Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
10-22-2012, 02:09 PM,
#91
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
(10-22-2012, 08:50 AM)zenmaster Wrote:  
(10-22-2012, 02:03 AM)GentleReckoning Wrote:  I feel like people here don't appreciate their STS brethren like they should.
How could you possibly say that after all the seemingly well considered discussions on the subject?

I don't necessarily equate discussion with appreciation.
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Patrick, βαθμιαίος
10-22-2012, 02:20 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-22-2012, 02:27 PM by Tenet Nosce.)
#92
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
(10-18-2012, 01:08 PM)Spaced Wrote:  I think this Nietzsche quote applies here. "Objection, evasion, joyous distrust, and love of irony are signs of health. Everything absolute belongs to pathology."

He also said:

"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed.”

(10-22-2012, 01:50 PM)Patrick Wrote:  Indeed I have been stepping up my efforts for healing Carla by a great margin lately. All my chakras were warm and well felt. So of course, this attracts these little friends.

Have you informed her of this? I wonder: What is your take on the "free will" aspects of consciously directing energy at an other-self without their knowledge and/or consent?
We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.
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Parsons
10-22-2012, 03:00 PM,
#93
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
(10-22-2012, 02:20 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  ...
(10-22-2012, 01:50 PM)Patrick Wrote:  Indeed I have been stepping up my efforts for healing Carla by a great margin lately. All my chakras were warm and well felt. So of course, this attracts these little friends.

Have you informed her of this? I wonder: What is your take on the "free will" aspects of consciously directing energy at an other-self without their knowledge and/or consent?

I do not believe that it is possible to heal someone without their consent since only the Self can heal the Self. The way I envision my working is that if this energy is not accepted by her (by her Higher-Self in this instance) I wish it to go anywhere it might be requested instead.

"You are not here to fix it... You are here to love it." ~ Q'uo
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Aaron, Ankh, Ruth, xise, βαθμιαίος
10-22-2012, 06:53 PM,
#94
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
(10-19-2012, 02:37 PM)Patrick Wrote:  1.1

We are ready to exchange information now. Like you, we also have a density. We are not of the 4th density, the density of Love. We are not of the 5th density, the density of Light. We are of the 6th density, the density of Unity. In our density, duality is no more, everything is simple once again and we are aware of the illusion behind the seeming paradoxes. We are One. Our nature is Unity and our purpose is United.

We have been with you a long time and we have attempted many times to bring the message of Unity to humans with partial success. We have been with you in the flesh. We have seen your faces directly from within your illusion. As opposed to most other friendly alien races. We concluded from this experience that it was not a very effective way of helping humans. It remains our wish to help humanity by bringing the message of Unity in some form and by attempting to smooth out the misunderstandings that resulted from our previous efforts. Until all humans are finished with 3rd density lessons, not being a part of time ourselves, we will continue this service.

Did we share enough information with you to clarify who we are and why we are here ?

1.6

Imagine that the Universe has no beginning and no ending, we are unaware of any evidence to the contrary. But we do have evidence to the fact that you are infinite, as is your quest for Truth and your awareness of the Creation.

Infinity cannot be divided, in order to be meaningful infinity must be understood as unity. The Creator being Infinite has to be united. Using your currently chosen limitations of the viewpoint, you can only be aware of simple examples of unity. Like all colors being united in one white light.

In reality, nothing is right or wrong. Duality is not real and you will become aware of this once you come out of the game you are currently playing. Playing this game was never a requirement. You made the choice of playing this game, otherwise you would instantly be aware of absolutely All There Is. We do not mean to say that you would merely know everything. You would be aware that you are everything, everyone, every feelings and every happenings. Without currently being aware of it, you still ever remain unity. You are infinite. You are the force behind the Creation and the Creation itself. You simply are. That is the meaning behind the words "the Law of One".

Would you like us to share more information about unity ?

I enjoyed and loved reading this. Thank you, Patrick! =)
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A guiding key question for one who seeks the heart of existence is: "Where is the love in this moment? "
- Q'uo 20090203
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10-22-2012, 07:08 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-22-2012, 07:10 PM by Spaced.)
#95
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
If we are discussing the Choice still I wouldn't mind adding my own thoughts on the matter. I'm not trying to disagree with anyone's positions or force my own upon anyone, so I hope I don't come across that way. Smile

I see the Choice being simply "Who do you want to be?"

The Universe has given us this marvellous toy known as free will and has just let us loose on this planet to see what we can come up with. We experiment, we see what works for us and we discard the rest. It's a long process, spanning countless lives during which we explore and play and generate experiences which we then use to fine tune our Choice. We see that each minor choice we make which resonates with that true self we seek has it's opposite, not chosen but now potentiated, to borrow Ra's term. These echos then form a shadow, broadly symmetrical and darkly resonant with our true self. We are drawn then between two poles the positive, uniting force which we call Love and the negative, separating force which we call Fear. Those who gravitate to either end of the spectrum will have high enough polarization to move up to the next density. In the higher densities you still carry your shadow with you meaning it would be a very volatile situation if you hadn't chosen by our own free will upon a self who was so strongly polarized to either end of the Love/Fear spectrum that they saw the opposite way of life as impossible.
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Patrick, βαθμιαίος
10-22-2012, 08:00 PM,
#96
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
As I read the Ra Material, it's certainly possible (and necessary) to choose polarities. For instance, "The hopeful result is, as you say, the original choice of polarity."

I also agree with Patrick that "Ra stated that entities can and do change their polarities." Example, "The further an entity has, what you would call, polarized, the more easily this entity may change polarity, for the more power and awareness the entity will have." Also, I feel that I, personally, could polarize negatively if I chose. Undecided

However, Tenet, I do think you make a good point that the archetype of The Choice may well have more to do with choosing to polarize than with choosing a polarity. After all, we can tell ourselves that we mean to be positive (or negative), but unless we actually polarize in one direction or the other we won't be harvestable.

(10-21-2012, 09:41 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  Yes, exactly! Those of the negative polarity simply are who they are. They are not really making a "choice" to be "bad guys". There was a negative seed planted in the soil of human 3D experience, and it grew into a negative plant.

I think your understanding of free will may be different than mine. But I'm curious, what is the negative seed you're thinking of?
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10-22-2012, 11:47 PM,
#97
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
(10-22-2012, 02:09 PM)GentleReckoning Wrote:  
(10-22-2012, 08:50 AM)zenmaster Wrote:  
(10-22-2012, 02:03 AM)GentleReckoning Wrote:  I feel like people here don't appreciate their STS brethren like they should.
How could you possibly say that after all the seemingly well considered discussions on the subject?
I don't necessarily equate discussion with appreciation.
If you don't read the forums, in what manner do you experience the lack of appreciation of STS here?
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10-23-2012, 04:37 AM,
#98
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
An objective truth can not be an observation, therefore it is irrelevant. AN objective truth is so regardless of all that is. That is the ONE. This is circular, information/ perception many-ness cannot dive into that. Anathema. Paradox. In another words there is no truth as a separate thing from consciousness and if you are conscious you are subjective.

The quest for a definitive answer is pointless, it just doesn't happen and thought arrives at paradox. That is why proof of things is illusion, empirical science is not rooted in reality it just a working context for a snapshot in the unknowable infinite.
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10-23-2012, 08:37 AM,
#99
Thumbs Up  RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
(10-23-2012, 04:37 AM)drifting pages Wrote:  An objective truth can not be an observation, therefore it is irrelevant. AN objective truth is so regardless of all that is. That is the ONE. This is circular, information/ perception many-ness cannot dive into that. Anathema. Paradox. In another words there is no truth as a separate thing from consciousness and if you are conscious you are subjective.

