Did Entities Eat Meat Before The Veil ?

[Shemaya]

This is not about individual polarity at all, for me. It's about the global consciousness. Does anyone here think that slaughterhouses, factory farms, etc will still be around when we are well-swung into 4D? So if one wants to help usher in a new Earth, why participate in structures that are so very separatist and 3D? I mean, obviously that question is hypothetical - we are all here to participate in the separation of 3D, but as Wanderers we are also here to help make the transition to 4D+ smoother. I try to follow the 'be the change you wish to see' mantra as much as possible - I don't meditate for a better frame of mind, and go out into the world every day and smile at and be gracious with people, and give money to the homeless, and not eat animals because it polarizes me - I do this because I want to alleviate the overall suffering of the planet, and help expedite its transition into its new being. I understand that it's still possible to participate in consumption of animals and still help eliminate suffering, but to say one is removed from the responsibility of the tortured/murdered lifeforms because they merely purchase them at the grocery store is a huge disconnect.

  I don't think slaughterhouses or factory farms will be around when we are in 4 D.  But I also don't think that migrant farm workers will be exploited either in our future world, or that children will be harvesting our agricultural products.  We are responsible for all of this stuff, it is not just being vegan that will change all of it to 4D. But here are many many things that we can do to be the change and help alleviate suffering. Responsibility for the System , our culture and society, our institutions , our spiritual belief systems rests squarely on our shoulders and is based on our consciousness.  What we are creating now in society, participating in the System, is done because of our veiled condition, as the veil thins and lifts, humans will change and evolve. They can't help but do otherwise.

So obviously, I don't think that everyone who eats meat is service to self oriented by any means. In fact, I think it's a noble self-service if you truly honestly believe you need meat to be healthy and functional, and you consume it: you are doing what you truly think is best for your body. I think really what's going on is that most people are engaging in unconscious catalyst when they eat, as most people are doing with most things they do in a day. But, we truly can use any catalyst for any type of polarization/work, I do believe that. I just love our little cow and chicken buddies so much I can't help but feel like I should speak my mind on the topic when the path has been opened before me. And especially when people deny a cow's ability to read 3D awareness - when I see people make statements like that about animals (or about eating them because they are lower consciousness), I try to imagine a step up in densities, a 4th density looking at humans and thinking "Look at them, they are unable to reach 4D awareness with their simple little bodies and brains, their beingness is ours for the plunder! Oh wait - that one special one IS close to 4D - he's cool, let him be."

 
It's true that self-care is vital in order to be able to truly love others.  There are people who have been vegan who returned to meat products for health reasons just as the vice versa is true.

  An attitude of non- violence and non- cruelty is essential for 4D awareness.  I think that everyone on these boards would agree to that.  As I read these threads  on diet I have read repeatedly that so- called, self- professed "wanderers" , by eating meat, are advocating violence and cruelty.  not true, very far from the truth in fact and also a disrespectful thing to say.  ( not that you said such a thing, Jade!)

I was reading a bit about Native Americans who were not veiled as we are and many lived in societies that are not violent as our modern day Western societies are, and they most definitely did eat meat. They raised turkeys for feathers and meat, they hunted and fished. They were not vegan.  Eating meat has been part of the evolution of humans. do we honor that? do we judge it? do we accept it?

I believe things will change as we get on to 4-D,  but it will take time.  The chemical and energetic system of the human body requires a lot of energy cycling.  Thank God we have high powered blenders now, we can consolidate much of our nutritional needs and not have to eat all day to get proper nutrition without high density foods

[Diana]

If you think things are just going to magically and nicely evolve into Utopia, or that we will just meander in the right direction, I would rethink your beliefs.

And why are we waiting for the world to change?

I was reading a bit about Native Americans who were not veiled as we are and many lived in societies that are not violent as our modern day Western societies are, and they most definitely did eat meat. They raised turkeys for feathers and meat, they hunted and fished. They were not vegan.  Eating meat has been part of the evolution of humans. do we honor that? do we judge it? do we accept it?

Of course we accept it. I don't think anyone has ever thought otherwise.

Indigenous peoples have had to do what they had to do to survive. We do not have to continue to abuse animals. Think of Thanksgiving. Americans call it "turkey day." Kids make paper turkeys at school and it's all about "family"—human family that is. But the reality is a wholesale slaughter of millions of turkeys. WE DON"T NEED TO DO THIS. 

