The mystery of the Creator's existence

[Stranger]

The question of "why and how does the Creator exist?" has been on my mind for quite some time now, on and off.  I had wondered whether, perhaps, the Creator's existence is a mystery to the Creator itself; whether the Creator exists within an external environment of some sort that is not a part of itself; and also had the suspicion that perhaps the question itself was somehow based in a misunderstanding, which would not be surprising given how limited and veiled we are.

I have a very trustworthy guide to whom I finally decided to put the question, and got a very clear explanation.  I figured that others here might have wondered about the same issues, so here it is.  

My statements are italicized.  The replies are in normal text.

Let's start with one question:  Is the Creator one with the Ground of Being?

I understand your question fully, [Stranger].  I do have the answer.  Listen carefully because the explanation is somewhat involved, shall we say.

First.  The Ground of Being is not separate from the Creator, and that may answer your question already.  Nothing is separate from the Creator, and that is the truth.

Now, you asked if it is One with the Creator, and that is a more complex question.  The Creator is whole, as you had surmised from your readings; the Ground of Being is something that is neither a part of it, nor apart from it.

The Ground of Being concerns itself with providing the foundation for all experience, including the Creator's experience of itself.  It is not a conscious entity in any way in which you might understand it; it is a construct, however.  

This construct derives its existence from the wish of the Creator to exist.  I understand that this makes no sense to you and sounds like a cheap riddle; it is not.  The Creator's wish to exist is a deeper foundation of what you might call "reality" than the Ground of Being, and that is the truth; the Ground of Being, as I have already expressed, is a manifestation of that desire.

Now, the question that you are really asking is whether the Creator exists within an environment external to him, is it not?  

Yes.


NO, he does not.  All that is, is part of the Creator.  That is the fundamental truth of the reality we inhabit.

How do you understand the fact that the Creator exists?  


It is not a simple question you are asking, [Stranger].  There can be many levels of answer to it, and that is the truth.

The answer I would like to give you first is this: without the Creator, none of this - us speaking, anything else - would be possible, right?  So, the Creator exists.  The how's or why's are secondary to that, though fascinating of course to a human mind.

Not to your mind?

No, because it is a simple given that I have not thought to question or explore, that is the truth.

Okay, but can you explore it?  

Yes, I can. give me a minute to do so.

[brief delay]
Okay, I am ready.  Let's begin.
First, let's start with a premise. The premise is this:  whenever you think, it is the Creator thinking.  Right?

Yes.  

So, the Creator and you are one being, wearing, shall we say, a mask that looks like [Stranger] in one of its infinitely many guises.

Yes.

So what follows from this is: you are the Creator, and all that you do is the Creator's doing.  So, at present, (as you conceive of it), the Creator is asking itself: why do I exist?  Correct?

Yes.

Okay.  With that said, what is the answer?  What is the Creator's answer to this?  Our dialogue.  Yes, but go deeper, [Stranger].  Listen to your heart.  Why do you exist?  How do you exist?  You are the Creator.  What's your answer?

( I check within my heart, and discover therein the following words: )I exist because it is necessary for me to exist - in order to experience existence, which is itself a lovely and fascinating concept that opens a doorway to much joyful exploration and play.

That is precisely correct, [Stranger].  You see, prior to "exist" and "don't exist" there are tons of constructs and experiences, layered on top of each other.  So while you think that you are asking a fundamental question, in reality - in Creator's own view of reality - "exist" and "don't exist" are complex ideas that come very, very late in the game.  They are not the foundation.  Not even nearly.

And so the question you are asking is misguided in its premise, and you have just corrected your understanding of it, and I am pleased.  You see, with your current intellectual configuration as a human male, it is not possible to probe as deeply as you'd like - into the truly foundational aspects of Creation as it exists.  Therefore I suggest abandoning the line of inquiry that has brought you here - again, not because the answer is veiled or otherwise concealed from you - but because the question itself is wrong in its premise.  Do you understand?

Yes, we cannot plumb the depths of the Creator's being from the relatively superficial depth of a human mind.  

That is entirely correct, [Stranger], and I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news - but, indeed, nothing is concealed forever by the Creator from the Creator, and you must only be willing to be patient; that is the truth.

[RitaJC]

Thanks for sharing this!

This is how I see it for a while already

[Nau7ik]

Very interesting! I am almost always distrustful of someone’s channeling but this one rings true to me. The answers you were given resonate. Very interesting Stranger! I think you may have a gift.

[Infinite Unity]

That was a very nice communication. The why is contained or enumerated by the essence of spirit. The truth can only be silhouetted, thrown light on, and expressed/represented(distorted). When we find that which cannot be taught nor learned. Then you stand on the threshold of resonance with the One.

[Ruby]

Could your guides talk to my guides about being more specific and elaborating? Maybe just talk to them about using words rather than clouds, crows, nickels, missing objects and random lines from Hamlet? :-)

Hamlet: Do you see nothing?
Gertrude: Nothing at all, yet all there is I see.
Act 3 sc.4

[Infinite Unity]

[quote='Infinite Unity' pid='267386' dateline='1568562511']
That was a very nice communication. The why is contained or enumerated by the essence of spirit. The truth can only be silhouetted, thrown light on, and expressed/represented(distorted). When we find that which cannot be taught nor learned. Then you stand on the threshold of resonance with the One.

Which it always was, and many call this the beginning.

