11-14-2012, 07:38 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2012, 07:58 PM by Tenet Nosce.)
(11-14-2012, 02:30 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Not so fast! It's important to distinguish all of the above in a traumatic, acute, emergency situation from all of the above in a chronic, degenerative disease condition.
I just meant "all of the above" in a general sense. Meaning- in the field of medicine at large, there is a time and a place for everything. Diet, herbs, supplements, drugs, radiation, surgery, acupuncture, homeopathy, aromatherapy, you name it... The challenge is to understand the relative risks and rewards, costs and benefits, as they apply to each unique situation.
In order to accomplish this, we must first acknowledge and respect that every situation is- in fact- unique. Secondly, we must acknowledge and respect the limitations of any single modality. Thus,
The main problem with surgery are the surgeons who think surgery is the best option in all cases.
The main problem with drugs are the medical doctors who think drugs are the best option in all cases.
The main problem with homeopathy are the homeopaths who think homeopathy is the best option in all cases.
The main problem with acupuncture is the acupuncturists who think acupuncture is the best option in all cases.
... and so on and so forth...
Quote:In fact I think that's precisely why people often think alternative methods fail - because they tried to do the alternative route while doing toxic drugs too!
Yes, that is true. But also I would say that many people decide at some point to take the wrong "alternative" approach based on a few testimonials, or the authoritative advice of a single health guru, and then when it doesn't work out, they dismiss the whole of alternative medicine.
Quote:Every day I hear about people who had a much easier time with the chemo - didn't get sick, hair didn't fall out, etc. - when the also drink our medically-certified ionized water at the same time. So I know for a fact that the water helps offset the toxic effects of the chemo.
Well see, there you go. They can work together. The basic idea of chemo is to selectively poison the cancer cells, and hope that the host survives. The newer drugs are aimed at being more selective and reducing the toxic effects to the body at large. Third agents which act to offset the toxic effects of the drug are certainly working in tandem.
Quote:But I also hear of people who already did the chemo/radiation and it failed, and they were given 2 months to live, were literally on their deathbeds, on a feeding tube, dying, left for dead by the medical establishment, and then they started drinking the water, got alkaline, and lo and behold 2 weeks later they're out of bed and 6 months later they are declared cancer-free!
These aren't 1-in-a-thousand stories, but the norm. I hear these stories frequently.
I'm not discounting those stories, but are we also counting the stories of those who drank the water and didn't recover?
Also, the people who recovered also had a change in their attitude which caused them to seek an alternative. When they were "left for dead" by the medical community, they went and looked elsewhere. That- in and of itself- probably greatly increased their chances of recovery over and above the effectiveness of the water.
Similarly, I wonder how many recoveries are attributed to chemo or radiation when it was mostly due to a change in attitude by the patient.
Quote:But, herbal lore says that if anyone has a need, the remedy will be right nearby, growing. We just have to ask the plant devas to direct us to it. (Herbal lore also says that if a weed is growing prolifically in our yard, then someone in the household needs it for medicine.)
Yes, that has always been interesting to me. Even more fascinating is that when we scientifically investigate these herbs, a great many of them in fact turn out to have the benefits that were told to the shamans by the plant spirits!
Quote:His gluttony killed him in the end. He gobbled up a toad, and died.
(This is the same dog who survived the snakebite.)
Aww... well you win some you lose some I guess. Or maybe due to his close interaction with you he became qualified for an upgrade to his vehicle! Who knows- maybe you will get to meet him again one day in human form.
But that is also interesting to me... there are many advantages for an animal to be a human pet. On the other hand, they seem to lose some of that animal instinct toward self-preservation.
Every so often the subject comes up around here about moving to the tropics... and then we think... what will we do with the cats? Can two house cats just be turned loose in an environment like that?
Quote:Yes. Like with minerals; we need most minerals in tiny, trace amounts, and others in large amounts, but if certain minerals are taken in large amounts they become toxic.
Conversely, many toxins taken in very small amounts, can actually improve health!
Quote:Yes, she was a religious nut, but her religion was science. She was such a hardcore atheist that she thought the physical reality was the end-all, and humans were wrong to let such ridiculous things as love and compassion interfere with natural selection.
ROFL! Yes, this is another example of a false dichotomy. The people who are so fanatical and dogmatic about science, that it becomes a religion to them. They might as well be churchies- it's all the same to me.
Quote:I don't feel compassion for the abstract, intangible, yet monstrous medical industry, but I certainly do feel compassion for the individual doctors, nurses, and other workers who are employed by that industry.
