Bring4th

"17.29 Questioner: Am I to understand that the harvest will occur in the year 2011, or will it be spread?

Ra: I am Ra. This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest. Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest."

"40.8 Questioner: Then what will be the time of transition on this planet from third to fourth density?

Ra: I am Ra. This is difficult to estimate due to the uncharacteristic anomalies of this transition. There are at this space/time nexus beings incarnate which have begun fourth-density work. However, the third-density climate of planetary consciousness is retarding the process. At this particular nexus the possibility/probability vortices indicate somewhere between 100 and 700 of your years as transition period. This cannot be accurate due to the volatility of your peoples at this space/time."

So Ra stated harvest at 2011 but state inaccuracies as being probable. The question when will the actual harvest happen? On the one hand its stated a specific time, on the other hand Ra says 100-700 years. Is "transition from 3rd to 4th D" different than harvest? Or are they the same?

The general consensus here is it will happen gradually over that 100-700 (70-670) year timeframe. Upon the natural physical death, each entity will have the opportunity to walk the steps of light to place themselves in the appropriate density.

However, I personally still have been unable to reconcile the portion of that quote that states approximately 2011. I don't think Ra was mistaken when they stated that portion of it. To me, there is clearly a dynamic of harvest / 3rd to 4th transition that was not fully inquired about. I hope to clarify that point some time in this lifetime.

Why are we so concerned with an arbitrary number that is linear and non-extent. It shall happen when ever it does so as not to matter, and what ever fashion including separation, comet impacts, disease, nuclear warfare, as possibilities. It simply does not matter.

One thing to keep in mind is that Ra stated that our number system was highly foreign to them so discrepancies in numerical data they provided (like the 1000+ year error for the date of the pyramids construction) have occurred within the contact.

But the argument about gradual/abrupt harvest was finished a while ago, there's a thread somewhere, it may be of use to you.

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Here it is
http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=3610

Yes yes, that has been discussed ad nauseum. I also factored in the possibility of a numerical error, which I think the odds of that are near 0%, due to them asking the timeframe in a totally different way earlier in this session. They say 30 years earlier in the session, then ask from a different angle and ask if it would approximately be 2011. Ra would have noticed at that point if there was a numerical error.

Again, what I'm trying to figure out is what exactly is being referred to in several points in this session without simply ignoring them (reductionalism).

I don't think the idea of a harvest event and a gradual transformation of society are irreconcilable. It could be that the event Ra alludes to is one that potentiates (to borrow Ra's term) the possibility of harvest into fourth density, but that the actual transformation has to play out in linear of time according to the rules the physical illusion that we have subconsciously agreed to.

In other words, the elements required to transform our experience are already here and now the challenge is to consciously implement them, which requires reflection on what we as a people want for ourselves and our world.

I find a lot of people think of a harvest type event in terms of an outside force coming to harvest humanity; the angels coming and carrying the good people to heaven for example. I feel the harvest is a far more personal event, an opportunity for the entity to 'harvest' the experiences stored in the violet ray chakra and, analyzing what they find, choosing the next step in their evolution based on what the polarized charge of the energy stored there and the vibrational level the entity is able to sustain.

I don't think the physics of 3D and our bodies allow for a rapid transition to 4D, which is electrical in nature according to Ra. They said if 3D were aware of 4D in full, the 3D electric fields would fail due to incompatibility. Sounds like an interesting way to die.

Whether I am harvestable or not, or harvested in this life or not, I can still be joyful in the moment. It's a choice. Even when life seems dark, I can choose to see Creator in everything. That's dang hard to do sometimes. But I think it's worth it.

Spaced, I like how you put it about harvest type event. The actual transformation indeed has to play out in linear time. There's no way to force the change. No region of space we are entering into that is more highly vibrating. Harvest is a time/space phenomenon.

Society is currently changing fast, really fast ! Whether one sees this depends on ones perspective.

I am sure there are reasons why people were so interested in dates and events, for whatever personal reasons. It seemed to give people hope that suffering would cease or we'd be 'upgraded' instantly, without putting in personal effort to make big changes. When there is hope there's likely a reason to look forward to something that will alter things they may not be satisfied with. Hope adds temporary fuel to one's 'engines'. This hyped-event & subsequent disappointment was opportunity for catalyst to be examined. We can't really see the 'bigger picture' of what happened so we can't say this 2011 or 2012 or 2015 was major or not major in our evolutionary/developmental process. That we shall see when we pass on and our veils are removed.

