What do you think "density" means?

[anagogy]

When Ra refers to "density" what do you think that they mean?

Personally I think they mean "density of consciousness".  I think that a greater amount of "spiritual gravity" (which is synonymous with polarity) results in a higher concentration of awareness. It would seem to me that higher densities are NOT more dense with matter.  

In fact, it seems that the lower the density is, the more concentrated or dense the matter is, and the higher the density, the more concentrated the presence of mind or awareness (and the lighter the manifestation of matter).

What do YOU think?

[Bourbon Betty]

Ability to pile up people in a linear fashion that respond to you as the center of their desires subconciously.

Amoeba would be density 1 while say, a corporation with 99 tiers would be density 99.

[Plenum]

In fact, it seems that the lower the density is, the more concentrated or dense the matter is, and the higher the density, the more concentrated the presence of mind or awareness (and the lighter the manifestation of matter).

yeah, I think that's right.  Whenever Ra referred to greater 'denseness' it was always in relation to light.  So the physical vehicles get progressively more 'light packed' and 'dense'.  Density is definitely in the context of 'light material'.

Personally I think they mean "density of consciousness".  I think that a greater amount of "spiritual gravity" (which is synonymous with polarity) results in a higher concentration of awareness. It would seem to me that higher densities are NOT more dense with matter.  

I personally think that the physical vehicle associated with each density directly limits the experiential consciousness possible.  So basically the mind complex puts a brake on 'pure consciousness' and runs it through the 7 rays associated with that particular density.  Ra mentioned (in one of the most delightful answers) that the rays in each density have such a different meaning, that it's hard for us to conceive.  And so the amount and quality of work is vastly different, even though the schema of the 7 energy centres holds throughout the densities.

This is why dual activated individuals have such a leg up on 3d-physical natives.  They have a relatively unimpaired connection to their spirit complex; as opposed to everyone else who has to develop it by experience in that lifetime.  That's their birthright - and also the gift to all positive graduates who are making Earth their new home.  The rest of us can only wonder as to how and why they are so clear and articulated in their 'understandings of love'.  

[anagogy]

I personally think that the physical vehicle associated with each density directly limits the experiential consciousness possible.  So basically the mind complex puts a brake on 'pure consciousness' and runs it through the 7 rays associated with that particular density.  Ra mentioned (in one of the most delightful answers) that the rays in each density have such a different meaning, that it's hard for us to conceive.  And so the amount and quality of work is vastly different, even though the schema of the 7 energy centres holds throughout the densities.

That's a good point about the rays taking on different meanings in other densities.

From my perspective, since we are 3rd density and thus primarily yellow ray identified, we see all the other rays of the octave through that identification, so for us red ray is something like: the "survival of self awareness" and orange ray is the "personal growth of self awareness" and so on.  In the next density, when we are green ray identified, we would see the rays through THAT lens, so it would be something like the "survival of empathy" for red ray and the "personal growth of empathy for orange" and so on up the rays.  

The more primal lens or ray in front completely alters the conscious interpretation of the lens in back, creating a different type of perceptual experience. It is interesting to think about how the meanings will change.

[AnthroHeart]

How dense the Field is from which stuff is manifested.

[Nicholas]

I think that it means there is less "space" between atoms, and more "time" to study.  Atoms representing data in dot form. The circle, or membrane surrounding this dot is time. So more data is available within the same amount of space as we travel back home, and more time is at our disposal to reflect upon the data encapsulated within time. Thus space diminishes, and time slows, relative to our own capacity to analyse space and navigate time.

I have absolutely no idea if any of this makes any sense. I think I was onto something here, but have given myself a brain ache trying to understand what exactly I am trying to say! 

[JustLikeYou]

Precisely speaking, the basic unit of matter (according to Ra) is the photon. Thus, a denser illusion is one that has photons clustered closer together.

To say that higher densities have denser matter is literally true on this account, but visually misleading. It's probably more appropriate to imagine them as brighter.

[AnthroHeart]

Is the sun still yellow in 4D?

[Jade]

I think that as the densities get more packed with light, the light is more obvious/able to be tapped/used. So as you ascend the densities, you get better at working with light.

[Bourbon Betty]

Is the sun still yellow in 4D?

Actually, the sun is a mix between deep purple, yellow, black (something that comes as a surprise to people as the background of 4th D is usually light teal), blue white.

