Experiments show that it consciousness that causes probability collapse.

[anagogy]

This is a lecture by Dean Radin (one of my personal heroes) who talks about experiments performed that seem to directly indicate that it is consciousness, *NOT* the measuring apparatus, that causes probability collapse at the quantum level. This is a big deal because reductionist materialists have long tried to dismiss the quantum observer effect as merely an artifact produced by the measuring instrument rather than directly caused by some "extra physical component" i.e. consciousness.

[ada]

So like a human mind affecting an RNG for instance?

[anagogy]

So like a human mind affecting an RNG for instance?

Are you familiar with wave/particle duality? If not, watch a few you-tube videos and you'll begin to get the gist of what Radin is discussing in this lecture. It's really fascinating stuff.

To answer your question there have been experiments that have shown the human mind can and does affect random number generators (many performed by Dean Radin), but this particular lecture is mostly talking about subatomic quanta collapsing from a wave state to a particle state, and attempting to isolate consciousness as a distinct non-local cause from the local physical measuring apparatus in order to find out whether consciousness alone can collapse quanta waves or if it is simply any measurement of the system (whether the measurement was conscious or not). Ordinarily, quantum "weirdness" cancels out at the macroscopic level of reality due to decoherence (basically all the quanta are not operating as one = decoherence). When this happens, reality acts like a bunch of little billiard balls (aka classical physics), but in certain circumstances, such as superconductivty/superfluidty (usually some form of super-cooling) and in Bose-Einstein condensates, they have observed macroscopic level quantum effects (called "coherence" -- quantum levitation for example -- look it up, its real weird and cool). This results in macroscopic "wave effects" and reality does not behave according to classical rules.

I personally believe consciousness can also cause macroscopic level coherence (what we on this forum would probably interpret as "magic" -- a natural function of consciousness from my point of view). I believe that pure undiluted attention results in these microscopic quantum effects gradually spreading out among the local quanta (which we might describe as "the law of attraction") until macroscopic quantum weirdness (coherence) starts to manifest itself. This is just a theory for how this sort of thing may occur. It may not be that at all, its just what it looks like. We, on this forum, have all experienced synchroncity and the occasional weird or magical circumstance. This is just illuminating some of the "nuts and bolts" of how it occurs at a fundamental level.

[Sabou]

This is a lecture by Dean Radin (one of my personal heroes) who talks about experiments performed that seem to directly indicate that it is consciousness, *NOT* the measuring apparatus, that causes probability collapse at the quantum level. This is a big deal because reductionist materialists have long tried to dismiss the quantum observer effect as merely an artifact produced by the measuring instrument rather than directly caused by some "extra physical component" i.e. consciousness.

Hey thanks for sharing the video Anagogy. Maybe I am not fully understanding, but the idea of the quantum observer effect being solely an artifact of the measuring instrument seems strange to me. So is the reductionist model actually ascribing the phenomena to the observation by a measuring apparatus completely independent of a "conscious" entity being aware of the observation, or is there a proposition that the measuring apparatus itself may contain it's own form of consciousness?

[anagogy]

Hey thanks for sharing the video Anagogy. Maybe I am not fully understanding, but the idea of the quantum observer effect being solely an artifact of the measuring instrument seems strange to me. So is the reductionist model actually ascribing the phenomena to the observation by a measuring apparatus completely independent of a "conscious" entity being aware of the observation, or is there a proposition that the measuring apparatus itself may contain it's own form of consciousness?

Essentially, reductionist materialists do not like the possibility that consciousness is the base of reality, thus they favor any explanation that points that consciousness is just an abstraction of matter (when its looking more like its the other way around). That way, their modern conception of the world is correct, and certainty is assured. Of course, the opposite could be said for us proponents of idealism/panpsychism/neutral monism. But at the end of the day, the objective individual will be swayed by whomever has the best evidence (or so, that's the theory), regardless of the metaphysics or ontological base that we prefer. The problem for materialists is that if consciousness is collapsing the wave it means consciousness is special somehow which goes against the current group think and taboo in modern anti-theistic scientism that we are little more than a bunch of meaningless bits of matter drifting aimlessly through space and time.

