Freedom.

[Turtle]

I have been posting in the "Life on planet Earth" forum lately because that is exactly what has been occupying my mind and my heart lately, this life.

I want freedom from it.

Freedom from uncertainty, mystery, and paradoxes.

Everyone of us believes in something. Some believe in nothing, which is still a belief. Either way, we all have a belief about life and death. I do not know if death brings ultimate freedom, but it certainly brings freedom from this life, this body.

Regardless of whether or not reincarnation is true, freedom from this body is guaranteed, and that has been my most cherished thought for a long time...a thought that brings me great comfort.

Please excuse the journal-like vibe of this post, I must admit I did not write it for anyone's benefit but my own. I needed to write this, and to know other people will read this, also makes me feel comforted. Please don't make the mistake of thinking I am going to end my life, I posted this because I know I will not, and cannot allow that to happen, if you understand what I mean.

I have reached a chapter in life where EVERYTHING I have learned and experienced feels very distant to me, like it is not my life at all that I am living.

I carry on, creating peace in my heart when it feels too much pressure, and emptiness in my mind when it has processed too many versions of "truth." As always, I wish you all godspeed in all your endeavors, and may you live the life you wish you live...

The life I wish to live, cannot be found or created here, of this I am certain.

-Jamal

[ayadew]

Hello, my friend.

There is always the two paradoxes of freedom (it's these I've concluded so far, at least).
1. If all had freedom, one individual part of all is free to remove another's freedom, and as such there is no freedom while all has freedom.
This leads to 2. To exist is an infringement on freedom, yet one has to exist to acquire it as freedom denies the possibility of non-existence where there is no freedom.

Thus I think, to dwelve on the matter of leaving this place simple to gain freedom is a futile cause. Freedom is in your mind, as all things. The moment you realise that freedom does not matter, and that the feelings which causes this 'lack of freedom' can be denied, then you will be truly free, to do whatever you wish and feel whatever you wish, in my view of things! (maybe this can be called the 3rd paradox of freedom...)

I wish you well in life, and when we meet again I look forward to hear what you've been doing.

[Turtle]

Free of mind, free of body, existing as the conscious being of light and matter that I am.

I can tune my awareness to this state, and life becomes effortless for as long as I can focus. Yet still...I want to be free from this mind, and this body.

Much love.

-Jamal

[Ali Quadir]

The universe is but one construct. Positions in it are perceptions of this singular construct. Parallel universes really aren't parallel, more sort of what happens if you squeeze various tubes of paint unto a canvas. They come together and where they touch they mix. But any color can usually be approached from a variety of directions and neighboring colors. There is an infinite number of possible states for every aspect of the universe. And a perception in it is any internally consistent state or manifested reality that does not contradict itself into some existential crisis.

We move our perception through this construct along certain self dictated laws. For example time moves forward and causality defines the transmutation of state into state always guarding the consistency. These laws are more a function of the beholder than of the matter beheld. They cause the motion picture of life.

You perceive the whole universe, or at least all of it that is relative to you. You could anxiously try to get to places beyond the horizon. But their existence is only relative to you. Don't get me wrong they do exist without your perception. But only as potential once you get there it's you that makes them what they are to you. It is certain that what you see of them now is only your anticipation.

In other words... They, these places or what you see when you're in them are exactly related to you. You define them. You realize them. You are their root cause. Not the other way around.

If the life you want to live cannot be found in this world Jamal.. Then you are not creating it. Perhaps because you desire an inconsistency. Can you experience this world and the world you dream off at the same time? If not then maybe they're inconsistent, mutually exclusive... If you're in New York you cannot be in London. These states mutually exclude. Or is our imagination failing us? Are there shortcuts like telephone or television? Perhaps all these states exist somewhere in the infinite complexity of this perceived singular construct. If they do.. Do you need to go there? Or can you pull their reality into yours?

You know exactly what you were like in that peaceful infinite.Why are you not that exact thing here? What is holding you back? A New Yorker can live in London and still bring a bit of New York with him, him being that bit.

I hope this isn't too abstract or too confusing. I've felt loneliness and homesickness for much of my time here. Until I accepted earth as home and humanity as tribe. Don't get me wrong. But if you don't have the same luck I believe it's because you're not making the same choice.

[Turtle]

"I hope this isn't too abstract or too confusing. I've felt loneliness and homesickness for much of my time here. Until I accepted earth as home and humanity as tribe. Don't get me wrong. But if you don't have the same luck I believe it's because you're not making the same choice."

