"...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
07-22-2014, 11:29 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-22-2014, 11:41 PM by Adonai One.)
#1
"...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
Continued from: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=9563&pid=158713#pid158713

Quote:30.5 Questioner: I would like to know how the mind/body/spirit complexes originate. How, going back as far as necessary, does the— Do they originate by spirit forming mind and mind forming body? Can you tell me this?

Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider that you are attempting to trace evolution. This evolution is as we have previously described, the consciousness being first, in first density, without movement, a random thing. Whether you may call this mind or body complex is a semantic problem. We call it mind/body complex recognizing always that in the simplest iota of this complex exists in its entirety the One Infinite Creator; this mind/body complex then in second density discovering the growing and turning towards the light, thus awakening what you may call the spirit complex, that which intensifies the upward spiraling towards the love and light of the Infinite Creator.

The addition of this spirit complex, though apparent rather than real, it having existed potentially from the beginning of space/time, perfects itself by graduation into third density. When the mind/body/spirit complex becomes aware of the possibility of service to self or other-self, then the mind/body/spirit complex is activated.

From this quote, we can clearly deduce that the spirit complex did not exist tangibly prior to space/time or rather the perception of space navigated by time, often termed the "illusion." In other words, the spirit does not come to exist until illusions are formed. Prior to this, we only have the concepts of mind and body. There is no spirit. There is no journey by which an essence can travel across as all things are all things. There is only the all-mind creating planetary bodies and animal bodies.

So, no, the spirit does not transcend the mind. I once again state The Law of One material clearly supports all being mind in its purest essence: Intelligent Infinity.

Quote:4.23 ↥ Questioner: Thank you, Ra.

Ra: I am Ra. I leave you in the love and the light of the one Infinite Intelligence which is the Creator. Go forth rejoicing in the power and the peace of the One. Adonai.

Above commentary under Creative Commons BY-SA 3.0

Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20140723033551/http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=9574
...only one important statement...All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.
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vervex
07-23-2014, 12:08 AM,
#2
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potenti...
Quote:80.20 ↥ Questioner: Sorry about that. Can you tell me what the twentieth archetype would be?

Ra: I am Ra. That which you call the Sarcophagus in your system may be seen to be the material world, if you will. This material world is transformed by the spirit into that which is infinite and eternal. The infinity of the spirit is an even greater realization than the infinity of consciousness, for consciousness which has been disciplined by will and faith is that consciousness which may contact intelligent infinity directly. There are many things which fall away in the many, many steps of adepthood. We, of Ra, still walk these steps and praise the One Infinite Creator at each transformation.

This makes it sound like spirit is broader than mind. So if that is what you mean by "transcend" then it does, indeed, transcend mind.

Quote:19.3 ↥ Questioner: When this transition from second to third density takes place, how does the entity, whether it be animal, tree, or mineral, become enspirited?
Ra: I am Ra. Entities do not become enspirited. They become aware of the intelligent energy within each portion, cell, or atom, as you may call it, of its beingness.

This awareness is that which is awareness of that already given. From the infinite come all densities. The self-awareness comes from within given the catalyst of certain experiences understanding, as we may call this particular energy, the upward spiraling of the cell or atom or consciousness.

So spirit is already there from the beginning.

Spirit is intelligent infinity. Mind is that portion of intelligent infinity which reflects upon itself.
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Adonai One
07-23-2014, 12:19 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-23-2014, 12:30 AM by Adonai One.)
#3
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
All that is stated is that the infinity of the spirit as a progression is greater than the infinity of consciousness in some unstated capacity, in a very unclear capacity that has no known relevance to this discussion. None of this speaks on the metaphysical origins of the spirit. None of it directly speaks on the connections to the mind. It only directly says that consciousness applied spiritually leads to great spiritual progress. It does not say, anywhere in any capacity, that the spirit overceeds consciousness.

Nowhere in those quotes is any of your conclusion directly stated. Your inferences have no relation to your sources at all.

I will add that in the first quote Ra only states infinite consciousness as a realization compared to the realization of the potential evolution the spirit evokes. Nowhere and I mean absolutely nowhere is it stated that the latter realization transcends the nature of conciousness of what it provides. In fact, it links a dependency between consciousness and "will and faith."

These quotes are completely misapplied.
...only one important statement...All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.
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vervex
07-23-2014, 12:28 AM,
#4
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potenti...
(07-23-2014, 12:19 AM)Adonai One Wrote:  The infinity of the spirit as a progression is greater than the infinity of consciousness in some unstated capacity. None of this speaks on the metaphysical origins of the spirit. None of it speaks on the connections to the mind. It only directly says that consciousness applied spiritually leads to great spiritual progress. It does not say, anywhere in any capacity, that the spirit overceeds consciousness.

