"Magical ability is the ability to consciously use the so-called unconscious."
07-21-2014, 05:09 PM,
#31
RE: "Magical ability is the ability to consciously use the so-called unconscious....
(07-21-2014, 05:05 PM)Adonai One Wrote:  
(07-21-2014, 05:03 PM)Tanner Wrote:  I did not say that mind does not function through awareness, just that awareness does not originate in the mind but rather the mind originates in awareness.

And, currently, we have nothing in The Ra Material to engage and compare this with. Only opposing inferences.

Yep, and hence one of the unfortunate side effects of a heavily veiled teaching.
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07-21-2014, 06:24 PM,
#32
RE: "Magical ability is the ability to consciously use the so-called unconscious....
(07-21-2014, 05:05 PM)Adonai One Wrote:  
(07-21-2014, 05:03 PM)Tanner Wrote:  I did not say that mind does not function through awareness, just that awareness does not originate in the mind but rather the mind originates in awareness.

And, currently, we have nothing in The Ra Material to engage and compare this with. Only opposing inferences.

There is this though, which sounds to me like it's saying that awareness of mind, body and spirit complexes preceded their use. Of course they all existed in potentiation, but the fact remains that according to Ra the awareness of the efficiency of the m/b/s complex for experience came before their implementation by early logoi.

And I think Don makes a really good point in this one too so I'll bold that as well Big Grin

Quote:78.10 ↥ Questioner: Now, I realize that we are on very difficult ground, you might say, for precise terminology here, since it is totally displaced from our system of coordinates for evaluation in our present system of language.

These early Logoi that formed in the center of the galaxy wished, I assume, to create a system of experience for the One Creator. Did they then start with no previous experience or information about how to do this? This is difficult to ask.

Ra: I am Ra. At the beginning of this creation or, as you may call it, octave there were those things known which were the harvest of the preceding octave. About the preceding creation we know as little as we do of the octave to come. However, we are aware of those pieces of gathered concept which were the tools which the Creator had in the knowing of the self.

These tools were of two kinds. Firstly, there was an awareness of the efficiency for experience of mind, body, and spirit. Secondly, there was an awareness of the most efficacious nature or, if you will, significator of mind, body, and spirit. Thirdly, there was the awareness of two aspects of mind, of body, and of spirit that the significator could use to balance all catalyst. You may call these two the matrix and the potentiator.
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07-21-2014, 07:58 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-21-2014, 08:44 PM by Adonai One.)
#33
RE: "Magical ability is the ability to consciously use the so-called unconscious."
One can be aware of awareness. The mind can know the mind. I find no clear, verifiable contradiction between the belief of there only being mind and this statement.

One can have a mind but not know it as the concept termed as mind. The mind can exist without the concept of mind. Awareness can exist without the concept of awareness as these concepts can exist tangibly without the English language.

The mind being awareness, in my view, was always existent but was not always known as being distinct as a concept. Thus I find the mind inseparable from its original form with no distinction being necessary or clear. The distinction has yet to be made in the material or in this discussion as with any awareness there is a mind.

As an animal comes to know itself as the self to become a spirit, the mind comes to know itself as the mind to create the concept of mind, with mind manifesting its progress, change and evolution as the concept of the spirit, making the concepts intertwine, its origin as the mind indisputable.

The only thing that I can see existing besides mind is unawareness, the mind having no other intrinsic quality other than awareness.
...only one important statement...All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.
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07-21-2014, 09:48 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-21-2014, 09:50 PM by Icaro.)
#34
RE: "Magical ability is the ability to consciously use the so-called unconscious."
Since the negative polarity is opened through the yellow ray, I see the negative game related to social control..limiting movement and behavior of groups or individuals. Ra says this somewhere phrased as "dominating the body complex" or "yellow ray complex"..something similar. In my opinion, to polarize negatively, you would repress your anger towards someone or a group, and funnel that creatively "..brought to the surface in an organized use."...hatch some scheme, backstab, etc.
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07-22-2014, 09:46 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-22-2014, 09:49 PM by third-density-being.)
#35
RE: "Magical ability is the ability to consciously use the so-called unconscious....
Hello Adonai One,

I have to write that your post/thread is quite intriguing for me. "Magical Work" is one of many fascinating concepts that The Law of One contains.

Since my understanding of this topic is crude/incomplete (at best), my Words/Sharing will be most likely non-satisfactory for You. Yet, I wanted to confront "direction of understanding" I'm building right now, since it is somewhat different from what was wrote in this thread by Participants of this discussion.

At this time I do not have proper quotes for this discussion and for that I would like to apologize.

