how can we help someone on their spiritual path?

[zenmaster]

We experience for ourselves. We owe ourselves nothing. There is no collateral. Statements of the contrary are illusions and products of human religion.

yes, although there is a price to pay. You do not transcend that price because it is our obligation here.

[Melissa]

We experience for ourselves. We owe ourselves nothing. There is no collateral. Statements of the contrary are illusions and products of human religion.

yes, although there is a price to pay. You do not transcend that price because it is our obligation here.

Meaning?

[zenmaster]

We experience for ourselves. We owe ourselves nothing. There is no collateral. Statements of the contrary are illusions and products of human religion.

yes, although there is a price to pay. You do not transcend that price because it is our obligation here.

Meaning?

Meaning there is a law of responsibility which we must obey. Sort of the purpose of the incarnation. We can vaguely apprehend some limited concept of oneness. Some may identify with it as if it were a way in and of itself. Sorry, the foolproof system we have here requires balancing work - back to chopping wood and carrying water. And to Adonai - it's called a "metaphor".

[Jeremy]

Icaro brought up this point in another thread:

Forgetting the concepts of evil and terrible acts, in the above a negative person is described as someone who feels others need their guidance and wisdom. The majority of so-called positive spiritual types and your non-spiritual adepts fall into this category. Enlightened people absolutely love to correct others and wake them up in an attempt create order. So simply put, someone who takes catalyst and attempts to control it or guide it is self-serving.

and this is what Ra offers in response to one of Don's questions:

17.2 Questioner: Is it possible to help an entity to reach fourth-density level in these last days?

Ra: I am Ra.

It is impossible to help another being directly.

It is only possible to make catalyst available in whatever form, the most important being the radiation of realization of oneness with the Creator from the self, less important being information such as we share with you.

this is being the 'example of unity' so that others see what such a light and such a love is. Such a presence is inspiring in itself.

and the passage (with some interim material) ends with:

"We cannot offer shortcuts to enlightenment. Enlightenment is of the moment, is an opening to intelligent infinity. It can only be accomplished by the self, for the self.

Another self cannot teach/learn enlightenment, but only teach/learn information, inspiration, or a sharing of love, of mystery, of the unknown that makes the other-self reach out and begin the seeking process that ends in a moment, but who can know when an entity will open the gate to the present?"

so what do we do here on the forums? we share information, we share inspiration, we share a love of the mystery.

but what we can't do is learn for someone else, to absolve the karma that is theirs.

namaste

edited for new thread

[Crysis]

...
The hardest part of it is to rise above the suffering caused by ignorance. But once again, you occupy your mind by focusing on yourself instead of succumbing to the sadness, and in this way create the future of peace and love everyone wants. It takes a lot of discipline and courage. But the intrepid explorers at the cutting edge of progress must always have those qualities.
...

This is what drags me back to the pit on dayly basis. The sheer pain and ignorance around me follows me on every step of my life. And I can't help it. Wherever I go they find me. I don't mind it, but they never change. And no, they never ask.
You are right about rising, and as time goes, I find it most challenging task of all.

[Ashim]

...
The hardest part of it is to rise above the suffering caused by ignorance. But once again, you occupy your mind by focusing on yourself instead of succumbing to the sadness, and in this way create the future of peace and love everyone wants. It takes a lot of discipline and courage. But the intrepid explorers at the cutting edge of progress must always have those qualities.
...

This is what drags me back to the pit on dayly basis. The sheer pain and ignorance around me follows me on every step of my life. And I can't help it. Wherever I go they find me. I don't mind it, but they never change. And no, they never ask.
You are right about rising, and as time goes, I find it most challenging task of all.

The 'people' we observe as ignorant and stubborn to change are just that - personas, not the souls that they truly are. Ok, their actions and attitutes may not please us but they are not their 'behaivour'.
Every soul incarnate at the moment displayed great bravery by coming here. Remember they have already gone through a period of time/space healing in order to recalibrate their repective missions that are playing out right now.
When I catch myself being critical of others I just remind myself where I was in my spiritual development a few years ago.
Just because we do not observe the rapid change we would like to see in others does not mean they will not change or grow.
The things we dissaprove of in others are just aspects of ourselves that we care not to integrate.
I know it can be difficult to see the benefit of pain and ignorance but there is one if you look carefully.

[Diana]

When I catch myself being critical of others I just remind myself where I was in my spiritual development a few years ago.
Just because we do not observe the rapid change we would like to see in others does not mean they will not change or grow.
The things we dissaprove of in others are just aspects of ourselves that we care not to integrate.
I know it can be difficult to see the benefit of pain and ignorance but there is one if you look carefully.

This is what I do as well. I look to myself when another's actions bother me. I can always find my own less-than-evolved actions even a week ago and I am able to gain perspective and feel forgiveness. And certainly, whatever the "other" is doing, if I look at myself closely enough, I will find similar hurtful things I have said or done when I was younger and not as vigilant about my intentions.