You're right, I am not making that choice, nor do I want to. Nothing about this place or our people make me feel like I am at home or in any real tribe. To me, I am in a version of reality that is unsettling and is filled with many, many fragmented tribes humankind. I gravitate to those small groups that I vibe with, and I create the peace and harmony that I can create within them.

You have to remember something...we are not gods on this planet. It doesn't matter if we are at one with all creation, or if you awaken to your true beingness here. On this planet at least, there are rules you cannot break. Even our altruistic friends from above cannot break these rules, and they are way ahead of us on EVERY level. Even if I knew how it could be done, and had all the means to do it, I would not be allowed to manifest tons of food for people in front of their eyes out of thin air.

The world I want to live in, and the life I want to live, require a completely different kind of reality, one that I am not able to fully describe. In order for me to be able to completely describe how it would work, I would need a more highly evolved mind/knowledge base. I only know how bits and pieces of it would work.

Remember also, what Ra said about the nature of third density. It is the quickest, most volatile density to experience for the soul. Whatever the next stages of spiritual evolution hold for us beyond this realm, they will be easier, and MUCH longer. Given that, which I like to believe is true, I feel like it is completely natural for me to want freedom from all this. Nevermind the whole wanderer thing or wherever I might have been in past lives, this place is crazy enough for someone who has lived a million lives on earth...and I want out, lol.

-Jamal

[Ali Quadir]

You're right, I am not making that choice, nor do I want to. Nothing about this place or our people make me feel like I am at home or in any real tribe. To me, I am in a version of reality that is unsettling and is filled with many, many fragmented tribes humankind. I gravitate to those small groups that I vibe with, and I create the peace and harmony that I can create within them.

Did the infinite creator put you here? If so is this not the place where you should be? Are you not performing a disservice to him by crossing your arms and legs and looking the other way hoping that it will all go away soon? Only to be replaced by this thing that you don't know that you don't understand which has none the less convinced you that it is your only chance for happiness.

I have a name for people like you.. It's Renunciate. You will get exactly what you ask for. And at this rate that will be very little. So please humor me... Ask for the world.

You state that we are not Gods on this earth... But we are. It matters a great deal if we are at one with creation. You might not see it on the outside. But it is very much the difference between wanting to be free, and knowing you are exactly where you wanted to be.. Freedom is not the power to be somewhere else at will.. That is fleeing. Freedom is the power to be where you are. Wherever that is.

Not in a 3d egotistical I want my wishes granted NOW! Kind of way. But in a "I have crossed oceans of space and time to be here now." kind of way. You cannot contradict yourself. If you traveled into the wild for weeks. You cannot suddenly say "I am not free? I am in the wild! I should be in civilisation!" What you wish for is akin to God wishing for a rock he cannot lift and then getting upset when indeed he finds a rock he cannot lift.

Don't get me wrong. I feel you.. I feel what you're saying. Waking up with the early morning cry of horror after you realize where you are. I know how difficult it can be. I know my alien self pretty well. I know many details about what life was like, even to the point of recalling some of my loved ones there. Their essence lingers in the back of my mind. I realize why many wanderers are cut off from much of their history. It was very hard for me to get over them and just BE here.. When I was born the first year of my life I tried to get away. I only slept I refused food and it was uncertain if I'd stay. But this renunciation was not why I came here.

Let me ask you this. Is there guilt when you think about the idea of accepting earth as home? I had that for a while I felt like I would betray my home and my kin by getting too close to earth. I felt that succeeding here would diminish my connection to there... This wasn't the case. I'm not sure if I'd go back there if given the choice. Now certainly not unless it's for a short vacation. (Hint to the universe ) I'm a wanderer, I belong wherever I am.

Jamal means beautiful. Perhaps the name was given to you because God wanted to remind you of that every time someone calls you by it.

There's a lot of freedom available. Surprisingly many people on the forum report stuff that's not supposed to be possible in city block consciousness. On Earth if you do not disturb the global consciousness small excursions into mad magical terrain are very possible. I've personally seen heard and done things that are not supposed to be possible. And the stories of some of the members here still wow me...

Your will be done Jamal... It's up to you to decide what it is you want.

[fairyfarmgirl]

Jamal:
Consider the magical children of Japan, Russia, here in the USA what about the Findhorn Gardens? The Universe is magical as it is here.

In any situation you can choose to see it as darkness and become that dark place or you can choose to see darkness, acknowledge it and be a Light unto the Dark.