Though thats just my personal experience.

[rva_jeremy]

It's a great question, something we often take for granted while reading but don't really get into. If you look at earlier Confederation channeling, say from the 70s, "dimension" and "density" are used almost completely interchangeably. I would agree with the implication you seem to be making that their settling on "density" rather than dimension, as seemed to happen at the time of the Ra contact, conveys a significance and is not simply a stylistic or arbitrary choice. I also think it's easy to think of densities as attitudinal or philosophical zones and forget that we are talking about a supposed physical fact of nature here, one with implications for material reality, as fantastic as it can sometimes seem! So the question is much appreciated.

My mental model comes from the Wilcock view of Ra's cosmology, which breaks it down in very simple terms I think. If we accept that space is not a void but a "plenum" of "aether" or "interstellar medium" or what have you, and that this medium carries some sort of energetic/vibratory resonance, then we can reason about it in some of the same ways we reason about "density" with materials. The densities of vibration separate the same way that two liquids would tend to separate based on their relative densities (say, oil and water). The higher the energetic vibration, e.g. the more energy that a given unit of space contains, the higher the density is.

There is some sort of principle at work in vibration that breaks the spectrum into quanta, or discrete units. We see it in music: people do use microtones--notes between the 12 basic notes of the western music system--but it sounds weird compared to playing the diatonic scale (do re me fa so la ti do). The same with light: we can identify the "pure", basic colors in a way that "clicks" even though you can find colors between the basic 7. Can you slide between notes and colors and find stuff in between? Of course! But the point is to understand the way our mind recognizes when the vibrations are in their proper "slots" rather than not. There simply are resonances with discrete boundaries with vibration, and it seems that since this principle pervades the Creation, we should expect the same kinds of principles in the densities. And since we're part of this, we have ways of distinguishing these vibratory units--some better than others, but everybody has a sense that comes from our nature as vibration.

I don't think this is a perfect model by any means, but it's how I think about it.

P.S. I do think it's weird that in certain places Confederation sources talk about the higher densities as less dense, not more, than the lower densities. It's a weird way to think about it, and the above is partially how I reconcile it, and might give you an idea of why I'm not totally at peace with that model. I do wonder about this notion of "spiritual gravity" that anagogy and others mentioned above; perhaps lower densities are more dense in some basic kind of material that then gets displaced by more of a less dense material? This makes me think of Plenum's model of "transordination" too, though I'm having trouble expressing it. Just some errant thoughts! I had a vision of reality being a jar of oil and water that gets "shaken up" at Creation, and we're part of the intelligence of those liquids in reordering, and that this is the kind of transordination that allows the restructuring of unity to occur, but it's just a passing thought I"m not attached to and now I'm rambling.

[Aion]

The second is of greater density than the first.



Density increases with frequency and pertains to the geometric relationships within light. More dense = more relationships which results in a more fluidic, flexible illusion. Less dense means fewer possibilities of form due to limitations of geometry. I would describe it as a "higher rate of interaction".

[Bring4th_Austin]

P.S. I do think it's weird that in certain places Confederation sources talk about the higher densities as less dense, not more, than the lower densities.  It's a weird way to think about it, and the above is partially how I reconcile it, and might give you an idea of why I'm not totally at peace with that model. I do wonder about this notion of "spiritual gravity" that anagogy and others mentioned above; perhaps lower densities are more dense in some basic kind of material that then gets displaced by more of a less dense material?  This makes me think of Plenum's model of "transordination" too, though I'm having trouble expressing it. Just some errant thoughts!  I had a vision of reality being a jar of oil and water that gets "shaken up" at Creation, and we're part of the intelligence of those liquids in reordering, and that this is the kind of transordination that allows the restructuring of unity to occur, but it's just a passing thought I"m not attached to and now I'm rambling.

Awesome discussion all around. Just wanted to share this point from the Ra material where Ra refers to a lower density body as being "less dense":

The fourth-density entities which incarnate at this space/time are fourth density in the view of experience but are incarnating in less dense vehicles due to desire to experience and aid in the birth of fourth density upon this plane.