The quest for a definitive answer is pointless, it just doesn't happen and thought arrives at paradox. That is why proof of things is illusion, empirical science is not rooted in reality it just a working context for a snapshot in the unknowable infinite.

Well said !

"You are not here to fix it... You are here to love it." ~ Q'uo
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10-23-2012, 01:11 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-23-2012, 01:42 PM by Tenet Nosce.)
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
(10-22-2012, 08:00 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:  As I read the Ra Material, it's certainly possible (and necessary) to choose polarities. For instance, "The hopeful result is, as you say, the original choice of polarity."

I am truly enjoying this discussion. Thanks for being here. Smile

But we cannot continue if you keep using words attached to a definition which implicitly supports your own view. That is circular reasoning. If you want to keep debating, we need noncircular definitions of terms. I understand this might be difficult.

Take a closer look at the quote you used. It says, "the original choice of polarity". That means, to choose polarization. Polarization or nonpolarization. That is the choice at this point. But it is not "The Choice" itself, merely the prelude to "The Choice".

It does NOT mean, as you are saying, to choose between the positive and negative path of polarization. You are reading that into the quote.

Quote:I also agree with Patrick that "Ra stated that entities can and do change their polarities." Example, "The further an entity has, what you would call, polarized, the more easily this entity may change polarity, for the more power and awareness the entity will have."

You and Patrick are both assuming that a certain idea or notion is true, which I am calling into question. Then, in order to "prove" your point, you are simply restating your position over and over again. Then, when I demonstrate that the material does not say what you think it says, you just repeat your interpretation again. This won't get us anywhere.

What I am saying is that "The Choice" becomes available as a result of polarization. Polarization is what makes "The Choice" possible. Can you find anything in the material to refute this notion? Because I couldn't find it.

Look here:

78.24 Wrote:Ra: I am Ra. The purpose of polarity is to develop the potential to do work. This is the great characteristic of those, shall we say, experiments which have evolved since the concept of The Choice was appreciated. Work is done far more efficiently and with greater purity, intensity, and variety by the voluntary searching of mind/body/spirit complexes for the lessons of third and fourth densities. The action of fifth density is, viewed in space/time, the same with or without polarity. However, viewed in time/space, the experiences of wisdom are greatly enlarged and deepened due, again, to the voluntary nature of polarized mind/body/spirit action.

What this means is that polarization results in free will. The more we polarize, the more free will we acquire. (Or should I say reacquire?) If we acquire ENOUGH free will, we may, indeed choose to switch paths of polarization. But that is not "The Choice".

What the material DOES NOT say is that switching polarities results in a loss of the polarization (or free will) thus far acquired. If one switches polarities, they do NOT have to start over at the beginning. You know the material probably better than anybody else. Does it say this?

This misunderstanding is exactly why it is a "surprising" result to so many that an entity is more likely to switch polarities once highly polarized, rather than earlier on in their journey. If you understand what Ra is saying, there is no surprise with this result. It makes perfect sense.

Quote:However, Tenet, I do think you make a good point that the archetype of The Choice may well have more to do with choosing to polarize than with choosing a polarity.

Thank you! So, other than the fact that accepting this point might mean abandoning a long-held notion which has sort of become dogma- if I may use that word- do you actually have a problem with the point itself? Can you think of any quotes which refute this point?

Quote:After all, we can tell ourselves that we mean to be positive (or negative), but unless we actually polarize in one direction or the other we won't be harvestable.

βαθμιαίος, I'm fairly sure you have polarized on the positive path. Smile Perhaps even gained enough polarity to be able to switch! But you are exactly right, if we don't polarize we are not harvestable.

What does this mean? Think about it closely. Because according to the schema you are positing, and which has become generally accepted, our free will is gradually reduced from the moment we embark down a path of polarity, to the point that we are harvested.

Besides not making much sense, this is not what the material says. To the contrary, it says we incrementally acquire free will through the process of polarization. Once we become polarized enough, we make contact with that which is not polarized. This is called intelligent infinity. Just like if a magnet gets polarized enough, it will attract a nonpolarized piece of metal from across the room.

Upon contact with intelligent infinity, our free will becomes fully actualized. This is represented to us by "The Choice". And once we make "The Choice" it matters not by which path we polarized. Thus,

52.6 Wrote:There are patent differences between the polarities but no difference whatsoever in the completion of the knowledge of the self necessary to accomplish this discipline.

Surely, at the very least, you must agree that the amount of free will available to us upon contact with intelligent infinity is much GREATER than when we begin down a path of polarization. No?

(10-21-2012, 09:41 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  I think your understanding of free will may be different than mine. But I'm curious, what is the negative seed you're thinking of?

It's just the inherent bias present in the personality. On the other side of the veil, we have the soul which "programs" the life to be experienced. On this side of the veil, we are the ones thus programmed. This is not free will, but the antithesis of it. If we wish to acquire free will, we must grow in awareness of "Who We Are", i.e. polarize. If we become sufficiently polarized, then we might be able to start writing our own script. But not until then.
We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.
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Patrick
10-23-2012, 01:41 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-23-2012, 01:42 PM by Patrick.)
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
(10-23-2012, 01:11 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  ...
What I am saying is that "The Choice" becomes available as a result of polarization. Polarization is what makes "The Choice" possible. Can you find anything in the material to refute this notion? Because I couldn't find it.
...
What this means is that polarization results in free will. The more we polarize, the more free will we acquire. (Or should I say reacquire?) If we acquire ENOUGH free will, we may, indeed choose to switch paths of polarization. But that is not "The Choice".

Ok so you are saying that archetype number 22 (The Choice) is not the choice of polarities ?

"What this means is that polarization results in free will."

It's interesting that you say this.


(10-23-2012, 01:11 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Quote:However, Tenet, I do think you make a good point that the archetype of The Choice may well have more to do with choosing to polarize than with choosing a polarity.

Thank you! So, other than the fact that accepting this point might mean abandoning a long-held notion which has sort of become dogma- if I may use that word- do you actually have a problem with the point itself? Can you think of any quotes which refute this point?

"The Choice may well have more to do with choosing to polarize than with choosing a polarity"

Ra did say that this is how it was prior to the veiling. But now that we have the veil, on top of choosing to polarize or not, we also have the choice of the polarity, don't you think ?


(10-23-2012, 01:11 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  ...
What does this mean? Think about it closely. Because according to the schema you are positing, and which has become generally accepted, our free will is gradually reduced from the moment we embark down a path of polarity, to the point that we are harvested...

You've lost me here. I don't understand how you reached that conclusion? (even with what you said in the rest of your post)


(10-23-2012, 01:11 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  ...
Quote:I think your understanding of free will may be different than mine. But I'm curious, what is the negative seed you're thinking of?

It's just the inherent bias present in the personality. On the other side of the veil, we have the soul which "programs" the life to be experienced. On this side of the veil, we are the ones thus programmed. This is not free will, but the antithesis of it. If we wish to acquire free will, we must grow in awareness of "Who We Are", i.e. polarize. If we become sufficiently polarized, then we might be able to start writing our own script. But not until then.

I thought it was our awareness of the spiritual nature of our reality (or illusion) that unlocked our ability to decide things prior to incarnation.

"You are not here to fix it... You are here to love it." ~ Q'uo
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10-23-2012, 02:02 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-23-2012, 02:49 PM by Tenet Nosce.)
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
(10-23-2012, 01:41 PM)Patrick Wrote:  Ok so you are saying that archetype number 22 (The Choice) is not the choice of polarities ?

Correct. If it were, why would Ra have placed it at the end of the deck?

