So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
08-18-2011, 10:32 AM,
#91
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
(08-18-2011, 09:16 AM)zenmaster Wrote:  Think you got the @'s switched. There are different aspects of one reality (e.g. physical, empirical, emotional, mental, historical, symbolic, mythical, ethical, spiritual, etc). Each aspect has its own limitations, context and practicality. Oftentimes (especially on these forums) we erroneously attempt to over extend one aspect at the expense of another or we may confuse one aspect with another, but each can have its own, very real, viability. Each aspect can bridge and support another - i.e. mental and philosophical, philosophical and physical or philosophical and ethical, or emotional and physical, or mythical and spiritual.

But it is important to understand the physical is by no means a primary reality (it may only seem so due to our constant dependency on that aspect due to survival concerns). So when we say that something doesn't exist 'there', what are we really saying? We are trying to distinguish between these aspects and within one aspect in order that their utility can be recognized.


haha, no, I directed my @'s appropriately Smile

I think it would benefit you and I to use our understandings toward a specific scenario in order to understand exactly what we are saying. We are dancing together with broad hypotheticals that are sending us in circles with this discussion.

What I see and can't quite articulate is like looking into a mirror of a mirror. I can comprehend it in my mind, but I can't relay it with text, or words. The archetypal structure, the basis for our understanding of life, is always applied. Allow me this post to refer to that structure as the major arcana tarot 'deck'. I can see the deck applied to the deck of the deck of the deck of the deck of the deck.

For instance, in your paragraph
"But it is important to understand the physical is by no means a primary reality (it may only seem so due to our constant dependency on that aspect due to survival concerns). So when we say that something doesn't exist 'there', what are we really saying? We are trying to distinguish between these aspects and within one aspect in order that their utility can be recognized. "

This sentence "(it may only seem so due to our constant dependency on that aspect due to survival concerns)" is a concern derived directly from the only way one can formulate thought- the archetypal mind. And the application doesn't stop there, it keeps going like the mirror of a mirror.
(08-18-2011, 10:11 AM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:  
(08-18-2011, 01:13 AM)3DMonkey Wrote:  There is not an actual crown chakra. Applying the concept has an actual effect thus making it real. You will never find the crown chakra. It doesn't exist outside the conceptual persona that makes up what you are now.

The Council of Saturn isn't actually there, on the planet Saturn, or the rings of Saturn. It is a concept pertaining to the reality that the what-you-are envisions for itself.

What about Ra? Does Ra actually exist?

Ra is real. No doubt about it.

Do I personally believe Ra is a single unit of multiple entities formed into some kind of invisible ball of light that tele-communicated through a human to give us a message from beyond? No, I don't, but that isn't important to my validity or to the LoO. ... We don't need to accept Ra in that specified way, do we?

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08-18-2011, 10:52 AM,
#92
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
I do see your point 3D, but at the same time I also have an underlying feeling in me that there is a form of Ra that DOES exist as you have just described. Whether or not this is what was responsible for the Ra contact is another thing. Just as a form of physicality in angels MUST exist by virtue of necessity in the face of infinity. However, once again, whether or not these are in any way involved with our current reality is certainly debatable.
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Aaron
08-18-2011, 01:29 PM,
#93
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
Azrael - I think that as we grow, and our vibrations change, we attract entities attracted to these vibrations; whether they are angels, Ra or others. If we choose to believe in them, we can start working with them, ask them to be of service, so we ourselves can be of better service.

Q'uo Wrote:You are limited in what you see, while we, as the song before the meditation says, are relatively unbound by strictures of any kind, yet please realize that we are naturally limited by our gifts. Our nature and the quality and shape of our intention moved us to you in a certain way and we vibrate at that frequency of love and service. That is our environment and it is from that environment that we offer our service.


I think that you would find this channeling of Q'uo very interesting as it addresses the concept of Angels.
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kycahi
08-18-2011, 03:09 PM,
#94
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
This is exactly along the same lines as I was thinking! Thanks for the post, this has been very affirming.
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08-18-2011, 03:09 PM,
#95
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
(08-18-2011, 10:32 AM)3DMonkey Wrote:  Ra is real. No doubt about it.

Do I personally believe Ra is a single unit of multiple entities formed into some kind of invisible ball of light that tele-communicated through a human to give us a message from beyond? No, I don't, but that isn't important to my validity or to the LoO.