I will say however, that it is still difficult for me to see the benefit of some actions outside of the individual's learning. There is a whole ecosystem beyond humans. Within the context of human interaction, I can view it all with calmness. It's when I see what humans do to the planet and wildlife that is my greatest challenge.

[AnthroHeart]

I tend to examine my emotional responses to my mother. When she's upset her cursing makes it sound like she's got tourette's syndrome. This gets to me, especially when she says the God D*** word. I take offense to that word in particular, because of my love of Creator. I don't like "his" name being used in vain. But I still am somewhat stuck on God being a he, rather than Source. Source is Creator. And we're returning to Source. It's a journey that is timeless.

Because of how I view my mom's actions at those times, I struggle to be of service to her. She has a mechanical wheelchair that is battery powered. Some days she doesn't feel well when we go out, and I have to load it into my truck, then unload it at the store, then load it back, and take it back into the house when we get home. I don't feel motivated many times to do that, so I use the excuse that I pulled a muscle in my shoulder. That is true, I've done that several times if I move it the wrong way. But if I really wanted to I could carry her wheelchair. It comes apart in 3 pieces to make carrying easier, but the base is still pretty heavy. Feels like 60 pounds or so. When I've carried it for her, that's when I've been of service to her. There was only one time I made the excuse when she was in discomfort, and she used one of the carts at walmart. Those are usually available if we don't bring hers. But she likes hers better because it's easier to operate and it's more comfortable.

[Unbound]

Hey, Gemini Wolf, you might try a "forgiveness mantra" when you are feeling disturbed by your mothers way of expressing her emotions. This is something that buddhist monks will do, or many spiritual individuals, will do when they feel negative energy has been encountered or bad karma has been incurred. In particular I am thinking of Ho'oponopono (Ho oh po-no po-no) which is a Hawaiian word which is meant to expres four things, and this can be done towards yourself or any individual or being throughout time and is a great way to release negativity in the self.

You say, Ho'oponopono and direct these words towards yourself or others:

Thank you.
I'm sorry.
Please forgive me.
I love you.

This can help you to resolve issues within yourself and to forgive yourself if you feel you have been focused in your ego or to apologize to yourself if you feel you have been negative or taking on other people's negativity. It can also help you to deal with the negativity of others by directing it at yourself to forgive yourself for the way you are affected or to forgive them for, in most cases, unintentionally influencing your emotions. It is a profound way to make peace, I have found.

[Wai]

Hey, Gemini Wolf, you might try a "forgiveness mantra" when you are feeling disturbed by your mothers way of expressing her emotions. This is something that buddhist monks will do, or many spiritual individuals, will do when they feel negative energy has been encountered or bad karma has been incurred.

May I suggest the Tibetan Buddhism practice of Tonglen. It's quite simple and takes little time to do. I have done this with good results for many people who needed help in relieving physical and emotional pain.

http://www.naljorprisondharmaservice.org...onglen.htm

http://www.shambhala.org/teachers/pema/tonglen1.php

[Diana]

I tend to examine my emotional responses to my mother. When she's upset her cursing makes it sound like she's got tourette's syndrome. This gets to me, especially when she says the God D*** word. I take offense to that word in particular, because of my love of Creator. I don't like "his" name being used in vain. But I still am somewhat stuck on God being a he, rather than Source. Source is Creator. And we're returning to Source. It's a journey that is timeless.

Because of how I view my mom's actions at those times, I struggle to be of service to her. She has a mechanical wheelchair that is battery powered. Some days she doesn't feel well when we go out, and I have to load it into my truck, then unload it at the store, then load it back, and take it back into the house when we get home. I don't feel motivated many times to do that, so I use the excuse that I pulled a muscle in my shoulder. That is true, I've done that several times if I move it the wrong way. But if I really wanted to I could carry her wheelchair. It comes apart in 3 pieces to make carrying easier, but the base is still pretty heavy. Feels like 60 pounds or so. When I've carried it for her, that's when I've been of service to her. There was only one time I made the excuse when she was in discomfort, and she used one of the carts at walmart. Those are usually available if we don't bring hers. But she likes hers better because it's easier to operate and it's more comfortable.

I feel for you in this situation.

I have a mother who has had strokes, and cannot see well from optic nerve strokes. She is still ambulatory but needs assistance to do everything. Recently, she moved in with a younger sister which alleviated much of what I (and another sister) was dealing with.

I struggled much with this issue. If it has any value for you, here are the things I concluded:

1. This particular situation with a family member is more difficult in being of service, as it is enmeshed with a history of family dynamics. So cut yourself some slack. There are more feelings at play, some subconscious and consisting of old tapes, that complicate the situation.