This Earth is more Magical than you have given yourself freedom to imagine. Such a shame to see it as mundane, irrelevant to your high existence. The problem with lofty views is it lends itself toward nose bleeds. Come down to Earth. Integrate with this amazing place and see the joy of creating with others.

For so long I wandered the Earth feeling I had no place to be here. I was an renunciate I truly believed I did not belong here. Then one day--- a terrible bad no good day when I felt all hope was lost and I was to forever be in this hell and surrounded by these barabaric earthlings I surrendered to my fate. And much to my surprise, An Angel appeared and then Friends from the Sky (old old friends). I found my way again and learned there were others like me. So I began to reach out. I began to focus on similarities instead of differences. I began to live again.

Live life fully with joy and find the joy in each moment... it is there. Being in Joy means being in a state of love regardless of outer manifestation. The out there matters not it is only in the heart that matters so.

fairyfarmgirl

[Bruno]

I have a name for people like you.. It's Renunciate. You will get exactly what you ask for. And at this rate that will be very little. So please humor me... Ask for the world.

You´re right Ali, Turtle is rejecting the world, but in a negative way.
Whatever is not done with love, won´t end with love.

The saying is true, "be careful what you wish for, ´cause you just might get it.", meaning that if world-renunciation is sought in an unkind basis, that´s what we would get after physical death - unkind exclusiveness (even in non-3D planes there is unkind exclusiveness, the soul locked up in itself, like the kabbalistic concept of kelipot, shells or husks).

There is an interesting article on 'lovingkind-renunciation' in this web-page, What is a Swami?

It concerns all spiritualists and mystics anyway (in my view).

Bruno

---

To ilustrate this i´ve said,

(even in non-3D planes there is unkind exclusiveness, the soul locked up in itself, like the kabbalistic concept of kelipot, shells or husks).

have you watched the episode of the 'Mental' tv series entitled "Book of Judges", where the patient (David Carradine) rejects the world and ends up locked inside himself?

It´s a good representation of what could happen with an unkind world-renunciation, and of the 'spiritual' shell.

Here´s the link: Mental Episodes. Click on "Book of Judges" episode.

Bruno

[Bruno]

Maybe Turtle is not being totally 'negative' about his feelings on life-on-earth, but he ain´t totally 'positive' either.

These souls (if we can call them that) that i´ve mentioned being trapped in a 'shell', were once human beings and by rejecting the world became (only subjectively) separate from it. They are one with life in the sense that they affect human beings who are drawn to negative thoughts and feelings, meaning that there´s an interaction, albeit a negative one, which ultimately fulfills the goal of Redemption (the coming back to the Real Self) in the sense that this is necessary for us to chosse between Ligth and Darkness, Love and un-love.

Their Higher Selves no longer enliven them, for they (the shells) are no longer adequate vessels to vehicle Their Consciousness (Light, Love whatever), thus they 'feed' on humans emotional negativity.
They are the legendary vampires, but they cannot be called 'alive' - without the irradtation with which our Higher Selves enliven our bodies and souls, they would cease their activity for they are already dead. They depend solely on our 'emotional' batteries, for from their Higher Selves they no longer get any sustenance.

I´m not saying that this is the case with you, Turtle, but it does exist.

It happened to me in the past, when i, mistaking a shell for my Higher Self, drawed it down to this plane. The scare was so great that it was worth the lesson:

"Watch your thoughts: They become your words.
Watch your words: They become your actions.
Watch your actions: They become your habits.
Watch your habits: They become your character.
Watch your character: It becomes your destiny."

That is, one should watch one´s thoughts and feelings so that the negative ones don´t become actions, and the negative actions so that they don´t become habits.

This is also the Law of Deservedness, or Attraction (like attracts like).

Bruno

[Turtle]

I know that I am living my life according to what I believe is right and wrong...we all have our moral codes, belief systems, etc. No one has all the answers, because you CAN MAKE YOUR OWN!!! heh. Like whatever Bruno is talking about with vampirism and energy, sorry bro but I read a little bit of the post and immediately felt like it was unimportant to me. Nothing personal, but I don't believe in any of that.

I believe in VERY LITTLE of what Ra and Q'uo have to say.

Just because I want freedom from this place, does not mean I am being attacked by some negative entity or that I am not accepting my reality, or that anything is wrong at all...

I don't know if I was clear before but you have to understand something.

I accept and reject many aspects of this reality, and do not see any negativity in my line of thinking

I accept the beautiful days, the cold breezes in Miami when they come around.

I reject the humid 102 degree heat and the blazing sun when it is around.