[Monica]

It's true that self-care is vital in order to be able to truly love others.  There are people who have been vegan who returned to meat products for health reasons just as the vice versa is true.

That was understandable. I did this myself at one time, but it was based on ignorance. The human body doesn't need meat, or even dairy. This is a biological fact. People think they do, but they don't. It's a matter of simple education. Those who reverted back to meat and/or dairy simply weren't educated about how to solve their nutritional issues in other ways. We now have much more information and support.

An attitude of non- violence and non- cruelty is essential for 4D awareness.

Exactly. It's impossible to eat meat without supporting cruelty and violence.

We aren't going to just go POOF! into 4D. We have to align ourselves with it.


  Peace.jpg (Size: 36.3 KB / Downloads: 9)

[Diana]

  An attitude of non- violence and non- cruelty is essential for 4D awareness.  I think that everyone on these boards would agree to that.  As I read these threads  on diet I have read repeatedly that so- called, self- professed "wanderers" , by eating meat, are advocating violence and cruelty.  not true, very far from the truth in fact and also a disrespectful thing to say.  ( not that you said such a thing, Jade!)

Buying meat in the grocery store is supporting the factory farms where millions of animals suffer. This either consciously or unconsciously contributes to the supply and demand. I'm afraid there is no getting out of that, and saying so disrespects no one. It is a fact.

And Jade said the following by the way, in case you are inclined to be judgmental toward only specific individuals:

I understand that it's still possible to participate in consumption of animals and still help eliminate suffering, but to say one is removed from the responsibility of the tortured/murdered lifeforms because they merely purchase them at the grocery store is a huge disconnect.

[Shemaya]

  An attitude of non- violence and non- cruelty is essential for 4D awareness.  I think that everyone on these boards would agree to that.  As I read these threads  on diet I have read repeatedly that so- called, self- professed "wanderers" , by eating meat, are advocating violence and cruelty.  not true, very far from the truth in fact and also a disrespectful thing to say.  ( not that you said such a thing, Jade!)

Buying meat in the grocery store is supporting the factory farms where millions of animals suffer. This either consciously or unconsciously contributes to the supply and demand. I'm afraid there is no getting out of that, and saying so disrespects no one. It is a fact.

And Jade said the following by the way, in case you are inclined to be judgmental toward only specific individuals:

I understand that it's still possible to participate in consumption of animals and still help eliminate suffering, but to say one is removed from the responsibility of the tortured/murdered lifeforms because they merely purchase them at the grocery store is a huge disconnect.

It is also a fact that buying many things at the grocery store like avocados, cashews, almonds, and quinoa for example, support systems of human exploitation, enslavement and environmental degradation in a capitalistic system of exploitive accumulation of profit and wealth.  Buying anything contributes to supply and demand.  Meat is not the only grocery store item that causes harm, or is produced/ harvested violently.  I think it is a huge disconnect to have the view that only meat or dairy consumption is responsible for suffering and enslavement, it just is not true.

It is true that it's a horrible system of exploitation, enslavement and environmental degradation across the board for our agriculture / food, and our global economy.  

It's not like just because someone is vegan they can wash their hands of this exploitative system.  You'd have to move to a place with a local economy, and local food production and grow your own food.  Doing that would make it hard for some climates to get all their nutritional needs met without dairy or fish or bivalves or something to supplement the harvest times.  

[Diana]

It's not like just because someone is vegan they can wash their hands of this exploitative system.   

If you will read what vegans and vegetarians have said in these threads without prejudice, you will know that no one has even implied that. 

Your concerns seem to center around humans only. I can understand that, as that mindset is how most people think. But my views include all life forms.

[Shemaya]

It's not like just because someone is vegan they can wash their hands of this exploitative system.   

If you will read what vegans and vegetarians have said in these threads without prejudice, you will know that no one has even implied that. 

Your concerns seem to center around humans only. I can understand that, as that mindset is how most people think. But my views include all life forms.

My views do too.  

[native]

It is true that it's a horrible system of exploitation, enslavement and environmental degradation across the board for our agriculture / food, and our global economy.

