In regards to eating meat

[Patrick]

Nice synchronicity.

Today I received a letter from the SPCA (Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) asking for a donation.

[βαθμιαίος]

One reform that many of us might agree on would be to get the FDA to stop allowing prophylactic pharmaceuticals for livestock, or at least to require that meat and milk produced under such conditions be labeled as such. As I understand it, the CAFO operations could not continue without the "preventative" pharmaceuticals.

Re: fresh milk and local eggs -- I'm all in favor. One thing that Austin pointed out some time ago is that they do imply moderate meat eating, given that not all calves are female and egg layers do not live forever.

[3DMonkey]

Your post however represents a deliberately inflammatory and antagonistic remark. I cannot put myself into your shoes and find *any* other motivation than desire to hurt.

Well we are adapting somewhat. For me it is not just changing my angle of perception, it is changing my "time" of perception. I always have to go backwards to a younger period to understand some of his perspective.

While this is spiteful to some, it is really mainly spiteful to himself. There is a plea veiled in his words that appear now and then. Until he recognizes what he has attracted to himself he will not have access to the door that allows a helping hand to reach out to him.

I wonder if anyone has read your posts. "the meat eaters ate my arm"

[Monica]

Armchair XY is kind of a degrading term, isnt it?

Oh I don't think so. Some people have more time than money, while others might have more money than time. So it's good to match them up!

[3DMonkey]

Just because of this thread and for no other reason, I'm going to buy 20 pounds of meat for a barbecue this weekend.

3DMonkey, this is one of the most ridiculous, rude, spiteful things I've ever seen on the Bring4th Forums.

Granted this thread is *full* of two-way, mutual misunderstandings, hurt feelings, and inability to see eye-to-eye. Granted both "sides" have said things that have appeared antagonistic to the other. I have winced watching many people, vegetarians and meat-eaters alike, say things in ways which I know would not be received well by the other side.

Personally I think the central question in this thread is, "How can we learn to relate to one another when our views, which have practical real-world consequences, run so differently?"

"Which is better, to eat or not eat meat?" is a secondary question, in my opinion.

Regardless, the discord goes on. This thread has been a hornet's nest of mild tension. However that tension has always been kept within reasonable bounds, and each party, no matter how frustrated and "butthurt", still attempts at the end of the day to be somewhat fair and balanced -- a difficult act given how strong and deep the convictions go on this thread.

Your post however represents a deliberately inflammatory and antagonistic remark. I cannot put myself into your shoes and find *any* other motivation than desire to hurt.

Do this again, Monkey, and you're out.

Gary

PS: 1) I would have preferred to send this via PM but that route has failed miserably with you before. 2) Neither Monica nor any other seeker with vegetarian convictions alerted me to your post. I came across it on my own and reacted on my own.

Hmmm. There is a vegetarian recipe thread, and I can't go buy meat for a thread about eating meat. Well, subjectivity just smacked me on the forehead.


PS, you are invited to the barbecue anyway.

[BrownEye]

*claps* it only took around six hours for you to defuse your own bomb lol!

[3DMonkey]

*claps* it only took around six hours for you to defuse your own bomb lol!

You can come too, Pickle. My dog would like to meet you, I bet.

[BrownEye]

I would love to meet your dog. As long as it wasn't nuts like most of the dogs out here.

Today i thought about my old dog, and how she was perpetually happy and too full of energy. I had never considered a reflection, but i guess it was there.

I actually do not eat out or let others prepare food for me. After 7 years in a medical company, and seeing how many will leave the restroom without washing their hands, naw lol.

[Diana]

I actually do not eat out or let others prepare food for me. After 7 years in a medical company, and seeing how many will leave the restroom without washing their hands, naw lol.

I don't eat out either--only very rarely. It's not just the quality of the food, food handling, cleanliness, etc.; to me, it's also the energy put into the food.

[3DMonkey]

I would love to meet your dog. As long as it wasn't nuts like most of the dogs out here.

Today i thought about my old dog, and how she was perpetually happy and too full of energy. I had never considered a reflection, but i guess it was there.

I actually do not eat out or let others prepare food for me. After 7 years in a medical company, and seeing how many will leave the restroom without washing their hands, naw lol.

My dog is super chill. He has never liked opening his mouth or licking. He'll sniff your crotch to no end, tho.

Yeah, it's very annoying how many guys don't bother to wash their hands.

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I actually do not eat out or let others prepare food for me. After 7 years in a medical company, and seeing how many will leave the restroom without washing their hands, naw lol.

