Love v. Wisdom in 3rd Density

[Barry]

We’re instructed that the purpose of this 3rd density is to learn love, and perhaps more succinctly unconditional love, that the purpose of 5th density is to learn wisdom, and that of the 6th density is to learn to blend the two. We’re also told that there are many 6th density wanderers here in 3rd density, working on the blending aspects of 6th density.

I’m struck by my feeling that unconditional love is difficult for me to practice, and that it must be tempered with wisdom. It’s all well and good to presume that one is therefore a 6th density wanderer, seeking to combine the two, but what if one is not? If not, does that mean that one is failing the lessons of 3rd density, unconditional love? I feel an uneasiness about these matters - has anyone considered this question?

[βαθμιαίος]

"Your question is certainly interesting and your confusion hopefully productive."

I think if one is honestly trying to balance love and wisdom then one is making the best effort possible. If that means that we're failing, well, third density's not so terrible after all.

[native]

Since indigo is acceptance of self, it involves attempting to balance what service is possible against what service is appropriate, while weighing your own limitations. Overly active green ray will do whatever is possible, but that isn't necessarily wise. Too much wisdom and you'll find yourself attempting to guide someone too much when they simply need a helping hand. Then there are aspects where you may be denying too much of yourself or your limitations in an attempt to serve another. This seems to be related to relationships also.

"Fourth-density Wanderers, of which there are not many, will tend to choose those entities which seem to be full of love or in need of love. There is the great possibility/probability of entities making errors in judgment due to the compassion with which other-selves are viewed."

I've found that unconditional love can be worked upon the most with personal catalyst. People will seemingly hurt you or piss you off, but that's only telling you that there is love to be found. You've encountered a mirror that represents a lack of love, meaning neither is "right" or "wrong". That doesn't mean what you need or require is necessarily wrong, but the idea is to not be blinded by feelings of separation as Ra says. Maybe one needs to give more or not, it's a balance to be found.

[Adonai One]

Unconditional love is of 4th density not 3rd.

3rd is just about choice, choosing to service others and/or serve the self. Yes, this is indeed about love but so is everything else in the end.

You may be here to begin learning to love the other and/or the self. True compassion does not come until later. So, if you find yourself disgusted by certain things and people, that's perfectly natural for 3rd density. Begin accepting your nature unconditionally. You can't begin to fail third-density nor fail it entirely. It's harsh and you can retry as many times as you like and every life will be just as valuable for the creator. There is no rush or set goal. You progress as your nature entails it.

How Earth serves as a lesson for Wanderers is that service is difficult to do here thus it builds wisdom and/or love in many ways thus bringing balance.

[anagogy]

We’re instructed that the purpose of this 3rd density is to learn love, and perhaps more succinctly unconditional love, that the purpose of 5th density is to learn wisdom, and that of the 6th density is to learn to blend the two. We’re also told that there are many 6th density wanderers here in 3rd density, working on the blending aspects of 6th density.

I’m struck by my feeling that unconditional love is difficult for me to practice, and that it must be tempered with wisdom. It’s all well and good to presume that one is therefore a 6th density wanderer, seeking to combine the two, but what if one is not? If not, does that mean that one is failing the lessons of 3rd density, unconditional love? I feel an uneasiness about these matters - has anyone considered this question?

In my opinion it doesn't matter one bit if you are a sixth density wanderer, or if you are a native 3rd density incarnate. And there is no failing. There is only learning. The lesson is reviewed until it is learned. That is all. The only thing of any importance whatsoever is opening yourself to whatever degree of the creator's light that you are capable of withstanding in this present moment. Struggling is okay. We have all eternity to work this stuff out. Seek the heart of self, and the blocks to unimpeded awareness of intelligent infinity will begin to unravel and dissolve.

Whatever catalyst/contrast you are experiencing right now is appropriate for your spiritual needs right at this moment. Understanding will come in time. It doesn't matter what density level you hail from, love is the lesson of every density in one form or another. Oneness is the framework for all love. Entities are to seek and become one. As Ra says, if they can do this in a moment, they may go forward in a moment. Just living produces an inevitable vector upwards towards the higher densities. It can be alternating slow and fast at times, but progression is always occuring.

