Discipline

[Cainite]

Is discipline necessarily STS?
can one be disciplined and still STO?

for example, buddist monks deny their base desires, and act/live in a certain framework. isn't that negative? :-/

[Plenum]

Hi Cainite,

I think discipline (like love, and also wisdom) is one of those loaded words which bears further examination.

In this case, I don't think discipline equates with control, but more aligns with the notion of 'training'.  

[rva_jeremy]

Is discipline necessarily STS?
can one be disciplined and still STO?

for example, buddist monks deny their base desires, and act/live in a certain framework. isn't that negative? :-/

Great question.  I'm not sure of the answer, but it's certainly a topic I've thought a lot about.

One way of looking at discipline is that it's a way for the conscious self to deny other aspects of the self through force of will.  The monks you mentioned could be perceived as doing this.  Those of Ra certainly imply that the negative path is one of intensely focused will centered on maintaining the separate self, which certainly strikes me as a kind of discipline.  Discipline is often exercised in order to "overcome" some other behavior, and in one of their most notorious passages, those of Ra have indicated that this is less than ideal. 

However, it seems to me that all physical action is a kind of discipline to the extent that it requires a choice.  Any directed action in third density time space involves choosing amongst at least a few possibilities, any of which could yield different lessons, any of which makes us a slightly different self, only one of which can actually occur.  We cannot experience them all directly in total manifestation.  Therefore, if we think of discipline as a kind of choice that is necessarily a denial of other possibilities within, discipline is inescapable.

Your milage may vary, but for me the bottom line is that no simple, helpful equivalency between discipline and negative polarity is possible.  The primacy of polarity in spiritual evolution appears downright designed to move us down a path where we must discipline ourselves in order to make progress.  Of course, there's nothing ultimately "wrong" with any polarity or discipline.  I think one key difference between the negative and positive paths with respect to discipline, however, is that a STO approach attempts to the greatest extent to love the entire self in spite of its need for discipline.  The STS fellow carves the self out of marble and throws all the excess pieces away in rejection; the STO fellow saves these pieces, treasures them, loves and forgives them.  The STS entity creates a rigid hierarchy within the self that suppresses some parts of the self to exalt others; the STO entity grows by accepting those parts that may be seen as unworthy or unwanted and by doing so they transform before one's eyes from obstacles into gifts.

I think you can be disciplined and be STO -- I really don't think there's any other way to attenuate polarity than through choice and will -- but it's possible to be disciplined without being at war with the self.  It strikes me as unlikely that any Bhuddist monk spending a lifetime in self-contemplation needs to force anything within.  STO discipline is like the natural leader who is followed because of his sheer power of character; people are naturally attracted to a person like that and naturally arrange their actions in harmony with him.  He need not force them; he only need set an example that inspires the best out of them.  If through an act of will we can polarize our fundamental choice, then I think the ideal STO person finds the self falling into line with that choice; the lessons that require more than a light touch, in the end, are lessons, and the discipline to be gained is not the point per se.

Thanks for bringing it up; hope you'll share your thoughts.

[Cainite]

I think the negatively polarized human needs discipline in order to progress on his/her path.
but for positive entities it's not required until 5d. discipline comes with wisdom and wisdom comes with discipline and order. (btw I'm no 5d wanderer.. so I'm probably wrong)

a 3d incarnate being who's path is that of wisdom, requires it as a part of wisdom.
discipline may have a different meaning for each polarity... as Plenum suggests it may mean ''training'' on the positive path and mean the establishment of order through force on the negative path

[rva_jeremy]

as Plenum suggests it may mean ''training'' on the positive path and mean the establishment of order through force on the negative path

I agree; Plenum's explanation is far more succinct and to-the-point. He's definitely correct in that it's a loaded term to which we bring our own baggage.

[Jade]

The Law of One blinks neither at the light or the darkness, but is available for service to others and service to self. However, service to others results in service to self, thus preserving and further harmonizing the distortions of those entities seeking intelligent infinity through these disciplines.

