(06-20-2011, 10:16 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:  Oneness is not a goal. It is not a destination. It is not a place to arrive when a density is achieved.

"Ra:... We cannot say what is beyond this dissolution of the unified self with all that there is, for we still seek to become all that there is, and still are we Ra. Thus our paths go onward."

Oneness, innate and inherently the nature of all things, but we are buried deep within distortions of that Oneness. Is it not a goal to remove those distortions, and to once again realize this Oneness? Is it not a goal to arrive at a place where we are no longer perceiving ourselves as separate from all else?

We can say "all is one" all day long, but at the end of the day, you are still an individual saying that. We can realize the end, but it doesn't eliminate the means.

At the same time, we can spend all winter praying for a rose bush to produce a rose. The rose will bud and blossom at its set "time" regardless of our prayerful intentions.

Did the striving produce the effect, or was the product in existence all along? The blossom, in that 'alternate/parallel', was always going to be there at that nexus. Sure, if we chose to pray all winter, we were doing what we were doing/being, and this being was part of the One, but is was only what we were being at that nexus, which upon being now, is what is a part of the One, forever. What we do is what we do.
(06-21-2011, 09:21 AM)unity100 Wrote:  some of you people are hell bent on not understanding even if you are able to understand.
..........

in short - if you dont want to understand 'the one' (or whatever you are naming infinite intelligence), then dont. it is contradictory to participate in a forum that is for discussing and understanding that 'one', to say that you shouldnt.

why would someone be here discussing in the first place, if s/he doesnt want to understand ...

MIRROR!
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06-21-2011, 10:47 AM,
#45
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-21-2011, 09:21 AM)unity100 Wrote:  - not everyone's lessons are the lesson of choicemaking in 3d.

Is that your own perception or you found something in the material that makes you think that way?
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06-21-2011, 11:14 AM,
#46
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-18-2011, 06:13 PM)Azrael Wrote:  For the high A and low A, we can imagine that A itself as a whole has a sort of frequency. In that the harmonious note of A makes its appearance in a predictable manner throughout the frequencies. I'd refer to this greater wavelength as the A note archetype, with each individual A frequency being typal.

9 is the limitless finite limit, being notable as the trine of trinities. It is the maximal state in that it is post-completion, it is a state where everything is done, it is the moment before absolute singularity once again, if that is indeed the "end". 9 supposes to me a sort of platform, a still point where suddenly there is one final look back and from which one infinitely has the choice to play with the universe we have all united to create. If I was to imagine infinite in this manner infinite would be composed of infinite 9's, all bending ever and ever closer to a one once again. We must remember that all the numbers came in to existence simultaneously because they all suppose eachother. If you have one, you instantly must have two, which absolutely signifies three and four on the double, which necessitates the five, six on the double, seven and eight on the double. Now we come to 9, which is in fact composed of every single one of these numbers, and is that which unites with the one. It is the 1's reflection, it is its immediate shadow. Now, there is a fancy trick here! 2 is a very interesting number being the separation of the 9 from the 1. Three divides the 9 in to even parts, the trine trinities, 4 is that which strives for completion since it must double to engage unity (4 + 4 + 1), 5 is the choice to come back, since upon its double the power of the choice is given back, it is the infinite self which has seen all, been all, but chooses to forget for the sake of growth, 6 is the intuitive path, signatory of the trinity doubled, it engages completion (4) for a unity and you discover the post-completed stillness through addition of the last trinity, 7 is a very amazing number, being a branching point between every single other number, it is the connection, the synchronicity, it reaches unity in natural catalyst with trinity and its keen perception of duality is the key to the gateway of the 9th, 8 is very close to unity since it signifies a completion, it is its own unity in the new octave being a completion of the strive for completion, it requires the closing of duality to reach unity, and realization of the 8th necessitates realization of the 9th due to the intimate interaction with the One. So the 9th gateway is opened to all octaves.

Phew, that actually really pushed my mind to bring these concepts down, especially around the 6th.

you sound like me on speed, unfortunately i'm not anymore and you lost me at if you have one, still a great post!Tongue
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06-21-2011, 01:12 PM,
#47
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
In Ras quote, he says one must coinsiously understand that you DON'T understand. We are all Human, regardless of where we were before coming to 3d earth. We ALL have to admit that we don't understand. I get what your saying unity, but Ra makes it pretty clear.
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06-21-2011, 02:47 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-21-2011, 02:47 PM by Turtle.)
#48
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-21-2011, 01:12 PM)111 Wrote:  In Ras quote, he says one must coinsiously understand that you DON'T understand. We are all Human, regardless of where we were before coming to 3d earth. We ALL have to admit that we don't understand. I get what your saying unity, but Ra makes it pretty clear.