So yes, many people are of the opinion that the "quantum cut" from wave to particle occurs when it is measured by anything whether it is conscious or not. The question is what constitutes a "measurement" of a system. Awareness? Or does an unconscious camera do it too (now, whether the camera is conscious is another matter altogether)? The reason it's hard to figure out is because you can't look at the data without becoming conscious of it, so you can't really separate the two experimentally (though Dean Radin may have just done it with his psi experiments). Also quantum effects aren't bound by time, so the measurement now could be determining the path it did take through the double slit in the past.

It's possible I don't even have a good grasp of what this all means. Really, I'm just a layman interpreting scientific evidence through the spiritual lens of this incarnate personality. I just find it all interesting and strive to understand it. I don't think anyone FULLY understands quantum physics (myself definitely included).   

[Night Owl]

I found out about those experiments before the LOO and it was part of the reasons the LOO resonated with me because it didn't dismiss the quantum mechanics. Other spiritual material often end up in debates science vs religion. The LOO doesn't dismiss science, it backs it up. For someone not interested in spiritual material I would introduce them to quantum mechanics first to get them to understand conscience and awareness a little bit more before actually entering more metaphysical stuff.

[anagogy]

I found out about those experiments before the LOO and it was part of the reasons the LOO resonated with me because it didn't dismiss the quantum mechanics. Other spiritual material often end up in debates science vs religion. The LOO doesn't dismiss science, it backs it up. For someone not interested in spiritual material I would introduce them to quantum mechanics first to get them to understand conscience and awareness a little bit more before actually entering more metaphysical stuff.

Yes, I think that is true of a lot of people. Though, to be perfectly honest I tend to cringe a little when I see or hear the word "quantum" used in most new age circles because it is usually applied in an incredibly inaccurate way towards a body of material simply to make it sound more scientific and believable that it otherwise would be. But I suppose it can be a gateway for some people into an acceptance of the spiritual world. I agree with you about the Law of One not necessarily being at odds with science. I think that both science and mysticism are rapidly approaching a singularity and that is going to be one of the major thresholds by which our society will take the first steps towards becoming a functioning social memory complex.

[Night Owl]

Yes it seems to me like the LOO is the treshold to this incoming unification of philosophies/spirituality/science. There are others as well, and many take place in the occult. But the LOO seems like the most balanced of them.

[Dekalb_Blues]

Time-lapse depiction of this human-consciousness-directed probability-wave-collapse phenomenon, as captured in the laboratory of Dr. R. Crumb, noted theoretical-hallucinophysicist at the South France Lab (Quantum Mechanics On Duty 24-Hours Daily) of the Albanian Institute for Higher Studies and Lower Expectations, Done Medium-Rare:




The true scientist at work observing-- "In ur eigenstatez, collapsing ur wavefunctionz":


Typical sociobiological application of this advanced q-m technology (with special reference to precious-metallurgical and high-finance-systemry considerations in the context of human evolutionary ethics):

 

References:
http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews...-1-r-crumb
http://observer.com/2015/10/robert-crumb-hates-you/

[ColinT]

Neither quantum proponents nor quantum opponents have yet acknowledged the simple, obvious fact that there are not one, but many coterminous (i.e. existing in the same spatial location) realities. Most do not interact, other than VERY occasionally and by chance. At least two others are intimately bound to our physical reality (the P-realm), these being the A-realm and the B-realm. The former is the more or less the "Psychic" or "Astral" as presently understood, but including mental phenomena, and it is temporal - that it exists within time, as does the P-realm. The latter is the spiritual or Brahmanic realm; being atemporal - that is, outside time - it is difficult of comprehension, even more so of explanation.

Atoms are not merely physical entities, but psychophysical: they serve as a "bridge" between the P and A realms. This is the reason for "quantum phenomena". The "units" (i.e. quanta) of each realm are different, so every transition between them results in apparently anomalous phenomena. Its like trying to convert inches into millimetres using integers: there's always a "remainder".

If you'd like to experiment with the reality of this, learn to hold your consciousness between waking (P-realm) and sleep (A-realm). You'll quickly discover that there's no direct correlation - only approximations that must be interpreted, and grow inaccurate as time passes.

[Patrick]

That's really interesting !

Thanks for sharing