The STO path involves STS. This is why it is the more balanced path. The question is, what is the desired outcome of your discipline? Is it to feed the ego - ie, to make yourself look better, more "balanced", for others to ooo and ahh at your abilities and demeanor? Or is the discipline used more on the path to seek to avoid these things, to develop non-judgement (including of the self), acceptance of all, etc? Both paths take discipline. It's not the action (discipline) that has the polarizing effects, but the desired outcome.

[Cainite]

The Law of One blinks neither at the light or the darkness, but is available for service to others and service to self. However, service to others results in service to self, thus preserving and further harmonizing the distortions of those entities seeking intelligent infinity through these disciplines.

The STO path involves STS. This is why it is the more balanced path. The question is, what is the desired outcome of your discipline? Is it to feed the ego - ie, to make yourself look better, more "balanced", for others to ooo and ahh at your abilities and demeanor? Or is the discipline used more on the path to seek to avoid these things, to develop non-judgement (including of the self), acceptance of all, etc? Both paths take discipline. It's not the action (discipline) that has the polarizing effects, but the desired outcome.

and what if the intention was good and the outcome not as good. this can happen if the intention is not pure enough, specially in a semi-negative society.

ppl did oo and ahh at my abilities.. i didn't enjoy it. it got me only in danger and resulted in misguided witchhunts and lots of slanders.
when I got angry at certain groups of people who had pissed me off I acted in a sts manner, not hurting anyone but just showing them chi manipulation. it was the start of an end.. everything collapsed afterwards... everything

[Matt1]

Ra speaks about the discipline of personality fairly enough, having its roots in the activation of the indigo ray. I think we have a difference between control and discipline.

[Bring4th_Austin]

I certainly don't think that discipline is a concept which is innately negative in polarity. Ra often used the term "discipline" in the context of the positive path, particularly referencing the "disciplined personality." I think that the concepts of discipline and crystallization are connected. When asked to define a "crystallized entity," Ra said:

47.7
We have used this particular term because it has a fairly precise meaning in your language. When a crystalline structure is formed of your physical material the elements present in each molecule are bonded in a regularized fashion with the elements in each other molecule. Thus the structure is regular and, when fully and perfectly crystallized, has certain properties. It will not splinter or break; it is very strong without effort; and it is radiant, traducing light into a beautiful refraction giving pleasure of the eye to many.

The purpose of carefully and consciously opening this channel is to serve in a more dependable way, in a more commonplace or usual way, as seen by the distortion complex of the healer. To others there may appear to be miracles. To the one who has carefully opened the door to intelligent infinity this is ordinary; this is commonplace; this is as it should be. The life experience becomes somewhat transformed and the great work goes on.

The term "discipline" tends to carry a sort of negative charge – in a lot of cases, it is used to convey some sort of control or enforced compliance. I’m quite sure that when Ra uses the term “discipline,” they don’t intend this sort of negative connotation. In the most basic sense, I think Ra intends discipline to mean regular practice, like the regularized bonds of the molecules within crystalline structures, or perhaps even the result of such regular practice. Our minds and bodies can be gently guided into a practice rather than controlled, and once we become regular at this gentle guidance, it become easier and we become more conscious of our ability to do so. Once we are able to guide our minds and bodies without distraction from outer sources and without having to control them, I think then we are crystallized and disciplined. Control isn't needed for discipline, but rather just simple awareness and consistency in what we choose moment to moment.

[Jade]

and what if the intention was good and the outcome not as good. this can happen if the intention is not pure enough, specially in a semi-negative society.

If you intention is (purely) good and the outcome was bad, you still succeeded in your efforts. We aren't responsible for how other people handle the catalyst we offer them, but merely how we present it ourselves.

For an example of mine, I incarnated into a difficult family. I spent most of my childhood trying to soothe their distortions, as I now know the constant activity of harmonizing that I participated in each day. I was basically neglected because I was never a central part of their dramas, no one paid me much mind, but I was also an ideal child in that way so I experienced minimal wrath. Now, as an adult, I experience more of that wrath - no matter how much I tried to be balanced, loving, and accepting in my family relations, they decided the opposite was true of me and see me and my husband now as the pinnacle of evil. The outcome of my awakening on my family unit was "not as good" as the effect on myself. But I can't blame myself, because I sincerely tried my best to be loving towards them and still experienced a backlash of abuse. I had to step away from the situation because no matter how "pure" my "input", the output never matched.