[AnthroHeart]

Anagony, I like what you said about just living producing an upward vector towards higher densities. So we can satisfy our eventual goal of reaching 4D by just being alive and not trying too hard. I used to have fear of repeating 3D for another 75,000 years, but each life being short as it is, we'd only really know 100 years or so. Plus in time/space whose to say how long you stay there. I've read that on average it's about 20 years in time/space before reincarnating. But time there is simultaneous, so there probably is no equivalency. All I can say is I'm glad to be alive now, on this side of the veil. I'm learning a lot. Even though I have my share of frustrations, it seems my end goal of reaching higher densities will make this journey worth it.

[anagogy]

Plus in time/space whose to say how long you stay there. I've read that on average it's about 20 years in time/space before reincarnating. But time there is simultaneous, so there probably is no equivalency.

There actually is a sort of eqivalency -- there is just no good way to measure it is all. You can reincarnate into any time period that satisfies your necessities for learning the appropriate vibrations for elevating your personal spiritual vibrations. My understanding is that the amount of "subjective time" you spend in time/space after death is roughly equivalent to the amount of time you spent physically incarnate. In fact, this is one motivation for souls to live "parallel lives" (being incarnate in more than one body at a time). It takes longer to reflect on two lives, than it does one, so they get to spend more time in the spirit world (which they feel to be their true home).

[AnthroHeart]

But then is there the choice to stay in time/space for an extended period of time? What makes one have to incarnate at a certain time? Is it so we don't miss the party so to speak that our otherselves are participating in?

[anagogy]

But then is there the choice to stay in time/space for an extended period of time? What makes one have to incarnate at a certain time? Is it so we don't miss the party so to speak that our other selves are participating in?

My understanding is that it is something akin to karma (though a little different) where the ethereal cycle and physical cycle need to be balanced to some extent. One feels a building urge or need to be physical again. You could refuse to incarnate. I'm just saying this need for balance makes it so you want to incarnate. Stagnation is no fun. The desire for growth eventually wins out.

But also, yes, you're correct, there are the opportunities to interact with specific other selves (our soul clusters/families) while in the incarnate state. Those opportunities/catalyst are extremely valuable and missing them would be an unfortunate waste of potential catalytic action for growth.

[AnthroHeart]

I'm so glad we've reached harvest time. I think it will be more fun to incarnate into higher densities. But possibly more work and responsibility. I've felt Creator's love at one point in my life, and I can't wait for a density where you feel that all the time. I've done a few bad things in this life, but I don't think they've made me unharvestable. But I don't know.

[JustLikeYou]

The compassionate seek to offer assistance in any way possible. The wise know that most actions are not helpful in the long run. The balance between the two involves an appreciation of "the necessity and the near-hopelessness of attempting to teach."

[Barry]

Thanks for the helpful replies - they and a deeper consideration of just what constitues "unconditional love" have readjusted my thinking.
It seems that there's a nice dollop of Buddhism in these replies: the concept of the Middle Path being the correct one, and the Budddha's last words - "All success is transitory - strive relentlessly."

[Ashim]

I find that during the course of LOO study my bias has changed. In the past I had difficulty extending unconditional love (imagining it) towards those who I perceived had 'hurt me', or us as a collective.
This situation changed to the point where I encountered similar resistance when trying to love those not willing to make the effort of striving for spiritual 'enlightenment'. Those in the 'sinkhole of indifference'.
To paraphrase a poster on another site,
"Useless eaters lying in a puddle of sweat on their sofas with the tv on, munching on their potato chips and drinking their pepsi".
The incredible range of different 'actors' on this stage is really remarkable.
Now I embrace them all, but do have a much reformed view of the STS individuals due to their determination to seek the Creator.
Interesting how knowledge changes ones perspective.
Must get back to chewing out some lazy sheeple.....