(12-03-2013, 06:11 PM)Parsons Wrote: [ -> ]The general consensus here is it will happen gradually over that 100-700 (70-670) year timeframe. Upon the natural physical death, each entity will have the opportunity to walk the steps of light to place themselves in the appropriate density.

However, I personally still have been unable to reconcile the portion of that quote that states approximately 2011. I don't think Ra was mistaken when they stated that portion of it. To me, there is clearly a dynamic of harvest / 3rd to 4th transition that was not fully inquired about. I hope to clarify that point some time in this lifetime.

"This is just a possibility. I have no proof, and I have no desire for arguments"; that being said:

There seems to be another possibility.

That Harvest indeed already happened around 2011-2012.

There should be no break in continuity in local laws (especially regarding space-time). Harvest happens in time-space. There was no trance episode (break in continuity), however we are able to access time-space during sleep, on a daily basis.

Harvest is an anomaly, violet ray (intelligent infinity) is accessed. However, it is a clock-like event (and being "harvestable" does not seem to be the work of only one incarnation). I do not think Ra would have made such a mistake without correcting it.

What is sleep ? What are dreams ? What is time-space ?
During sleep, silver cord is still connecting the mind/spirit to the 3d yellow body (As a matter of fact the Ra material was a time-space/space-time communication, Carla being still attached via the silver cord so not "dead").

This is my current thought.

Sleep is a form of "semi-death". Harvest can happen while asleep. Especially if it was scheduled to occur due to the cyclical nature of it. So, you have harvest without breaking the laws of continuity.

What we are witnessing now is a transition to 4D which seems to be somewhat volatile.

again. i have no proof and is just opinion.

(12-04-2013, 08:47 AM)Jamie35 Wrote: [ -> ]Why are we so concerned with an arbitrary number that is linear and non-extent. It shall happen when ever it does so as not to matter, and what ever fashion including separation, comet impacts, disease, nuclear warfare, as possibilities. It simply does not matter.

So that we can know how much time we have left.

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(12-07-2013, 02:59 PM)Parsons Wrote: [ -> ]Yes yes, that has been discussed ad nauseum. I also factored in the possibility of a numerical error, which I think the odds of that are near 0%, due to them asking the timeframe in a totally different way earlier in this session. They say 30 years earlier in the session, then ask from a different angle and ask if it would approximately be 2011. Ra would have noticed at that point if there was a numerical error.

Again, what I'm trying to figure out is what exactly is being referred to in several points in this session without simply ignoring them (reductionalism).

I feel like that repetition doesnt matter. I feel like Ra's viewing into this highly distorted plane causes difficulty with their calculations. The two repetitions of information occured predictably because they were told rather close to eachother so it was around the same sort of metaphysical envrionment and disortions.

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I would like to quote this from whom I think is Hatton though dont quote me on that.

"There is a season upon your planet which shall be highly traumatic
within your physical illusion. The physical reasons for this are varied.
Your scientists will spend a great deal of time, while they can, in
attempting to catalog and describe each of the conditions which will
produce disaster on this physical plane of your planet. That which your
scientists speak of is quite so, and will be part of the program which has
been predicted by all of those holy works which you have upon the face
of the Earth.
It is not either permissible or possible for us to tell you precisely what
events will occur, or when they will occur, due to the fact that the
vibration within the mind and heart of the peoples upon your planet is
determining and will determine the precise events. There is within the
planet Earth a great deal of karma which must be adjusted as the cycle
changes, and these things will manifest. Precisely when, and how, we
cannot say, nor would we wish to, my friends. For the rain, and the
wind, and fire, will destroy only those things which are in what you call
the third density of vibration. You may value those things because you
cannot imagine what a fourth-density existence will be like. We suggest
to you that you spend no time concerning yourselves with the effort of
maintaining your third density existence after the vibration change to
fourth density has been completed.
If, within your spirit, your graduation day has come, those things
necessary for your emergence into fourth density will be done for you.
All will be accomplished by helpers which you must be aware that you
have.
It is extremely possible that damage will occur to those things which
you identify with yourself in the third density. If we may speak plainly,
you will observe the valley of the shadow of death. These very words,
my friends, have been spoken to you before, and yet you cling to that
physical body and those physical surroundings as though your spirit
were attached quite permanently to them. Introduction
34
May we suggest to you that you can find your spirit neither in your
head, nor in your hands, nor in your chest, nor in your legs, nor in your
feet, that nowhere can you find your spirit; nowhere can you operate to
remove it, nor to aid it. Your spirit resides within a shell. The shell may
be removed, but that is no matter. The spirit does not perish."