It's true, we unfortunately can't exist in modern society without being connected to all sorts of horrible things. We can make an attempt at living ethically as best as possible, but I think a central aspect that is missing in the general population as a whole is not what is ultimately right or wrong, but an attitude of sacredness and gratefulness.

So I'm not sure that consumption/materialism is the issue, but rather we consume things hollowly. I think the first step then is to start cultivating that awareness at meals or when things are purchased. Blessing food, meat or otherwise, and cherishing material goods should not only have a vibrational effect, but the awareness alone of things being sacred creates the condition where things are appreciated and less likely to be abused/consumed blindly.

I can see how basically the spirit of things has vanished creating a void because we don't feed it, and it has gone extremely hungry and is devouring everything around it. By feeding the spirit, things should begin to change.

[Diana]

It is also a fact that buying many things at the grocery store like avocados, cashews, almonds, and quinoa for example, support systems of human exploitation, enslavement and environmental degradation in a capitalistic system of exploitive accumulation of profit and wealth.  Buying anything contributes to supply and demand.  Meat is not the only grocery store item that causes harm, or is produced/ harvested violently.  I think it is a huge disconnect to have the view that only meat or dairy consumption is responsible for suffering and enslavement, it just is not true.

No one said that meat and dairy consumption are the only areas responsible for suffering and enslavement.

This thread is about eating meat. And it is undeniable that meat eating causes suffering and enslavement. I agree that there is a large overview to look at. And within the context of eating animals, for the good of the WORLD, it would be better to cease this unnecessary consumption. Growing food for humans and not the meat animals alone would ease much human as well as animal suffering.

What are big-profit corporations to do with the supply and demand for meat? Does anyone think they will let go of that bone (no pun intended)? Poor countries invaded by big corporations to cut down rain forest to graze cattle or to commercially farm quinoa because it is now popular in America are at the disadvantage because they are poor. I seriously doubt positive change will come from corporations becoming 4D. Less suffering is sure to happen when we stop demanding cheap plastic toys from China, meat from factory-farmed animals, and grains/bananas/etc. from 3rd-world countries where these corporations exploit the poor.

If anyone is waiting around for the transnational corporations raking in the profits to lead the way into a loving future, good luck. I think it must begin with personal change. Stop supporting cruelty in the ways that you can. One EASY way is to stop eating grocery store meat from factory farms. I say EASY because it is doable, barring addictions, taste, habits, comfort, unconsciousness, etc. So perhaps it's not easy for the individual in some cases, but what is the alternative?

[AnthroHeart]

Are all gummies and gummy vitamins made from animal products?

[Jade]

If they are made with gelatin (animal bones), also some artificial and natural flavors can be animal derived.

[Shemaya]

It is true that it's a horrible system of exploitation, enslavement and environmental degradation across the board for our agriculture / food, and our global economy.

It's true, we unfortunately can't exist in modern society without being connected to all sorts of horrible things. We can make an attempt at living ethically as best as possible, but I think a central aspect that is missing in the general population as a whole is not what is ultimately right or wrong, but an attitude of sacredness and gratefulness.

Yes, that is what the pre-veil humans had in spades, a strong connection to God/ OIC/ Spirit and they were very conscious of the sacredness of life. They were aware of the cycles, the circle of life that is designed into this planet. They didn't fear death as many do in veiled conditions. They understood the body, whether human animal or turkey animal, is a vessel for the creator and true identity is not our form, but our Soul.

So I'm not sure that consumption/materialism is the issue, but rather we consume things hollowly. I think the first step then is to start cultivating that awareness at meals or when things are purchased. Blessing food, meat or otherwise, and cherishing material goods should not only have a vibrational effect, but the awareness alone of things being sacred creates the condition where things are appreciated and less likely to be abused/consumed blindly.

That is just what Aion has been saying. He described his process earlier in this thread and other threads of blessing and transmuting the lower vibratory energies that are encountered when we consume. So not only to bless appreciate animal products that nourish our bodies, but all that we consume that nourishes us. It is nearly impossible in our modern Western society to only consume what is free from energies of exploitation or enslavement...those are energies that formed the basis of our current civilization. Exploitation, enslavement, stealing the life force of others, human and animal. It is a naive and unsophisticated argument to place the blame of participating and supporting those lower energies on only "meat-eaters" or omnivores.

