What's a spirit?

[Aaron]

I am trying to find a more "universal" --no pun intended.. approach/context to spirit --not only based on this density, and at the end, it blends with the Creator at least in this Octave. Obviously (I repeat) Creator is much more and unknown but we are part of It and spirit is the only energy (part of the Creator) surviving through the densities...that's what I refer to by spirit being Creator but even so...there seems to be a transformation of energy and indeed spirit becames the shuttle back..

Doesn't all the matter of the universes coalesce into the one Infinite Creator also at the octave end? So, that would seem to include not only an entity's spirit, but their mind and body too, in all of the densities that they've experienced/are experiencing.

So I guess my point is that I don't think that spirit can be defined only as the "thing that merges with the Creator". But I do agree with you that it is the only part of the mind/body/spirit complex that is eternal (surviving through the densities).

Maybe we can define it as a timeless shuttle of energy? We can say that it's the portion of the mind/body/spirit complex most in tune with the Creator.

[Crimson]

I am trying to find a more "universal" --no pun intended.. approach/context to spirit --not only based on this density, and at the end, it blends with the Creator at least in this Octave. Obviously (I repeat) Creator is much more and unknown but we are part of It and spirit is the only energy (part of the Creator) surviving through the densities...that's what I refer to by spirit being Creator but even so...there seems to be a transformation of energy and indeed spirit becames the shuttle back..

Doesn't all the matter of the universes coalesce into the one Infinite Creator also at the octave end? So, that would seem to include not only an entity's spirit, but their mind and body too, in all of the densities that they've experienced/are experiencing.

So I guess my point is that I don't think that spirit can be defined only as the "thing that merges with the Creator". But I do agree with you that it is the only part of the mind/body/spirit complex that is eternal (surviving through the densities).

Maybe we can define it as a timeless shuttle of energy? We can say that it's the portion of the mind/body/spirit complex most in tune with the Creator.

I was trying to get away from defining "spirit" --for all practical purposes (due to acquiring conciousness) --as "starting" on 3d or late 2d. I was looking at it as a continuum if that is even possible...Probably i should not have said "spirit is the Creator" as I was thinking of the meaning Ra was giving when they stated "gaze within a mirror see the Creator"...etc...

defining spirit as a "timeless shuttle of energy" probably puts spirit outside timelesness. I don't know if I want to go so far as that since in other octaves it can be different...

The first being appears to be the photon...I am using the concept of "spirit" to provide a continuity...at least in this octave.

We can say that it's the portion of the mind/body/spirit complex most in tune with the Creator.

Probably this is a practical def for 3d language limitations...it might be that it is not possible to provide a correct definition of "spirit", because it is impossible not to include infinite intelligence or the Creator.

[unity100]

according to what Ra says above, spirit is not 'the creator'. or infinite intelligence.

Spirit appears to be the "core" manifestation of the Creator or central Sun or what it "remains"..ie: once body and mind are gone, spirit remains.

I think spirit has different definitions according to the context/environment is in:

In this octave, spirit first acquires consciousness in yellow ray or 3rd. I think that quote you talk about refers primarily to 3rd density mind/body/spirit complex in space-time.

Could be that the term spirit only applies to this octave until:

ra says one of those in mind/body/spirit complex cannot exist without others. so, it wouldnt be possible to reduce highest logos only to spirit.

[Crimson]

according to what Ra says above, spirit is not 'the creator'. or infinite intelligence.

Spirit appears to be the "core" manifestation of the Creator or central Sun or what it "remains"..ie: once body and mind are gone, spirit remains.

I think spirit has different definitions according to the context/environment is in:

In this octave, spirit first acquires consciousness in yellow ray or 3rd. I think that quote you talk about refers primarily to 3rd density mind/body/spirit complex in space-time.

Could be that the term spirit only applies to this octave until:

ra says one of those in mind/body/spirit complex cannot exist without others. so, it wouldnt be possible to reduce highest logos only to spirit.

Negative 5d are isolated...and highest logos is outside the octave or octaves

What I am starting to see via this thread is that spirit is more significant than I thought...not limited to a 3d start...and as a transformation of energy that is able to gain "spiritual mass"..since it gives continuance to the experience for the Creator.

as a matter of "fact" spirit is what incarnates for a wanderer on 3d body/mind...

A harvest in spirit/s (I think), is what Ra wishes to accomplish to go back to the Creator then is part of "everything" and outside this octave being One with the Creator.

Obviously the Creator cannot be reduced just to this "spirit" since it is only part of it...

If it started from "above" and then it goes back changing via densities and acquiring "mass"...

If we take "spirit" as starting on 3d (per acquisition of consciousness), then it correlates with the body/mind/spirit complexes, but then somehow I see a "broken" unity --probably artificially by having different definitions.