I don't eat out either--only very rarely. It's not just the quality of the food, food handling, cleanliness, etc.; to me, it's also the energy put into the food.

It's just not appetizing. You can tell when a meal is cooked with love.

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Bacon and eggs at home is the most loving meal for me. (I'm serious and I'm not trying to be an ass)

[Patrick]

It's possible. Is it possible to be an activist without showing others where you disagree with them ?

That's a serious question I have for everyone. I am currently contemplating this subject.

Maybe a better way of phrasing this question would be: How to be an activist without showing others where you disagree with them ?

Why does it matter if they see a disagreement? That is part of the growth. Growth takes place because of the disagreement. The analogy of getting booted out of Eden.

On an individual basis the activation comes from following the will through the green vortex.

On a group basis it is the combining of this same will in unity.

"Why does it matter if they see a disagreement?"

Because I want them to feel understood. I want them to feel accepted. I want them to feel welcomed within my sphere of influence.

I find this really difficult to do here in 3d. It seems like a paradox to me. I feel that I should be able to do so 100%, but I'm not able to. This saddens me.

This is what I am working my way through right now.

To please you guys here, I should stop eating meat. To please my loved ones, I should continue to eat meat. To please Monkey, I should laugh with him at his harsh BBQ joke. To please my Self I would like all to be pleased and in joy, including my Self.

You see where that's going ?

[βαθμιαίος]

Because I want them to feel understood. I want them to feel accepted. I want them to feel welcomed within my sphere of influence.

Could it be a green ray/blue ray issue?

41.25 Green ray is the movement through various experiences of energy exchanges having to do with compassion and all-forgiving love to the primary blue ray which is the first ray of radiation of self regardless of any actions from another.

The green-ray entity is ineffectual in the face of blockage from other-selves. The blue-ray entity is a co-Creator.

I remember you said that you are here to learn compassion and to balance an overabundance of wisdom. But in this case it sounds like maybe you are feeling green ray to be ineffectual and are working to radiate the self regardless of the other-self distortions.

[Patrick]

41.25 Green ray is the movement through various experiences of energy exchanges having to do with compassion and all-forgiving love to the primary blue ray which is the first ray of radiation of self regardless of any actions from another.

The green-ray entity is ineffectual in the face of blockage from other-selves. The blue-ray entity is a co-Creator.

I remember you said that you are here to learn compassion and to balance an overabundance of wisdom. But in this case it sounds like maybe you are feeling green ray to be ineffectual and are working to radiate the self regardless of the other-self distortions.

Thank you for that quote.

I said that yes. What I did not say is that I believe I have succeeded in this endeavor. Of course, I am still balancing. It is becoming ever more subtle. I do co-create. Life has demonstrated this to me multiple times, even before my awakening. Aren't we all co-creators ?

"...working to radiate the self regardless of the other-self distortions."

I'm not sure I really grasp this part. I understood this part to be about blue ray. It seems to me that being balanced in both green and blue, I would not radiate the self without regards to other selves?

EDIT: Just realized that these posts probably do not belong in this thread.

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102.11 Each entity must, in order to completely unblock yellow ray, love all which are in relationship to it, with hope only of the other-selves’ joy, peace, and comfort.

I do have some blockages in yellow ray. So maybe that is what I am currently working on. I take "which are in relationship to it" to mean within my sphere of influence.

[Monica]

Because I want them to feel understood. I want them to feel accepted. I want them to feel welcomed within my sphere of influence.

I find this really difficult to do here in 3d. It seems like a paradox to me. I feel that I should be able to do so 100%, but I'm not able to. This saddens me.

This is what I am working my way through right now.

To please you guys here, I should stop eating meat. To please my loved ones, I should continue to eat meat. To please Monkey, I should laugh with him at his harsh BBQ joke. To please my Self I would like all to be pleased and in joy, including my Self.

You see where that's going ?

I don't think that's what acceptance is about at all. Acceptance doesn't mean we have to live up to the expectations of another. That would be impossible anyway! And that would totally negate choice.

If you didn't feel like laughing at Monkey's comment, then it's not acceptance to laugh anyway just to please Monkey. (sorry, Monkey, hope you don't mind - this is just an example! NOT saying you expected him to laugh!)

If I, as a vegetarian, am displeased that you eat meat, that's my problem/challenge, not yours. I must accept you regardless of what you do, for me to 'accept' you.

And for me to accept you, doesn't mean I have to agree with your 'choice' to eat meat! I can simultaneously accept you and still disagree about eating meat.