(07-21-2014, 01:59 PM)Adonai One Wrote:  
Quote:79.33 ...Ra: I am Ra. Magical ability is the ability to consciously use the so-called unconscious. Therefore, there was maximal ability prior to the innovation of sub-Logoi’s free will.

As I recall, Ra said that all magical work is done in time/space. Since Our unconscious part of Self resides in that part of Illusion, I understand this statement as conscious work in time/space through Our unconscious part of Selves. For conscious to influence unconscious, Power of Will is necessary, since "normal flow of influences" (as I understand it) is from unconscious to conscious. Power of Will in that case may be used to enable Our unconscious/(time/space) part of Self a state of "causativeness" - to be a source of causality/activity. To achieve that, it is necessary to "build a charge/focus of energy" in time/space - it may be seen as to provide Our Selves in time/space with tools/means of acting upon time/space part of Illusion.
Now, this is tricky part - how to build a charge/energy focus in time/space? I think for that purposes rituals were created. At the beginning, as One starts this work, it is necessary to perform those rituals in physical Illusion (space/time). As One is growing with experience and becoming an adept, those rituals may be performed purely in mind - as vivid, continuous/uninterrupted visualizations. Ra spoke of visualizations as a form of Will training - therefore for One to be able to build and sustain such complex (and long) visualizations in mind, a lot (and I mean a LOT) training is required. For ritual-visualization to possess same "charging/focusing ability" as ritual performed in physical Illusion, one-pointedness in attention is necessary - while visualizing, nothing else may exist for Adepts' Mind - to focus an attention to such extend is possible only after very rigorous training.
Since I have no experience with rituals (or magic for that matter) I can only deduce what are important factors in such work. Firstly, I think very important is repetitiveness of ritual - building charge/focus of energy in time/space may be compared to manually charging a battery by spinning a wheel. Each spin is one performed ritual. Of course since Being is constantly growing in experience, in time each "spin" will/should possess greater "charging ability". But to reach stage/level when one ritual will be able to bring about required charge/focus is unimaginable for me. The Will of such Entity would have to be TREMENDOUSLY strong/refined. I think We can safely assume that such Power of Will is not available for third density beings.

At this point I'm reaching borders of my rational approach - I do not know how to "release" builded charge/focus in time/space. I don't know if "building it" is equivalent with "exerting an influence" - as this "charge/focus build-up" takes place in Our time/space Selves or maybe from very beginning We are charging/focusing this energy at/in/onto the object of Our influence in time/space.
Maybe "realizing act" should be included as part of ritual - for example to include into ritual "symbol of release of the charged/focused energy" via some kind of "trigger" - like "words formula" combined with some minor "releasing ritual". If this is in any way correct, I assume that it should be included in "main ritual" with its repetitiveness, to "condition Self". Thanks to it "releasing ritual" itself will be charged/established with "causativeness" in time/space.

All above is my understanding of what "magic" is - or more precisely - "Magical Influence". Since this is a practice without contacting the Intelligent Infinity, it (as I understand) doesn't possess a "creative property". Therefore result of such (magical) actions may "only" be influence on that what already "exists" - optional influence on natural energy flow patterns.

How does it translate itself onto/into space/time?
Firstly, all actions that took place in time/space are manifesting themselves in space/time. So, for magical action to manifests itself in space/time, proper charge/focus of energy in time/space is required.
Regarding "manifestations" - in most cases (as I understand) they are minor, physical changes in space/time Illusion, which are executed in proper "time" (as timing of "magical action" in relation to events taking place in physical Illusion - not as "standing alone" event/creation itself).
It can be understood as influence on structure of a physical matter - strengthening/weakening structural binds - as well as energy cumulation/dispersion.
In other words We can try to elongate usage of some sort of material tool which for some reason is important for as and unique (non-replicable), or opposite to that shortening the usage of some material tool by trying to influence its structure to weaken it, to accelerate its degeneration. Same goes for an energy accumulation/dispersion - either attempt to charge up (with space/time, physical manifestation of energy) something or to over-charge it, as well as discharge - to drain the energy from some object, to lessening its capability of being charged.

Above I've presented my current, very limited, understanding of what "magic"/"magical influence" is in face of RA's Teachings/Learnings.
At this point I would like to underline that this method is somewhat "forcible" and is purely based on the Power of the Will. Therefore results of such actions are, as I mentioned it earlier, minor.


When We are considering "Magical Work" that includes contact with "Intelligent Infinity", I think invaluable are three teaching/learnings given by RA to Don/Carla/Jim Complex, and which I've quote in this thread:
http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=9550

As RA said:
Quote:(6.1)
Ra:
(...)
The healing ability, like all other, what this instrument would call,
paranormal abilities, is affected by the opening of a pathway or shuttle into
intelligent infinity.