This is likely one reason why there is so much backlash in threads like this. When looking at the whole picture with an understanding that consciousness and energy are fundamental and the foundation of our existence, we can see that the STS System that we live in is fundamentally exploiting all Life.

We have the power to free our consciousness from that however by understanding that we are all things. By shifting our perception of identity. Therefore, I am male, I am female, I am white, I am black, I am vegan, I am pescetarian, I am omnivore. I am all of these and none of these.  If I identify with Light and Love, rather than my form, it is less distorted to make choices in alignment with that identity. Identifying with love and light places one in alignment with the energy of appreciating the sacredness of all Life.

So I'm not sure that consumption/materialism is the issue, but rather we consume things hollowly. I think the first step then is to start cultivating that awareness at meals or when things are purchased. Blessing food, meat or otherwise, and cherishing material goods should not only have a vibrational effect, but the awareness alone of things being sacred creates the condition where things are appreciated and less likely to be abused/consumed blindly.

I can see how basically the spirit of things has vanished creating a void because we don't feed it, and it has gone extremely hungry and is devouring everything around it. By feeding the spirit, things should begin to change.

Again, the awareness of the sacredness of all life is what the pre-veil humans knew with much less distortion than us.  It makes total sense, as we nourish our Spirit with love and light , the natural flow will be one of freedom, symbiosis, cooperation, community.

[Shemaya]

It is also a fact that buying many things at the grocery store like avocados, cashews, almonds, and quinoa for example, support systems of human exploitation, enslavement and environmental degradation in a capitalistic system of exploitive accumulation of profit and wealth.  Buying anything contributes to supply and demand.  Meat is not the only grocery store item that causes harm, or is produced/ harvested violently.  I think it is a huge disconnect to have the view that only meat or dairy consumption is responsible for suffering and enslavement, it just is not true.

No one said that meat and dairy consumption are the only areas responsible for suffering and enslavement.

This thread is about eating meat. And it is undeniable that meat eating causes suffering and enslavement. I agree that there is a large overview to look at. And within the context of eating animals, for the good of the WORLD, it would be better to cease this unnecessary consumption. Growing food for humans and not the meat animals alone would ease much human as well as animal suffering.

I am not sure if you are saying my individual choice of whether or not to eat meat or the world as a whole.  Coming from a perspective of the WORLD, the design has been one of a circle of life, and that involved nourishment derived from consuming other living things.  When speaking of the pre-veil humans, they had a less distorted connection to the cycles and all Life, as well as Spirit, I believe. And they ate meat.  I don't think there has been even  one vegan ancestral human society.

Even now, humans that live in local economies, generally not here in America, grow their own food and very often raise domestic animals to supplement their diets.  I saw this in Africa where the people grew much of their food, their diet was mostly plant-based, but they would have meat on special occasions.  The goat was ritually sacrificed in my experience, not bought in a grocery store. 

I think if we are expecting a global shift in consciousness, having some understanding of other conditions and other people is helpful to broaden the scope of our perspective.  If we understand true history, sociology, psychology, science, medicine etc. (which are all just aspects of an expanding global consciousness), then the omnivore vs. vegan debate starts to looks a little silly to me, and not coming from a expanded  and evolved level of consciousness.

If anyone is waiting around for the transnational corporations raking in the profits to lead the way into a loving future, good luck. I think it must begin with personal change. Stop supporting cruelty in the ways that you can. One EASY way is to stop eating grocery store meat from factory farms. I say EASY because it is doable, barring addictions, taste, habits, comfort, unconsciousness, etc. So perhaps it's not easy for the individual in some cases, but what is the alternative?

I am not sure who is waiting for that.  I agree with you, changing our diet and choosing a plant based diet is one way to withdraw support from an oppressive system. 

[Diana]

 It is a naive and unsophisticated argument to place the blame of participating and supporting those lower energies on only "meat-eaters" or omnivores. 

...

This is likely one reason why there is so much backlash in threads like this. When looking at the whole picture with an understanding that consciousness and energy are fundamental and the foundation of our existence, we can see that the STS System that we live in is fundamentally exploiting all Life.