I accept the people that care to listen to what I say and see me as a friend.

I reject the people who think I cut them off in traffic and flip me the bird.

I accept the beautiful planet earth, and this dimension we live in.

I reject the completely obvious paradoxical world we've created on top of this planet, and cannot wait to leave it.


you see...I recognize these paradoxes in my own perception...this is probably why I feel such a need to keep peace in my heart and in my being.
You might want to see me as being negative, and that's fine.

I see myself as being honest with my lot in life, and picking and choosing what is right for me and what is not right for me.

-Jamal

[Ali Quadir]

Like whatever Bruno is talking about with vampirism and energy, sorry bro but I read a little bit of the post and immediately felt like it was unimportant to me. Nothing personal, but I don't believe in any of that.

I would agree... I never judged you as negative. And I don't believe in vampires, psychic or otherwise. I just called you a renunciate. There is no negativity in denying yourself pleasure. It's just hard to live through. Or at least harder than it needs to be.

That's all I accuse you of... Denying yourself pleasure. Which is of course exactly your right and your personal decision. Neither Bruno or I have the right to tell you to do otherwise. And for my part let me assure you I'm just sharing my point of view. I would like you to feel more at home. But not against your own wishes.

If we look behind renunciation there is usually idealism and I believe this to be the case for you. We do not accept a weak variant of that which we see and that which we consider our true goals. Which is essentially the platonic connection with a concept behind the veils of the 3d world. In your case a heaven like world that you remember and identify as your home.

In many ways this is the right thing to do.. If you are in love with a woman and she is unavailable, it'd be stupid to take the next woman that offers herself. Renunciation has it's place. But it needs to be applied with (the magick word) discernment.

There is a tarot card of a man sitting beneath a tree. He has three cups in front of him.. From these he will not drink. The hand of God appears from nowhere and offers him a fourth cup. Which he also will not drink... I try to say that at a certain point what you call your lot in life becomes your choice in life, don't forget


Bruno I do think I understand what you describe when you say you drew down a shell thinking it to be the higher self and got a scare... I got a similar scare once in a way I could describe with the same words. To me too the outcome was positive. But the event was heavy. There are many ways a shell can come into existence. Basically it's human remains in the psychic stream. A soul less mind. Usually quite hungry because they lost their own source. Usually in varying states of dissolving into it's components. All ghost stories are based on these.. I think this is a different topic however and deserves it's own thread.

[Bruno]

I know that I am living my life according to what I believe is right and wrong...we all have our moral codes, belief systems, etc. No one has all the answers, because you CAN MAKE YOUR OWN!!!

You´re already free, see?

heh. Like whatever Bruno is talking about with vampirism and energy, sorry bro but I read a little bit of the post and immediately felt like it was unimportant to me. Nothing personal, but I don't believe in any of that.

It was meant to be a sidenote, not an exact correspondence to your life.

I believe in VERY LITTLE of what Ra and Q'uo have to say.

Just because I want freedom from this place, does not mean I am being attacked by some negative entity or that I am not accepting my reality, or that anything is wrong at all...

I didn´t say you were. I mentioned it only to get at the Law of Attraction issue.

I don't know if I was clear before but you have to understand something.

I accept and reject many aspects of this reality, and do not see any negativity in my line of thinking

I accept the beautiful days, the cold breezes in Miami when they come around.

I reject the humid 102 degree heat and the blazing sun when it is around.

I accept the people that care to listen to what I say and see me as a friend.

I reject the people who think I cut them off in traffic and flip me the bird.

I accept the beautiful planet earth, and this dimension we live in.

I reject the completely obvious paradoxical world we've created on top of this planet, and cannot wait to leave it.

See? That´s where i was geting at, the acceptance and the rejection for Christ's sake!

If we want to know what Unconditional Love is, and adhere to it, we must first acknowledge that It is rejection-free (at least in the sense when rejection equals fear and hatred; when it equals prudence, like when one doesn´t touch a fire because one doesn´t want to get unnecessarily burned, it´s not fear but respect, closer to wisdom. Perhaps it´s the way that the Spirit looks at the 3D plane, not rejecting, but not mixing with it, whereas we find it hard to 'love' all of the 3D´s aspects,and therefore, never seeing through the 'Spirit´s eyes', so to speak, never at peace.)

you see...I recognize these paradoxes in my own perception...this is probably why I feel such a need to keep peace in my heart and in my being.
You might want to see me as being negative, and that's fine.

I see myself as being honest with my lot in life, and picking and choosing what is right for me and what is not right for me.