[reeay]

I think zenmaster said unconditional love in 3D does not exist (post #8) and I can see his point. http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...dissonance

And also - between green and indigo ray there is blue ray.... Honesty is important - to be able to challenge self, to examine self, to understand why we do what we do & what effect it has on others. Without it, there's no opportunity to examine what we think is compassion/love and risk becoming defensive and staunch in our positions about what we think we are and the effects of what we do to serve others.

[AnthroHeart]

I thought Jesus had unconditional love, as well as the Buddha, and Buddha opened intelligent infinity through it.

[reeay]

How could we understand if someone had something?

[Monica]

I think zenmaster said unconditional love in 3D does not exist (post #8)

I've witnessed unconditional love here in 3D and I'm sure lots of others have too. I don't think any of us is perfect in our unconditional love at all times, but we've surely demonstrated and/or received unconditional love at various times in our lives.

[Barry]

I find that during the course of LOO study my bias has changed. In the past I had difficulty extending unconditional love (imagining it) towards those who I perceived had 'hurt me', or us as a collective.
This situation changed to the point where I encountered similar resistance when trying to love those not willing to make the effort of striving for spiritual 'enlightenment'. Those in the 'sinkhole of indifference'.
To paraphrase a poster on another site,
"Useless eaters lying in a puddle of sweat on their sofas with the tv on, munching on their potato chips and drinking their pepsi".
The incredible range of different 'actors' on this stage is really remarkable.
Now I embrace them all, but do have a much reformed view of the STS individuals due to their determination to seek the Creator.
Interesting how knowledge changes ones perspective.
Must get back to chewing out some lazy sheeple.....

Ha! You're ahead of me as to STS individuals, Ashim. I find myself with a tendency to be critical, and slightly...intolerantly judging perhaps, until I recognize that's their path and it's an acceptable one. It does seem that an STS path is or can be quite intrusive towards others, however.

[reeay]

I've witnessed unconditional love here in 3D and I'm sure lots of others have too. I don't think any of us is perfect in our unconditional love at all times, but we've surely demonstrated and/or received unconditional love at various times in our lives.

Of course -we've experienced various expressions of love (attachment/bonding, love of people, universal love) and felt understood/accepted, joy, felt completely understood, comfortable etc. etc.,. Is that unconditional love?

[Ashim]

I find that during the course of LOO study my bias has changed. In the past I had difficulty extending unconditional love (imagining it) towards those who I perceived had 'hurt me', or us as a collective.
This situation changed to the point where I encountered similar resistance when trying to love those not willing to make the effort of striving for spiritual 'enlightenment'. Those in the 'sinkhole of indifference'.
To paraphrase a poster on another site,
"Useless eaters lying in a puddle of sweat on their sofas with the tv on, munching on their potato chips and drinking their pepsi".
The incredible range of different 'actors' on this stage is really remarkable.
Now I embrace them all, but do have a much reformed view of the STS individuals due to their determination to seek the Creator.
Interesting how knowledge changes ones perspective.
Must get back to chewing out some lazy sheeple.....

Ha! You're ahead of me as to STS individuals, Ashim. I find myself with a tendency to be critical, and slightly...intolerantly judging perhaps, until I recognize that's their path and it's an acceptable one. It does seem that an STS path is or can be quite intrusive towards others, however.

Let's just say that if you had been tortured and tormented from birth onwards (actually even in the womb), had your personality forcefully split into up to 169 fragments, had to witness acts that 99% of peoples minds would reject due to their sheer horror etc, then you may start to understand the energies involved. I believe the LSD programming in isolation tanks is particularly 'hellish'. These souls argreed to this pre-incarnation in order to serve along their chosen path.
I know, everbody hurts but these individuals chose a VERY difficult path that is hardly recognised by the 'fluffy bunny' community.
I can understand how STO individuals make them 'sick'.
Generating sufficient hate in order to polarize along the STS path involves a torture of the individual that most folks would not believe, never mind be prepared to go through themselves.
I could go on but it may be better to leave the content of your stomach in tact.