2. There is another dimension to being of service, and that is setting healthy boundaries (being of service to yourself). Let me explain: If you are being of service and resenting it (even subconsciously, and it's totally understandable), then the service is also outputting negativity. What helped me was shifting the pattern to one of having the starting point include my own best good. I had to think about how much I could give in terms of being of service to my mother, while maintaining my own life. Then, when I did commit to a shopping day (I so understand the enormity of such an ordeal), I could do it with a free mind. I would just align with the service because I agreed to it, and it flowed from my consideration of myself as well. Even so, I had to continually bring myself back to point because of the early family patterns.

So, to be at peace with this situation, you might try thinking about setting your boundaries in an unemotional way, perhaps after getting away from home for a while, walking in nature and not in the house where the the unresolved feelings play out.

[Unbound]

Hey, Gemini Wolf, you might try a "forgiveness mantra" when you are feeling disturbed by your mothers way of expressing her emotions. This is something that buddhist monks will do, or many spiritual individuals, will do when they feel negative energy has been encountered or bad karma has been incurred.

May I suggest the Tibetan Buddhism practice of Tonglen. It's quite simple and takes little time to do. I have done this with good results for many people who needed help in relieving physical and emotional pain.

http://www.naljorprisondharmaservice.org...onglen.htm

http://www.shambhala.org/teachers/pema/tonglen1.php

Interesting, I have been doing this practice for years without being aware. I have been finding a lot of my natural techniques seem to be paralleled in buddhist thought.

[native]

Whoops..I didn't realize I was a part of this thread until just now!

plenum, you mention a good excerpt. Notice that they specifically say radiating realization of oneness provides catalyst to the other. How does internal realization provide catalyst? My thoughts are that this has to do with the indigo center, as it is the center that deals with "universal energies" (49.6). It was also mentioned that if one is illuminated, all are, so there are transformations going on that we aren't aware of.

Based on everything Ra says about healing, it seems the role of a healer involves seeing yourself in the other, which is to radiate realization of oneness. A healer seems to be someone who is channeling balanced energy, for the overall benefit of the collective. So someone who heals, is someone who is actively attempting to see themselves in all situations. It seems that one is actually meant to be a student more than anything, and teaching when it seems appropriate. I've noticed with personal catalyst that when I react with the attitude that this person is wrong and needs to understand my opinion (dependent upon my wisdom/guidance), nothing progresses. It wasn't until I saw my mirror that things changed.

"Love/light is the enabler, the power, the energy giver." To me, it seems that if you are able to carry catalyst up to the indigo center, the center of unity where you see yourself, you radiate a co-creative energy that functions as a potential for the other. Love/light represents potential unified understanding, so if you do your part and see the unity in a situation, you passively radiate potential learning. It's an offering, as if you've paved a channel for energy to flow, but they have to make the connection. "Firstly, the energy which is used is brought into the field complex of the healer by the outstretched hand used in a polarized sense." Catalyst might come into being in their life where they are able to learn whatever is necessary for them, rather than you attempting to steer them with your wisdom. So when I would see my mirror, the other person was more effective at attaining insights. And as I've mentioned in other threads, the irony is that you can only get past the urge of constantly trying to guide by plowing right into catalyst with honesty, which is always an attempt to control a situation. Say whatever it is you're thinking, don't hold things in, be an ass. The more you release, process, and balance, the less things in general start bothering you. Then you're no longer just reacting to catalyst with emotion, but in a position to be more attentive, patient, and tolerant. Diana's response in post #37 is a good one.

My main point in relation to the original post, was that spiritually "enlightened" people or progressive types are very opinionated people. They spend a lot of time criticizing and guiding people in other words, rather than attempting to see themselves. You see a lot of people refer to those that are asleep. I don't know about you, but I wasn't born awake, so I'm not going to criticize when another chooses to open their eyes, if them opening their eyes is even the point. The people on Mars ruined their atmosphere, Maldek blew their planet up, Atlantis had a war, the Mayans failed, and so did the Egyptians. Advanced understanding is clearly a delicate thing, that has so far failed in relation to this planet's collective history. Don was understandably distracted by the Orion vs. Confederation, evil/good allegory. I think contemplating what it means to be negative is important as I don't think we really get it, because I think viewing things in terms of good vs. evil misses the point entirely.

It's said that those who are negatively harvestable at this time are attempting to share their love of self. Do you wish for another's happiness, or do you feel they need your wisdom for their own good? Thinking in terms of radiance and absorbance helps for me. Am I radiating light, or am I absorbing it? Am I using what I'm encountering to see myself, or am I continuing to experience it as something separate from me? I think the point of enlightenment is learning to get to a point where you can let others be themselves. Sure, progressing socially and attaining harmony requires that others listen to each other, otherwise there would be no agreed upon values and like-mind, with people doing what they want always. But I think a big part of holding onto positivity is learning how to release control.