I'm curious. How do you think of Ra? In what way do you think it/they is/are real?
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08-18-2011, 03:17 PM,
#96
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
(08-18-2011, 03:09 PM)Azrael Wrote:  This is exactly along the same lines as I was thinking! Thanks for the post, this has been very affirming.

I agree. Touchdown, Ankh!
(08-18-2011, 03:09 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:  
(08-18-2011, 10:32 AM)3DMonkey Wrote:  Ra is real. No doubt about it.

Do I personally believe Ra is a single unit of multiple entities formed into some kind of invisible ball of light that tele-communicated through a human to give us a message from beyond? No, I don't, but that isn't important to my validity or to the LoO.

I'm curious. How do you think of Ra? In what way do you think it/they is/are real?

I'm not doing a great job in expressing my perspective lately, and that question is a BIG one. In simple terms, you have contemplated who Ra is, what they represent, how it might change your perspective/ your life. In turn, we all have. Ra also comes from a set of circumstances and a set of relationships. These all make Ra a real presence. I don't think I will be able to elaborate more than that, because, again, I don't think it fruitful to place Ra in a specified box.

I've already said I don't think they are outside of us, sitting as a planetary station, bothering to send a few telepathic communications beaming down to earth.
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08-18-2011, 03:36 PM,
#97
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
I view Ra to be a principle, just like Q'uo, in this particular case representing the principle of Life, or Creation itself. I consider there to be 3 primary principles, Creation, Transformation and Destruction, which are then composed of amalgamates of principle complexes. Each individual, I've found, also is connected primarily to one of these three principles, although of course we all work with all 3. For myself, I'm of the Transformative principle, or rather Death principle, and hence my affiliation with Azrael and not Ra.
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08-18-2011, 07:23 PM,
#98
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
(08-18-2011, 01:29 PM)Ankh Wrote:  I think that you would find this channeling of Q'uo very interesting as it addresses the concept of Angels.
"Therefore, it is important to remember each day to thank the angels that are around you and to ask them to continue helping you." Damn, forgot to thank the angels today.


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08-18-2011, 07:44 PM,
#99
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
That sentence stood out to me too.
Lol. ( but what is "thanks" I think it could be...... Or if you just..... And that would be "thanking"....etc)
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08-18-2011, 07:56 PM,
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
Q'uo Wrote:There are two basic energies which angels have to offer. One is the simple energy of love itself and the other is a feeling of safety, which could be called a healing energy.

If this is true, then it would seem that angels are only useful to those who have not learned to call these energies from within.
We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.
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08-18-2011, 08:04 PM,
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
(08-18-2011, 07:56 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Q'uo Wrote:There are two basic energies which angels have to offer. One is the simple energy of love itself and the other is a feeling of safety, which could be called a healing energy.

If this is true, then it would seem that angels are only useful to those who have not learned to call these energies from within.
Look, Q'uo is the 'transpersonal Carla' (higher vibrational) with basically the same personality and 3D limitations, the same 3D growth of understanding and reliance on new personal and cultural information to provide answers.
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08-18-2011, 08:45 PM,
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
(08-18-2011, 07:56 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Q'uo Wrote:There are two basic energies which angels have to offer. One is the simple energy of love itself and the other is a feeling of safety, which could be called a healing energy.

If this is true, then it would seem that angels are only useful to those who have not learned to call these energies from within.

I would say your intuition is correct in connecting the two. So, why not make them the same thing?
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08-19-2011, 12:28 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-19-2011, 12:45 PM by Tenet Nosce.)
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
(08-18-2011, 08:04 PM)zenmaster Wrote:  Look, Q'uo is the 'transpersonal Carla' (higher vibrational) with basically the same personality and 3D limitations, the same 3D growth of understanding and reliance on new personal and cultural information to provide answers.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/1990/1990_0107.aspx

Q'uo Wrote:I am Q’uo. I am two social memory complexes, the one you know of as Ra, and the one you know of as Latwii.

We have combined because this instrument[1] constantly asks for the highest and best contact it may stably carry. The energies of the one known as Ra, which is a social memory complex of sixth density, is an energy band narrow enough that it requires the locking in, and therefore the unconscious state, of the mind of the channel. The entities of Ra were appalled to see the toll it took upon this instrument to bring forth that which it did channel. It was not expected that there would be so much interest from what this instrument calls the loyal opposition.