Nowhere in those quotes is any of your conclusion directly stated. Your inferences have no relation to your sources at all.

The metaphysical origin? You assume beginnings, where there are none.

It has always existed.

"You will see by this series of definitive statements that mind, body, and spirit are inextricably intertwined and cannot continue, one without the other."

And you equate intelligent infinity with mind, and Ra never directly states that in the Law of One either. So you are guilty of the same thing you accuse me of.
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Adonai One
07-23-2014, 12:34 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-23-2014, 12:37 AM by Adonai One.)
#5
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
Quote:The Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator has only one important statement. That statement, my friends, as you know, is “All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.

Nothing but a mind can produce thought semantically.

I assume a beginning because this discussion is about metaphysics. It is not about the progression of the mind/body/spirit. Your quote here again has no application.

The question of debate here is if infinity, intelligent infinity, is not just a producer, a mind of thoughts and concepts that generates the concept of spirit, metaphysically?
...only one important statement...All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.
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vervex
07-23-2014, 12:43 AM,
#6
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potenti...
(07-23-2014, 12:34 AM)Adonai One Wrote:  Nothing but a mind can produce thought semantically.

Because you assume so?

Also, as an aside, if you are going to go back and retroactively edit your posts after I've already responded to them could you please at least add a note saying "edit:" so I don't have to go rerespond to new points you subsequently add? Or, even better, just start a new post with the new points and then everything has continuity for everyone to follow.
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Adonai One
07-23-2014, 12:47 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-23-2014, 12:49 AM by Adonai One.)
#7
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
I'll refresh the page before I submit an edit as to ensure this. I assume nobody has responded yet when I edit my posts and submit such edits. This is not intentional.

Not because I assume so but because the etymology and semantics of the word make a indisputable relation to the mind as the producer of thought. The word thought would not be used if it did not connote mind by the very foundation of the word's history.

"Old English þoht, geþoht "process of thinking, a thought; compassion," from stem of þencan "to conceive of in the mind, consider" (see think)."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=thought

You're basically challenging Ra's ability to use language.

Edit: The point discussed is that Ra does not know how to use the word thought.
...only one important statement...All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.
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07-23-2014, 12:53 AM,
#8
spirit
Where in the material does it say that thought is only produced by mind?

Assumption.
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07-23-2014, 12:56 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-23-2014, 01:03 AM by Adonai One.)
#9
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
(07-23-2014, 12:53 AM)anagogy Wrote:  Where in the material does it say that thought is only produced by mind?

Assumption.

Where in the material does it say that 1 = 1? One could equal two and The Law of One could be The Law of Two.

This is not about the material's content itself anymore. It's about what the material directly says through the English language and its use of it. Edit: It's about using the proper, agreed definitions of the words at hand. We either say Ra is competent and use words as they are intended or is speaking in mystic garble that can be interpreted every which way.

There are only so many ways to define "Thought" and to define it beyond the confines of the mind is to pretty much take the standard English vocabulary and say it no longer applies. We might as well all talk in word salad indian virtue guinea pig is alive intelligence....
...only one important statement...All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.
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vervex
07-23-2014, 02:53 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-23-2014, 02:54 AM by Rhayader.)
#10
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potenti...
Quote:30.5 Questioner: I would like to know how the mind/body/spirit complexes originate. How, going back as far as necessary, does the— Do they originate by spirit forming mind and mind forming body? Can you tell me this?

Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider that you are attempting to trace evolution. This evolution is as we have previously described, the consciousness being first, in first density, without movement, a random thing. Whether you may call this mind or body complex is a semantic problem. We call it mind/body complex recognizing always that in the simplest iota of this complex exists in its entirety the One Infinite Creator; this mind/body complex then in second density discovering the growing and turning towards the light, thus awakening what you may call the spirit complex, that which intensifies the upward spiraling towards the love and light of the Infinite Creator.

The addition of this spirit complex, though apparent rather than real, it having existed potentially from the beginning of space/time, perfects itself by graduation into third density. When the mind/body/spirit complex becomes aware of the possibility of service to self or other-self, then the mind/body/spirit complex is activated.

What is the nature of conciousness prior to incarnation in the first density? At this stage it would be neither mind body or spirit, unless it is some form of m/b/s complex of the previous octave?
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Adonai One
07-23-2014, 03:35 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-23-2014, 03:43 AM by Adonai One.)
#11
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
Consciousness can only be considered to be a mind from the eyes of a being that distinguishes between the conscious and unconscious, with the body being the unconscious elements that are moved, and the spirit being unconsciousness that is known and made conscious, the mind being consciousness of what exists, The Matrix.