Quote:Ra did say that this is how it was prior to the veiling.

Where did Ra say this?

Quote:But now that we have the veil, on top of choosing to polarize or not, we also have the choice of the polarity, don't you think ?

Perhaps. Probably we do. And most of the those here. But this is because we are already polarized enough to have acquired that choice. Yes, you or I can sit here and contemplate what it means to polarize negatively. We can comprehend the differences of the two paths, and make some sort of conscious decision about them.

But we must realize, those who are embarking on the path of polarization have -no idea- what they are doing. They're pretty much totally unconscious. How is this making a choice, much less a grand exercise of free will?

(10-23-2012, 01:11 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  ...
What does this mean? Think about it closely. Because according to the schema you are positing, and which has become generally accepted, our free will is gradually reduced from the moment we embark down a path of polarity, to the point that we are harvested...

Patrick Wrote:You've lost me here. I don't understand how you reached that conclusion? (even with what you said in the rest of your post)

If "The Choice" occurs at the beginning of the path, then the experiences which follow contain progressively less free will. If we've already made "The Choice", then our entire path of polarization has merely been the inevitable result of this.

If this were true, then how could one switch polarity? It doesn't make any sense. Which is why so many are confused.

I get the idea. It says we make "The Choice" to polarize either positively or negatively. But then "The Choice" is meaningless. Because we keep having to make it over and over and over and over again.

I understand the response is... well making "The Choice" over and over and over again is what builds polarization. Yes... but then what?

If we have already made "The Choice" then what is the point of going through the experience? If it works that way, then at the moment we made "The Choice" we should have popped out of time/space in the realization that this distortion is not in any case necessary.

Finally, if all this deductive logic fails at convincing anybody, or if all the quotes are just adding to the confusion, then just go back to the picture.

Look at the image of "The Choice" and tell me where you see this story about deciding between the polarities over and over again in the picture. Because I just don't see it. Which means, I am blinder than I thought. Big Grin

Quote:I thought it was our awareness of the spiritual nature of our reality (or illusion) that unlocked our ability to decide things prior to incarnation.

Sure. But we don't get to just willy-nilly decide to change what was decided prior to incarnation. Thus our free will is limited by these constraints.
We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.
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10-23-2012, 03:14 PM,
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
(10-23-2012, 02:02 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Quote:Ra did say that this is how it was prior to the veiling.

Where did Ra say this?

Quote:77.19 Questioner: Do the Logoi that choose this type of evolution choose both the service-to-self and the service-to-others path for different Logoi, or do they choose just one of the paths?

Ra: I am Ra. Those, what you would call, early Logoi which chose lack-of-free-will foundations, to all extents with no exceptions, founded Logoi of the service-to-others path. The, shall we say, saga of polarity, its consequences and limits, were unimagined until experienced.

78.14 Questioner: But, in doing this, there was at the center of the galaxy, the lack of knowledge or the lack of concept of possiblity of extending the first distortion, so as to allow for what we have experienced as polarity. Was there any concept of polarity carried through from the previous octave in the sense of service-to-others or service-to-self polarity?

Ra: I am Ra. There was polarity in the sense of the mover and the moved. There was no polarity in the sense of service to self and service to others.

82.26 Questioner: Before the veil, during the review of the incarnation, were the entities at that time aware that what they were trying to do was sufficiently polarize for graduation?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

82.27 Questioner: Then I am assuming that this awareness was somehow reduced as they went into the yellow ray third-density incarnative state even though there was no veil. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is distinctly incorrect.

82.28 Questioner: OK. This is the central important point. It seems to me that if polarization was the obvious thing that more effort would have been put forward to polarize. Let me see if I can state this differently. Before the veil there was an awareness of the need for polarization towards service to others in third density by all entities, whether incarnate in third-density, yellow-ray bodies or in between incarnations. I assume, then, that the condition of which we earlier spoke, one of wealth you might say, was present through the entire spectrum of experience whether it might be between incarnations or during incarnations and the entities just simply could not manifest the desire to create this polarization necessary for graduation. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. You begin to grasp the situation. Let us continue the metaphor of the schooling but consider the scholar as being an entity in your younger years of the schooling process. The entity is fed, clothed, and protected regardless of whether or not the schoolwork is accomplished. Therefore, the entity does not do the homework but rather enjoys playtime, mealtime, and vacation. It is not until there is a reason to wish to excel that most entities will attempt to excel.

82.29 Questioner: You have stated in a much earlier session that it is necessary to polarize more than 50% service to others to be harvestable fourth-density positive. Was this condition the same at the time before the veil?

Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the last full query of this working.

The query is not answered easily, for the concept of service to self did not hold sway previous to what we have been calling the veiling process. The necessity for graduation to fourth density is an ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator. In your own terms at your space/time nexus this ability may be measured by your previously stated percentages of service.

Prior to the veiling process the measurement would be that of an entity walking up a set of your stairs, each of which was imbued with a certain quality of light. The stair upon which an entity stopped would be either third-density light or fourth-density light. Between the two stairs lies the threshold. To cross that threshold is difficult. There is resistance at the edge, shall we say, of each density. The faculty of faith or will needs to be understood, nourished, and developed in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary of third density. Those entities which do not do their homework, be they ever so amiable, shall not cross. It was this situation which faced the Logoi prior to the veiling process being introduced into the experiential continuum of third density.

May we ask if there are any brief queries at this working?

My understanding of this is that before the veil, there was only STO or stagnation. 3d harvest was still about polarizing, but since the only choice of polarity was STO, you could either polarize or not.

What is your understanding of these quotes ?

"You are not here to fix it... You are here to love it." ~ Q'uo
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Tenet Nosce
10-23-2012, 03:20 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-23-2012, 03:41 PM by Tenet Nosce.)
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
93.3 Wrote:It is unlikely that there is a more pithy or eloquent description of the polarities of third density than service to others and service to self due to the nature of the mind/body/spirit complexes’ distortions towards perceiving concepts relating to philosophy in terms of ethics or activity.

What Ra says here is, given the propensity [of L/L Research and other humans] to distortion toward "ethics" or "activity", it is unlikely to give a more pithy or eloquent description of the polarities than "STO" and "STS".

Quote:However, we might consider the polarities using slightly variant terms. In this way a possible enrichment of insight might be achieved for some.

However, we, those of Ra, who are not prone to such distortions, might consider some variant terms. Vis-à-vis: the magnet.

Quote:One might consider the polarities with the literal nature enjoyed by the physical polarity of the magnet. The negative and positive, with their electrical characteristics, may be seen to be just as in the physical sense. It is to be noted in this context that it is quite impossible to judge the polarity of an act or an entity, just as it is impossible to judge the relative goodness of the negative and positive poles of the magnet.

"it is quite impossible to judge the polarity of an act or an entity, just as it is impossible to judge the relative goodness of the negative and positive poles of the magnet."

This really is quite as plain as day. I don't even see how anything could possibly be read into this quote. And yet so many discussions revolve around attempting just this kind of judgement.

Quote:Another method of viewing polarities might involve the concept of radiation/absorption. That which is positive is radiant; that which is negative is absorbent.

Or, if we don't prefer the magnet analogy, try radiation and absorption. Same principle applies.

The confusion inherent with "STO" and "STS" then continues with the assumption that all entities are 100% polarized to begin with.

That is to say, a given entity is "51% STO AND 49% STS" or "95% STS AND 5% STO". But again, this conception bears no meaning. What is the point, if all entities are already 100% polarized? It also erroneously assumes that acquiring polarization from one path precludes the acquisition of polarity from the other path. Which is precisely what Ra does NOT say.