Edit: I before e except after c

[JustLikeYou]

Unconditional love is really not so difficult. It requires no outward action or expression. It is a simple matter of my attitude toward others. The vibration is always at my fingertips, awaiting my participation. This becomes ever more challenging as the circumstances surrounding the subject of my unconditional love become more and more difficult for me to appreciate. If I were to watch extremely violent candid footage, for example, it would take some emotional processing before I could push through into unconditional love, but the vibration is still right there at my fingertips. Eventually, I will remember that there is nothing you can say or do that will make me stop loving you.

Too often, we assume that loving must require an action above and beyond the love itself.

[turtledude23]

I thought Jesus had unconditional love, as well as the Buddha, and Buddha opened intelligent infinity through it.

Good point.

I've witnessed unconditional love here in 3D and I'm sure lots of others have too. I don't think any of us is perfect in our unconditional love at all times, but we've surely demonstrated and/or received unconditional love at various times in our lives.

Another good point.

I find that during the course of LOO study my bias has changed. In the past I had difficulty extending unconditional love (imagining it) towards those who I perceived had 'hurt me', or us as a collective.
This situation changed to the point where I encountered similar resistance when trying to love those not willing to make the effort of striving for spiritual 'enlightenment'. Those in the 'sinkhole of indifference'.
To paraphrase a poster on another site,
"Useless eaters lying in a puddle of sweat on their sofas with the tv on, munching on their potato chips and drinking their pepsi".
The incredible range of different 'actors' on this stage is really remarkable.
Now I embrace them all, but do have a much reformed view of the STS individuals due to their determination to seek the Creator.
Interesting how knowledge changes ones perspective.
Must get back to chewing out some lazy sheeple.....

Ha! You're ahead of me as to STS individuals, Ashim. I find myself with a tendency to be critical, and slightly...intolerantly judging perhaps, until I recognize that's their path and it's an acceptable one. It does seem that an STS path is or can be quite intrusive towards others, however.

Let's just say that if you had been tortured and tormented from birth onwards (actually even in the womb), had your personality forcefully split into up to 169 fragments, had to witness acts that 99% of peoples minds would reject due to their sheer horror etc, then you may start to understand the energies involved. I believe the LSD programming in isolation tanks is particularly 'hellish'. These souls argreed to this pre-incarnation in order to serve along their chosen path.
I know, everbody hurts but these individuals chose a VERY difficult path that is hardly recognised by the 'fluffy bunny' community.
I can understand how STO individuals make them 'sick'.
Generating sufficient hate in order to polarize along the STS path involves a torture of the individual that most folks would not believe, never mind be prepared to go through themselves.
I could go on but it may be better to leave the content of your stomach in tact.

Edit: I before e except after c

I find your post interesting, do you have personal experience with that? Or did you read about it somewhere like Vigilant Citizen?

[Ashim]

I thought Jesus had unconditional love, as well as the Buddha, and Buddha opened intelligent infinity through it.

Good point.

I've witnessed unconditional love here in 3D and I'm sure lots of others have too. I don't think any of us is perfect in our unconditional love at all times, but we've surely demonstrated and/or received unconditional love at various times in our lives.

Another good point.

I find that during the course of LOO study my bias has changed. In the past I had difficulty extending unconditional love (imagining it) towards those who I perceived had 'hurt me', or us as a collective.
This situation changed to the point where I encountered similar resistance when trying to love those not willing to make the effort of striving for spiritual 'enlightenment'. Those in the 'sinkhole of indifference'.
To paraphrase a poster on another site,
"Useless eaters lying in a puddle of sweat on their sofas with the tv on, munching on their potato chips and drinking their pepsi".
The incredible range of different 'actors' on this stage is really remarkable.
Now I embrace them all, but do have a much reformed view of the STS individuals due to their determination to seek the Creator.
Interesting how knowledge changes ones perspective.
Must get back to chewing out some lazy sheeple.....