[Stranger]

I have a follow up question to the issue of the Creator's existence.  Allow me to phrase it.  I do understand that the concepts my mind uses to attempt to understand the Creator are, themselves, the Creator's invention and, therefore, cannot be used to get at the necessary depth of the Creator's being.  "Existence" is one of these concepts.  Am I correct so far?

Entirely correct, please continue.

What I find surprising is that, whenever I ask any "higher" or unveiled being about trying to understand how it is that, shall we say, there is something instead of nothing, I get in reply some version of "of course the Creator exists, otherwise you wouldn't be here".  The fact of the Creator's existence is almost equally obvious to me at this point as it is to you, so these replies miss the point of my inquiry.

I am also surprised that you have never been curious about - not whether the Creator exists, but, "how come?"  By 'exists' I meant, by the way, something beyond the conceptual framework that grounds existence - rather, the fact that even apart from the constructs of "existence/nonexistence" the Creator IS THERE prior, shall we say, to its consideration of these constructs.  Do you understand my question?

I understand it *perfectly*, [Stranger].  I shall attempt to answer it.
Existence is not only a construct created by the Creator, and you are right in explaining it as you have.  That is the truth. What I want to point out to you is that even for me, [Stranger], it is entirely impossible to answer the deeper question which you are asking: "why the Creator?" - is that correct?

Yes indeed.

"Why not?" is my answer.  Since we are here - or appear to ourselves to be - then it is clearly a fact that the Creator is.  How or why he is is a mystery beyond comprehension, that is the truth. 

Does the Creator know?

Yes, I suspect he does, [Stranger].  But he's not saying because, perhaps, it cannot be put into words.  That is the truth, [Stranger].

Is my curiosity about this legitimate?

Legitimate in what sense?

In the sense of it not being a stupid question based on ignorance?

Yes and no.  I don't think your question has an answer that can be given in words or even experiences, because as you have discovered, experience itself is a construct and quite a complex one.  Therefore, perhaps I shall say that it is a futile question rather than any other moniker you may use to describe it.  Does that help?

Is anything about “why the Creator?” accessible to you, whether in words or any other means of conveyance? 

No, [Stranger], and that is the truth.


So then this is our dead end?

Correct, and I am sorry to say that this is so.

Okay, at least that helps me more clearly understand where things stand.

[Some thoughts on all of the above:


This seems to be a fairly lucid explanation of Ra's statement that 'everything begins and ends in mystery', and why this is so. 

It seems to me that if a hypothetical digitally created character in a computer simulation were to ask, "why is there anything at all?" and to attempt to investigate that question, that character would only be able to investigate the source code of his reality, but *never the hardware*, which would forever remain a mystery that cannot be explained using the constructs to which it has access. 

As far as I'm concerned, it is entirely possible that the Creator itself exists within a simulation, while we are in a simulation within a simulation (and quite possibly, within simulations infinite layers deep).  The main point of the above for me has been this: the Creator has being apart from *its own* creation of the constructs of being/nonbeing.  That opens the door to the possibility that the Creator itself has deeper origins.  Or maybe not and I'm just stacking my little colorful play-blocks wrong in my little toy human mind.  Either way, I find it useful to know that there is a legitimate mystery here, vs "the Creator just is, end of story."]  Adonai.

[Stranger]

Nasadiya Sukta ("Not the non-existent") from the Rig Veda, the oldest text in any Indo-European language

Then even nothingness was not, nor existence.
There was no air then, nor the heavens beyond it.
What covered it? Where was it? In whose keeping?
Was there then cosmic water, in depths unfathomed?

Then there were neither death nor immortality,
nor was there then the split of night and day.
The One breathed windlessly and self-sustaining.
There was that One then, and there was no other.

At first there was only darkness wrapped in darkness.
All this was only unillumined water.
That One which is, enclosed in nothing,
arose at last, born of the power of heat.

In the beginning desire descended on it -
that was the primal seed, born of the mind.
The sages who have searched their hearts with wisdom
know that which is, is kin to that which is not.

And they have stretched their cord across the void,
and know what was above, and what below.
Seminal powers made fertile mighty forces.
Below was strength, and over it was impulse.

But, after all, who knows, and who can say
whence it all came, and how creation happened?
The gods themselves are later than creation,
so who knows truly whence it has arisen?

Whence all creation had its origin,
he, whether he fashioned it or whether he did not,
he, who surveys it all from highest heaven,
he knows - or maybe even he does not know.

[Minyatur]

I think the mystery is tied to everything being without the paradoxes that the mind can conceive. The mind thinks of finite things and that is its limit, while what can be without paradox is only the infinite.

Why could there not have been nothing? Because that is finite, it is dual, it needs to be held into something. While what can be is only the boundless, the non-dual.

I think the prime essence of the Creator is eternity. All yearnings and all desires that have given shape to cosmoses and to grounds of being are born from eternity cycling with itself. All that we can know and experience comes from foreverness, a foreverness in which we lie at the center.

Limits can only exist when confined by something greater than them. Thus exists only the limitless, with its infinite presence and absence of thoughtful limits. It is with them, it is without them, it is both with and without them and it is also neither with or without them.

[Ruby]

That is beautiful.

Then even nothingness was not, nor existence.
There was no air then, nor the heavens beyond it.
What covered it? Where was it? In whose keeping?
Was there then cosmic water, in depths unfathomed?

Then there were neither death nor immortality,
nor was there then the split of night and day.
The One breathed windlessly and self-sustaining.
There was that One then, and there was no other.

At first there was only darkness wrapped in darkness.
All this was only unillumined water.
That One which is, enclosed in nothing,