(10-31-2019, 01:52 PM)kristina Wrote: According to the man in the video there is no self.

(11-01-2019, 03:34 AM)RitaJC Wrote:

(10-31-2019, 01:52 PM)kristina Wrote: According to the man in the video there is no self.

That's not exactly what RS meant to convey.

(10-31-2019, 08:52 AM)Nau7ik Wrote: We have a very important clue into how the mind works: the Tarot archetypes.

Until the mind has been potentiated, the subconscious is not producing the personally valuable material which can be worked on consciously. Most people are not aware of the catalyst that they are working with (ie experience). When the WILL is focused and directed towards seeking greater understanding of the self, does the subconscious fist become ennobled and then the conscious mind is thereby “ennobled”.  With firm authority does the Emperor grasp that which is given him. It’s being given from himself; the Empress aspect, the potentiated subconscious.

The Significant Self must also be considered as it is a highly developed portion of our being. It is partially influenced by the veil but not entirely. It is the Significator who has the Will to choose, and choose he does. It is at the instigation of the Significator that we seek to know ourselves and this begins the whole process of Initiation (of Mind).

(10-31-2019, 08:52 AM)Nau7ik Wrote: It is our choice what we shall do with the Catalyst we are given. Catalyst ceases being random as our consciousness becomes awakened to greater spiritual reality. Then we take part in this planning (The Significator). Then that pre chosen catalyst is given during the incarnation. Where is the free will then?

It is then that we may choose (Significator) what to do with that Catalyst (The Emperor). The Significator also contains previous incarnation biases with which to meet these new experiences. These are biases he had developed in previous lifetimes, which were seen to be good qualities for the soul, for the spiritual path.

(10-31-2019, 08:52 AM)Nau7ik Wrote: I do like how you frame free will as individual will. As we refine our choice making ability, our Will becomes focused and clearer. That Will is uniquely personal to each individual. I also believe that we will find down the line that our True Will is congruent with the Creator’s Will.

(10-31-2019, 01:52 PM)kristina Wrote: According to the man in the video there is no self. So then, can we agree then why are we here? Or are we not here? It's just The Creator that is here/nowhere? So, there is nothing to examine, nothing to experience, nothing to hurt for or cry over, or laugh or feel for. No Earth, no sunlight no anything to...There is no entity inside of me in which has a chemical reaction to serotonin, calcium or to potassium. There is no me and there is no you. Why worry about serotonin? Forget it. Do as you wish because there is nothing more to do with that one you call you. You are not.

(10-31-2019, 08:07 PM)Dekalb_Blues Wrote: Why are you seeking? You are the same as It. Its essence speaks through you. You have been looking for yourself.

Study the One as much as you like, you will not know It, for It differs in a hundred ways from what you see It to be. 
Put yourself behind Its eyes and see It as It sees Itself, for It has chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see.

If in ultimate thirst you drink water from a cup, you see the One's face in it. Those who are not this thirsty will see only 
their own faces in it.

Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment.

---Rumi




1.10 ▶ Questioner: Another question. Is it possible to create any acceleration of understanding [in] other entities [or are] all efforts… efforts by the individual on himself accelerating his understanding? In other words, if an individual tries to act as a catalyst in general to increase the awareness of planetary consciousness, is he doing nothing but acting upon himself or is it possible [inaudible]?

Ra: I am Ra. We shall answer your question in two parts, both of which are important equally.

Firstly, you must understand that the distinction between yourself and others is not visible to us. We do not consider that a separation exists between the consciousness-raising efforts of the distortion which you project as a personality and the distortion which you project as an other personality. Thus, to learn is the same as to teach unless you are not teaching what you are learning; in which case you have done you/they little or no good. This understanding should be pondered by your mind/body/spirit complex as it is a distortion which plays a part in your experiences at this nexus.

To turn to the second part of our response may we state our understanding, limited though it is.

[Side two of the tape of session 1 was taped over by the Sunday night meditation which followed it. The following is as published in Book I.]

Group-individuated consciousness is that state of sharing understanding with the other distortions of mind/body/spirit complexes, which are within the evident reach of the mind/body/spirit complex individual or group. Thus, we are speaking to you and accepting both our distortions and your own in order to enunciate the laws of creation, more especially the Law of One. We are not available to many of your peoples, for this is not an easily understood way of communication or type of philosophy. However, our very being is hopefully a poignant example of both the necessity and the near-hopelessness of attempting to teach.