They are basically saying that the fourth-density entities are incarnating not in fourth-density bodies, but "less dense" bodies (third-density bodies, or dual-activated bodies). I'm not sure if I recall the Confederation referring to higher density bodies as "less dense," but I do think it could be seen to be correct from a different context. There is often a comparison between chemical bodies and electric bodies, making chemical bodies seem more "physically dense" than the higher density bodies. But I wonder if comparing physical density to the type of density that Ra talks about is even a relevant connection.

[AnthroHeart]

I don't think our bodies are 3D, but only our mind. When we get to 4D, then our bodies too will be 4D.

[anagogy]

There are areas where they refer to higher density energies being "lighter" which could be interpreted as them physically weighing less (or being less affected by gravity) or alternatively as in, literally, having more light energy.  I suspect it is, to some degree, a combination of both, since they have stated that 4th density is not one of "heavy chemical vehicles for body complex activities".  

They have also said the nature of all energy is light.  If that is the case then what we call "matter" is just slowed down light energy.  "Frozen" light energy if you will.  So I believe speaking strictly in a physical sense, that as we move on to higher densities the physical bodies are leaning more and more in the direction of purely "energy bodies" rather than bodies made of matter, or slower light.  Essentially they are bodies leaning more in the direction of "pure motion" as opposed to stored potential motion (like we see in matter).  The time/space "bodies" are a completely different animal, from my perspective (which I would liken more to intangible psychological thought/form layers to our consciousness).

So my current thinking is density simply refers to concentration of energy, both physically and mentally.  A more conscious mind requires a higher energy vehicle to contain it for work in a given physical reality.  So it makes sense to me that it would require some sort of advanced electromagnetic light body to contain the consciousness of a higher density incarnate.  

I tend to think of visible light as the symbolic reflection of invisible consciousness.  One is physical light, the other is nonphysical light.  Both are agents of "illumination".  

[AnthroHeart]

Some spiritual masters can manifest something from nothing but the energy field. I wonder what it takes to be able to do that.

[third-density-being]

Hello Dear Anagogy,

You offer basic and yet very interesting and important questions. I’ve search through the First Book of The Law of One to find all different ways Ra referred to term “density”:

Density, also described by Ra as: channel / dimension / vibratory distortion / light/love vibratory distortion complex / illusion / vibrational complex / vibrational spectrum

Two quotes regarding densities:

7.16
Questioner: I’m trying to understand how a group such as the Orion group
would progress. How it would be possible, if you were in the Orion group,
and pointed toward self-service, to progress from our third density to the
fourth. What learning would be necessary for that?

Ra: I am Ra. This is the last question of length for this instrument at this
time.

You will recall that we went into some detail as to how those not oriented
towards seeking service for others yet, nevertheless, found and could use the
gateway to intelligent infinity. This is true at all densities in our octave. We
cannot speak for those above us, as you would say, in the next quantum or
octave of beingness. This is, however, true of this octave of density. The
beings are harvested because they can see and enjoy the light/love of the
appropriate density. Those who have found this light/love, love/light
without benefit of a desire for service to others nevertheless, by the Law of
Free Will, have the right to the use of that light/love for whatever purpose.
Also, it may be inserted that there are systems of study which enable the
seeker of separation to gain these gateways.

This study is as difficult as the one which we have described to you, but
there are those with the perseverance to pursue the study just as you desire
to pursue the difficult path of seeking to know in order to serve. The
distortion lies in the effect that those who seek to serve the self are seen by
the Law of One as precisely the same as those who seek to serve others, for
are all not one? To serve yourself and to serve others is a dual method of
saying the same thing, if you can understand the essence of the Law of One.

---

16.42
Questioner: Could you define the word density as we have been using it?

Ra: I am Ra. The term density is a, what you call, mathematical one. The
closest analogy is that of music, whereby after seven notes on your western
type of scale, if you will, the eighth note begins a new octave. Within your
great octave of existence which we share with you, there are seven octaves or
densities. Within each density there are seven sub-densities. Within each
sub-density, are seven sub-sub-densities. Within each sub-sub-density, seven
sub-sub-sub-densities and so on infinitely.

For me personally, density is equal to “mode of existence” – each different, with different qualities / possibilities.

I have this irrational, strong attraction to idea / concept of telekinesis. I guess such phenomenon is possible within fourth density. However I keep wondering if it’s possible in/within third density as well (?)


All I have Best in me for You

[AnthroHeart]

Different densities are totally different experiences. I believe Ra said something along those lines that 4th density is emphatically different from 3rd.