When our energies are stepped down to those of Latwii, an energy this instrument feels most comfortable with, we are able to offer concepts that are to some degree more precise, and may we say, perhaps more interesting to the advanced student of metaphysics, than that which is called Latwii would be by the self, for Latwii is of the fifth density, the density of wisdom, and as you can feel, our vibrations are the vibrations not only of unconditional wisdom, but compassion as well.

Thus, we are composite, and as this instrument has often suspected, our name is a pun, a quibble; not a joke, but merely an identification which was clear. We are the I AM, and you too are the I AM, and all that is in creation is the I AM. We chose a language this instrument knew, and used the word meaning “who,” or “which.” It was designed to make the instrument ponder this very point, and we are delighted (in the) results so far, for we of Latwii have been able, with the help of our teachers, those of Ra, to offer information in a way which is clearer and more compassionate, perhaps, than we of Latwii, in and of our own social memory complex, could accomplish. We find that our senses of humor are not at all the same, and so we have attempted to give up our sense of humor, that the higher sense of humor or wisdom informed by compassion may do its subtle work in these meditations.

I like where it says that "The entities of Ra were appalled [to fill with horror; shock or dismay. Literally, to become pale] to see the toll it took upon this instrument to bring forth that which it did channel." Appalled. Interesting choice of words. This also underscores the idea that Ra makes (has been making, still does make) mistakes. So, being 6D does not preclude one from getting caught up in unforeseen consequences. Of course, Ra themselves never proclaim to be more than "humble messengers".

Getting back to angels, Q'uo also says that, for the most part, angels do not incarnate in physical bodies. According to my understanding, this gives humans the "one up" in the situation. Angels are just disembodied entities with no potential for growth or evolution.

So what does this mean for the human entity that is continuing to grow and evolve? I think it means that angels (and demons) become increasingly viewed as a projection of the subconscious. Angels are like "training wheels" and meant to be discarded once a human being can control their vehicle without external assistance. To keep the training wheels on the vehicle would only serve to slow it down and limit its navigational ability.

There is nothing "wrong" with training wheels, yet it still looks absurd for a grown adult to be using them when they are no longer necessary. Then, to start naming one's training wheels, having regular conversations with them, and refusing to make a choice until consulting one's training wheels... well I guess that's good for a belly laugh but I am not sure what the purpose would be.

According to my read of that Q'uo session on angels, they are nothing more than transformers stepping down love and light energy at every possible level of existence, in order to maintain balance while other entities choose to live under the veil.

Thus, penetrating through the veil entails seeing angels (and demons) for who they really are. This is where things get interesting.

Now it would appear to me, that there are two general directions to go from here: STO and STS.

Taking an STO attitude toward angels requires asking oneself "How can I be of service to the angels?"

Taking an STS attitude toward angels requires asking oneself "How can the angels be of service to me?"

I think I will just pause there to get some feedback before proceeding...
We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.
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08-19-2011, 12:39 PM,
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
(08-19-2011, 12:28 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  According to my read of that Q'uo session on angels, they are nothing more than transformers stepping down love and light energy at every possible level of existence, in order to maintain balance while other entities choose to live under the veil.

And the ones that came to Earth and then became angels- I think these are the personas we would choose to classify as saints (or whatever word you wanna use). The real people we perceive as "saintly" in the way they lived their life and motivate us to do likewise. "Angels" "alive" today, sending there love and light within us.
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08-19-2011, 12:54 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-19-2011, 12:59 PM by Tenet Nosce.)
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
(08-18-2011, 08:45 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:  
(08-18-2011, 07:56 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Q'uo Wrote:There are two basic energies which angels have to offer. One is the simple energy of love itself and the other is a feeling of safety, which could be called a healing energy.

If this is true, then it would seem that angels are only useful to those who have not learned to call these energies from within.

I would say your intuition is correct in connecting the two. So, why not make them the same thing?

Yes, that would make sense as the next logical step. Energy of love and safety. Safety I think is a proxy for wisdom... assuming that a feeling of safety is one of the results of becoming wise. So we have love/wisdom as two counter-rotating spirals.

An entity's ability to perceive itself as Creator is proportional to the degree that these two spirals are observed to be emerging outward, or dispersed from the body. Conversely, to the degree that these two spirals are observed to be collapsing inward, or collected to the body, an entity will perceive itself as Creation.

Therefore, an entity which receives light and love from angelic beings becomes, to a degree, a creation of those beings, and will not be able to rise above (ascend) the level of the angels. If we are the Creator, then the angels are our creation, and are sustained by our love and light, not the other way around.