Yes, it's paradoxical, but then, Ra did say they were here to teach us about resolution of paradox. That's where the power of choice resides, in my understanding. To simultaneously accept and choose, even if it's an entirely different choice, is very powerful and can help facilitate forgiveness. (but that's a whole 'nother topic.)

[βαθμιαίος]

"...working to radiate the self regardless of the other-self distortions."

I'm not sure I really grasp this part. I understood this part to be about blue ray. It seems to me that being balanced in both green and blue, I would not radiate the self without regards to other selves?

I'm reminded of the sun which shines upon saint and sinner alike.

EDIT: Just realized that these posts probably do not belong in this thread.

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Ah, well, this thread has taken everything else we've thrown at it. Surely it can handle this, too.

[Patrick]

I don't think that's what acceptance is about at all. Acceptance doesn't mean we have to live up to the expectations of another. That would be impossible anyway! And that would totally negate choice.

If you didn't feel like laughing at Monkey's comment, then it's not acceptance to laugh anyway just to please Monkey. (sorry, Monkey, hope you don't mind - this is just an example! NOT saying you expected him to laugh!)

If I, as a vegetarian, am displeased that you eat meat, that's my problem/challenge, not yours. I must accept you regardless of what you do, for me to 'accept' you.

And for me to accept you, doesn't mean I have to agree with your 'choice' to eat meat! I can simultaneously accept you and still disagree about eating meat.

Yes, it's paradoxical, but then, Ra did say they were here to teach us about resolution of paradox. That's where the power of choice resides, in my understanding. To simultaneously accept and choose, even if it's an entirely different choice, is very powerful and can help facilitate forgiveness. (but that's a whole 'nother topic.)

"Acceptance doesn't mean we have to live up to the expectations of another."

I think you're right. I want others to be in joy, but I want my self to be in joy too. I want all to be in joy.

This it seems cannot be, at least in 3d, and that is something I could accept.

I would say that this is what I am currently working on. This quote resonates very deeply with me at this time.

102.11 Each entity must, in order to completely unblock yellow ray, love all which are in relationship to it, with hope only of the other-selves’ joy, peace, and comfort.

Removing blockages in yellow ray within my sphere of influence seems like what I am going through right now.

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"...working to radiate the self regardless of the other-self distortions."

I'm not sure I really grasp this part. I understood this part to be about blue ray. It seems to me that being balanced in both green and blue, I would not radiate the self without regards to other selves?

I'm reminded of the sun which shines upon saint and sinner alike.

Ah yes, I see what you mean. I love your analogy.

[Steppingfeet]

Dear homeskillets,

You all need a bathroom break - you've been holding it in for quite some time and we can see some of you getting really ancy in your seats, doing the "I'm about to explode!" dance.

For that reason, the mods are temporarily closing this thread pending further discussion. Among our options, we will consider submitting this thread to the Smithsonian, "archiving" it in a hole in the backyard, or etching it onto the next gold-plated satellite that leaves the solar system with messages of life on planet Earth for advanced alien civilizations.

Seriously we're gonna put our heads together and... come up with something.

In the meantime, please take a breather. Or a nap. Or a pleasant weekend drive. Whichever suits your fancy.

Love you lots, Moddie the Moderator

[Steppingfeet]

This thread continued here: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=5065

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Howdy forums -

A brief explanation is needed regarding why this thread is being closed. Firstly, the closure does *not* represent:

--A favoring of one "side" of the debate over the other
--A reflection of the moderators' personal feelings on vegetarianism vs. omnivorism

The moderators see validity in many sides of this debate. This is not intended as a diplomatic platitude, but rather a reflection of our *actual* thinking. There are good sources of information, solid points, and compelling arguments all around. (Personally this author has resolved to eat only meat that is humanely raised as a result of information presented in this thread.)

Though a wide range of consciousness is represented in this thread, including both negative and positive aspects, it has in significant respects been an open sore in the community, an energy drain occasionally erupting into forum-detuning antagonism, disharmony, and discontent.

After receiving some feedback from various members, the moderators thought it would be best to, at the very least, take a break from this thread in order to allow the more negative aspects of this discussion to settle and dissipate. Additionally, the mods hope to perhaps lift the energy of this thread into higher expression, and are actively working on constructive solutions to that end.

We thank you all for your patience and your understanding. After three years, 149 pages, and 2,961 posts, we think this particular vortex of energy has earned itself a break.

With love, Mods

PS: If you have any feedback regarding this thread, whether it should be open or closed, and ideas regarding creative solutions for shifting the tone of the thread, please by all means drop the mods a line! We'd love to hear from you. : )