Each of those in this group is striving to use, digest, and diversify the information which we are sending this instrument into the channels of the mind/body/spirit complex without distortion. The few whom you will illuminate by sharing your light are far more than enough reason for the greatest possible effort. To serve one is to serve all. Therefore, we offer the question back to you to state that indeed it is the only activity worth doing: to learn/teach or teach/learn. There is nothing else which is of aid in demonstrating the original thought except your very being, and the distortions that come from the unexplained, inarticulate, or mystery-clad being are many. Thus, to attempt to discern and weave your way through as many group mind/body/spirit distortions as possible among your peoples in the course of your teaching is a very good effort to make. We can speak no more valiantly of your desire to serve.


77.18 ▶ Questioner: I guess, under the first distortion, it was the free will of the Logos to choose to evolve without free will. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.




[font=sans-serif]63.30 ▶ Questioner: I understand that the Logos did not plan for the heating effect that occurs in our third-density transition into fourth. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct except for the condition of free will which is, of course, planned by the Logos as It, Itself, is a creature of free will. In this climate an infinity of events or conditions may occur. They cannot be said to be planned by the Logos but can be said to have been freely allowed.
[/font]

(11-01-2019, 06:09 AM)kristina Wrote:

(11-01-2019, 03:34 AM)RitaJC Wrote:

(10-31-2019, 01:52 PM)kristina Wrote: According to the man in the video there is no self.

That's not exactly what RS meant to convey.

Firstly, I want to express I am not triggered and I definitely am not feeling any way or the other way about the video as I appreciate this man's journey and respect his individuated concepts that he is learn/teaching. They may be too advanced in a manner of speaking. I just think if we are exploring The Law of Free Will we can't start with there is no other self.
See, while I understand his baseline concept and it is as far as I know, it to be absolutely correct, however, there is something between "where" some are and where "he is", this man and his concepts that he is trying to convey.
What I expressed in my response is exactly how some would assume this man is saying because, let's face it, that's exacly what he is saying. When you put it against something like the Law of One, the inner teachings of the Law of One, his concept suffers vitality and the inner teachings of how to get from here, the 3rd density world, to the world in which we are all one. I feel if we are to explore free will or the lack of free will it, would be beneficial to examine self and other self as a "possibility". Other self serves as the mirror but until we learn that, we don't really know it. The Law of One and it's understanding will vary slightly from one to another but I see a similarity with all that come to know it and that is they explore and examine the self ever so deeply and at some point, you will discover there is only The Creator but there is a lot that happens between the point of  the sound of the starting gun and that particular realization. Though deduction is a valuable concept no one can truly start there especially when we desire to explore something like free will in a 3rd density world and that is what we are exploring here. In that, I feel we could examine the concepts of Karma, spiritual biases, the Archetypes and the concept of reincarnation.
When we begin to explore some of these things it's a natural occurance to see that clearly they will include the understanding of self and other self especially when we are addressing the Law of Free Will.

(11-01-2019, 07:13 PM)Asolsutsesvyl Wrote: I'll add in something so far missing from this discussion - the Fourth Way perspective.

Free will becomes a more complex question in some ways when moving beyond a materialistic framework. In other ways, it becomes simpler, given a metaphysics in which free will is really free at some level.

A key question is, what really exists which is part of an individual person? Is it just the physical body, and its place within a social and cultural context? Is it also an astral body, subject to less restrictive laws of the cosmos, and simultaneously present in a world corresponding to its own nature? How about a mental body, another step up, corresponding to 4D? Then there's the level of the causal body, in which the structure of the cosmos is so simple that each such "being" is able to choose which chains of cause and effect to become involved in. Beyond that, there's no "bodies" as such - there's too much cosmic unity for that.

In terms of the physical body alone, what materialistic science has to say is basically correct as far as free will goes. Except that it exists in a world in which beings at all the other levels interact, and some of the chains of influence can reach, and sometimes strongly grip, people who only have a physical body.

When it comes to the astral body, it is the "soulful" part of 3D existence, and it is more free, willed, and influential than the physical body. To the extent that its connections with the physical body and brain of an incarnation are developed (this can improve with certain inner work), it comes to rule the subconscious mind, and in part other activity, of the physical person. Then it is no longer so useful to dismiss free will on the basis of materialistic research.

The mental body can wield a greater influence over its environment, exert greater control over the incarnation, consciously work multidimensionally in terms of navigating a person through time, and in principle, produce various extraordinary phenomena (though "mental bodies" are seldom interested in "showing off"). Brain scans of people with mental bodies may or may not perplex researchers - what is shown can be unusual.