We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.
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08-19-2011, 05:32 PM,
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
Did you guys read the Q'uo session about the concept of angels? These entities are said to have never left the vibration of the Creator. Humans are trying to give them personalities, which they have not. Their vibration is that of the Original Thought. Some amount of these entities have been incarnated, but have been found to be too innocent for incarnations, and thus, have been removed, to be placed in angelic realms. They are named by Q'uo to be the "little ones, grateful for being rested in open hearts" of human beings who are opened enough, or receptive enough for this kind of merging, or cooperation, or love. But they are in minority. Majority have never been incarnated, and never will. They serve the Creator, in the ways they were created, due the generosity of our Infinite Creator.
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A guiding key question for one who seeks the heart of existence is: "Where is the love in this moment? "
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08-19-2011, 08:10 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-19-2011, 08:18 PM by Tenet Nosce.)
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
(08-19-2011, 05:32 PM)Ankh Wrote:  Did you guys read the Q'uo session about the concept of angels?

Tenet Nosce Wrote:According to my read of that Q'uo session on angels, they are nothing more than transformers stepping down love and light energy at every possible level of existence, in order to maintain balance while other entities choose to live under the veil.

Thus, penetrating through the veil entails seeing angels (and demons) for who they really are. This is where things get interesting.

Now it would appear to me, that there are two general directions to go from here: STO and STS.

Taking an STO attitude toward angels requires asking oneself "How can I be of service to the angels?"

Taking an STS attitude toward angels requires asking oneself "How can the angels be of service to me?"

I think I will just pause there to get some feedback before proceeding...

We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.
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08-19-2011, 11:59 PM,
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
(08-19-2011, 08:10 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  According to my read of that Q'uo session on angels, they are nothing more than transformers stepping down love and light energy at every possible level of existence, in order to maintain balance while other entities choose to live under the veil.

Thus, penetrating through the veil entails seeing angels (and demons) for who they really are. This is where things get interesting.

Now it would appear to me, that there are two general directions to go from here: STO and STS.

Taking an STO attitude toward angels requires asking oneself "How can I be of service to the angels?"

Taking an STS attitude toward angels requires asking oneself "How can the angels be of service to me?"

I think I will just pause there to get some feedback before proceeding...

Ok, I must have missed the piece about light energy then. I didn't see anything about light, but about them being love, never leaving the vibration of the Original Thought, which is that of unconditional love. The veil is said to be used only in 3rd density, but there exists emotional distance later to the Creator. Regarding STS/STO thoughts, I would rather think that angelic beings would gladly be of assitence, or service to you, if you ask them, if you in the first place attracted these beings with your vibrations by serving others. I am not sure they would be attracted to a totally negative person, but then who knows?
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08-21-2011, 12:39 PM,
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
(08-19-2011, 12:28 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  Taking an STO attitude toward angels requires asking oneself "How can I be of service to the angels?"

Taking an STS attitude toward angels requires asking oneself "How can the angels be of service to me?"

This is a very interesting question to ponder because I arrive at different answers depending on whom I consider to be the more powerful entity in a human-angel interaction.

Q'uo says the angels provide love and light energy to those who ask. [As I stated earlier, I conceive a feeling of safety to be a manifestation of light energy. Arguable, but I am going to stick with it.] Now in the most simple sense, the love/light is asked for by the human, offered by the angel, and received by the human. Free-will exchange. Everybody is happy. Both are served. Done deal.

Please understand, I am not saying there is anything "wrong" with this, or that I believe people "should" stop doing it. I am only pointing out that it is sort of a one-way exchange. We say that giving thanks in return is enough for the angels, and I'm sure it is. But at the end of the day, the human got what they wanted, and the angel was simply doing their job. Nobody was really thinking too much about, "How can I be of service to the angels?"

When I think about being of service to the angels, I am not satisfied with the standard line about letting them "do their jobs" and being thankful. If some entity's sole purpose in life is to serve me, then my natural instinct is to release them from service. Let them go. Either to free up more energy for them to serve others, or to return to the Source, as they choose. What do they really have to offer me that I don't already possess?

I can see where angels are useful when one has experienced severe trauma or disappointment, and just needs some extra support for a little while while they recover. But in today's world, I see people calling on the angels for every little trivial thing. Recently, there was another thread started on slavery... I imagine that, when the veil gets removed, some people are/will be surprised to find droves of nonphysical slaves that they had been dragging around with them throughout life, mostly oblivious. Angels, demons, spirit guides, ghosts of dead relatives and pets, and who knows what else. A whole entourage dragging them down.