-Jamal

Good, good. L[/quote]et things in as much as you can, don´t leave anything out. That is (probabily what is called) Wisdom, wouldn´t you agree?

Bruno

[Bruno]

'Psychic vampires' are all around us - they're just people! It comes down to definitions of course. My definition of a vampire - and the term is often used amongst energy workers/healers - is simply someone who tries to get their energy by taking it from another.

No one said they were physical entities that needed to killed with a stake. If I were to take legendary or mythological symbols literally, i would be believing in dragons and cyclopes by now f.f.s...

Maybe we should start a new thread to talk about this, this is not the place to do it. Care to do it Taha?

Bruno

[Sirius]

I think what you may be experiencing turtle is "waiting for the cavalry to arrive" as David Icke words so well. You are not going to leave this place until it has served it's purpose, which I think you know, is not doing so right now with the way you feel.

My feelings on the topic. More developed than beliefs, to say.

Do you think something in 2012 will happen? I would assume you know what I mean but as you said you beleive little of the works of Ra I will take the time to explain it my own way.

In the future we have a 3 way split. depending which branch you go down depends entirely on your polarity. You could swap the word polarity for mindset, disposition. You need to place yourself into 1 of 2 of these 3 branches to leave 3D. Where you say you hate the world I would say you hate this level of reality. The two interlink. The 2 paths I'm on about are the positive and negative. Niether one can be achieved by accident. For those that do not make a defined choice, marked by thier actions in life, they will get left in the 'gray area' where you will be ported off to another 3D reality to try again to realise what it is you are attempting to realise at this very moment. Save yourself some time.

The reason I take time to reply to you is my Dad used to be very similar with you. Very pessemistic sounding, he at the time, and you now say you feel there is nothing wrong wit the path you are walking, and no you are right there is nothing wrong about it, but niether is there much good about it. You are cruising, through the worsening seas of the gray area. These feelings of yours will get worse and worse until you change. This is the universes way of discomforting you from your surroundings, trying to make you brake the attachments in ready for new ones to come.

An idea to make yourself feel better, plant some seeds

I have a lot to say about the emergy vampires, I'll find the thread.

Sometimes it comes down to such a small thing of just Realizing you are already free, it is the way you interpret and perceive this world that determines your feelings on it. Like racism, some people will take offence at 'racism' when there was not even any around. Some people laugh it off and actually see the humour in the jokes, and not the abuse.

Change your perception of the world on the inside, and it will only be natural for it to flow onto the outside. Sounds absurd, but this is the epitemy of everything I know, and I feel alot of people share it. Law of Attraction multiplied.

I wish you luck. It is a seemingly difficult position, but that does not mean you can fix it with alot of bravery against YOURSELF in a short ammount of time.

Love and Light

[Turtle]

The reason I take time to reply to you is my Dad used to be very similar with you. Very pessemistic sounding, he at the time, and you now say you feel there is nothing wrong wit the path you are walking, and no you are right there is nothing wrong about it, but niether is there much good about it. You are cruising, through the worsening seas of the gray area. These feelings of yours will get worse and worse until you change. This is the universes way of discomforting you from your surroundings, trying to make you brake the attachments in ready for new ones to come.

lol, me being pessimistic. I can see how you perceived me to be pessimistic, but I am not. More accurately, I am going through the pain of realizing that this realm of existence is not where I want to be, but where I am nonetheless. I have already accepted my lot in life here, but still feel the desire to leave, because I believe that the next step will be exactly where I want to be....however.....I realized earlier today that it's not so much a different realm that I want to go to, but like some of you mentioned, the separation of my consciousness from my body and more importantly my mind. I was reading up on Buddha's teachings earlier today, and realized why recently in life I have been so actively creating peace in my mind and emotions through meditation so that the days would be easier. Part of the reason was obvious, I desire peace and want to spread vibes of peace on this planet because frankly, we need more of it. However, I just realized that when you are in that state of peace, you are tuning to your consciousness and not your mind. Stilling the mind.

Here's the problem. Perpetuating that freedom and incorporating it into every moment of your existence, so that you are then "watching" your life as you live it, aware of your mind and body being pieces of who you are, but not what you are. I think we all know how it feels to be distracted and grounded back to our minds and bodies, away from that mindfulness that Buddha speaks about in his teachings.