The causal body is more mysterious. But then, it is more difficult to be clear about 5D matters in terms understandable in relation to everyday life. The point as far as free will is concerned is that free will is well and truly free at that level.

The vast majority of people have either only a physical body, or the combination of a physical body and an astral body. Most other cases can be understood in terms of wanderers. (For 6D wanderers, I think that a specially formed type of 5D "body" is created by the 6D mind to provide a structure for use as a conduit and stable presence, which then reaches down into lower-density realities to connect to incarnations.) The world and some people growing into 4D however means that the number of "mental bodies" in the world will increase over time.

(11-02-2019, 04:34 AM)RitaJC Wrote:

(11-01-2019, 07:13 PM)Asolsutsesvyl Wrote: I'll add in something so far missing from this discussion - the Fourth Way perspective. [...]

I can agree 100% except with this part: "The vast majority of people have either only a physical body, or the combination of a physical body and an astral body."

I have become to know that all expressions of the Creator are always having all of the mentioned bodies (as a reality with the potential of being experienced). A particular expression might juts not be aware of some of them and not able to have a conscious experience of them for some time.

(11-02-2019, 04:29 AM)RitaJC Wrote:

(11-01-2019, 06:09 AM)kristina Wrote:

(11-01-2019, 03:34 AM)RitaJC Wrote:

(10-31-2019, 01:52 PM)kristina Wrote: According to the man in the video there is no self.

That's not exactly what RS meant to convey.

Firstly, I want to express I am not triggered and I definitely am not feeling any way or the other way about the video as I appreciate this man's journey and respect his individuated concepts that he is learn/teaching. They may be too advanced in a manner of speaking. I just think if we are exploring The Law of Free Will we can't start with there is no other self.
See, while I understand his baseline concept and it is as far as I know, it to be absolutely correct, however, there is something between "where" some are and where "he is", this man and his concepts that he is trying to convey.
What I expressed in my response is exactly how some would assume this man is saying because, let's face it, that's exacly what he is saying. When you put it against something like the Law of One, the inner teachings of the Law of One, his concept suffers vitality and the inner teachings of how to get from here, the 3rd density world, to the world in which we are all one. I feel if we are to explore free will or the lack of free will it, would be beneficial to examine self and other self as a "possibility". Other self serves as the mirror but until we learn that, we don't really know it. The Law of One and it's understanding will vary slightly from one to another but I see a similarity with all that come to know it and that is they explore and examine the self ever so deeply and at some point, you will discover there is only The Creator but there is a lot that happens between the point of  the sound of the starting gun and that particular realization. Though deduction is a valuable concept no one can truly start there especially when we desire to explore something like free will in a 3rd density world and that is what we are exploring here. In that, I feel we could examine the concepts of Karma, spiritual biases, the Archetypes and the concept of reincarnation.
When we begin to explore some of these things it's a natural occurance to see that clearly they will include the understanding of self and other self especially when we are addressing the Law of Free Will.

I can agree 100% that this is not for beginner seekers

(11-03-2019, 09:31 AM)Nau7ik Wrote:

(11-02-2019, 04:29 AM)RitaJC Wrote:

(11-01-2019, 06:09 AM)kristina Wrote:

(11-01-2019, 03:34 AM)RitaJC Wrote:

(10-31-2019, 01:52 PM)kristina Wrote: According to the man in the video there is no self.

That's not exactly what RS meant to convey.

Firstly, I want to express I am not triggered and I definitely am not feeling any way or the other way about the video as I appreciate this man's journey and respect his individuated concepts that he is learn/teaching. They may be too advanced in a manner of speaking. I just think if we are exploring The Law of Free Will we can't start with there is no other self.
See, while I understand his baseline concept and it is as far as I know, it to be absolutely correct, however, there is something between "where" some are and where "he is", this man and his concepts that he is trying to convey.
What I expressed in my response is exactly how some would assume this man is saying because, let's face it, that's exacly what he is saying. When you put it against something like the Law of One, the inner teachings of the Law of One, his concept suffers vitality and the inner teachings of how to get from here, the 3rd density world, to the world in which we are all one. I feel if we are to explore free will or the lack of free will it, would be beneficial to examine self and other self as a "possibility". Other self serves as the mirror but until we learn that, we don't really know it. The Law of One and it's understanding will vary slightly from one to another but I see a similarity with all that come to know it and that is they explore and examine the self ever so deeply and at some point, you will discover there is only The Creator but there is a lot that happens between the point of  the sound of the starting gun and that particular realization. Though deduction is a valuable concept no one can truly start there especially when we desire to explore something like free will in a 3rd density world and that is what we are exploring here. In that, I feel we could examine the concepts of Karma, spiritual biases, the Archetypes and the concept of reincarnation.
When we begin to explore some of these things it's a natural occurance to see that clearly they will include the understanding of self and other self especially when we are addressing the Law of Free Will.

