numbers of incarnations?

[Etude in B Minor]

The thought of having to do another 25,000 years in 3D is somewhat depressing (but what ever will be, will be for the best, of course). Part of this is the idea of having to start over at caveman level. Is that how it works? Another slow crawl back up to civilization?

Then I thought of the numbers. Right now there are about 6 billion souls incarnated (assuming no zombies or automatons) and apparently a long line of souls wishing to incarnate (maybe these are mostly souls recently promoted from 2D and thus not ready to graduate to 4D). Until the past couple of hundred years, however, the population has been much lower (about 250million at 1 AD, and about 5million at 10,000BC). Assuming an average lifetime of 40 years (which would give a slow growth) for the time before 1800AD, it would take maybe about 5000 years to allow 6 billion souls to incarnate at least once each. So, in 25,000 years a soul could work in just 5 incarnations, plus maybe 3 or 4 in the short time of high civilization just before harvest (assuming that is the usual sequence of events). So it would seem there would be a lot of time spent in the inner-planes (Time-space), which maybe wouldn't be caveman level.

Edgar Cayce said that many of the souls incarnating now were from Atlantis and had few if any incarnations in the low-civilization interim. So perhaps it would be the same for those alive now who do not graduate to 4D. They will go to another 3D world, but will not incarnate until the civilization on that world reaches a sufficiently high level for them to be presented with the lessons/challenges that are appropriate for their relatively advanced standing. I assume that the early part of 3D is populated by souls recently promoted from 2D and a few wanderers (from 3D) to help move things along.

[Questioner]

Hi Etude. I see a whole bunch of provocative ideas in your comments. I don't know about any of these!

- The idea that YOU will not make it to Ascension.
- The idea that "indifferent" 3D humanity will crash back to caveman status, and have to rediscover technology and civilization.
- The idea that there is a long line of souls waiting to incarnate in 3D, for which not enough human parents are available.
- The idea that human souls can only have one incarnate life operating at a time. Outside of LLR material, some channeled sources claim that Higher Self souls have multiple human incarnation lives at once, gaining experience that much faster.
- The idea that human soul reincarnation always moves forward in chronological order - so that someone who died in WWII could not have a next life in ancient Egypt, say.

I don't know if any of these ideas can be found in the Ra texts. All interesting concepts to explore, that's for sure.

[CircleofOne]

I really identify with your feelings on the thought of having to repeat 3D, but I would bet Bill Gates's fortune that those of us who have been called to this forum through our various 'wandering' paths are here primarily to aid with the harvest of those individuals whose time in 3D is at and end. Also remember we've chosen to incarnate at the end of a great cycle, when polarization (and those forces that provide catalyst) is working overtime to beat the clock, and life is certainly not always easy or pleasant. At least that's the main reason why I really, really, really do NOT want to continue with more 3D living.

But consider the concepts you've learned from the Ra Material and/or Q'uo sessions, and that your soul never forgets anything that it learns. You may not walk in the perfect path of service to others (do any of us?) but you're grasping the foundation for lessons in 4D. Kind of like when you were in grade school, you heard rumors about the grades above you, and those rumors probably increased as you got into May nearing the end of that grade.

It seems likely to me that if I, or any wanderers, have to repeat a cycle of 3D, despite the fact that they may be vehemently opposed to the idea WHILE INCARNATED, our perspective will be greatly expanded once we drop these fleshy chemical suits. We'll see why things were the way they were. We'll see why we need those lessons. But we'll also get a nice vacation for recovery in the anti-matter universe, the in-between-incarnation zone, before preparing another incarnation.

To me it wouldn't make a lot of sense for 3D to be fully reset to the most primitive levels. I mean it would if humanity blew up the planet, that'd be a pretty good reason to say, "Hey, that didn't work, let's take it back to square one and try again." But I'm confident that's not going to happen. It would perhaps be the case that souls would be taken to planets that are in mid to late stages of 3D great cycles so that they would join in with those "in progress." Hidden Hand presented an interesting idea that life for those who don't graduate would simply continue (albeit on a different, yet identical 3D earth replica) with no noticable change. I never could understand how that would really work though, considering how it would be kind of like the Biblical Rapture where people were just suddenly GONE!