Now some might get upset or claim that they are not "dragged down" but "lifted up" by all these interactions. Certainly I am in no place to judge that for another. However, I have observed many people who spend a lot of time and energy communicating with otherworldly beings to be consistently lacking in at least one of three areas: health, personal finances, and their significant other (if one exists at all). This has always been very curious to me, and I have yet to find a satisfactory explanation.

The essential thing I am attempting to get at here with respect to "penetrating the veil" is seeing others for who they really are. This includes discarnate and other nonphysical entities. Just like when a child grows up and (hopefully) realizes that their parents are not superhumans, but simply two people trying to do the best that they can. So does the spiritual adult realize that all of these nonphysical beings are really not that much different than anybody else. They all have their own unique light to share, and as well have their own foibles and shortcomings. They also have their own unique destiny.

Point being, as we continue to grow, it seems that we will outpace certain other entities. And the time will come when we will turn to those who helped us realize our own destinies, and help them to realize their own. In that respect, it's never too early to start in my opinion.





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09-16-2011, 12:08 AM,
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
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09-16-2011, 10:23 AM,
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
The "report" button doesn't work for me any more in firefox.
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09-17-2011, 08:06 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-17-2011, 08:36 AM by David Junior.)
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
(08-10-2011, 12:05 PM)godwide_void Wrote:  As is well known to all of us there exists in place the necessary veil which - causing us to forget that we are all individuated aspects of one grand Creator - allows the mechanisms of Free Will to function by giving us a purity of experience for our life experiences so that we may ultimately learn and polarize on the path towards penultimate unity. Were there no veil in place the game would be far too easy for everyone, and there would ultimately be no propensity for mistakes (learning opportunities) and our own choosings.

Now, when one speaks of "piercing the veil" what does it truly mean? I mean, if you consider simply knowing that we are all Creator and various other facets of the LoO and existence then one could say that every single person who frequents this forum and reads through the Law of One has pierced the veil just from reading this information source beingness! But this is not the case, as I'm sure that there are many (including myself) who, while being keenly aware of the Law of One, can sometimes stray. So if just knowing it isn't piercing the veil fully, then what is?

I think I might have pierced the veil personally; I say this because somehow I am able to know exactly WHY every experience I have from now on occurs, and I can gather the exact lesson I am trying to be shown, and I also am 95% certain that I know full well WHY I incarnated here and my mission (which day by day I am doing what I can to work towards). I also feel I am very in tune with the Universe... for example, by simply willing or desiring a small breeze on a particularly hot day I am given the breeze in that instant, I never have to wait for the traffic lights to change anymore when I cross the street, trains and buses will come the instant I get there, etc. Just small things that are little signs that are telling me "you indeed do exert influence over your own dream of life".

Day by day it feels like more and more data and understanding is downloaded into my head as I am coming more to terms with what is meant by truly seeing yourself and all other selves as "Creator". I don't know, what are all of your opinions? Smile

Namaste
I believe that you will look forward to 40,000 years off peering through the 4th density veil with all its doors to wonder,Obviously the 5th curtain will be explored dueing this time/space as well.I hope you enjoy your 4th density experiance,Positive and negative,Remember the negative or dark forces are just sent to test you.Im not referring to black witch craft either.


(08-19-2011, 12:28 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
(08-18-2011, 08:04 PM)zenmaster Wrote:  Look, Q'uo is the 'transpersonal Carla' (higher vibrational) with basically the same personality and 3D limitations, the same 3D growth of understanding and reliance on new personal and cultural information to provide answers.


http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/1990/1990_0107.aspx

Q'uo Wrote:I am Q’uo. I am two social memory complexes, the one you know of as Ra, and the one you know of as Latwii.

We have combined because this instrument[1] constantly asks for the highest and best contact it may stably carry. The energies of the one known as Ra, which is a social memory complex of sixth density, is an energy band narrow enough that it requires the locking in, and therefore the unconscious state, of the mind of the channel. The entities of Ra were appalled to see the toll it took upon this instrument to bring forth that which it did channel. It was not expected that there would be so much interest from what this instrument calls the loyal opposition.