I have a hunch that the Harvest will happen in a few to a few dozen years, will be sudden, and very apocalyptic. However possibly the Harvest already happened and the "Transition" will occur over 100-700 years as they said but I still believe a "highly traumatic season" will come. If anyone has read Whitley Streibers work, from which "The Day After Tommorrow" was based called "The Key" where an entity allegedly contacted him, who said that there will be a presice time (like Ra says) when Pisces changes to Aquarius, which will be apocalyptic in nature, and will be happening soon enough. So if one would believe in that one would think that the Harvest has not happened yet and when it does thing will get very messy. Either way, since I sincerley choose to beleive in the Confederation material, as whoever that entity from the quote is, soon enough there WILL be a highly traumatic season, so I suppose we'd all do all the things we want to before that event.

It's not just the repetition, it's the fact it was restated in a different manner.

I understand that they had difficulties with numbers, but where does one draw the line if you start picking and choosing which numbers to throw out? If I recall correctly, Ra only gave the 100-700 year timeframe once. Should we toss that number out based soley on that criteria? Perhaps they meant 10-70 years, or 1000 - 7000 years?

A very large chunk of this community seems to take that particular number to heart based on past discussions (myself included). It seems rather arbitrary that we focus on that number so much more than the 30 years number. Using the argument that a number is probably inaccurate due to Ra's difficulty with numbers simply isn't helpful because it's a double edged sword: it can thus be applied to any number in the channelings.

So, rather than toss out numbers based on my own personal bias, I choose to keep all numbers and logically compare them to the rest of the material. This is by no means a fool-proof method as this is what Don used to make statements to Ra, which were sometimes correct and incorrect according to Ra.

To be honest, the only way I see this being clarified properly to this community's satisfaction is if we actually get to query Ra again.

In the meantime, I can't toss out the 30 years quotes because there are other parts of the material that support it (such as Ra stating there is no reason to worry about longevity). I no longer believe there will be a transition where there will be a snap of the fingers switchover to 'full' 4D and I think the full transition will be in 70+ years, but I also think there is something happening now which was referred to by Ra.

I can toss around theories as to what was being alluded to, but they would be just that: mere extrapolations based on the material coupled with my own personal bias.

Also seems Ra was somewhat indulgent of Don's worldview which could be interpreted by the reader as confirmation of circumstances or historical reality.

Does consensus reality govern your reality? Maybe every entity is on their own timeline. Which timeline are you manifesting for yourself?

(12-09-2013, 11:58 PM)xise Wrote: [ -> ]Does consensus reality govern your reality? Maybe every entity is on their own timeline. Which timeline are you manifesting for yourself?

I'm not sure if there is a consensus reality. If each entity has their own reality which at least partially conforms to their overall vibration, I think there would still be various realities which overlapped in which those with similar belief systems/vibrations would experience various overlapping events.

I see it as; all babies born after 21/12/12 are positive.

I believe there is a consensus reality in that we accept the consensus of views to affect the personal/individual world as well.

Some are likely more disconnected and possibly experiences a very different and more translucent world. Most accept what is 'cited' as our world through various media channels.

I think it's important to expand our views from 'either/or' to 'and/also'.

Many seem to view the traumatic stages as something external. War, poverty, famine, disease, etc.
I would like to offer that these traumatic stages has been going on and growing rapidly in what we call 'mental diseases' and 'mental conditions'. ADHD, ADD, Aspberger and Autism is likely only the tip of the iceberg and represents the pinnacle of, mostly, unwanted trauma.
In addition to this we have women, in general, where mental discomfort and issues are growing at a more rapid rate than ever before. Just in Sweden we note that every 6 in 10 females of 30 and below report psychological illness or ill-being. There is possibly more than this.

What this may trigger at critical mass is unknown and, from what I read, can be what the quote Misha brought is aiming to shed light on.

I also believe we are still well inside the 'window opportunity' as it likely stretches some 100-700 years in span. Even the most 'pessimistic' or 'narrow' calculation puts us firmly inside 50-60 years left.

Alot is likely to happen in that span of time as events have the habit of speeding up in occurences when coupled with instant information technology =).

(12-10-2013, 07:14 AM)Bang Kaew Wrote: [ -> ]I see it as; all babies born after 21/12/12 are positive.

Being still subject to the veil they can choose to make bad choices.

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(12-10-2013, 07:39 AM)ChickenInSpace Wrote: [ -> ]I would like to offer that these traumatic stages has been going on and growing rapidly in what we call 'mental diseases' and 'mental conditions'. ADHD, ADD, Aspberger and Autism is likely only the tip of the iceberg and represents the pinnacle of, mostly, unwanted trauma.