We don't start at 100% polarization, perfectly balanced between STS and STO. Right? We start at 0% polarization.

Hence, what they say is that an entity must be 51% polarized to graduate (from third density) on the positive path, and 95% polarized to graduate on the negative path.

Either path gains polarity through identification with the Law of One. Those on the positive path grow through identification of self as other (I AM YOU). Those on the negative path grow through identification of other as self (YOU ARE ME). Because of certain inherent difficulties pertaining to the negative path, it requires significantly more polarization to graduate upon it.

It really has little to do with ethics. Or even activity. As Ra so much as clearly stated.
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Patrick
10-23-2012, 07:02 PM,
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
(10-23-2012, 03:20 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
93.3 Wrote:It is unlikely that there is a more pithy or eloquent description of the polarities of third density than service to others and service to self due to the nature of the mind/body/spirit complexes’ distortions towards perceiving concepts relating to philosophy in terms of ethics or activity.

What Ra says here is, given the propensity [of L/L Research and other humans] to distortion toward "ethics" or "activity", it is unlikely to give a more pithy or eloquent description of the polarities than "STO" and "STS".

I agree with you here.


(10-23-2012, 03:20 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Quote:However, we might consider the polarities using slightly variant terms. In this way a possible enrichment of insight might be achieved for some.

However, we, those of Ra, who are not prone to such distortions, might consider some variant terms. Vis-à-vis: the magnet.

Quote:One might consider the polarities with the literal nature enjoyed by the physical polarity of the magnet. The negative and positive, with their electrical characteristics, may be seen to be just as in the physical sense. It is to be noted in this context that it is quite impossible to judge the polarity of an act or an entity, just as it is impossible to judge the relative goodness of the negative and positive poles of the magnet.

"it is quite impossible to judge the polarity of an act or an entity, just as it is impossible to judge the relative goodness of the negative and positive poles of the magnet."

This really is quite as plain as day. I don't even see how anything could possibly be read into this quote. And yet so many discussions revolve around attempting just this kind of judgement.

I agree with you here too. Smile


(10-23-2012, 03:20 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  The confusion inherent with "STO" and "STS" then continues with the assumption that all entities are 100% polarized to begin with.

I still don't see this one. Confused Where is this assumption that all entities are 100% polarized to begin with?


(10-23-2012, 03:20 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  That is to say, a given entity is "51% STO AND 49% STS" or "95% STS AND 5% STO". But again, this conception bears no meaning. What is the point, if all entities are already 100% polarized? It also erroneously assumes that acquiring polarization from one path precludes the acquisition of polarity from the other path. Which is precisely what Ra does NOT say.

We don't start at 100% polarization, perfectly balanced between STS and STO. Right? We start at 0% polarization.

Hence, what they say is that an entity must be 51% polarized to graduate (from third density) on the positive path, and 95% polarized to graduate on the negative path.

These numbers are nearly meaningless to me and you already know that I, like you, do not like the terms STS and STO very much.

I think this following paragraph is more helpful to advance the understanding of each other's point of view.


(10-23-2012, 03:20 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  Either path gains polarity through identification with the Law of One. Those on the positive path grow through identification of self as other (I AM YOU). Those on the negative path grow through identification of other as self (YOU ARE ME). Because of certain inherent difficulties pertaining to the negative path, it requires significantly more polarization to graduate upon it.

It really has little to do with ethics. Or even activity. As Ra so much as clearly stated.

Now I am starting to glimpse where our point of view may differ.

Here is how I see this.

Those on the positive path grow through identification of self and "others" as being One and all being the Creator (I AM YOU & YOU ARE ME). Those on the negative path grow through identification of self as being the Creator and others being something else (I AM THE CREATOR, YOU ARE NOT).

Of course, it's not possible to be something else, but it certainly is possible to have an illusion of this. Hence why the negative polarity is completely built on an omission of reality.

"You are not here to fix it... You are here to love it." ~ Q'uo
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Tenet Nosce, βαθμιαίος
10-23-2012, 09:06 PM,
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
Or the negative path could be stated like this.

Those on the negative path grow through identification of self as being the Creator and others as being its creation (I AM THE CREATOR, YOU ARE MY CREATURES).

"You are not here to fix it... You are here to love it." ~ Q'uo
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10-23-2012, 09:11 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-23-2012, 09:24 PM by drifting pages.)
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
The choice is enough purity of thought/intention/vibration do do "work in/with consciousnesses" is that accurate ?

Edit: At least to me this is what i have been doing, more and more finding what or who i am, playing in a vast field of potential and experience.

edit2: LOL oh look i posted at 11:11 pm haha
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10-23-2012, 09:25 PM,
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
(10-23-2012, 09:11 PM)drifting pages Wrote:  The choice is enough purity of thought/intention/vibration do do "work in/with consciousnesses" is that accurate ?

Edit: At least to me this is what i have been doing, more and more finding what or who i am, playing in a vast field of potential and experience.

Yes, ultimately you are harvestable once your awareness has grown enough to be able to enjoy 4th density light/love.

"You are not here to fix it... You are here to love it." ~ Q'uo
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10-24-2012, 03:19 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-24-2012, 03:38 AM by Tenet Nosce.)
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
Patrick Wrote:These numbers are nearly meaningless to me and you already know that I, like you, do not like the terms STS and STO very much.

Well now why do you suppose that is? Because we are truth haters? Or because they are confusion? Big Grin

At the least, we would agree that those terms are the source of much confusion. Therefore, why not dispense with them? What is the attachment to these terms really about?

According to my understanding, there are those who are of the opinion that "STS and STO" are central to Ra's philosophy because they believe "The Choice" is defined in the Ra Material as a decision between "STS and STO". Therefore to take these out of the equation, so to speak, might seem as if we were unraveling the very fabric of existence the "axis upon which the creation turns."

But, as you can see for yourself, Ra never said this:

Quote:76.15 Questioner: Then we have a third density that is, comparatively speaking, the twinkling of an eye, the snap of a finger in time compared to the others. Why is the third density cycled so extremely rapidly compared to the first and second?

Ra: I am Ra. The third density is a choice.

76.16 Questioner: Third density, then, compared to the rest of the densities, all of them, is nothing but a uniquely short period of what we consider to be time and is for the purpose of this choice.

Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is precisely correct. The prelude to choice must encompass the laying of the foundation, the establishment of the illusion and the viability of that which can be made spiritually viable. The remainder of the densities is continuous refining of the choice. This also is greatly lengthened, as you would use the term. The choice is, as you put it, the work of a moment but is the axis upon which the creation turns.

The purpose of third density is to make a choice. Not just any choice, but "The Choice" as represented by the archetype. "The Choice" upon which the creation turns.

IF we are to believe that "The Choice" = "deciding between STS and STO" THEN the entire creation turns upon this choice between the two.

But that doesn't make any sense. Why would the entire creation rest upon making a choice that is essentially meaningless once made? That's not even a real choice. That would more properly be called a decision.

And it's barely even a decision, because self and other are identical, according to the Law of One. That means choosing to polarize is choosing to polarize, the path is irrelevant.

Then the imagery gets even more confused because there is the propensity to layer another meme on top of this which is about "good" and "evil". So there is this assumption among some of us that STO is the "good guys" and STS is the "bad guys".

I am saying no, that's not really what it is at all. But seeing as how L/L Research, and we humans, are prone to thinking in terms of "ethics and activity", I can understand the tendency to view it that way.

But polarization doesn't in reality have so much to do with "ethics and activity" as it does with "alignment and identity". That is why Ra defines it in those terms.