[unity100]

its not that spirit gains consciousness at start of 3d, but its that mind/body/spirit becomes aware of its own spirit. spirit is always there, as what is mentioned in the material in the talk about how pyramids were built and the rock-beingness of the 1d entities.

[Lavazza]

Most references made by Ra regarding the spirit complex seem to indicate its role is as a shuttle whereby an entities individual energy or consciousness can communicate with intelligent infinity and vice versa.

So what exactly is consciousness then? I thought the spirit was equal to it, but if the spirit is a shuttle by which consciousness can travel then I need to rethink this. I had assumed the spirit was consciousness because awhen a human dies it's body and brains will decompose, and yet the conscious personality will leave and go where it will. So what is leaving? Feeling a bit confused here. Maybe I am wrong by presuming brains = mind?

Yours in confusion,
Eric

[Aaron]

We can say that it's the portion of the mind/body/spirit complex most in tune with the Creator.

Probably this is a practical def for 3d language limitations...it might be that it is not possible to provide a correct definition of "spirit", because it is impossible not to include infinite intelligence or the Creator.

Hah, imagine trying to explain the body to a rock or the mind to a squirrel! I think that as we move closer to fourth density, we'll look back on our ineptitude on this point and have quite a laugh!!

[Whitefeather]

I found a transcript from a channeling from Q'uo, which could be of interest in this topic.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0213.aspx

A few excerpts:

"The term “spirit” and the term “consciousness” cannot be said to be congruent. .../...

Spirit, as we use the term, is that portion of consciousness which is not manifest in your world. You may apprehend spirit in many ways. You may apprehend spirit as the voice of your conscience, your higher self, or your guidance. You may apprehend spirit as that energy that surrounds you, that comes to you from the trees, the animals, the plants, the wind, the earth, fire and water. .../...

As you can see, spirit could be associated with the concept of intelligent energy, but only loosely, for intelligent energy is that which creates all that there is in its manifested form. Spirit, on the other hand, is that which is not manifest...."

Enjoy! Learning is fun!

Btw, Crimson, thank you for offering a discussion but I 'm not interested in the arguments you present. With respect, they are of no interest to me. I said what I wanted to say about 'spirit' of a 'body/mind/spirit' complex. I am happy!
'Spirit' is what it is, which is energy ("which is not manifest") and, cannot entirely be described by the limitation of words. Besides, everyone grasps what they grasp at a different timing, with a different perspective - their own unique one - and, it is perfectly fine ... ! I respect things this way.

Love and Light to you Friends who contributed to this thread and, keep the spirit!

Whitefeather

[unity100]

Most references made by Ra regarding the spirit complex seem to indicate its role is as a shuttle whereby an entities individual energy or consciousness can communicate with intelligent infinity and vice versa.

So what exactly is consciousness then? I thought the spirit was equal to it, but if the spirit is a shuttle by which consciousness can travel then I need to rethink this. I had assumed the spirit was consciousness because awhen a human dies it's body and brains will decompose, and yet the conscious personality will leave and go where it will. So what is leaving? Feeling a bit confused here. Maybe I am wrong by presuming brains = mind?

Yours in confusion,
Eric

the above quote seems to equate energy with consciousness. 'entities individual energy or consciousness' it says.

then it means energy is consciousness. this falls back to infinite intelligence, or intelligent energy in meaning. the individual energy is a fragment of that intelligent energy.

so then to analyze consciousness one needs to look at intelligent energy.

[Lavazza]

the above quote seems to equate energy with consciousness. 'entities individual energy or consciousness' it says.

then it means energy is consciousness. this falls back to infinite intelligence, or intelligent energy in meaning. the individual energy is a fragment of that intelligent energy.

so then to analyze consciousness one needs to look at intelligent energy.

I think I see. Much in the same way we have the concept of waves carrying information about something, yes? The waves can transmit ideas- and yet the wave is nothing in and of itself, it is simply the expression of energy causing things to vibrate which can be interpreted and then equated with ideas... pehaps that analogy would work.

So our consciousness in that case is a portion of the One Infinite Creator- that is to say, a portion of intelligent energy that is expressing itself upon and via a mind/body/spirit complex. the M/B/S C. is the matter that vibrates in expression of the energy given. And the sum total of that energy and that which vibrates because of it is our consciousness?

[unity100]

i generally see it like this :

imagine a still pool of water. now, imagine that the pool is not still, but, it is wavy. now, you see potential - there are waves that has potential to do things.

now imagine that these waves concentrate or refract at a point to make a noticeable refraction. there is a focus. that concept is probably finity concept. all the other concepts, ranging from body to spirit, are created from these.

of course, its two dimensional in this example. but you get the idea.

[Lavazza]

So in your analogy, the pool is Infinity. The waves are intelligent energy. The focus / refraction point is Finity, and the change of waves due to the Finity points exchanges with the waves results in the manifested creation (including m/b/s complexes). Where does consciousness sit then in this landscape?