Regardless of the duality of consciousness/unconsciousness, mind/body being existent or non-existent at a time before incarnation, The Matrix is the mind and can only be considered the mind in any case, as consciousness, awareness, thinking, intelligence, understanding, thought can only be ascribed to be a mind.

To say something is consciousness is not a mind is to say something of a form moves but does not have a body. It is to make wordplay that has no semblance of structure or logic, to make an exception that has no making and no reason to exist.

Any consciousness is absolute, positively mind no matter how you attempt to contort the nature of metaphysical consciousness as "above" what currently exists, when in face it instills itself into what currently exists. There is no transcendence in the origin of the universe as all is totally unified under The Law of One.

Mind = Awareness/Consciousness = Thought; There is quite literally no distinction made or any reason why any distinction between these terms should be assumed.
...only one important statement...All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.
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07-23-2014, 05:31 AM,
#12
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
Yes, Master.
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Adonai One
07-23-2014, 01:13 PM,
#13
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potenti...
Relevant -

Quote:67.28
With proper seeking or mind configuration, the power of will uses the spirit as a shuttle to contact the appropriate archetypical aspect necessary for the teach/learning. In the same way each of the other informers of intuition are contacted. They are hierarchical and proceed from the entity’s own subconscious mind to group or planetary mind, to guides, to higher self, to archetypical mind, to cosmic mind or intelligent infinity. Each is contacted by the spirit serving as shuttle according to the harmonized electromagnetic configuration of the seeker’s mind and the information sought.
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07-23-2014, 02:05 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-23-2014, 02:58 PM by Adonai One.)
#14
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
The mind informs the body, the body informs the spirit, the spirit informs the mind of greater consciousness and greater will and faith until the body complex of light or material is no longer used in the 7th-density, the spirit becoming all and dissolving as a concept as all that remains is timeless ideation of the next creation that may not have a body or spirit at all.

The spirit is used in progression, in evolution of the mind but once it reaches the apex of the spirit, it dissolves.

Quote:30.2...This spirit complex is the channel whereby the inpourings from all of the various universal, planetary, and personal inpourings may be funneled into the roots of consciousness and whereby consciousness may be funneled to the gateway of intelligent infinity through the balanced intelligent energy of body and mind.
...only one important statement...All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.
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07-23-2014, 02:21 PM,
#15
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
Quote:You will see by this series of definitive statements that mind, body, and spirit are inextricably intertwined and cannot continue, one without the other. Thus we refer to the mind/body/spirit complex rather than attempting to deal with them separately, for the work, shall we say, that you do during your experiences is done through the interaction of these three components, not through any one.
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07-23-2014, 02:22 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-23-2014, 02:24 PM by Adonai One.)
#16
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
In terms of the complex's progression of only individual complexes. This does not state the nature of the origin of creation as mind or spirit.

This does not apply here.
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07-23-2014, 02:31 PM,
#17
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
Nowhere states the origin of creation as mind or spirit, you are just making inferences.

Spirit concept existed at the beginning of this Octave/Creation as it was a concept harvested from the previous Octave.

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. At the beginning of this creation or, as you may call it, octave there were those things known which were the harvest of the preceding octave. About the preceding creation we know as little as we do of the octave to come. However, we are aware of those pieces of gathered concept which were the tools which the Creator had in the knowing of the self.

These tools were of two kinds. Firstly, there was an awareness of the efficiency for experience of mind, body, and spirit. Secondly, there was an awareness of the most efficacious nature or, if you will, significator of mind, body, and spirit. Thirdly, there was the awareness of two aspects of mind, of body, and of spirit that the significator could use to balance all catalyst. You may call these two the matrix and the potentiator.

Also, up there you say "The Matrix is the mind" but where does that correlate with anything? The archetypes are an aspect of mind/body/spirit, why would a single archetype correspond to a single one of the three when there is Matrix of Body, Matrix of Mind and Matrix of Spirit?
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07-23-2014, 02:57 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-23-2014, 02:59 PM by Adonai One.)
#18
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
It all started with one original thought, Tanner.

Additionally your quote only cites the efficiency of experience through these concepts. Nowhere does it state that infinity embodies those concepts as the foundation of creation.

I will cite this again:

Quote:30.2...This spirit complex is the channel whereby the inpourings from all of the various universal, planetary, and personal inpourings may be funneled into the roots of consciousness and whereby consciousness may be funneled to the gateway of intelligent infinity through the balanced intelligent energy of body and mind.
...only one important statement...All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.
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07-23-2014, 03:02 PM,
#19
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
Where exactly did that thought come from and how did a mind emerge apriori to the thought? The causal chain you suggest doesn't make any sense, there is a hole in the continuum. This sounds to me like calling mind God and saying that it doesn't need a cause but it caused itself, but why wouldn't that be true for anything else too? Why emphasize the concept of mind?
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07-23-2014, 03:25 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-23-2014, 03:25 PM by Rhayader.)
#20
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
(07-23-2014, 02:31 PM)Tanner Wrote:  Nowhere states the origin of creation as mind or spirit, you are just making inferences.