Schizophrenia and Schizoaffective disorders are also very common. This includes delusions of grandeur such as there being a harvest. It's really a grand idea, and it's easy to get sidetracked into believing one is harvestable. I also tend to believe that higher densities are grandeur as well, and it's easy to believe in them when they seem so extraordinary. Imagining a density where I can fly only further distorts my perception of reality and gives power to my disease. Who knows, maybe later I'll change my mind, but I have to be very careful, because such grandiosity can make me psychotic. I've had psychotic episodes in the past.

(12-10-2013, 07:39 AM)ChickenInSpace Wrote: [ -> ]I also believe we are still well inside the 'window opportunity' as it likely stretches some 100-700 years in span. Even the most 'pessimistic' or 'narrow' calculation puts us firmly inside 50-60 years left.

Alot is likely to happen in that span of time as events have the habit of speeding up in occurrences when coupled with instant information technology =).

Why would a shorter transition be pessimistic?

Parsons: Common conception would call the lowest calculated span of year 'pessimistic'. I used ' to note that these are synonymous words and not to be taken literally. If I was unclear I'm sorry.

I carry the belief that Ra really wanted to bring forth the thought that this shift would be made within 1 to maybe 3 generations and the 'longer' timespan only refers to a greater age for humans.

GW: You are right that schizo-related disorders are also on the rise although they are less pandemic in spread in the mainstream discourse.
Personally I can't call Harvest, as such, for a grand idea. When applied to everyday life you will find you are 'Harvested' as soon as you improve your skill in anything or gain new insights. You gain possibility and may also move up within the infinite octaves within the octave within the octave within the octave.
Your specific problems are well known to us as you speak of them in nearly all your posts. I understand why you have problem seeing it in the particular way you have historically viewed the Ra material and its meanings.

(12-11-2013, 04:37 AM)ChickenInSpace Wrote: [ -> ]Your specific problems are well known to us as you speak of them in nearly all your posts. I understand why you have problem seeing it in the particular way you have historically viewed the Ra material and its meanings.

I try not to bring it up anymore unless someone asks me about it.

How do you think I have viewed the Ra material in the past?

according to cassiopaeans, ascension is postponed to 2018. they had said 5 more years after 2012

(12-11-2013, 02:39 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2013, 04:37 AM)ChickenInSpace Wrote: [ -> ]Your specific problems are well known to us as you speak of them in nearly all your posts. I understand why you have problem seeing it in the particular way you have historically viewed the Ra material and its meanings.

I try not to bring it up anymore unless someone asks me about it.

How do you think I have viewed the Ra material in the past?

Like you told us; in the grandeur and megalomanic kind of way. I base my assumptions made in this post from this: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=8418
Which, by the way, is great to have you write openly about in a constructive manner in its own place, because it deserves it rather than the kind of shattered bits and pieces scattered across multiple threads and posts.

I think you may be going in defensive without being attacked here. I was not entirely sure you noticed that you bring up your own issues in most posts. I clarified in hopes that you would see the pattern but I understand if it feels like a reprimand.

I never said you could never bring the subject of your issues up. Please don't put meanings I never offered into my message.

All of this is rather off topic but I'd rather say this to avoid any misconceptions!

ChickenInSpace Wrote:Many seem to view the traumatic stages as something external. War, poverty, famine, disease, etc.

The prevalence of mental health disorder is still highest in countries with sectarian violence according to the WHO.

ChickenInSpace Wrote:I would like to offer that these traumatic stages has been going on and growing rapidly in what we call 'mental diseases' and 'mental conditions'. ADHD, ADD, Aspberger and Autism is likely only the tip of the iceberg and represents the pinnacle of, mostly, unwanted trauma.

Not more people suffering or more sick people per say, altho there is element of truth in that. In the US, a projected 50% of the population will now qualify as 'mentally ill' thanks to DSM 5. Lots of reason, which you may read about it in articles below.

ChickenInSpace Wrote:In addition to this we have women, in general, where mental discomfort and issues are growing at a more rapid rate than ever before. Just in Sweden we note that every 6 in 10 females of 30 and below report psychological illness or ill-being. There is possibly more than this.

Women are generally more likely to seek out services bc it's more socially acceptable for women to have problems and seek help. It's socially acceptable to be vulnerable. 

What you see is a natural progression due to how system was designed and how our social evolution unfolded. What does ADHD, autism spectrum, and such have to do with trauma?