In general, humankind understands very little of it's own physical universe. Certain individuals however, have come to learn MUCH of their own physical universe-experience, even though they know that there is a seemingly infinite amount of unlearned information to be had. Take a lifelong shaman, who is say, 80 years old, and a true master at weaving in and out of his body and doing most of his work on non-physical planes. I bet you a man like that has a deeeep understanding of things many people only casually talk about, YET knows that he is aware of so so little in the grand scheme of things.

In short...you can understand MUCH compared to other people, and yet consciously realize you barely understand anything at all. Degrees of understanding...
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06-21-2011, 03:04 PM,
#49
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
why can't you think you understand?
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06-21-2011, 03:31 PM,
#50
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
Thinking that I understand limits me in my ability see through the gateway.

Of course, I don't understand what that means...at all Wink
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06-21-2011, 04:05 PM,
#51
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-21-2011, 03:04 PM)Oceania Wrote:  why can't you think you understand?

Turtle hit the nail on the head. Its not that I don't believe I Semi understand far advanced concepts. But I coinsiously understand that my knowledge of the universe is comparable to a grain of sand on an endless beech Smile
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06-21-2011, 04:11 PM,
#52
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
but why oh why?
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06-21-2011, 04:49 PM,
#53
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-17-2011, 03:22 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote:  Per request, Ra's quote on the Guardians' role in Harvest:

Quote:The third group watching over this process is that group you call the Guardians. This group is from the octave above our own and serves in this manner as light bringers. These Guardians provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained.


Can anyone perhaps share what they believe this means? Do the Guardians consciously descend to our octave to perform this task? What exactly does it mean to "provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained."?

I believe it means that each entity comes to possess a unique vibratory signature which is determined by the precise calibration of love/light in their vibratory pattern. In another thread I am talking about the balance of love/wisdom so in this sense I am using light as interchangeable with wisdom.

As Ra notes in the quote you provided, there are others whose position in the density spectrum confers them with the honor/duty to assist others at the specific transition point between 3D and 4D.

The "Guardians from the Octave above" are coming from the perspective of an entity that has already traversed a unique path through 4D, and beyond. Both perspectives are helpful.

I think a great metaphor is provided for in A Wrinkle In Time. I can think of no better comparison for my idea of the contrast between a 4D positive, and a 4D negative world. It is easy to see how, in the beginning, it might be difficult to perceive the difference between one and the other. Well now that I think about it, that's probably where I got the idea from in the first place. Smile

Remember, according to Ra it actually becomes easier to switch from one polarization to another as one approaches mid 6th density, which is contrary to what one might naturally speculate. So to me, the Guardians are here to provide a frame of reference that seeks to maximize a "future" harvest into 8D.

In other words, the Guardians are here not to help us graduate from 3D to 4D, but to color the experience with subtle nuances that can catalyze us to move through 4D in a manner which is most consistent with the "precise emission" of its Higher Self in 6D - 8D.
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06-21-2011, 05:09 PM,
#54
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
I Haven't read a wrinkle in time since before I found the LOO!!! I never equated the grey planet to 4d but that's great!! I like your thought that the guardians "Add Color"
That seems to be what Ra is saying. That these "guardians" Help inspire all who seek in this octave through spirit AND direct incarnation to find their way to 4d and eventually to the next octave of experience. Dosent say they control the harvest process. But aid in love/light and spiritual progression Smile
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Tenet Nosce
06-21-2011, 05:17 PM,
#55
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-21-2011, 10:47 AM)Ankh Wrote:  
(06-21-2011, 09:21 AM)unity100 Wrote:  - not everyone's lessons are the lesson of choicemaking in 3d.

Is that your own perception or you found something in the material that makes you think that way?

My reading of unity's post says that most everyone in the b4th community are Wanderers or equivalent and, therefore, made their Choice back when they were native to 3D.

IMHO, few or no native 3Ders will be attracted to this information because it looks kooky, bizarre, unintelligible, or not applicable to their situations. Also, as the LOO material helps with understanding and Ra themselves said no true 3Ders have understanding pre-Harvest, the LOO, L/L Research and Bring4th are not for them. I never thought about this, but it makes sense now. So I guess I'll promote myself to Wanderer status. Cool
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06-21-2011, 05:36 PM,
#56
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
i just don't get it. how can it make sense to us? not that all of it does. Tongue
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06-21-2011, 06:22 PM,
#57
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-21-2011, 04:49 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
(06-17-2011, 03:22 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote:  Per request, Ra's quote on the Guardians' role in Harvest:

Quote:The third group watching over this process is that group you call the Guardians. This group is from the octave above our own and serves in this manner as light bringers. These Guardians provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained.


Can anyone perhaps share what they believe this means? Do the Guardians consciously descend to our octave to perform this task? What exactly does it mean to "provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained."?

I believe it means that each entity comes to possess a unique vibratory signature which is determined by the precise calibration of love/light in their vibratory pattern. In another thread I am talking about the balance of love/wisdom so in this sense I am using light as interchangeable with wisdom.