We know that our consciousness is not tied to the body (out of body experiences, near death experiences). We know that it is not tied to the brain / mind (remote viewing, telepathy). And we're sort of establishing in this thread that consciousness is not the spirit, the spirit being rather a pathway or silver cord back to the greater pool of all that is (to fit it in to your pool analogy, it might be a ship that can go where it will on the seas). So... is consciousness the sailor? He can go ashore to the island of Finity and hang out for a while (incarnation in space/time), take his row boat out for a little ride (dreams at night, OBEs), and when his time has come, the larger ship comes to port and takes him back to sea, or back to a bigger land mass (when he dies).

Does that sound about right?

[unity100]

the water (pool) is infinity. wavy water, is intelligent infinity/infinite intelligence. a focus, is indeed finity. but, it may or may not be a refraction point - more like a wave generating or attracting point is a focus - ie something that exists as a 'thing'.

consciousness is the point of wavy water, its intelligent infinity.

[3DMonkey]

I don't think Ra ever defined what a spirit is in a mind/body/spirit complex. Is it consciousness itself? Where does the mind end and the spirit begin? What can it do? If someone is overwhelmed with joy or overwhelmed with depression is that a mental or spiritual experience?

Ra is very vague, and intentionally so.

Spirit is mystery. I'm not trying to be smart. I'm serious. The spirit is intended to be the mystery in third density. It is not consciousness. Joy is a feeling tied with experience. The mind, the body, the spirit are also each reflected in the other. Joy/Experience is for the mind/body/spirit complex.

Spirit is the connection to time/space. It is the darkness and the enlightenment. It is what carries faith. Spirit is definitely a part of us, and it is purposely a mystery. That's what it does.

---

May god be praised and worshipped forever unto infinity.

why. does it need it.

I have the deep confusion as to whether god is personal or impersonal, or in fact somewhere in between.

Just trying to earn some brownie points in case god is indeed invested with a personality

Hey, if you are praising the One, you are expressing approval and admiration for us all. We need that. We certainly do.

[Confused]

I don't think Ra ever defined what a spirit is in a mind/body/spirit complex.

The following quote may help -

30.5 Questioner: I would like to know how the mind/body/spirit complexes originate, going as far back as necessary. How does the origination occur? Do they originate by spirit forming mind and mind forming body? Can you tell me this?

Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider that you are attempting to trace evolution. This evolution is as we have previously described, the consciousness being first, in first density, without movement, a random thing. Whether you may call this mind or body complex is a semantic problem. We call it mind/body complex recognizing always that in the simplest iota of this complex exists in its entirety the One Infinite Creator; this mind/body complex then in second density discovering the growing and turning towards the light, thus awakening what you may call the spirit complex, that which intensifies the upward spiraling towards the love and light of the Infinite Creator.

The addition of this spirit complex, though apparent rather than real, it having existed potentially from the beginning of space/time, perfects itself by graduation into third density, When the mind/body/spirit complex becomes aware of the possibility of service to self or other-self, then the mind/body/spirit complex is activated.

[Ens Entium]

The following quote may help -

30.5 Questioner: I would like to know how the mind/body/spirit complexes originate, going as far back as necessary. How does the origination occur? Do they originate by spirit forming mind and mind forming body? Can you tell me this?

Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider that you are attempting to trace evolution. This evolution is as we have previously described, the consciousness being first, in first density, without movement, a random thing. Whether you may call this mind or body complex is a semantic problem. We call it mind/body complex recognizing always that in the simplest iota of this complex exists in its entirety the One Infinite Creator; this mind/body complex then in second density discovering the growing and turning towards the light, thus awakening what you may call the spirit complex, that which intensifies the upward spiraling towards the love and light of the Infinite Creator.

The addition of this spirit complex, though apparent rather than real, it having existed potentially from the beginning of space/time, perfects itself by graduation into third density, When the mind/body/spirit complex becomes aware of the possibility of service to self or other-self, then the mind/body/spirit complex is activated.

Yes...

3rd denity is a density in which entities have free will, resulting in a choice which gives focus to thought and action. Notice how this is a stepped down of free will finding focus, which is the logos... notice now why i likened the spirit to logos. i did so for many other reasons, which i outlined in the 4th and 9th posts of this thread.

It seems that that approach was not understood.. I was making a likeness, due to the many correspondences i perceived between logos and spirit. i never said it was the logos. i also made the point about the likeness of properties and functions being environmentally defined and also where on the levels of the holographic scheme the spirit.

[3DMonkey]

Logos is quite the mystery as well. Striving to illuminate the darkness with flashes of light.

[Ens Entium]

Indeed, 3D Monkey. Remember, i was not attempting to penetrate the essence of either. Just to highlight correspondences, so that we can help ourselves when thinking about such things.