So to kind of summarize where I've come to now...I have just begun the practice of remembering to tune my awareness to the still consciousness that is the foundation of the mind and the body, and to do this as often as I remember to during my daily routine. I do not know if Buddha eventually lived his life in that state consistently, but he was pretty much teaching that that is how you end suffering...you still have problems to deal with and pain to go through, but you no longer suffer through any of it at that point. That is kind of like the holy grail of life lessons for me, to come back to awareness and realize your mind and body do not constitute what you are as a being of existence.

Once this lesson is mastered, I have a feeling that the rest of life will unfold with a speed, grace, and effortlessness that is unsettling to the mind, because we will not have to worry about trying to think through life's problems (threatening the purpose the mind/ego's existence). Instead one can "watch" himself live his life, "watching" his avatar (as I describe avatar, your mind-and-body)....being very much linked to the avatar, but not identifying with it....

aka, Freedom... dammit.

Much love, and godspeed.

-Jamal


*side note...I had to re-edit this post SO MANY times, and as I refined it, I felt myself disconnecting and reconnecting to my mind, almost as if I was going to OBE. I think this is what I am talking about, "watching" yourself live. This is heavy stuff, and now I gotta sleep. Words are very clumsy indeed!*

[Sirius]

I find it very odd, given the 'trouble' of today I can totally relate to what you where meaning. It's new. But, it helps.

I don't really want to be here either really! Isn't that what all of us kind of have in common? Seeking, wandering towards a better place?

Love and Light

[Turtle]

I'm sure there are many people all over the globe, regardless of their beliefs, that wish they could be in a more harmonious version of reality. It's nothing new at all, to look around you in this world and then somehow feel like you could be in a "better" place.

[pluralone]

Ahhhgh. I'd truly like to contribute to this discussion but not sure I can make the words come. Giving it a good effort...

I want to be free from this mind, and this body.

I've been there, and for all I know maybe I'd be there right now if it weren't for this dang state of numbness I've been in lately. When the feeling of wanting to be free from this mind and body - this life, really - was at its strongest, I was pretty miserable... and it had a very negative impact on those closest to me. Back when this feeling was a constant in my life, I didn't have the benefit of spiritual awareness except for a vague understanding that if I took the situation in hand and ended my life, I'd probably just have to come back and experience it all over again until I learned what I needed to learn. While this understanding kept me from doing anything drastic, it didn't help much in any other way, and I was stuck feeling miserable.

Which, I think it's important to note, was not how I viewed my state of mind at the time. I didn't view myself as 'miserable'; I viewed myself as 'realistic', and in many ways I was correct: There are terrible things happening in this world; I lived (and still do) in a socioeconomic bracket well below the poverty level; the living beings on this planet are in pain, at some level, most of the time, with war and poverty and crime and sleazy politicians and family discord and etc etc etc. It's all very real, that pain, and as an empath I felt it deeply.

Despite my best resolve, however, I did finally come to a point where I knew I had to change or die. Initially, I decided on the latter but obviously took the other route when it came down to it.

All said in order to show that I've been there. And it's not like I don't still experience pain in life but there have been some fundamental changes in how I view pain and how I deal with it. Perhaps the largest change, however, has been in that I've learned how to feel happy at times, as well, and for the most part, even when life becomes difficult, I've found my central core of balance, which has shown me how to appreciate this life, accept its totality - the happiness and the pain - and be grateful. It can be done.

For me, Buddhism (and many other religious practices) places too much emphasis on escape from this life. I did not come here for the purpose of learning how to leave/ascend/transcend from here. I came here to experience this life as it is. The experiences of this human incarnation are ones I could not have had from any other source, and there were (and still are) things to learn from these experiences. They are golden.

I now know that I will not reincarnate here unless I decide to do so; there's nothing that compelled me to come here except a purpose I gave myself for this life before I came here. There is no karmic cycle that will pull me back even if I were to pull the plug at this point. But I didn't have that understanding back when I was so miserable; perhaps it wasn't even true back then; perhaps what I've learned in the process of finding my inner balance is what made it so.

Forgive my rambling. Trying to find the balance between sharing and offering understanding....

So, Turtle/Jamal, I want to ask: if you woke up, still in this life, tomorrow and felt good about being here, what would have changed? Is there any way this life could feel acceptable to you? Are there any circumstances under which you would feel gratitude for this life?
plur

[xlsander]

this sounds quite matching to Eckhart Tolle's approach to me -
I just yesterday saw a video of his seminar back in 2001 already
"flowering of the human consciousness"

and I am now going to start to read or hear (unabridged audio book)
his current work "a new earth"

[3D Sunset]

Hello Turtle, et al. An interesting thread, thank you for starting it. For what it's worth, I'd like to toss in my 2cents on some of Taha's insights.