As Ra notes in the quote you provided, there are others whose position in the density spectrum confers them with the honor/duty to assist others at the specific transition point between 3D and 4D.

The "Guardians from the Octave above" are coming from the perspective of an entity that has already traversed a unique path through 4D, and beyond. Both perspectives are helpful.

I think a great metaphor is provided for in A Wrinkle In Time. I can think of no better comparison for my idea of the contrast between a 4D positive, and a 4D negative world. It is easy to see how, in the beginning, it might be difficult to perceive the difference between one and the other. Well now that I think about it, that's probably where I got the idea from in the first place. Smile

Remember, according to Ra it actually becomes easier to switch from one polarization to another as one approaches mid 6th density, which is contrary to what one might naturally speculate. So to me, the Guardians are here to provide a frame of reference that seeks to maximize a "future" harvest into 8D.

In other words, the Guardians are here not to help us graduate from 3D to 4D, but to color the experience with subtle nuances that can catalyze us to move through 4D in a manner which is most consistent with the "precise emission" of its Higher Self in 6D - 8D.

OH MAN! A+ Reference, A Wrinkle In Time is an amazing novel, and eerily syncronitic with our current state! I agree with you 100%, the Guardians appear to help the harvest in a way that will help all in future harvests.
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Tenet Nosce
06-21-2011, 06:54 PM,
#58
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-21-2011, 05:17 PM)kycahi Wrote:  
(06-21-2011, 10:47 AM)Ankh Wrote:  
(06-21-2011, 09:21 AM)unity100 Wrote:  - not everyone's lessons are the lesson of choicemaking in 3d.

Is that your own perception or you found something in the material that makes you think that way?

My reading of unity's post says that most everyone in the b4th community are Wanderers or equivalent and, therefore, made their Choice back when they were native to 3D.

IMHO, few or no native 3Ders will be attracted to this information because it looks kooky, bizarre, unintelligible, or not applicable to their situations. Also, as the LOO material helps with understanding and Ra themselves said no true 3Ders have understanding pre-Harvest, the LOO, L/L Research and Bring4th are not for them. I never thought about this, but it makes sense now. So I guess I'll promote myself to Wanderer status. Cool

Thanks "unity" Big Grin

But jokes aside - does understanding of LOO directly implies that you are living it, hence making the choice? And I thought that Wanderers, who submitted themselves to 3D rules, are subjects to the same rules in order to graduate as the natives? Otherwise it would, for instance, not be any risks for, say, negative Wanderers to enter the forgetfulness, if Wanderers are not subjects to the Harvest rules.
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06-21-2011, 07:02 PM,
#59
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
i don't live LOO. i haven't chosen i think. you still have to choose.
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06-21-2011, 09:23 PM,
#60
RE: Guardians from the Octave above
(06-21-2011, 04:49 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  I think a great metaphor is provided for in A Wrinkle In Time. I can think of no better comparison for my idea of the contrast between a 4D positive, and a 4D negative world. It is easy to see how, in the beginning, it might be difficult to perceive the difference between one and the other. Well now that I think about it, that's probably where I got the idea from in the first place. Smile

Collective Smile

I tried to watch the movie the other day with my children. I had no idea it was a book. I walked in with no preconceived idea of what it was. Of course, I didn't know there was such a "dark" part of the film, and I turned it off at that point (for children's sake).
(06-21-2011, 05:17 PM)kycahi Wrote:  
(06-21-2011, 10:47 AM)Ankh Wrote:  
(06-21-2011, 09:21 AM)unity100 Wrote:  - not everyone's lessons are the lesson of choicemaking in 3d.

Is that your own perception or you found something in the material that makes you think that way?

My reading of unity's post says that most everyone in the b4th community are Wanderers or equivalent and, therefore, made their Choice back when they were native to 3D.

IMHO, few or no native 3Ders will be attracted to this information because it looks kooky, bizarre, unintelligible, or not applicable to their situations. Also, as the LOO material helps with understanding and Ra themselves said no true 3Ders have understanding pre-Harvest, the LOO, L/L Research and Bring4th are not for them. I never thought about this, but it makes sense now. So I guess I'll promote myself to Wanderer status. Cool

That's interesting. It has not been my perspective. It is very interesting to say that none would even take a look. Very interesting. Especially after I was babbling about being surrounded by people who would never heed such material. As though, if I'm a wanderer, I'm tired of being different. Huh. (repetition) Very Interesting.
(06-21-2011, 07:02 PM)Oceania Wrote:  i don't live LOO. i haven't chosen i think. you still have to choose.

I've pounded myself with this thought.

At some point, I realized I had made the choice. When I took a good look at how I interpreted my self, I could see I made the choice. Now!, I am not "good" at putting my choice into play, so to speak. If skill at applying the choice is what matters, I'm in trouble. I don't think skill does matter.

And even though I've tried to think that the choice is made with complete awareness of myself, I'm loosening my grip on that.
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