When our energies are stepped down to those of Latwii, an energy this instrument feels most comfortable with, we are able to offer concepts that are to some degree more precise, and may we say, perhaps more interesting to the advanced student of metaphysics, than that which is called Latwii would be by the self, for Latwii is of the fifth density, the density of wisdom, and as you can feel, our vibrations are the vibrations not only of unconditional wisdom, but compassion as well.

Thus, we are composite, and as this instrument has often suspected, our name is a pun, a quibble; not a joke, but merely an identification which was clear. We are the I AM, and you too are the I AM, and all that is in creation is the I AM. We chose a language this instrument knew, and used the word meaning “who,” or “which.” It was designed to make the instrument ponder this very point, and we are delighted (in the) results so far, for we of Latwii have been able, with the help of our teachers, those of Ra, to offer information in a way which is clearer and more compassionate, perhaps, than we of Latwii, in and of our own social memory complex, could accomplish. We find that our senses of humor are not at all the same, and so we have attempted to give up our sense of humor, that the higher sense of humor or wisdom informed by compassion may do its subtle work in these meditations.


I like where it says that "The entities of Ra were appalled [to fill with horror; shock or dismay. Literally, to become pale] to see the toll it took upon this instrument to bring forth that which it did channel." Appalled. Interesting choice of words. This also underscores the idea that Ra makes (has been making, still does make) mistakes. So, being 6D does not preclude one from getting caught up in unforeseen consequences. Of course, Ra themselves never proclaim to be more than "humble messengers".

Getting back to angels, Q'uo also says that, for the most part, angels do not incarnate in physical bodies. According to my understanding, this gives humans the "one up" in the situation. Angels are just disembodied entities with no potential for growth or evolution.

So what does this mean for the human entity that is continuing to grow and evolve? I think it means that angels (and demons) become increasingly viewed as a projection of the subconscious. Angels are like "training wheels" and meant to be discarded once a human being can control their vehicle without external assistance. To keep the training wheels on the vehicle would only serve to slow it down and limit its navigational ability.

There is nothing "wrong" with training wheels, yet it still looks absurd for a grown adult to be using them when they are no longer necessary. Then, to start naming one's training wheels, having regular conversations with them, and refusing to make a choice until consulting one's training wheels... well I guess that's good for a belly laugh but I am not sure what the purpose would be.

According to my read of that Q'uo session on angels, they are nothing more than transformers stepping down love and light energy at every possible level of existence, in order to maintain balance while other entities choose to live under the veil.

Thus, penetrating through the veil entails seeing angels (and demons) for who they really are. This is where things get interesting.

Now it would appear to me, that there are two general directions to go from here: STO and STS.

Taking an STO attitude toward angels requires asking oneself "How can I be of service to the angels?"

Taking an STS attitude toward angels requires asking oneself "How can the angels be of service to me?"

I think I will just pause there to get some feedback before proceeding...
From David Junior,I have experianced angels in differant octaves off the 5th and 4th densitys.Some people who experiance help and giuldance othen mix up Angels with Family and freinds.Not all giudes are Angels,Even though they can be angelic.Its userly Family and freinds making contact untill,Family and freinds off the Earth bound spirit make a call to one off the 1033 white houses,Asking for help and advise.

What I know off when crossing into the 5th density,The time it takes to get used to getting your breath back,Is known for some as letting your wings dry.As far as discussion go's with Father Our lord,There are only 1033 Angels off the highest order.

Good luck with your awakening by the way


We are eternal beings, But first we must shift to other worlds with help
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09-23-2011, 12:47 AM,
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
(09-16-2011, 10:23 AM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:  The "report" button doesn't work for me any more in firefox.

Ditto. Have you messaged any of us about it? I see this was a few days ago... If not, I'll let Mr. Steve know. Smile
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09-23-2011, 08:35 PM,
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
(09-23-2011, 12:47 AM)Bring4th_Aaron Wrote:  
(09-16-2011, 10:23 AM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:  The "report" button doesn't work for me any more in firefox.

Ditto. Have you messaged any of us about it? I see this was a few days ago... If not, I'll let Mr. Steve know. Smile
Hasn't worked for since the update, AFAIK.


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09-23-2011, 11:27 PM,
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
Roger that, I'll check into why it's not working...
Steve
(09-23-2011, 08:35 PM)zenmaster Wrote:  
(09-23-2011, 12:47 AM)Bring4th_Aaron Wrote:  
(09-16-2011, 10:23 AM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:  The "report" button doesn't work for me any more in firefox.