Patrick Wrote:Those on the positive path grow through identification of self and "others" as being One and all being the Creator (I AM YOU & YOU ARE ME).

That reads to me like you are describing polarization on both paths. You have an "&" in there.

Quote:Those on the negative path grow through identification of self as being the Creator and others being something else (I AM THE CREATOR, YOU ARE NOT).

But that isn't possible.

Quote:Of course, it's not possible

Big Grin

See? It doesn't make any sense, and you know it! The attitude you are describing does not result in polarization, whatsoever. That is on neither path. That is the "sinkhole of indifference".

Quote:Hence why the negative polarity is completely built on an omission of reality.

But it isn't. The negative path is a completely valid view of reality. If an entity wishes to have control over another entity, then they must come to realize their true identity. True power cannot be derived from false identity.

19.16 Wrote:The majority of third-density beings is far along the chosen path before realization of that path is conscious.

How can a being make "The Choice" before they are conscious? Doesn't make sense.

46.6 Wrote:The catalyst, and all catalyst, is designed to offer experience. This experience in your density may be loved and accepted or it may be controlled. These are the two paths. When neither path is chosen the catalyst fails in its design and the entity proceeds until catalyst strikes it which causes it to form a bias towards acceptance and love or separation and control. There is no lack of space/time in which this catalyst may work.

The catalyst fails when neither is chosen. Not when one is "incorrectly" chosen over the other.

4.20 Wrote:The Law of One, though beyond the limitations of name, as you call vibratory sound complexes, may be approximated by stating that all things are one, that there is no polarity, no right or wrong, no disharmony, but only identity.

If polarity is an illusion, then how can the entire creation turn upon it?

(10-23-2012, 09:11 PM)drifting pages Wrote:  more and more finding what or who i am

Isn't that exactly how we gain polarity? How could we polarize by coming to believe that we are something we are not? If that were the case, then those in the strongest denial will have gained the most polarity by the end of third density. Damn, and all this time I've been going for authenticity! Big Grin
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Patrick
10-24-2012, 06:15 AM,
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
Would like to hear more updates about your adventure. yay!
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10-24-2012, 10:21 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-24-2012, 11:10 AM by Patrick.)
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
(10-24-2012, 03:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  ...At the least, we would agree that those terms are the source of much confusion. Therefore, why not dispense with them? What is the attachment to these terms really about?

The only attachment I have with these terms is that they are well known LoO terms to name the two polarities and so when speaking with other LoO students, they know what I am talking about.

But yes for the purpose of our discussion here, we would be better the drop them off completely.


(10-24-2012, 03:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  According to my understanding, there are those who are of the opinion that "STS and STO" are central to Ra's philosophy because they believe "The Choice" is defined in the Ra Material as a decision between "STS and STO". Therefore to take these out of the equation, so to speak, might seem as if we were unraveling the very fabric of existence the "axis upon which the creation turns."
...
IF we are to believe that "The Choice" = "deciding between STS and STO" THEN the entire creation turns upon this choice between the two.

But that doesn't make any sense. Why would the entire creation rest upon making a choice that is essentially meaningless once made? That's not even a real choice. That would more properly be called a decision.

The choice made is very real even if it is made based on an illusion. Remember, experience is real.

I believe that the choice of the two polarities is The Choice of 3d. The reason for this belief is simply that 4th density time/space is now completely separate for the two polarities. You either go to 4d positive or 4d negative time/space after 3d harvest. I believe this is why Ra says that The Choice is the axis upon which the creation turns at this time in the evolution of our universe.


(10-24-2012, 03:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  And it's barely even a decision, because self and other are identical, according to the Law of One. That means choosing to polarize is choosing to polarize, the path is irrelevant.

But from the point of view of experience, it's very relevant. Because so much of what you are going to experience in this octave after 3d depends on that choice. The flavor of your experiences are going to be very different indeed based on The Choice of polarity.


(10-24-2012, 03:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  Then the imagery gets even more confused because there is the propensity to layer another meme on top of this which is about "good" and "evil". So there is this assumption among some of us that STO is the "good guys" and STS is the "bad guys".

I am saying no, that's not really what it is at all. But seeing as how L/L Research, and we humans, are prone to thinking in terms of "ethics and activity", I can understand the tendency to view it that way.

But polarization doesn't in reality have so much to do with "ethics and activity" as it does with "alignment and identity". That is why Ra defines it in those terms.

I agree that good and evil has even more baggage than STO and STS. So let's not use any terms that have ethics connotation then for our discussion.


(10-24-2012, 03:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Patrick Wrote:Those on the positive path grow through identification of self and "others" as being One and all being the Creator (I AM YOU & YOU ARE ME).

That reads to me like you are describing polarization on both paths. You have an "&" in there.

The "&" is there to connote awareness of Oneness. There is no such thing as "polarization on both paths".


(10-24-2012, 03:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Quote:Those on the negative path grow through identification of self as being the Creator and others being something else (I AM THE CREATOR, YOU ARE NOT).

But that isn't possible.

Quote:Of course, it's not possible

Big Grin

See? It doesn't make any sense, and you know it! The attitude you are describing does not result in polarization, whatsoever. That is on neither path. That is the "sinkhole of indifference".

I know it yes, but those polarizing negatively do not while they are veiled. I do not agree that this attitude is what the "sinkhole of indifference" is.


(10-24-2012, 03:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Quote:Hence why the negative polarity is completely built on an omission of reality.

But it isn't. The negative path is a completely valid view of reality. If an entity wishes to have control over another entity, then they must come to realize their true identity. True power cannot be derived from false identity.

Because no one is auditing the course, ALL point of views are valid. All are the Creator knowing itself. Yes I know that once those on the negative path realizes their true identity, they are already far along the chosen path.

The Choice is not fully conscious, if it was fully conscious freewill would not operate as efficiently and that would be like it was before the veil. No such thing as control over your other-selves existed before the veil.

A Logos had to create conditions that results in so much confusion/distortions that such an illusion as "other" than the self could arise.


(10-24-2012, 03:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
19.16 Wrote:The majority of third-density beings is far along the chosen path before realization of that path is conscious.

How can a being make "The Choice" before they are conscious? Doesn't make sense.

Here is how (and this is the whole point my friend Smile).

Imagine you are 100% materialistic, this should not be too hard to imagine while incarnated here. Then you can do whatever you like to anyone because life has no purpose anyway and so you might as well live comfortably like an emperor with everyone else serving you IF opportunities to do so presents themselves (choices of what you will do with those opportunities). We all die anyway and we cease to exist so there are no consequences whatsoever. There is also no point to altruism. You actually laugh at how week minded and stupid the concept of altruism is. Since you are strong, it would be stupid not to use your strength to enslave others and live more comfortably. I mean, you only have one life to live, so you are certainly not going to waste your chances of having it easier on the back of others.


(10-24-2012, 03:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
46.6 Wrote:The catalyst, and all catalyst, is designed to offer experience. This experience in your density may be loved and accepted or it may be controlled. These are the two paths. When neither path is chosen the catalyst fails in its design and the entity proceeds until catalyst strikes it which causes it to form a bias towards acceptance and love or separation and control. There is no lack of space/time in which this catalyst may work.

The catalyst fails when neither is chosen. Not when one is "incorrectly" chosen over the other.

Indeed there are no incorrect choices. Even not choosing is perfectly fine.


(10-24-2012, 03:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
4.20 Wrote:The Law of One, though beyond the limitations of name, as you call vibratory sound complexes, may be approximated by stating that all things are one, that there is no polarity, no right or wrong, no disharmony, but only identity.

If polarity is an illusion, then how can the entire creation turn upon it?