I wonder if zombies are possible in this particular reality?

[Peregrinus]

According to Ra, reincarnation does not happen in a numerical value. It happens as if a distillation process. Those filled with more light will, in a spiritual sense, rise to the top, and these at the top are given priority for life selection. One must also consider that the process of life selection is an automated one until near half way through third density work.

There is another 400 to 500 years of 3D time available for work on Gaia for work, in restoration of the Mother, for those that have harmed their own planet in the past and are close to becoming 4D capable. For those that are not ready, they will choose to go to another 3D planet (about 3000 light years from here) to further continue their experience and polarization. If all goes well on that planet, a single life cycle may be 900 years.

One chooses the life available that will provide the lessons so desired. In this it does not matter if one is a caveman or a spaceman. The lessons, and thusly polarization, are what is important. If no lives are available to learn those lessons, then a spirit will wait. This would appear to be the reason why some Atlanteans will not have reincarnated until recently, whereas others will have continued.

[Questioner]

P, I don't think I've seen any reference before to the distance of the next 3D planet for those continuing Earth's coursework. Can you say any more about this?

[Turtle]

You are not forced to incarnate, it is always your choice.

However, I am sure the overwhelming majority of individuals on this planet will carry with them so much regret (aka karma) into the metaphysical realms, that they will feel re-incarnation is the only proper course of further balancing.

[Eddie]

One of the reasons that I encourage studying the Seth material concurrently with the Ra material is that issues like this one are illuminated. Seth comments frequently that we may (and often do) incarnate in several bodies at the same time, and moreover, not all of those simultaneous incarnations are necessarily on earth. Some of them are not even in systems of reality that we would recognize. So it is possible to have many, many incarnations in 25,000 years.

[jc2412]

I don't believe that continuing 3D incarnations after this one necessarily means that you have to start over with a new 3d civilization. Ra mentions several groups that were grafted in within the last 25 or 30 thousand years. Considering that there are billions of galaxies within the known universes with billions of star each, there must be a planet perfect for each of us to continue our incarnations on from where we left off here (I use we as the population in general...not necessarily we on this forum!)

BTW, which etude in B Minor does your handle refer to?

[Richard]

I don't remember any of the reasons I chose to be here. I don't remember anything about that process of choosing, nor do I remember past lives in detail...if I am remembering them at all. It doesn't depress me to think that I might come back here.

Since I don't l have no current awareness of what I'm missing, I work at doing the best I can in the "now". Its all I know.

Richard

[Etude in B Minor]

The "etude" in my handle refers to Chopin's "Octave" Etude. It was written as a means for practicing octaves (while still sounding great)!

As for incarnating more than one at a time, I think that in some sense all of our incarnations (from 1D through 7D) are all at the same time.

I don't have the quotations at hand (maybe Cyclops will chime in) but I do seem to recall Ra saying that there is a lineup of souls who want to incarnate. In fact he said everyone that is alive now fought tooth and nail to get to the front of the line.

Another question I had about the new 3D planet, is whether it is in the same general neighborhood and therefore subject to a similar strength veiling. Peregrinus mentions 3000 light years away, which is about 10% of the distance from Sol to the Galactic center. So, not too far away. Ra had mentioned that solar systems close to the core do not have a veiling. Maybe with the experience gained under a strong veil the Earth 3D souls would respond well, and quickly, to a lighter or no veil situation. But if it is true, as some have suggested here, that the strong veil is an experiment, it might be premature to remove the veil before these souls graduate to 4D. It might spoil the parameters of the experiment somehow.

[Peregrinus]

Prior to offering my reply/response, please read my disclaimer below

Q, the distance is irrelevant. Please forgive me for offering specifics which is not in accordance as to what is quoted by Ra or Q'uo.

Turtle is correct. All incarnate experiences are by choice. This is, as Ra said, "This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things."