I can agree 100% that this is not for beginner seekers

Not for beginners but I see a lot of beginners who try and work with these ideas right away and end up becoming confused and distorted. Some spiritual revelations rely on previously had spiritual revelations for it to be understood properly.

Like yes this is an illusion we are, but it is a relatively real illusion. There’s a purpose for it. We are not done with it. So then to think that all is illusory and nothing is real, that “I am NOT” can get one thinking that life has no meaning. That they can do whatever they want because it doesn’t matter. In the Western Tradition people often take Crowley’s “Do as Thine Wilt” literally. I never understood it that way. Do as Thou Wilt means do what you were created to do; your True Will, your purpose for life. That’s quite a different meaning than do whatever you want whenever you want.

So I see what Kristina is saying that there is a lot that goes in between asking “Who Am I?” (Impetus for seeking) and “I am Not”. We are done working with the tools of the personality, the mind, body, and spirit. In fact we’ve barely just begun (being in 3D).

(10-30-2019, 01:14 PM)Glow Wrote: Everything we experience tips our brain to respond subconsciously making certain thought patterns more likely, and other thought patterns almost unreachable. Over time the experiences we have bias us toward certain behavior that again lead us to situations and perspectives that come about due to the entire history being placed as a lenses over each experience.

(12-01-2019, 02:16 AM)loostudent Wrote:

(10-30-2019, 01:14 PM)Glow Wrote: Everything we experience tips our brain to respond subconsciously making certain thought patterns more likely, and other thought patterns almost unreachable. Over time the experiences we have bias us toward certain behavior that again lead us to situations and perspectives that come about due to the entire history being placed as a lenses over each experience.

Are you saying that the veil is disabling free will? Interesting. Ra said right the opposite - it extends it... Free will is a faculty. As such it's subject to development and many factors like seniority, health, emotional state, familiarity of situation... And bias yes. I think bias helps us to preserve what's being learned. You don't have to consciously decide over and over what you learned/decided long ago. You only refine it. It's different when learning something new. Then bias is less used.

(12-01-2019, 12:08 PM)Glow Wrote: I actually realized as I drifted off to sleep last night that Ra and Q’uo infer this with every channeling.
In an attempt to not infringe of the free individuate will they are cautious about introducing  new information to the subconscious. They out right refuse often because they know planting certain ideas would definitely change the subconscious enough to redirect or refocus/infringe on our individual journey/will.

They consistently ask us to not weight their oppinion heavily if it does not resonate. Because if  it doesn’t resonate that means our current individual will is not aligned with the info they could potentially plant into the subconscious and thus change(infringe) on that individuation’s direction of exploration.

(11-05-2019, 07:08 AM)Asolsutsesvyl Wrote: There's several kinds of "simple". The teaching of the Ra contact has a simplicity at the core which "scales" well, and seems to be carefully constructed to avoid leading people to leave any major part of the big picture out.

What are the pitfalls of wisdom teachings? They go wrong when they magnify some areas of reality out of proportion while blinding people to other areas. Too many hard and fast guidelines, overgeneralizations, hyperbolic maxims, etc., and "wisdom" will lead to mixed-up mental and emotional patterns.

The Law of One books do not lead people particularly strongly in choosing how to approach reality. The teaching on the polarities goes the farthest in so doing, but is at the same time full of subtleties often missed or selectively ignored by readers. As part of a positive path, a balanced approach is, in general, recommended. (There seems to be major overlap with Jungian insights regarding that.)

(12-01-2019, 03:13 AM)Glow Wrote: IM saying our interpretation of the term free will is wrong.
Independent or individual will is accurate...

Quote:Order and chaos are the yang and yin of the famous Taoist symbol: two serpents, head to tail. Order is the white, masculine serpent; Chaos, its black, feminine counterpart. The black dot in the white—and the white in the black—indicate the possibility of transformation: just when things seem secure, the unknown can loom, unexpectedly and large. Conversely, just when everything seems lost, new order can emerge from catastrophe and chaos.

For the Taoists, meaning is to be found on the border between the ever-entwined pair. To walk that border is to stay on the path of life, the divine Way.