It's only the beginning of the negative path that is based on an illusion. The choices that leads to the negative path can only be made while you are deluded.

Do not forget that, once this choice/path is crystallized, even after the veil is removed in 4d, they still choose not to open their heart chakra even while knowing that such a portion of awareness is available. They are aware of the omission that their path is based on, but that is what they chose to experience and they like it this way and all experience is perfectly fine for the Creator.

"You are not here to fix it... You are here to love it." ~ Q'uo
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10-24-2012, 12:58 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-24-2012, 02:26 PM by Tenet Nosce.)
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
(10-24-2012, 10:21 AM)Patrick Wrote:  The only attachment I have with these terms is that they are well known LoO terms to name the two polarities and so when speaking with other LoO students, they know what I am talking about.

But they're not LoO terms. Those are found in 1.1, 1.6, and 4.20. These are L/L terms.

Quote:But yes for the purpose of our discussion here, we would be better the drop them off completely.

They certainly appear to be causing more confusion than clarity.

Quote:The choice made is very real even if it is made based on an illusion. Remember, experience is real.

Experience only becomes real if something real is experienced. The only thing that is real is identity. Thus, if a catalyst causes an entity to experience identity, it results in polarization. If not, it is meaningless.

Quote:I believe that the choice of the two polarities is The Choice of 3d. The reason for this belief is simply that 4th density time/space is now completely separate for the two polarities.

I'm curious to know: How do you explain this quote?

47.6 Wrote:The ability to love, accept, and use a certain intensity of light thus creates the requirement for both positive and negative fourth to fifth harvesting.

Quote:You either go to 4d positive or 4d negative time/space after 3d harvest. I believe this is why Ra says that The Choice is the axis upon which the creation turns at this time in the evolution of our universe.

So the creation turns upon the axis of whether or not entities decide to polarize on the positive or the negative path? Why does it matter so much which path they polarize on?

Quote:But from the point of view of experience, it's very relevant. Because so much of what you are going to experience in this octave after 3d depends on that choice. The flavor of your experiences are going to be very different indeed based on The Choice of polarity.

Quote:77.16 Questioner: What I am really attempting to understand, since all of these twenty-one philosophical bases result in the twenty-second which is The Choice, is why this choice is so important, why the Logos seems to put so much emphasis on this choice, and what function this choice of polarity has, precisely, in the evolution or the experience of that which is created by the Logos?

Ra: I am Ra. The polarization or choosing of each mind/body/spirit is necessary for harvestability from third density. The higher densities do their work due to the polarity gained in this choice.

As you can see, Don is the one who is confused. He even knows he is confused. For, if "all of these twenty-one philosophical bases result in the twenty second, which is "The Choice", then how could it possibly be that one makes "The Choice" BEFORE experiencing the first twenty-one archetypes? Huh

Don is the one that identifies "The Choice" with the "choice of polarity". Ra is doing the best they can with his persistent confusion. After all, they should be experts in confusion around the Law of One by now!

1.1 Wrote:We are old upon your planet and have served with varying degrees of success in transmitting the Law of One, of Unity, of Singleness to your peoples.

Quote:The "&" is there to connote awareness of Oneness. There is no such thing as "polarization on both paths".

Then what would you call it when an entity polarizes on the negative path through fifth density, then switches in sixth?

Quote:All are the Creator knowing itself. Yes I know that once those on the negative path realizes their true identity, they are already far along the chosen path.

So what you are saying is that it is possible for the Creator to know itself through the act of adopting a false identity?

Quote:The Choice is not fully conscious, if it was fully conscious freewill would not operate as efficiently and that would be like it was before the veil.

So the axis upon which Creation turn is a half-conscious, or possibly unconscious, choice? What would be the point of that?

Quote:No such thing as control over your other-selves existed before the veil.

Then, how do those polarizing on the negative path in fourth and fifth densities (where there is no veil) acquire more polarity?

Quote:Here is how (and this is the whole point my friend Smile).

Oh good heavens! No I don't think those people are polarizing at all! Those people aren't even in Ra's deck! LOL They are playing "The Fool", not "The Choice". Tongue

They might unknowingly be developing a bias, yes. For if one of these folks actually got serious about "enslaving others", they would eventually find that is only possible through a gradual accepting of their true identity along the negative path. Which is much more difficult to accomplish here due to the bias of our Logos.

But there is also a chance that, upon realization of what "enslaving others" would actually entail, they would abandon that concept and decide to polarize on the positive path instead. I should know. Wink

Quote:It's only the beginning of the negative path that is based on an illusion. The choices that leads to the negative path can only be made while you are deluded.

Then, how do you explain this?

69.11 Wrote:Secondly, when a positively oriented entity incarnates in a thoroughly negative environment it must needs learn/teach the lessons of the love of self thus becoming one with its other-selves.

This says: A positive entity in a negative environment must needs learn/teach the lessons of love of self. How do you explain this?

Quote:Do not forget that, once this choice/path is crystallized,

But it isn't crystallized. In fact, the material says that the more one polarizes, the easier it is to switch the path. That means it becomes more fluid, not less fluid.

LOL! Maybe we should just plan to compare notes after we contact intelligent infinity and are less confused! Luckily, I don't think it is in any case necessary to totally understand this philosophy in order to graduate. All that is necessary is polarization. Big Grin
We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.
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Patrick
10-24-2012, 02:40 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-24-2012, 03:30 PM by Tenet Nosce.)
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
Look. Forget all of this.

What I am saying is that the common notion of an "ethical person outwardly serving" is not the only version of "polarizing on the positive path" that is available.

An entity could be meditating alone in a cave for 6000 years, and still be able to polarize on the positive path. Why? Because it is not in any case necessary for another human being to be physically present in their experience in order to polarize on the positive path.

However, if an entity, meditating in a cave for 6000 years, realizes their true identity, that DOES IN FACT make it easier for other entities to follow in their own paths. Thus, it "serves others" in that sense. It helps to "lay the groundwork" for others to realize their own identity. It is helpful.

A man in a cave for 6000 years, while remarkable, otherwise accomplishes nothing of true import, if all they did was stare at their own shadow, and never made the decision to use that shadow as a catalyst for knowing their true identity. Yes, that is true. But I am saying that is not Archetype 22- The Choice. That choice is what makes Archetype 22 possible.

Similarly, a "good, nice person, serving outwardly" may not actually be polarizing at all. If they are insincere about it, there won't be much polarization. This is because it has really very little to do with ethics or activity.

It has everything to do with alignment and identity. Surely we agree on this.
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10-24-2012, 02:58 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-24-2012, 03:07 PM by Parsons.)
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
TN, you seem to be only considering the third octave *and not the Creation as a whole. Duality is not half the entire experience existence has to offer. Also, βαθμιαίος's post listing Ra quotes conflicts with your denial of what the Choice is. It seems like you are using reductive logic and deny that the Choice of 3D is between STS and STO yet offer no explanation of what that Choice is. One of the quotes in βαθμιαίος's post explains that the simplified model of the Choice being between STS and STO is basically correct but simplistic from Ra's perspective.

I would provide a direct quote now but I am at work on my iPhone.
-==-
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10-24-2012, 03:37 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-24-2012, 03:42 PM by Tenet Nosce.)
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
Quote:yet offer no explanation of what that Choice is

Parsons- You are too funny! Big Grin

I, of course, have offered my view of what "The Choice" is, and you and I had a discussion about it! Remember?

(05-23-2012, 09:09 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
[Image: attachment.php?aid=910]

"The Choice" is not between this or that, us or them, black or white, good or bad, right or wrong, STS or STO, or any other dualistic construction. The Choice is whether to consciously grow beyond that dualistic scaffolding which is provided for by nature. This is why Ra advised the card be placed at the end of the sequence, rather than the beginning.