We have the power to free our consciousness from that however by understanding that we are all things. By shifting our perception of identity. Therefore, I am male, I am female, I am white, I am black, I am vegan, I am pescetarian, I am omnivore. I am all of these and none of these.  If I identify with Light and Love, rather than my form, it is less distorted to make choices in alignment with that identity. Identifying with love and light places one in alignment with the energy of appreciating the sacredness of all Life.

...

Again, the awareness of the sacredness of all life is what the pre-veil humans knew with much less distortion than us.  It makes total sense, as we nourish our Spirit with love and light , the natural flow will be one of freedom, symbiosis, cooperation, community.

Please stop suggesting that those in favor of a plant-based diet are so stupid (or zealots, or extremists, etc.). My arguments (meant on the vein of discussion) are not naive or unsophisticated. 

As to labeling: this is way off base. This is not about us vs. them. This is about having compassion for animal life. It is a simple decision to stop eating factory-farmed meat. It is not as simple of a decision to stop buying products made in sweat shops (because it is more difficult to find out if the products even come from sweat shops or if the villagers working there want or don't want the jobs. That is not to say sweat shops are compassionate. Just that it's more complex.). Who is doing the labeling in your statements?

Of course all life is sacred! That's precisely why it is so reprehensible that humans use animals (and all life including the planet and other humans) in the way we do. An attitude of gratefulness and respect is so very fundamental. But that attitude falls short if one is knowingly indulging in something unnecessary, that causes suffering, then spreading affirmations over the top of this toxicity thinking it makes everything okay.

Indigenous peoples, who did (and do) honor the life they took for nourishment, were doing that to survive. We don't have to do that now. And let's not forget what a horrible system we have turned obtaining meat into; indigenous people who had a reverence for life did not make animals suffer in the way we do now. Sending love and gratitude to the life you take for nourishment is one thing, but to think that evens the scales of suffering for factory-farmed meat animals is what is naive and unsophisticated.

Look, I don't want to argue with you, Shemaya. But I honestly find your sideways, sugar-coated digs offensive. I'm sure someone here will talk about mirroring, or triggers. And if anyone would like to blame me for the attacks others make have at it. I will take full responsibility for anything hurtful, inconsiderate, or otherwise out-of-line things I say here.

[Shemaya]

What exactly do you think was a sugar coated dig??

My opinion that these arguments are silly and unsophisticated sometimes? Well, I think that is true, and it is not a dig. It is my perception, it is what I have observed.

I wasn't talking about you personally Diana, and I would say it is a little out of line to make an assumption that I was. It makes the discussion silly

And the thread is about whether pre-veil humans ate meat, which is what I was talking about.

[native]

Yes, that is what the pre-veil humans had in spades, a strong connection to God/ OIC/ Spirit and they were very conscious of the sacredness of life. They were aware of the cycles, the circle of life that is designed into this planet. They didn't fear death as many do in veiled conditions. They understood the body, whether human animal or turkey animal, is a vessel for the creator and true identity is not our form, but our Soul.

Sure, I wouldn't limit it to pre-veil though, all tribal/indigenous cultures do this. I think it's a good thing to cultivate.

".. and if possible, moving through this gateway, the penetration of violet-ray intelligent infinity. This may be seen to be manifested by a sense of the consecrate or hallowed nature of everyday creations and activities."

[Diana]

What exactly do you think was a sugar coated dig??

My opinion that these arguments are silly and unsophisticated sometimes?  Well, I think that is true, and it is not a dig. It is my perception, it is what I have observed.  

I wasn't talking about you personally Diana, and I would say it is a little out of line to make an assumption that I was.   It makes the discussion silly

And the thread is about whether pre-veil humans ate meat, which is what I was talking about.

Okay. But I will remind you that now you are accusing me of being silly (indirectly).

I am going to apologize for any misunderstandings now, and for whatever I said that did not align with your meanings.

Peace.

[Shemaya]

Yes, that is what the pre-veil humans had in spades, a strong connection to God/ OIC/ Spirit and they were very conscious of the sacredness of life. They were aware of the cycles, the circle of life that is designed into this planet. They didn't fear death as many do in veiled conditions. They understood the body, whether human animal or turkey animal, is a vessel for the creator and true identity is not our form, but our Soul.

Sure, I wouldn't limit it to pre-veil though, all tribal/indigenous cultures do this. I think it's a good thing to cultivate.