Perhaps the largest change, however, has been in that I've learned how to feel happy at times, as well, and for the most part, even when life becomes difficult, I've found my central core of balance, which has shown me how to appreciate this life, accept its totality - the happiness and the pain - and be grateful. It can be done.

I agree with you completely. This is, IMHO, one of the foundational tenets of the Law of One (and, indeed is at the core of all spiritual practices), it is what Ra and those at L/L Research call "finding the love in the moment". When we look at events in our lives from the position of the ego (and hence from the perspective of separation), it is so damn easy (and so predictably human) to feel that someone or something else is "doing something to us". The same events, when viewed from the perspective of oneness, lose their sharp edges fairly easily. I am a strong proponent of taking personal responsibility for the environment in which I live and the events that "happen" in my life. Once you take ownership of the difficulties, it is much easier to approach the resulting mess with the proper attitude to clean it up. When something "bad" happens, this is the time to look and say "where is the love in this moment", or "what lesson have I offered myself, here". The separate human bemoans their bad luck. The spiritual seeker is always digging for (and finding) the pony in the pile of manure.

For me, Buddhism (and many other religious practices) places too much emphasis on escape from this life. I did not come here for the purpose of learning how to leave/ascend/transcend from here. I came here to experience this life as it is. The experiences of this human incarnation are ones I could not have had from any other source, and there were (and still are) things to learn from these experiences. They are golden.

This is a fascinating subject to me. Is the purpose of this life ultimately to transcend it, or is it rather to experience it fully? One could certainly argue that the two goals are opposite sides of the same coin, but I look at it from a slightly different perspective. This is, I think one of the key differences between a wanderer's incarnation and that of a native 3D soul. Where I would normally argue that a wanderer's status is not pertinent at all once they have incarnated into 3D, I do recognize that the purpose for the incarnations is different for a wanderer than for a native soul. The native soul is incarnating for the expressed purpose of polarizing with sufficient strength to transcend 3D existence, that is to say, to choose, polarize, and graduate to 4D. The wanderer, on the other hand, incarnates primarily for the purpose of radiating love/light and easing the transition of the planetary consciousness into 4D, but also for the purpose of experiencing certain catalysts, specific to them, that can allow them to much more quickly and effectively learn certain lessons than they could in their native dimension. So to me Taha, the perspective you have expressed is accurate with respect to yourself, the wanderer, but I also have no problem with spiritual teachings that aim toward transcendence.

I now know that I will not reincarnate here unless I decide to do so; there's nothing that compelled me to come here except a purpose I gave myself for this life before I came here. There is no karmic cycle that will pull me back even if I were to pull the plug at this point. But I didn't have that understanding back when I was so miserable; perhaps it wasn't even true back then; perhaps what I've learned in the process of finding my inner balance is what made it so.

Congratulations, Taha. This is a profound statement, and one I'm sure you don't make lightly, but it is hopefully accurate for all wanderers. I look at karma a little differently than most. To me Karma is simply attachment. And those things to which we are attached must recur in our lives. This can be both "good" and "bad" things. But attachment to either can draw us back into 3D existence. To paraphrase the Lord's prayer, to ultimately break your karmic bonds, you must forgive your delights as well as your trespasses, and those that trespass against you.

So, Turtle/Jamal, I want to ask: if you woke up, still in this life, tomorrow and felt good about being here, what would have changed? Is there any way this life could feel acceptable to you? Are there any circumstances under which you would feel gratitude for this life?

I second Taha's question. Carla has often spoken of her love of the mundane, tedious, rhythms that make up a life here in 3D. I think this is both a keen insight and a wonderful example of finding the love in the moment. When doing the dishes, unstopping the toilet, preparing the meal, driving to work, writing the report, redirecting the child, or pulling the weeds, one can look at the tasks as "chores we must do" or "opportunities to experience this magical existence". The tasks are the same, it's simply the mindset that changes. And once we are proficient in finding the love in our mundane lives, it is much easier then to find the love in our more challenging moments. Is not feeling gratitude for this life is as easy as simply choosing to do so?

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[Turtle]

I must say, a lot of great thoughts have come to this thread.

It's funny how the real learning for me has transpired outside of this forum, in my day to day activities. Here's where I stand now..

I realize my conscious mind, if left to absorb and process information to it's desire, will eventually want to be free of having to experience this realm (this has happened several times in my life). I've come to terms with just how crucial it is for my mental/spiritual health, to just be in the moment, as often as I can remember to.