Factors Influencing the Increased Prevalence of Mental Illness:
http://www.madinamerica.com/2012/07/fact...l-illness/

Abnormal Is the New Normal: Why will half of the U.S. population have a diagnosable mental disorder?
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and...ation.html

The increasing prevalence of mental disorders
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007...847#page-1

The Epidemic of Mental Illness: Why?
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives...lness-why/

Ra was bound by free will above all else. They stated several times that they could not comment on details that would affect the decisions of the group in the future. A question to consider then, would be why Ra would talk about a future event that clearly has caused stress and confusion, even though they also continually pointed towards living in the moment and the unimportance of specifics. It would seem that telling people that "something is coming" would be a severe infringement, unless using fear as a motivator is acceptable.

Part of the contact involved negative attempts of manipulation..getting Don to ask irrelevant details that would degrade the quality of the contact, which would provide all sorts of confusion like we have here. I discuss how the channeling was possibly influenced by the negative entity targeting the group in session 17 in this thread. It is a bit far-out, and talking about how Ra is attempting to correct details outside of time may seem like a stretch, but there are some very worthwhile observations within that thread. For instance, why would Ra suddenly realize several sessions later that they gave an incorrect historical date in session 14, then feel the need to correct a completely irrelevant detail? I think Ra was leaving a metaphorical clue, which Ra did from time to time.

I think the degree in which you progress within, combined with external service, possibly accelerates and transforms the exterior in the magical sense (unexpected positive progress worldwide). Surely the more people that are actively serving creates a greater and greater environment of harmony and service to others. So in that sense you are responsible for the harvest.

If we have an opportunity to ask Ra about Harvest again and clarify what Harvest is, how it works etc. how would we go about it?


Icaro, that thread is epic.

(12-12-2013, 04:26 AM)ChickenInSpace Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2013, 02:39 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2013, 04:37 AM)ChickenInSpace Wrote: [ -> ]Your specific problems are well known to us as you speak of them in nearly all your posts. I understand why you have problem seeing it in the particular way you have historically viewed the Ra material and its meanings.

I try not to bring it up anymore unless someone asks me about it.

How do you think I have viewed the Ra material in the past?

Like you told us; in the grandeur and megalomanic kind of way. I base my assumptions made in this post from this: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=8418

I never noticed that was the way I viewed the material. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I can learn to begin to see the Ra Material with grounded eyes. I think I'm starting to find my center. I realize I talk about my problems in many of my posts, and will try my best to not continue to bring them up. I just wasn't certain that I had already posted about them before which is why I bring them up so much.

Truthfully I think we have all we need to know. They said in several ways that the time of the harvest is now. We bring a lot of unconscious expectations and beliefs to the material that causes us to read and interpret things in different ways. Over the years, we get to see people's viewpoints change and evolve on here, mine included, as we strive to understand what Ra was trying to say regarding all sorts of things.

Ha..yes, epic is a good word for it. The ideas came to me out of nowhere, and I definitely felt like I was channeling something (felt energy around me and went through some peculiar things).

You're right, it can seem epic.

(12-12-2013, 05:47 PM)rie Wrote: [ -> ]If we have an opportunity to ask Ra about Harvest again and clarify what Harvest is, how it works etc. how would we go about it?


Icaro, that thread is epic.

The questions would have to be formatted very carefully as to fill some vagaries. I really need to sit down and carefully formulate some questions which I hope would clarify the dynamics of harvest, specifically what was being referred to occurring around this time.

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(12-12-2013, 06:05 PM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]Truthfully I think we have all we need to know. They said in several ways that the time of the harvest is now. We bring a lot of unconscious expectations and beliefs to the material that causes us to read and interpret things in different ways. Over the years, we get to see people's viewpoints change and evolve on here, mine included, as we strive to understand what Ra was trying to say regarding all sorts of things.

Ha..yes, epic is a good word for it. The ideas came to me out of nowhere, and I definitely felt like I was channeling something (felt energy around me and went through some peculiar things).

By your very same argument, I could argue that you are potentially biased unconsciously towards not having to worry about it in this lifetime.

Furthermore, I would say that based on a channeling that only went on 3 years and abruptly ended in the loss of one member of the group, that there is potentially a ton of information that was not garnered from the original channeling. IMO that kind of attitude is tending towards religion/dogma rather than having fresh information come in. I will admit that the areas that Don questioned about were covered fairly comprehensively, but I think there were a few weak points, most especially this specific dynamic of harvest. Plus I think there were areas that were never conceived of that have a lot of potential for questions to Ra.