Yes. Unfortunately, the average person is unable to make a distinction between these. People don't generally understand the principles of emergent properties. A corporate entity is literally an entity, and can act in its own self interests apart from the individuals that constitute the entity.
Thus we have a health system that creates disease, an educational system that creates ignorance, an economic system that creates poverty, etc. If the system actually worked, it would no longer be necessary!
Quote:It must be very difficult for them, to face the reality of the industry that is their livelihood. They went to school for so many years, worked so hard, and probably had a desire to help people...gosh, such a strong structure of belief that is now being challenged by the holistic community.
Yes, but this is not at all unique to medicine. This type of thing is going on everywhere, in all aspects of society. The notion of centralized control and authoritarianism is being challenged by a greater number than ever before.
But as of yet, this movement is still somewhat lacking in solidarity. People are still very much engaged by infighting and secondary battles.
My belief is that medicine will change when the challengers on "both" sides of the fence (there are really more than two) look within to the authoritarians in their own ranks and remove them from the positions of authority in which they have been placed.
It's like- a truce needs to be called between the "mainstream" and the "alternative" groups so that everybody can focus on weeding out the fanatics, extremists, and authoritarian figureheads within their own communities.
Up until this point, those with authoritarian/extreme views have been given a "free pass" by the masses so long as they are perceived to be on the so-called "right side of the fence" as concerns whatever issue... i.e. "Oh, you are into holistic medicine? Well then it's 'OK' that you are a fanatical extremist authoritarian type."
Quote:I'm not sure what the mechanism is that keeps so many holistic practitioners closed to other products and treatments. You'd think they'd be more open, right? In some cases, yes, but in most cases, no. You are correct that many of them can be just as locked into their paradigm as the allopathic doctors.
You would think. But no, sadly that is not the case. Same people, different costumes.
Quote:It's usually the ones who have a vested interest in their particular line of products, or healing protocol. They just invested $20k in a Rife machine, or $10k in one of those energy testing devices,
Yes. Did you know that we have a "naturopathic college" here that is- according to my understanding- basically a sales outlet for these "quantum machines" than can supposedly read our subtle energy fields?!
Quote:their entire practice built on the premise that it is the best detoxifier and healthy for long-term use...how could they now admit they were wrong?
Exactly! It most definitely is a circular process...
Quote:Come to think of it, now that I just made that list, all based on my own personal experience, I retract my earlier statement that alternative practitioners were generally less closed-minded than their allopathic counterparts. Now that I really think it through, I realize you are probably closer to the truth on that point than I was. Sure, these are all generalizations, but I'm actually finding a hard time thinking of alternative practitioners I've met who were readily receptive to new information.
See- we've all been indoctrinated too! I know that naturopathic medicine has plenty of authoritarian figures, and yes many of them are in leadership positions.
Quote:That might be because who am I? I'm not in their league. I have no credentials, so why would they be open to anything I offer to them?
Could be that, but not necessarily. I wouldn't take it too personally. But yes, I think you are right to the extent that most people misunderstand credentials... including those that have them!
A credential basically means that an individual has demonstrated a certain level of understanding regarding a particular body of information. Since there is no credential available for ionized water, your not having one shouldn't really make a difference. Also, a credential really says nothing about a person's character or relative skill at their trade.
In addition, ionic polarization, free radicals, and acid/base chemistry are confusing concepts that are not easily understood- even by doctors. So in addition to there just being all around confusion and maybe an unwillingness for somebody to admit what they don't know- you have to work against all of the incomplete or false explanations put out by the authoritarian "experts" in the alternative health field!
I don't know about you, but I still have a hard time getting through a college-level text on the topics of ionic polarization, free radicals and acid/base chemistry. And I'm sort of a super-genius.
[Incidentally, you might find this thread on Polarization and Polarity interesting. We are talking about the difference between ionic polarization- such as occurs in water and other crystals- and magnetic polarization that happens in magnets. It is relevant to the Ra material since they talk about both crystal healing and polarization of consciousness.]
Also, it may just be that the interest hasn't been sparked for whatever reason. For example if you sent me a research article about the effects of ionized water on gut ecology, all of a sudden I would get excited about it.
Quote:Maybe they are more open to other practitioners. Still, it shows an 'authoritarian/expert' mentality, just as with the MDs. Despite being in a field that is largely unregulated, with advances being made all the time by people without conventional credentials (or any at all), they have still locked themselves into a box.
We're all in a box. Some of us just don't know we are locked in a box. And some of us think we are free.