(...)

In case of this method, I fully agree with Tanner post:

(07-21-2014, 03:33 PM)Tanner Wrote:  To define intelligent infinity as purely the mind is, I believe, erroneous because to do so is to limit infinity in its conception. This is a point I believe we have disagreed on for some time. It does not really "contain" it, but rather the microcosmic self is an analog to the macrocosmic self, they are both one, two points in a circle. As for how can it differ I would say it is different entirely based upon what is conscious and what is unconscious.

This whole thread once again beggars the extensive question of what is "conscious/unconscious".

Quote:(3.8) This energy is intelligent. It is hierarchical. Much as your mind/body/spirit complex dwells within an hierarchy of vehicles and retains, therefore, the shell, or shape, or field, and the intelligence of each ascendingly intelligent or balanced body, so does each atom of such a material as rock. When one can speak to that intelligence, the finite energy of the physical, or chemical, rock/body is put into contact with that infinite power which is resident in the more well-tuned bodies, be they human or rock.

With this connection made, a request may be given. The intelligence of infinite rock-ness communicates to its physical vehicle and that splitting and moving which is desired is then carried out through the displacement of the energy field of rock-ness from finity to a dimension which we may conveniently call, simply, infinity.

In this way, that which is required is accomplished due to the cooperation of the infinite understanding of the Creator indwelling in the living rock. This is, of course, the mechanism by which many things are accomplished which are not subject to your present means of physical analysis of action at a distance.

Moreover, there's something that wasn't mentioned in this context and what I think is extremely important - that is a thought-form. Below I'm quoting question/answer asked by Mr. Don in same session, regarding described by RA method of creating the Great Pyramid in Giza:

Quote:(3.13)
Questioner: What is everlasting rock?

Ra: I am Ra. If you can understand the concept of thought-forms you will
realize that the thought-form is more regular in its distortion than the
energy fields created by the materials in the rock which has been created
through thought form from thought to finite energy and being-ness in your,
shall we say, distorted reflection of the level of the thought-form.


May we answer you in any more helpful way?

Unfortunately at that session concept of thought-forms were not pursued, as Mr. Don was focusing on Healing methods. But I remember that RA mentioned thought-forms couple time later. Unfortunately at this time I have neither no quotes of this, nor understanding of thought-form itself that I can Share.
Maybe Someone else has at this time understanding/quotes that may help Us to comprehend this concept?

(07-21-2014, 01:59 PM)Adonai One Wrote:  (...)
The being of the positive polarity will embrace this pain and become aware of it to further work by allowing unconsciousness to be focused on the specific goal at hand.
(...)
The negative polarity hates its pains and unwanted feelings and uses them to feed itself further into an undesirable state to coerce itself towards its work and inevitable complete unconsciousness of what is desired to be destroyed.

As I agree with above description/understanding of "work with pain" and how it differs for each polarity, I do not understand why do You "equate" it with "Magical Work" in general. As I understand, this is rather "work with catalyst on a magical level" - in other words how each polarity cope with "pain of experience". When I've read You post for the first time I had an impression that You understand "Pain" as common companion of "Magical Working". Was my impression correct or did I misunderstand your Words?
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07-22-2014, 10:52 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-22-2014, 11:33 PM by Adonai One.)
#36
RE: "Magical ability is the ability to consciously use the so-called unconscious."
It is my belief and experienced understanding that the consciousness will face resistances at the higher levels of magical workings: Being able to do magical tasks but feeling mental work as they are done just as it takes effort to move a heavy object. This is the work of polarity when a being faces difficulty in any case. This is how the will and faith are strengthened and great catalyst faced.


Magic requires intense and efficient use of catalyst. It is the generation of catalyst for the self as one explores uncertainties.

Mind discussion continued: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=9574
...only one important statement...All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.
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07-29-2014, 04:30 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-29-2014, 04:33 PM by भाव.)
#37
RE: "Magical ability is the ability to consciously use the so-called unconscious....
(07-21-2014, 03:33 PM)Tanner Wrote:  To define intelligent infinity as purely the mind is, I believe, erroneous because to do so is to limit infinity in its conception. This is a point I believe we have disagreed on for some time. It does not really "contain" it, but rather the microcosmic self is an analog to the macrocosmic self, they are both one, two points in a circle. As for how can it differ I would say it is different entirely based upon what is conscious and what is unconscious.

This whole thread once again beggars the extensive question of what is "conscious/unconscious".