Ha! You're ahead of me as to STS individuals, Ashim. I find myself with a tendency to be critical, and slightly...intolerantly judging perhaps, until I recognize that's their path and it's an acceptable one. It does seem that an STS path is or can be quite intrusive towards others, however.

Let's just say that if you had been tortured and tormented from birth onwards (actually even in the womb), had your personality forcefully split into up to 169 fragments, had to witness acts that 99% of peoples minds would reject due to their sheer horror etc, then you may start to understand the energies involved. I believe the LSD programming in isolation tanks is particularly 'hellish'. These souls argreed to this pre-incarnation in order to serve along their chosen path.
I know, everbody hurts but these individuals chose a VERY difficult path that is hardly recognised by the 'fluffy bunny' community.
I can understand how STO individuals make them 'sick'.
Generating sufficient hate in order to polarize along the STS path involves a torture of the individual that most folks would not believe, never mind be prepared to go through themselves.
I could go on but it may be better to leave the content of your stomach in tact.

Edit: I before e except after c

I find your post interesting, do you have personal experience with that? Or did you read about it somewhere like Vigilant Citizen?

Thanks for the question turtledude23.
I was going to pm you my response but thought about it and decided that it's ok with me to post this on the forum.
You are right, I have not experienced these things personally.
I first read about the programming through the 'Svali' papers - they shocked me to the core and helped greatly with my awakening.
Certainly not for the faint hearted.
I do however have a very personal connection with the subject matter.
I am neither a programmer nor a 'victim' of this activity but someone very close to me is.
This was her Sacrifice she made in order to be here with us at this time.
It it the girl I fell in love with and married.
We are just beginning the painful process of de-programming.
Again thanks for the astute question.
I have been shown the things that happened to her, and more importantly, the reason for her choosing this path and way of serving.
God bless you.

[turtledude23]

I thought Jesus had unconditional love, as well as the Buddha, and Buddha opened intelligent infinity through it.

Good point.

I've witnessed unconditional love here in 3D and I'm sure lots of others have too. I don't think any of us is perfect in our unconditional love at all times, but we've surely demonstrated and/or received unconditional love at various times in our lives.

Another good point.

I find that during the course of LOO study my bias has changed. In the past I had difficulty extending unconditional love (imagining it) towards those who I perceived had 'hurt me', or us as a collective.
This situation changed to the point where I encountered similar resistance when trying to love those not willing to make the effort of striving for spiritual 'enlightenment'. Those in the 'sinkhole of indifference'.
To paraphrase a poster on another site,
"Useless eaters lying in a puddle of sweat on their sofas with the tv on, munching on their potato chips and drinking their pepsi".
The incredible range of different 'actors' on this stage is really remarkable.
Now I embrace them all, but do have a much reformed view of the STS individuals due to their determination to seek the Creator.
Interesting how knowledge changes ones perspective.
Must get back to chewing out some lazy sheeple.....

Ha! You're ahead of me as to STS individuals, Ashim. I find myself with a tendency to be critical, and slightly...intolerantly judging perhaps, until I recognize that's their path and it's an acceptable one. It does seem that an STS path is or can be quite intrusive towards others, however.

Let's just say that if you had been tortured and tormented from birth onwards (actually even in the womb), had your personality forcefully split into up to 169 fragments, had to witness acts that 99% of peoples minds would reject due to their sheer horror etc, then you may start to understand the energies involved. I believe the LSD programming in isolation tanks is particularly 'hellish'. These souls argreed to this pre-incarnation in order to serve along their chosen path.
I know, everbody hurts but these individuals chose a VERY difficult path that is hardly recognised by the 'fluffy bunny' community.
I can understand how STO individuals make them 'sick'.
Generating sufficient hate in order to polarize along the STS path involves a torture of the individual that most folks would not believe, never mind be prepared to go through themselves.
I could go on but it may be better to leave the content of your stomach in tact.

Edit: I before e except after c

I find your post interesting, do you have personal experience with that? Or did you read about it somewhere like Vigilant Citizen?