My body is seemingly tuned to remind me to be in the moment, since just about every single joint in my body, including my spine, needs to be cracked very often during the day.

So the freedom "I" want, is a freedom part of me wants...the immature/impatient part of me. I've come to respect that side of me, and not focus on it's desires at the same time. I do agree with pluralone's opinion, that I am here to experience this realm, not transcend it...especially since several OBE's have come and gone for me, and they all seemed to be more fun vacations than anything else, not any real learning or progress at all in those moments, lol.

Godspeed in all your endeavors.

-Jamal

[pluralone]

I've mentioned here and there of having OBEs and travelling all over in what people call 'light ships' but which are simply reality bubbles which move where you want, not machines. However, in all my journeys all I learned was to remember who I am and who my light companions are, but gained no great insights into life which helped me become an uber-being in this world. (In fact, those who aspire to that almost always have money and sex as their goal, I find).

I don't know how to say this other than to preface with, I intend no offense (which is usually a good indicator that what follows could cause offense anyway), but I just have to say those seem to me like terribly judgmental statements, Taha. That your experience of light ships differs from those of others merely means the ones you've used are not machines. I've spoken with enough very aware folks whose experience of light ships is that they are, in fact, machines to have come to the conclusion that the definition of "light ship" can vary dramatically from one rider to the next... and still be equally valid descriptions.

The other statement? I just don't understand why... Is it necessary, really, to support one's own understanding by making negative comparisons with others?

Yes, we are free to express ourselves here as we are so compelled, and I'm not writing this for the purpose of censorship. I have no expectations or recommendations regarding what 'should' be done about it; I don't believe anything should be done, per se. The statements are what they are, and I'm not saying you 'shouldn't' have made them. I just wanted to share my feelings with no more intent than to get the weight off my chest.
plur

---

I feel that when enough people on this world wake up and realise that genuine love and peace can't be dictated to the masses, that control just doesn't work well, then a 'top heavy' point will be reached which will slowly but surely tip consensus reality into a new way of being.

This is my understanding as well -- not that it will happen, necessarily, but that the opportunity for this to occur has arisen again during the current transitional phase this physical universe is going through. Whether it will happen this time or not may still be a bit up in the air, but I do believe it could, and I work from a perspective that assumes it will.

One may criticize this approach as being error-prone, as it includes my own assessment and judgment as to what is warranted...

In regards to energetic (as opposed to material or physical) support and healing work, in acknowledgment that just because something seems to need doing doesn't mean that's really what's needed, and that I cannot possibly perceive the Big Picture from here, I preface my energy work with "If it will promote the highest good..." Not saying everyone should function that way; it's just how I approach the question of whether or not I'm truly doing the right thing.

Rather than asking what is the point of others' pain, torment and horror, why not ask what is the point of our own? Do we not provide ourselves these challenges in order to grow? As a parent, I find myself constantly struggling with the instinct to protect my children from all possible pains and sorrows. But how are they to grow without experiencing these challenges and persevering? Does not my higher self feel the same about me? Don't I need to encounter and overcome challenges in order to grow?

Oh man, Sunset, I so hear that. I used to really stress over the stoopid decisions my kids have made, but then - as you said - I realized they need to make their own mistakes because mistakes are great opportunities for personal evolution. At times I'll offer feedback regarding decisions when it seems warranted, but I tell them, "I'm only going to say this once," offer my opinion, and conclude with assurances that I understand they will make the right decisions for themselves and that I will support their decisions - and promise not to say "I told you so" if they make mistakes. Keeps the lines of communication open, with them knowing I'm not going to judge them negatively.
plur

[pluralone]

And I speak here with some experience of knowing people who have been mislead and abused in both financial and sexual terms.

Yikes! That just sounds so awful. In the more standard religious settings to which I've been exposed (also sounds awful, but I'm in a hurry right now), the 'leaders' have been more seduced by the power and control they have over their congregations than by money or sex. Just goes to show how little experience I've had with alternative spiritual groups. Once I left religion behind, there was just no way I'd seek spiritual information from another human being, I don't care who they claim to speak for; they may have a really good handle on spiritual reality, but bottom line I believe one can only speak for oneself when it comes to spiritual truth.

As for flaming you in private, dear Taha - that is simply not my nature. Heated debate where people get all hot and sometimes rude in making their points leaves my chest feeling heavy. I prefer the kindnesses we exchange in the forum!

Signing out now! Much love,
plur

[pluralone]

You say "playful", I say "po-tah-toe"!
hee