The fact is, since it is my family, that these distortions are preincarnationally decided. My dad and aunt (the primary abusive perps) have tried to learn the lessons of love, but both are nearing the end of their incarnations (self destruction) and seem to have swung the other way. Instead, my job is to mirror back to them their self hatred. (and they have done a good job of mirroring to me mine!) It's not my favorite job, but I have to accept that I *can't* control the outcome, only my intentions. If one has as pure and loving of intentions as possible, no guilt should be experienced - others are still allowed to take catalyst and use it as they please. I just continue to hope and pray for the best outcome for all.

when I got angry at certain groups of people who had pissed me off I acted in a sts manner, not hurting anyone but just showing them chi manipulation. it was the start of an end.. everything collapsed afterwards... everything

This is what happens when one falters in their initiation. They let their newly powerful emotions/abilities get the best of them and they behave opposite of their intended polarity. You can still pick up the pieces and put them back together, in a more desirable configuration, if that is your wish.

[Cainite]

and what if the intention was good and the outcome not as good. this can happen if the intention is not pure enough, specially in a semi-negative society.

If you intention is (purely) good and the outcome was bad, you still succeeded in your efforts. We aren't responsible for how other people handle the catalyst we offer them, but merely how we present it ourselves.

For an example of mine, I incarnated into a difficult family. I spent most of my childhood trying to soothe their distortions, as I now know the constant activity of harmonizing that I participated in each day. I was basically neglected because I was never a central part of their dramas, no one paid me much mind, but I was also an ideal child in that way so I experienced minimal wrath. Now, as an adult, I experience more of that wrath - no matter how much I tried to be balanced, loving, and accepting in my family relations, they decided the opposite was true of me and see me and my husband now as the pinnacle of evil. The outcome of my awakening on my family unit was "not as good" as the effect on myself. But I can't blame myself, because I sincerely tried my best to be loving towards them and still experienced a backlash of abuse. I had to step away from the situation because no matter how "pure" my "input", the output never matched.

The fact is, since it is my family, that these distortions are preincarnationally decided. My dad and aunt (the primary abusive perps) have tried to learn the lessons of love, but both are nearing the end of their incarnations (self destruction) and seem to have swung the other way. Instead, my job is to mirror back to them their self hatred. (and they have done a good job of mirroring to me mine!) It's not my favorite job, but I have to accept that I *can't* control the outcome, only my intentions. If one has as pure and loving of intentions as possible, no guilt should be experienced - others are still allowed to take catalyst and use it as they please. I just continue to hope and pray for the best outcome for all.

when I got angry at certain groups of people who had pissed me off I acted in a sts manner, not hurting anyone but just showing them chi manipulation. it was the start of an end.. everything collapsed afterwards... everything

This is what happens when one falters in their initiation. They let their newly powerful emotions/abilities get the best of them and they behave opposite of their intended polarity. You can still pick up the pieces and put them back together, in a more desirable configuration, if that is your wish.

I liked your story and can relate to some parts of it.

[rva_jeremy]

Ra speaks about the discipline of personality fairly enough, having its roots in the activation of the indigo ray. I think we have a difference between control and discipline.

Is the personality the genuine self?  I guess I've been reading too much Jung lately, heh.

[Minyatur]

Ra speaks about the discipline of personality fairly enough, having its roots in the activation of the indigo ray. I think we have a difference between control and discipline.

Is the personality the genuine self?  I guess I've been reading too much Jung lately, heh.

I think it's the magical personality, which I see as the genuine self.

[AnthroHeart]

Ra speaks about the discipline of personality fairly enough, having its roots in the activation of the indigo ray. I think we have a difference between control and discipline.

Is the personality the genuine self?  I guess I've been reading too much Jung lately, heh.

I think it's the magical personality, which I see as the genuine self.

When we invoke the magical personality, we're in direct touch with the higher self. So I think the higher self is our genuine self.