Thanks for the question turtledude23.
I was going to pm you my response but thought about it and decided that it's ok with me to post this on the forum.
You are right, I have not experienced these things personally.
I first read about the programming through the 'Svali' papers - they shocked me to the core and helped greatly with my awakening.
Certainly not for the faint hearted.
I do however have a very personal connection with the subject matter.
I am neither a programmer nor a 'victim' of this activity but someone very close to me is.
This was her Sacrifice she made in order to be here with us at this time.
It it the girl I fell in love with and married.
We are just beginning the painful process of de-programming.
Again thanks for the astute question.
I have been shown the things that happened to her, and more importantly, the reason for her choosing this path and way of serving.
God bless you.

Oh dear, I wish you and your wife all the best and I hope she gets back to feeling normal again.

I'm going to google svali, thanks.

I first heard about mind programming through this site http://vigilantcitizen.com/hidden-knowle...d-control/ I'm fascinated by it for some reason, though I doubt I was involved in it in any way.

[Ashim]

The best introduction to 'Svali' and her work can be found here.
Again, this is just a starting point and there is much more info available on the web.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociop.../svali.htm

[almostdone]

The best introduction to 'Svali' and her work can be found here.
Again, this is just a starting point and there is much more info available on the web.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociop.../svali.htm

Some thoughts...

I have read some. She mentions Soviet Union but there is no Soviet Union anymore. In my opinion, she probably does not know much about what is going on.

However, we have the advantage of a very powerful source of knowledge (Ra).

I am not denying that this exists, that there is a "cabal", but at the highest levels they know that this planet will be a 4th density positive planet. Then why to go through all this? Why to create (or try) to create a events that theoretically (if Earth happens not to be a positive planet) when we know form Ra it will be? (note the future).

Probably over 90% of the people of this planet won't be harvested and will repeat 3d (we know harvest will be small from Ra).

So why?

Why not to provide free energy (Tesla did provide howto's long ago), and so many etc's...

It could be that they just want polarization (at the top) but if they are just minions of Orions (mainly 4d's) they are just doing what they are being told.....

So we have to look at time-space reasons as well.

I do not think they are trying to make a world dictatorship (new world order) since it is impossible (this planet will be 4th density positive), however the 3d repeaters in another planet will have a greater possibility that that planet would become a "new world order"...and Ra will be there too ("[...]We will continue in this until your, shall we say, cycle is appropriately ended. If not this one, then the next. We are not a part of time and, thus, are able to be with you in any of your times. [...]

To me, this also implies that if illuminati exists, as many think, that the harvest after all is a sudden type of thing.

Unless over 90% of 7 billion "repeaters" can defeat the "cabal"...

[AnthroHeart]

I struggle too with knowing how I should balance love and wisdom.

[Diana]

In any case, no matter what density you come from, there must be an effect from this density upon all who incarnate here. Think of a shallow water fish finding itself in deep ocean with no light and much pressure.

I liken being here sometimes to swimming upstream. Considering the general state of consciousness here—that of working out Free Will in order to understand cause and effect and ultimately aligning with compassion—there is a thick "atmosphere" of confusion and ignorance (meant in the way that one simply isn't aware yet) which begets cruelty and violence in action and word. I feel tired at times from doing this. It's not that I am resisting what is, rather that I am trying to maintain my own consciousness which is counter to what is prevalent here. This causes a degree of reclusiveness on my part. Perhaps if I were more evolved I could tolerate being here with less work.

[xise]

You learn what you want to.

You can look to the majority to find out what you want to learn, or you can look to what the school was setup for learning. But there's nothing stopping you from taking college level classes in the high school of Earth.

There's a reason wanderers from many different higher densities come to 3D again, in part, to learn. It's because you can learn a variety of lessons here. Learn what you want to learn. And discover who you are in the process.

[AnthroHeart]

The lessons I'm learning are beyond my wildest dreams from when I was behind the veil. I didn't realize I had signed up for such challenging courses.