I submit: The 21 Archetypes of the Tarot represent those forces of nature which unconsciously shape our experience. Like waves crashing upon the shore, they are swift, they are powerful, and they are relentless. But they are also distortions, and thus "not in any case necessary."

Even the most pig-headed, doltish, closed-hearted "Fool" will evolve to some small degree during the course of an incarnation, based upon the deterministic effects of the archetypes upon their consciousness. There is no such thing as devolution, or even standing still. In this, there is no Choice; there is no true "free will" as one may only select from a pre-programmed set of experiences, as in a role-playing game. And just like in an RPG, the more imbalanced one's character becomes, the harder it will be to progress in the game without taking steps to bring that character back into balance.

Within the rules of the game, one may decide to go chop wood, or sell potions, or fight dragons, or heal their comrades in battle. But one may not seek new forms of life, or invent their own magic spells, or become a dragon and burn down a whole village, or slay their own comrades in battle. The decision is limited to whatever the programmers elected to write into the code, and in the end, it is all just a bunch of zeroes and ones electronically encoded on a memory device. (You didn't really think it made you "better than" another player by casting yourself as a Druid Healer instead of a Dread Mage, did you? Wink)

If one goes to the ice cream store, and is presented with two options- chocolate or vanilla- is there really a Choice? Or merely a decision? What if one would prefer strawberry? Or to invent a new flavor altogether? And is it really all that impressive of an accomplishment if one decides ahead of time that they will always take the vanilla option over the chocolate? That sounds to me like taking what little choice there was in the matter, and reducing it down to zero. Is that really the point of incarnation? To become utterly predictable in one's behavior? And how, exactly, does making the same decision over and over again bring one into balance, anyway? Huh

[Image: tarot22.jpg]

INTERPRETATION: In order to acquire Choice, one must look beyond the outer appearances of duality (sun and moon), take up the burden of one's own balancing, and face the dragon (Dweller on the Threshold), thus freeing oneself from the need to incarnate within an archetypal field generated by a Logos.

(HINT: Why is this man and the world in which he lives, moves, and has his being, depicted as being inside a picture frame?)



(10-13-2012, 01:02 PM)Parsons Wrote:  
(10-12-2012, 03:39 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
(10-12-2012, 09:56 AM)Parsons Wrote:  The instances of what I refer to as 'binary thinking' from my fellow 3D inhabitants is a daily occurrence at work and in society. The vast majority of people seem to be reverting to fear/'pack' based living, i.e. they will be the ones moving on to "further 3D lessons."

How does binary thinking apply in the LoO subcontext of STO/STS?

The STS have a much easier time controlling those people who only think in that simple mentality. For instance, it is much easier to justify war with Iran if a large enough chunk of the population believe they are 'bad'. If the people looked at Iran at any more complicated perspective than that, they might realize they have a large civilian population like any country.
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10-24-2012, 03:43 PM,
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
(10-24-2012, 12:58 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Quote:The choice made is very real even if it is made based on an illusion. Remember, experience is real.

Experience is only real if something real is experienced. The only thing that is real is identity. Thus, if a catalyst causes an entity to experience identity, it results in polarization. If not, it is meaningless.

Our identity is our awareness. Our identity is our chosen limitation of the viewpoint.

"8.17 Questioner: How did they use them?

Ra: I am Ra. The use of experience is to learn. Consider a race who watches a movie. It experiences a story and identifies with the feelings, perceptions, and experiences of the hero."

Our identity changes with experience. So if we say that experience is not real, then at least the changes to our identity certainly is real. Would you agree with that ?


(10-24-2012, 12:58 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Quote:I believe that the choice of the two polarities is The Choice of 3d. The reason for this belief is simply that 4th density time/space is now completely separate for the two polarities.

I'm curious to know: How do you explain this quote?
"47.6 ...The qualifications for fifth density, however, involve understanding. This then, becomes the primary qualification for graduation from fourth to fifth density. To achieve this graduation the entity must be able to understand the actions, the movements, and the dance. There is no percentage describable which measures this understanding. It is a measure of efficiency of perception. It may be measured by light. The ability to love, accept, and use a certain intensity of light thus creates the requirement for both positive and negative fourth to fifth harvesting."

My interpretation is. In 4th density you increase your awareness (or perception) via understanding. Both positive and negative entities will have to love, accept and use enough of the available understanding until it becomes aware of 5th density and able to accept this new intensity of light/love. Obviously, negative entities will use this understanding very differently than a positive entity will.


(10-24-2012, 12:58 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  ...Why does it matter so much which path they polarize on?

It doesn't. Smile It only matters to the self which walks the chosen path.


(10-24-2012, 12:58 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Quote:But from the point of view of experience, it's very relevant. Because so much of what you are going to experience in this octave after 3d depends on that choice. The flavor of your experiences are going to be very different indeed based on The Choice of polarity.

Quote:77.16 Questioner: What I am really attempting to understand, since all of these twenty-one philosophical bases result in the twenty-second which is The Choice, is why this choice is so important, why the Logos seems to put so much emphasis on this choice, and what function this choice of polarity has, precisely, in the evolution or the experience of that which is created by the Logos?

Ra: I am Ra. The polarization or choosing of each mind/body/spirit is necessary for harvestability from third density. The higher densities do their work due to the polarity gained in this choice.

As you can see, Don is the one who is confused. He even knows he is confused. For, if "all of these twenty-one philosophical bases result in the twenty second, which is "The Choice", then how could it possibly be that one makes "The Choice" BEFORE experiencing the first twenty-one archetypes? Huh

Don is the one that identifies "The Choice" with the "choice of polarity". Ra is doing the best they can with his persistent confusion. After all, they should be experts in confusion around the Law of One by now!

1.1 Wrote:We are old upon your planet and have served with varying degrees of success in transmitting the Law of One, of Unity, of Singleness to your peoples.

To polarize, you must choose a polarity, there is no other way. Polarization, polarizing and choosing a polarity all means the very same thing.

If not, then what does "Polarization" means to you ?


(10-24-2012, 12:58 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Quote:The "&" is there to connote awareness of Oneness. There is no such thing as "polarization on both paths".

Then what would you call it when an entity polarizes on the negative path through fifth density, then switches in sixth?

This my friend is indeed very dear to me. Smile The path that the positively oriented entities take is the path of Oneness/Unity, it is not based on an omission and it was the only path available before the veil existed. So it's very simple, when a negative entity reaches 6th density, it cannot go further without opening its heart chakra. Since it cannot learn the lessons of Unity without first accepting the awareness of Oneness/Unity that comes from the center of the spectrum, that being green ray. So they naturally abandon polarity altogether.

For the positively oriented entity, it is much easier and indeed natural to release polarity. And here's the kicker, because of this I believe that non polarity and the positive polarity are nearly the same thing. Negative polarity simply being a new way/path of playing the game of this octave that was never even planned for since it was not even imagined until experienced.


(10-24-2012, 12:58 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Quote:All are the Creator knowing itself. Yes I know that once those on the negative path realizes their true identity, they are already far along the chosen path.

So what you are saying is that it is possible for the Creator to know itself through the act of adopting a false identity?

There are no false identities. Your identity is simply your point of view. By "realizes their true identity", I meant when they become aware of their chosen point of view or we could say of their chosen awareness. They know that they are omitting a part of the awareness that is available to them. They honestly believe that green ray is folly.


(10-24-2012, 12:58 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Quote:The Choice is not fully conscious, if it was fully conscious freewill would not operate as efficiently and that would be like it was before the veil.