".. and if possible, moving through this gateway, the penetration of violet-ray intelligent infinity. This may be seen to be manifested by a sense of the consecrate or hallowed nature of everyday creations and activities."

Indigenous cultures do until they are invaded, colonized and oppressed.  But now sadly, many of their communities have disintegrated into heavily veiled places, having been heavily infringed upon by the invaders/enslavers who were not connected to intelligent infinity as they were.

My intuition is that these cultures are the remnants of the pre-veil people. I have read that they are the descendants of Lemuria, which in my estimation was a pre-veil civilization.

Oh and here is what Ra said about Lemuria:

10.15 Questioner: [I] was wondering about the advent of the civilization called Atlantis and Lemuria, the way these civilizations occurred, and where did they come from [inaudible] civilizations?

Ra: I am Ra. This is the last question of this work. The civilizations of Atlantis and Lemuria were not one but two. Let us look first at the Mu entities.

They were beings of a somewhat primitive nature, but those who had very advanced spiritual distortions. The civilization was part of this cycle, experienced early within the cycle at a time of approximately five three oh oh oh, fifty-three thousand [53,000] of your years ago. It was an helpful and harmless place which was washed beneath the ocean during a readjustment of your sphere’s tectonic plates through no action of their own. They set out those who survived and reached many places in what you call Russia, North America, and South America. The Indians of whom you have come to feel some sympathy in your social complex distortions are the descendants of these entities. Like the other incarnates of this cycle, they came from elsewhere. However, these particular entities were largely drawn from a second-density planet which had some difficulty, due to the age of its sun, in achieving third-density life conditions. This planet was from the galaxy Deneb.

 

[Monica]

Speaking of silly, all This talk about indigenous peoples eating meat reminds me of that silly argument "What if you were stranded on a desert island with a pig. Would you eat the pig?"

It's silly because 99.99999% of us will never be in that situation! (And anyway, if we are, just see what the pig eats and eat that, duh.)

I find the topic of this thread interesting in a philosophical way; ie., to better understand the veiling process and exactly what that means, in regards to how this planet got so bellicose in the first place.

But in regards to using the fact that indigenous peoples had to hunt to survive, as an attempted justification for eating meat now, falls flat. Totally.

Why? For the simple reason that they had No choice. They had to hunt in order to survive.

We don't.

That is the difference, quite simply.

Furthermore, aren't we supposed to be...ahem...evolving? Aligning with 4D? We're all in agreement that animals don't get slaughtered for meat in 4D, right? We just disagree about how to get from Point A to Point B.

Actually, let me modify that: Point B to Point C.

Let's say our current 3D reality is Point B, and 4D reality is Point C. Early 3D, around the time of the caveman, is Point A.

So, we're well past Point A, and are now at Point B. Our goal is Point C.

To attempt to justify caveman-like behavior, just because early humans did it, isn't going in the right direction. It isn't helping us jump to Point C. In fact, it isn't even keeping us at Point B! It's actually DEvolving, backwards, to Point A!

I'd say that buying meat wrapped in plastic at the grocery store is a step backwards, compared to the way indigenous peoples got their meat. They at least took responsibility for the death of that animal, they killed the animal themselves, they probably gave thanks to the Great Spirit (or whatever they called the Creator) for finding food, and they used all of the animal's body to make clothing and shelter. They didn't waste anything and they certainly didn't torture the animal first. But most importantly, they had NO choice. They did it only for survival.

Now let's compare that to the average person today, including most people here on this forum, apparently. They don't hunt and kill the animal themselves (well maybe a few do, but most probably don't). They pay someone else to do the dirty work for them, and that someone is, most likely, raping and torturing the animal for his/her entire life before getting slaughtered. They might claim to buy only 'humane' meat (which is an oxymoron anyway) but if they ever eat at a restaurant or buy from a mainstream grocery store, they are most assuredly getting the worst of the worst: Meat from animals who were tortured. Literally. And, most importantly, in this information age, they now know that they don't even need it at all. They aren't doing it for survival like our ancestors did; they're doing it because they like the taste of bacon.

Then they say "Oh but it's ok to eat meat because our ancestors did" totally missing the fact that the way they're getting their meat is nothing like the way their ancestors did, and totally Not for the same reasons at all.