Quote:(3.8) This energy is intelligent. It is hierarchical. Much as your mind/body/spirit complex dwells within an hierarchy of vehicles and retains, therefore, the shell, or shape, or field, and the intelligence of each ascendingly intelligent or balanced body, so does each atom of such a material as rock. When one can speak to that intelligence, the finite energy of the physical, or chemical, rock/body is put into contact with that infinite power which is resident in the more well-tuned bodies, be they human or rock.

With this connection made, a request may be given. The intelligence of infinite rock-ness communicates to its physical vehicle and that splitting and moving which is desired is then carried out through the displacement of the energy field of rock-ness from finity to a dimension which we may conveniently call, simply, infinity.

In this way, that which is required is accomplished due to the cooperation of the infinite understanding of the Creator indwelling in the living rock. This is, of course, the mechanism by which many things are accomplished which are not subject to your present means of physical analysis of action at a distance.

Quote:To begin to master the concept of mental discipline it is necessary to examine the self. The polarity of your dimension must be internalized. Where you find patience within your mind you must consciously find the corresponding impatience and vice versa. Each thought that a being has, has in its turn an antithesis. The disciplines of the mind involve, first of all, identifying both those things of which you approve and those things of which you disapprove within yourself, and then balancing each and every positive and negative charge with its equal. The mind contains all things. Therefore, you must discover this completeness within yourself.
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07-29-2014, 04:34 PM,
#38
RE: "Magical ability is the ability to consciously use the so-called unconscious."
Is containment a primary trait of intelligent infinity? I don't disagree with the mind being infinite and containing all things, it is of course the perfect reservoir and reflection of the infinite, but I disagree that that is what intelligent infinity is.

Quote: (4.17) Firstly, the mind must be known to itself. This is perhaps the most demanding part of healing work. If the mind knows itself then the most important aspect of healing has occurred, for consciousness is the microcosm of the Law of One.

If consciousness which is the Matrix of the Mind is a microcosm to the Law of One, then that denotes to me that the macrocosm of consciousness is Intelligent Infinity. I believe it is intelligence which gives life to mind and not the other way around. The mind is what potentiates the intelligence of infinity, thus the will.

Imo.
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07-29-2014, 05:02 PM,
#39
RE: "Magical ability is the ability to consciously use the so-called unconscious."
That quote does not explicitly say consciousness is ONLY the microcosm.
...only one important statement...All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.
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07-29-2014, 05:21 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-29-2014, 05:36 PM by भाव.)
#40
RE: "Magical ability is the ability to consciously use the so-called unconscious....
(07-29-2014, 04:34 PM)Tanner Wrote:  Is containment a primary trait of intelligent infinity? I don't disagree with the mind being infinite and containing all things, it is of course the perfect reservoir and reflection of the infinite, but I disagree that that is what intelligent infinity is.


Intelligent infinity itself is potential. Intelligent infinity "contains" the potential for all things with proper work.

Does the mind not contain all in potentiation?
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07-29-2014, 06:36 PM,
#41
RE: "Magical ability is the ability to consciously use the so-called unconscious....
(07-29-2014, 05:02 PM)Adonai One Wrote:  That quote does not explicitly say consciousness is ONLY the microcosm.

There are many places where Ra says something is something and does not explicit it as being its singular identity so that is kind of a moot point.

(07-29-2014, 05:21 PM)भाव Wrote:  
(07-29-2014, 04:34 PM)Tanner Wrote:  Is containment a primary trait of intelligent infinity? I don't disagree with the mind being infinite and containing all things, it is of course the perfect reservoir and reflection of the infinite, but I disagree that that is what intelligent infinity is.


Intelligent infinity itself is potential. Intelligent infinity "contains" the potential for all things with proper work.

Does the mind not contain all in potentiation?

How can Intelligent Infinity both "be" potential AND "contain" potential, isn't that redundant? For what purpose would it contain what it is?

Quote: (51.10) The intelligent energy of the mind/body/spirit complex totality draws its existence from intelligent infinity or the Creator. This Creator is to be understood, both in macrocosm and microcosm, to have, as we have said, two natures: the unpotentiated infinity which is intelligent; this is all that there is.

Intelligent Energy is potentiated or activated Intelligent Infinity. The mind indeed contains all and encompasses all potentials, but it is just an interface through which Intelligent Infinity knows itself.

To call the mind intelligent infinity is like saying the design of the wire is the electrical charge when really the wire just enables the charge to manifest itself.

I, personally, do not think that there is only one thing which reflects infinity, so not only does the mind contain all, but so does the body and the spirit. Yet, who can say if the One Thought will forever be the nature of the One? Eternal, yet changing, yet perfect, yet imperfect, the same and not the same. I do not hold my breath with expectation for the Infinity of Intelligence to express itself continuously in the same way.
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