Ditto. Have you messaged any of us about it? I see this was a few days ago... If not, I'll let Mr. Steve know. Smile
Hasn't worked for since the update, AFAIK.

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05-27-2012, 10:20 PM,
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
haven't read the whole thread, so hope this isn't a repost:

this has always amazed astonished me:

Quote:83.16 Ra: In general, we may say that by far the most vivid and even extravagant opportunities for the piercing of the veil are a result of the interaction of polarized entities.

unfortunately, in the next part, it goes on to say:

Quote:83.17 Questioner: Could you expand on what you mean by that interaction of polarized entities in piercing the veil?

Ra: I am Ra. We shall state two items of note. The first is the extreme potential for polarization in the relationship of two polarized entities which have embarked upon the service-to-others path or, in some few cases, the service-to-self path. Secondly, we would note that effect which we have learned to call the doubling effect. Those of like mind which together seek shall far more surely find.

which I have always read as a male-female bonding that is extremely STO/spiritual on both sides.

I love the word 'dismantling' here:

Quote:83.18 Within the adept is the potential for dismantling the veil to a greater or lesser extent that all may be seen again as one. The other-self is primary catalyst in this particular path to the piercing of the veil, if you would call it that.

- -

for those fortunate enough to be in a Wanderer-Wanderer relationship:

Quote:89.36 Questioner: What was the reason for the wandering of these two Wanderers, and were they male and female?

Ra: I am Ra. All Wanderers come to be of assistance in serving the Creator, each in its own way. The Wanderers of which we have been speaking were indeed incarnated male and female as this is by far the most efficient system of partnership.

(but these Wanderers didn't turn out too great lol)
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Patrick
06-05-2015, 07:29 PM,
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
I didn't realize that angels had no personality. I wonder if the angelic realms are more blissful than the high astral realms we go to after we die.

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06-07-2015, 03:32 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-07-2015, 04:23 PM by APeacefulWarrior.)
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
(05-27-2012, 10:20 PM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote:  
Quote:83.17 Questioner: Could you expand on what you mean by that interaction of polarized entities in piercing the veil?

Ra: I am Ra. We shall state two items of note. The first is the extreme potential for polarization in the relationship of two polarized entities which have embarked upon the service-to-others path or, in some few cases, the service-to-self path. Secondly, we would note that effect which we have learned to call the doubling effect. Those of like mind which together seek shall far more surely find.

which I have always read as a male-female bonding that is extremely STO/spiritual on both sides.

I just re-read 83 because something interesting occurred to me, seeing your post, and I don't see anything that argues against the idea: He only says entities. He doesn't specify "Wanderers" or "third density incarnations" or such.

So I would suggest that the advice could, depending on individual circumstances, also apply to a person and their own higher selves (and/or guardian spirits, guides, originating S-M-C, whatev) if that person developed enough connection\rapport with them.

Just something to ponder...

Quote:
Quote:89.36 Questioner: What was the reason for the wandering of these two Wanderers, and were they male and female?

Ra: I am Ra. All Wanderers come to be of assistance in serving the Creator, each in its own way. The Wanderers of which we have been speaking were indeed incarnated male and female as this is by far the most efficient system of partnership.

(but these Wanderers didn't turn out too great lol)

They turned out fine. There are no mistakes, right? Smile They spent some time playing negative games, then got themselves back on the positive path and even became part of Ra's S-M-C for awhile. Presumably their time spent negative will\would\did pay off in hastening their reconnection to the Creator during the 6-->7D transition.

Besides, I love how Ra answers the followup:

Quote:89.40 Questioner: What was the attitude of these two entities after they graduated into fourth-density negative and, the veil being removed, they realized that they had switched polarities?

Ra: I am Ra. They were disconcerted.

Sometimes I suspect Ra has a very dry\deadpan sense of humor. Either way, I feel like the Wanderers in question must have made a deliberate decision to remain negative since, having recalled what they used to be, they must have been in a position to decide which "path" to head down in their future work.

Time will tell.  It always does.
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Highrculling
06-07-2015, 04:31 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-07-2015, 05:18 PM by Elros.)
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
Life on earth is like a truman show. You're just clueless and have no actual idea what is going on and what you need to do and as such you can see how you'll act under your chosen circumstances.

The heavens are just waiting for you to become aware of their presence.
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Glow
06-09-2015, 04:34 AM,
RE: So, what does penetrating the veil truly entail?
I am in a wanderer-wanderer relationship=)
You must not follow, but you shall witness.
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