Spirit concept existed at the beginning of this Octave/Creation as it was a concept harvested from the previous Octave.

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. At the beginning of this creation or, as you may call it, octave there were those things known which were the harvest of the preceding octave. About the preceding creation we know as little as we do of the octave to come. However, we are aware of those pieces of gathered concept which were the tools which the Creator had in the knowing of the self.

So Ra is pretty much guessing? They were given some leftovers from a previous octave and came to their own conclusions of the progression of 1-7 but outside of that no one can possibly know.

(07-23-2014, 02:57 PM)Adonai One Wrote:  It all started with one original thought, Tanner.

Additionally your quote only cites the efficiency of experience through these concepts. Nowhere does it state that infinity embodies those concepts as the foundation of creation.

I will cite this again:

Quote:30.2...This spirit complex is the channel whereby the inpourings from all of the various universal, planetary, and personal inpourings may be funneled into the roots of consciousness and whereby consciousness may be funneled to the gateway of intelligent infinity through the balanced intelligent energy of body and mind.

That quote for me tends to suggest as our conciousness is therefore in some way a seperate entity, and the mind, body and spirit are just the tools. Perhaps as we see the body as the tool of the mind, and the spirit as the tool of the mind/body and as such the m/b/s complex is the tool of the conciousness? I think it encompasses so much more than just a m/b/s complex.
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07-23-2014, 03:57 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-23-2014, 03:59 PM by Adonai One.)
#21
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
I think there is nothing more to this universe than our individual mind expanded; Nothing more than the self knowing the self's thoughts completely; Knowledge being distilled and purified thought. I bid all of you good day.

There is nothing beyond you or I. There is nothing to overcome as our mind knows all in potential. I will not submit to the idea of anything being above me or above the knowledge of my own mind. I will continue to believe I am one with all things in common knowledge.

May the guests that read this thread consider all points well-defended for their use and teaching/learning.
...only one important statement...All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.
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isis
07-23-2014, 03:58 PM,
#22
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
In other words - you are solipsistic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism
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07-23-2014, 04:03 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-23-2014, 04:09 PM by Adonai One.)
#23
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
The Law of One is inherently a solipsistic philosophy.

Quote:10.14: Exercise Two. The universe is one being. When a mind/body/spirit complex views another mind/body/spirit complex, see the Creator. This is an helpful exercise.

12.7: The Creator is one being.

14.8: The One Being of the creation is like unto a body, if you will accept this third-density analogy.

51.2: The other type of experience is that of fourth, fifth, and sixth densities of other galaxies and some within your own galaxy which have learned the necessary disciplines of personality to view the universe as one being and, therefore, are able to proceed from locus to locus by thought alone...

83.3: If it can be seen that all are one being it becomes much more difficult for the undisciplined personality to choose one mate and, thereby, initiate itself into a program of service.

We are all that one being. One being entails one mind. There is no separation.

I think this seals the thread, btw.

Quote:79.20: The Matrix of Mind is that from which all comes. It is unmoving yet is the activator in potentiation of all mind activity.
...only one important statement...All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.
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isis
07-23-2014, 04:07 PM,
#24
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
Why assume our own mind exists?
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Adonai One
07-23-2014, 04:09 PM,
#25
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogito_ergo_sum
...only one important statement...All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.
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07-23-2014, 04:11 PM,
#26
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
Does thinking precede the being that is?

Edit: "Kierkegaard argues that the cogito already presupposes the existence of "I", and therefore concluding with existence is logically trivial." Basically my thoughts.
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Adonai One
07-23-2014, 04:19 PM,
#27
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
Show me a being without thought.
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07-23-2014, 04:49 PM,
#28
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
A rock.
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07-23-2014, 05:15 PM,
#29
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potentially"
(07-23-2014, 04:49 PM)Tanner Wrote:  A rock.

How do you know? Tongue
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07-23-2014, 05:42 PM,
#30
RE: "...spirit complex, though apparent rather than real...having existed potenti...
(07-23-2014, 05:15 PM)Steppenwolf Wrote:  
(07-23-2014, 04:49 PM)Tanner Wrote:  A rock.

How do you know? Tongue

I don't, I am not a rock, but therein lies the predicament of any such conjecture. Is imagination of an experience the same as an actual experience?
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