So the axis upon which Creation turn is a half-conscious, or possibly unconscious, choice? What would be the point of that?

Yes "The Choice" cannot be made in full awareness. At least, the choices leading to the negative path cannot be made in full awareness.

The point is to make available new more extreme experiences for the Creator.


(10-24-2012, 12:58 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Quote:No such thing as control over your other-selves existed before the veil.

Then, how do those polarizing on the negative path in fourth and fifth densities (where there is no veil) acquire more polarity?

Like I said, even after the veil is removed, the negative entity continues to block the heart chakra. They consciously choose to omit this part of their self. So they do not feel compassion and this is by choice. Starting in 4d they have understanding now too, so they can use this most effectively to polarize even further.


(10-24-2012, 12:58 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Quote:Here is how (and this is the whole point my friend Smile).

Oh gosh, no I don't think those people are polarizing at all! Those people aren't even in Ra's deck! LOL. They are playing "The Fool", not making "The Choice".

They might unknowingly be developing a bias, yes. For if one of these folks actually got serious about "enslaving others", they would eventually find that is only possible through a gradual accepting of their true identity along the negative path.

It's not possible not to polarize in veiled 3d. You can yoyo in between positive and negative as long as you wish though. My example will certainly polarize an entity in the negative, but in their next incarnation they could make other choices that are more positive and they yoyo. It takes a great deal of incarnations before you polarize enough for harvest. But the more you polarize, the more opportunity is given to refine that choice. At some point you become aware that the point was to make The Choice and when this happens you are normally already far on the chosen path.


(10-24-2012, 12:58 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Quote:It's only the beginning of the negative path that is based on an illusion. The choices that leads to the negative path can only be made while you are deluded.

Then, how do you explain this?

69.11 Wrote:Secondly, when a positively oriented entity incarnates in a thoroughly negative environment it must needs learn/teach the lessons of the love of self thus becoming one with its other-selves.

This says: A positive entity in a negative environment must needs learn/teach the lessons of love of self. How do you explain this?

That is because, at this time in the evolution of our universe, there is such a thing as positive and negative time/space. If you find yourself in negative time/space, in order to progress, you will have to incarnate. And you will thus have to incarnate in a negative space/time environment.

And once there. "69.15 Questioner: It would seem to me that it would be an extremely difficult situation for the positively polarized entity and the learning process would be extremely traumatic. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. Let us say that the positively polarized individual makes a poor student of the love of self and thus spends much more time, if you will, than those native to that pattern of vibrations."

It is my belief that when Ra speak of the love of self in the context of the negative path, what is meant is love of self over the other self.


(10-24-2012, 12:58 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Quote:Do not forget that, once this choice/path is crystallized, even after the veil is removed in 4d, they still choose not to open their heart chakra even while knowing that such a portion of awareness is available. They are aware of the omission that their path is based on, but that is what they chose to experience and they like it this way and all experience is perfectly fine for the Creator.

But it isn't. In fact, the material says that the more one polarizes, the easier it is to switch the path.

Indeed, all you have to do is open or close the heart chakra. They can open it, taste compassion, be disgusted by it and close it right back. Smile


(10-24-2012, 12:58 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  LOL! Maybe we should just plan to compare notes after we contact intelligent infinity and are less confused! Luckily, I don't think it is at all necessary to totally understand this philosophy in order to graduate. All that is necessary is polarization. Big Grin

I'm just humoring you here, because we both know that understanding is not of this density. Big Grin

"You are not here to fix it... You are here to love it." ~ Q'uo
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Tenet Nosce
10-24-2012, 03:46 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-24-2012, 03:51 PM by Tenet Nosce.)
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
Of course: Notice how the thread is now becoming a discussion about STS and STO, rather than Ra's nature and purpose, as stated in Session One.

Gosh, we just can't help ourselves, can we? Big Grin

I have found our discussing to be quite polarizing! Thanks all for the chat, but I have to go prepare for something. Which means I won't have much time coming up to continue this discussion very much. But I have enjoyed it. Thanks for being here. Ciao.

(10-24-2012, 03:43 PM)Patrick Wrote:  Our identity is our awareness.

Yes.

Patrick Wrote:Our identity is our chosen limitation of the viewpoint.

No. Our identity is constant.

Quote:If not, then what does "Polarization" means to you ?

The more relevant question is: What does it mean to Ra?

Quote:I'm just humoring you here, because we both know that understanding is not of this density. Big Grin

Precisely. Big Grin
We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation.
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Patrick
10-24-2012, 04:51 PM,
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
(10-24-2012, 02:40 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  Look. Forget all of this.

What I am saying is that the common notion of an "ethical person outwardly serving" is not the only version of "polarizing on the positive path" that is available.

If we define "ethical" as "Being in accordance with the accepted principles of right and wrong" then I agree with you wholeheartedly. Smile


(10-24-2012, 02:40 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  An entity could be meditating alone in a cave for 6000 years, and still be able to polarize on the positive path. Why? Because it is not in any case necessary for another human being to be physically present in their experience in order to polarize on the positive path.

However, if an entity, meditating in a cave for 6000 years, realizes their true identity, that DOES IN FACT make it easier for other entities to follow in their own paths. Thus, it "serves others" in that sense. It helps to "lay the groundwork" for others to realize their own identity. It is helpful.

A man in a cave for 6000 years, while remarkable, otherwise accomplishes nothing of true import, if all they did was stare at their own shadow, and never made the decision to use that shadow as a catalyst for knowing their true identity. Yes, that is true. But I am saying that is not Archetype 22- The Choice. That choice is what makes Archetype 22 possible.

I don't think we have the same point of view on what identity means.

No one is forced to play this game. The guy in the cave for 6000 years, might as well not incarnate. No one is forced to come into physicality.

IF you are here though, it's because you chose to play this game. So now that you're in the game, using your 3d other selves as mirrors is helpful. The guy in the cave is only using his 1d other selves and maybe 2d. 3d will be very long for that guy. Smile


(10-24-2012, 02:40 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  Similarly, a "good, nice person, serving outwardly" may not actually be polarizing at all. If they are insincere about it, there won't be much polarization. This is because it has really very little to do with ethics or activity.

It has everything to do with alignment and identity
Surely we agree on this.

Indeed. Except for this part "It has everything to do with alignment and identity". I would say it has everything to do with how you react to your other selves while you truly believe they are "other" than self.

"You are not here to fix it... You are here to love it." ~ Q'uo
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10-24-2012, 04:53 PM,
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
Can one say that they're having a lot of polarizing catalyst if they don't experience difficult situations? If life isn't filled with trouble, can one easily polarize still?

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10-24-2012, 05:05 PM,
RE: Ra's Adventures in Wonderland
(10-24-2012, 03:46 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
(10-24-2012, 03:43 PM)Patrick Wrote:  Our identity is our awareness.

Yes.

Patrick Wrote:Our identity is our chosen limitation of the viewpoint.

No. Our identity is constant.

It seems we have reached the bottom of our exchange here. Unless we took the time to discuss our viewpoints of "identity" in more detail.


(10-24-2012, 03:46 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  
Quote:If not, then what does "Polarization" means to you ?

The more relevant question is: What does it mean to Ra?

Ok then, what do you believe "polarization" means to Ra? Smile


(10-24-2012, 03:46 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:  ...
I have found our discussing to be quite polarizing! Thanks all for the chat, but I have to go prepare for something. Which means I won't have much time coming up to continue this discussion very much. But I have enjoyed it. Thanks for being here. Ciao.

Yes thank you my friend. That was really interesting and I do mean that positively. Wink

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