[Unbound]

I have found quite effective in efficient energy transfer to feel that the individual is a complete, perfectly balanced, in the natural state, being. You can also visualize them as themselves and their energy body sort of overlapped and by holding the intention WATCH, and only if guided use willpower, the patterns of the body and visualize the intelligent energy naturally flowing in to, through, around and permeating the individual complex, thus clearing where there needs clearing, building where there needs building and recycling and organizing of circulations.

[BrownEye]

The people on Mars ruined their atmosphere, Maldek blew their planet up, Atlantis had a war, the Mayans failed, and so did the Egyptians. Advanced understanding is clearly a delicate thing, that has so far failed in relation to this planet's collective history.

I like this LoL!

---

It's said that those who are negatively harvestable at this time are attempting to share their love of self.

I found a good example of a 'visible' STS polarization is Bill Gates. It should give a clue as to the majority being unpolarized with a large portion being STO polarized. The population of actual STS is very small and not as visible as ol' Bill. I then had to consider how 'control' fits in to this picture, and sort of understand.

It has been near impossible me to find an 'identifiable' STS.

[native]

I have found quite effective in efficient energy transfer to feel that the individual is a complete, perfectly balanced, in the natural state, being. You can also visualize them as themselves and their energy body sort of overlapped and by holding the intention WATCH, and only if guided use willpower, the patterns of the body and visualize the intelligent energy naturally flowing in to, through, around and permeating the individual complex, thus clearing where there needs clearing, building where there needs building and recycling and organizing of circulations.

It makes sense. "This description may be seen to be both unbalanced and in perfect balance. The latter understanding is extremely helpful in dealing with other-selves. The ability to feel blockages is useful only to the healer. There is not properly a tiny fraction of judgment when viewing a balance in colors."

---

I like this LoL!

We could also add that on harmonious Venus, a holy war was started after two wanderers arrived to instill their great wisdom. Apparently if you're going to teach, there's a great responsibility to convey unity in a balanced manner and integrate it properly, otherwise you create a condition where the unflinchingly fearless enlightened are out to align the so called sleepers.

I'm not sure we can appreciate the symbolic nature of reality. I've had enough experiences to know that consciousness and form is always interacting in the most novel of ways. Take for example how the group was having communication issues between themselves, which was causing all sorts of problems, and a dropped microphone causes an injury:

"103.16 In this state the object was dropped upon the instrument which you call the tie-pin microphone. The unexpected contact caused injury of the chest muscles and we would advise some care depending from this working to avoid stress so that this injury may heal. There is a metaphysical component to this injury and, therefore, we wished to be quite sure that all portions of the environment were cleansed."

In 103.8, Carla's sacrifice of nice clothing was described as a small but symbolically great martyrdom. If martyrdom simply represents death of the self, it begs the question as to what was really going on on Venus when the wanderers were "slaughtering" others. Was there any real killing, or were they just destroying/dominating the personalities of others in an effort to teach?

I found a good example of a 'visible' STS polarization is Bill Gates. It should give a clue as to the majority being unpolarized with a large portion being STO polarized. The population of actual STS is very small and not as visible as ol' Bill. I then had to consider how 'control' fits in to this picture, and sort of understand.

It has been near impossible me to find an 'identifiable' STS.

What is it that makes you feel that way about him?

[BrownEye]

Take for example how the group was having communication issues between themselves, which was causing all sorts of problems, and a dropped microphone causes an injury:

"In this state the object was dropped upon the instrument which you call the tie-pin microphone. The unexpected contact caused injury of the chest muscles and we would advise some care depending from this working to avoid stress so that this injury may heal. There is a metaphysical component to this injury and, therefore, we wished to be quite sure that all portions of the environment were cleansed."

In a trance state any touching of the body can be quite a shock. Dropping something on the chest of a person in trance will cause such a quick tensing of the muscles that there will be a bit of negative energy in that area.

What is it that makes you feel that way about him?

I didn't feel that way about him. I was busy doing something and a bird whispered in my ear to ask about him. I expected the opposite. Although I then considered the control aspect, and it is definitely there. Control not over just a large part of web based communications and basic productivity, but also his influence on population control.

[native]

In a trance state any touching of the body can be quite a shock. Dropping something on the chest of a person in trance will cause such a quick tensing of the muscles that there will be a bit of negative energy in that area.

Yeah, there is the metaphysical component too though which I think is interesting..the form of the external conveying a message.

I didn't feel that way about him. I was busy doing something and a bird whispered in my ear to ask about him. I expected the opposite. Although I then considered the control aspect, and it is definitely there. Control not over just a large part of web based communications and basic productivity, but also his influence on population control.

You never know..I can see that but I prefer to view those things as unknowns, as I'm not sure what kind of energy it's putting out.