I'd say that killing animals for survival only is a much more evolved way of eating meat than buying it at the grocery store for taste only! (or just because it's tradition and nothing more)

We're supposedly evolving to 4D - Point C - but it appears that humans are, for the most part, actually DEvolving in regards to meat. They're knowingly supporting a barbaric, horrific practice for No good reason, but for taste and tradition only. At least our ancestors only did it for survival.

Not only that, but we can't expect to go Poof! into 4D, while still practicing barbaric behavior, that is in some ways lower than that of the caveman.  :idea:  How's that for a novel idea? Eating meat in 3D is actually less evolved than indigenous peoples eating meat, because it's for selfish reasons, rather than survival. Plus, it's with full awareness about the horrors of the meat industry, and full awareness that the human body doesn't even need it at all, and full awareness of alternatives. (I'm speaking about the average person living in the age of internet, Not primitive people on a secluded island or the Inuit, ok? You know what I mean here.) Full awareness, yet choosing to do it anyway...I'd say that isn't evolving...that's DEVO!

The caveman didn't know any better and the caveman had No choice.

We do know better, and we do have the choice.

...

[AnthroHeart]

A pig will eat anything. Even a dead rat.

[Monica]

A pig will eat anything. Even a dead rat.

OK, but their main diet is plants, so you get the point. They might eat the occasional rodent, but they aren't carnivores like lions. If there are pigs on that island, you can be sure that there are roots, leaves, and other edible plants. Anyway, how is a dead rat any different from a dead pig?

...

[Shemaya]

A pig will eat anything. Even a dead rat.

Geez, if he does that, how will he make it to 3D?

[AnthroHeart]

Is it called fodder which they feed the pig?

[Monica]

Geez, if he does that, how will he make it to 3D?

3D has different criteria.

...

[AnthroHeart]

I think the Veil's been in place for a billion or so years. Ra was under the veil when they were in 3D I believe.

[native]

Speaking of silly, all This talk about indigenous peoples eating meat reminds me of that silly argument

Speaking for myself, I didn't bring up the idea of indigenous people eating meat as an argument specifically (though it may have seemed that way), but rather that everything is done with reverence. I'm making the argument that once any sort of reverence or respect is gone, it makes way for what we have now. It makes sense then that restoring the sanctity of life into the collective consciousness is a step in the right direction.

[Monica]

Speaking for myself, I didn't bring up the idea of indigenous people eating meat as an argument specifically (though it may have seemed that way), but rather that everything is done with reverence. I'm making the argument that once any sort of reverence or respect is gone, it makes way for what we have now. It makes sense then that restoring the sanctity of life into the collective consciousness is a step in the right direction.

OK. It's a common argument that whatever the caveman did is what we should all emulate, as though the caveman is somehow our role model.

But about that reverence, the indigenous hunter stalking the weakest deer all day, and giving thanks to her as her lifeforce drains, and gratefully using all of her body for his own survival, with No other choice, is a far cry from the modern human buying meat wrapped in plastic, from an animal who was tortured, all because s/he likes the taste, without any other good reason.

As I said in my earlier post, I think it's going backwards. We can never go back to the caveman days anyway. The world isn't the same. The planet cannot sustain it. Plus, our eyes have been opened. We simply don't need to kill animals to survive anymore.

...

[AnthroHeart]

I think they ate meat before the veil, but they had awesome magical power which was maximum. They could kill with minimal pain. They could probably go for the sick or old. They could certainly read the fields of the animal.

[Aion]

Yeah, it's possible they could ask the higher self/intelligent energy and the entity could choose to willingly end its incarnation to offer its body. This, I imagine, would be like the animal having a sudden heart attack or stroke. That is similar to the indigenous approach where the spirit of the animal is asked before the hunt for forgiveness, thanks and permission.

I guess the question is whether or not it is likely for entities to be willing to do such a thing. If there indeed was already an innate bias towards services to others, then it doesn't seem that unlikely that this exchange could take place.

So far this seems to revolve around 3D entities eating 2D entities, but I wonder what goes on when a 2D entity eats a 3D entity?

[Bosphorus1982]

I guess eating meat is a characteristic of contemporary humans. Since orion 4d sts has altered our genes, it's only for modern humans