Eddie is also correct. We incarnate in several (eleven I believe) illusions at the same time in order to gain as much experience as we possibly can. I do not think Ra explained this though, so this may be considered erroneous information.

jc is also correct, though one must remember that, according to Ra, only ~15% of Creation uses the bipedal ape as the third density form, and as such, our spiritual DNA could be used anywhere, but we would stand out like a grasshopper man would stand out on Earth. As such, we are restricted to our own little corner of Creation.

Etude, Did Ra state that solar systems near the galactic center "did not", or "do not" have a veil. I understood it that variations were tried but that all 3D planets will be at the same stage according to the Logos desire to evolve the experience, and as such all will be at the same current state.

As for "fighting" to get in... may I suggest a better term would be "eager" to get in?

[Etude in B Minor]

Etude, Did Ra state that solar systems near the galactic center "did not", or "do not" have a veil. I understood it that variations were tried but that all 3D planets will be at the same stage according to the Logos desire to evolve the experience, and as such all will be at the same current state.

As for "fighting" to get in... may I suggest a better term would be "eager" to get in?

------------------------------------
The relevant quote is:

Questioner: Then I am assuming that the central suns of our galaxy, in starting the evolutionary process in this galaxy, provided for, in their plans, the refinement of consciousness through the densities just as we experience it here. However, they did not conceive of the polarization of consciousness with respect to service-to-self and service-to-others. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

Questioner: I would like to question about the third-density experience of those entities just prior to the original extension of the first distortion to the sub-Logoi to create the split of polarity. Can you describe, in general, the differences between the third-density experience of these mind/body/spirits and the ones who have evolved upon this planet now?

Ra: I am Ra. This material has been previously covered. Please query for specific interest.

Questioner: Specifically, in the experience where only the service-to-others polarity in third density evolved, was the veil that was drawn with respect to knowledge of previous incarnations, etc., in effect for those entities?

Ra: I am Ra. No.
---------------------------

[Peregrinus]

The relevant quote is:

Questioner: Then I am assuming that the central suns of our galaxy, in starting the evolutionary process in this galaxy, provided for, in their plans, the refinement of consciousness through the densities just as we experience it here. However, they did not conceive of the polarization of consciousness with respect to service-to-self and service-to-others. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

Questioner: I would like to question about the third-density experience of those entities just prior to the original extension of the first distortion to the sub-Logoi to create the split of polarity. Can you describe, in general, the differences between the third-density experience of these mind/body/spirits and the ones who have evolved upon this planet now?

Ra: I am Ra. This material has been previously covered. Please query for specific interest.

Questioner: Specifically, in the experience where only the service-to-others polarity in third density evolved, was the veil that was drawn with respect to knowledge of previous incarnations, etc., in effect for those entities?

Ra: I am Ra. No.
---------------------------

Although I see mention of the central sun(s), I do not see mention that the veil near the center of this or any other galaxy is any different than at the edge of any galaxy. I would suggest that evolution through the densities occurs more in a unified 'random' respect, if one could call it that, as has been the increase of the veiling experiment throughout each galaxy. I would continue to suggest that the central suns of galaxies send out their 'change waves' (for lack of a better term) which are as though the striking of the clock on the hour, in a form which might be represented by the Fibonacci. In this way there may be a furtherance/variance in what is occurring throughout each galaxy, but generally, aside from variances due to the location of each solar system/planet in relation to this wave; when such an experiment is decided upon, it comes into effect for the entire galaxy during the next "wave pass".

Did this make sense? Vibratory complex of sound... still so lacking hehe

[Etude in B Minor]

was the veil that was drawn with respect to knowledge of previous incarnations, etc., in effect for those entities?

Ra: I am Ra. No.
---------------------------

Although I see mention of the central sun(s), I do not see mention that the veil near the center of this or any other galaxy is any different than at the edge of any galaxy.

As noted in the quote above, the "central suns" did not have a veil at all. So that is quite different than the veiling for us out here in the galactic boonies!

I think the issue is veil or no veil rather than gradations in the strength of the veil. The latter might be a local choice of a particular logos. Even in our solar system the strength of the veil has varied (weak on Venus, strong on Earth).