LoO Jesus & non-canonical gospels

[3DMonkey]

Hi, 3, thanks for the post. But I think I did not understand the last sentence well. May be it simple logic, but I was not able to follow it. Quite a nice post in terms of depth, I must say.

The last sentence was basically a disclaimer. I meant that your own realizations of "layers of conscious" is what's important, and that is a step in the realization that our idea of conscious is a minimal one in understanding....understanding all of this.

[Spectrum]

Thanks for the conversation. I enjoy it a lot. One teeny correction, though: back in post 34, Spectrum mentions Judas' denying JC three times. I thought that was another of the group, perhaps Peter. I think he denied Jesus three times out of simple fear--"Moi? I know nothing! I can't help you there."

Oh is it? Yeah I spoke from memory...it's been a while! Thanks.

[hogey11]

@Spectrum

Judas wanted Jesus to use his ability to access intelligent infinity for STS purposes, and Jesus wasn't so inclined. What is important to keep in mind here, is that Judas, like most everybody else in those days, was deceived by thousands of years of Orion teachings (Yahweh), from the old testament.

That is what Ra explains. I can see this explanation fitting either option tho.

If Jesus had asked Judas expressly to betray him, Judas may have assumed that Jesus planned on some power move. It is made clear several times throughout the Bible and NCG (non-canonical gospels) that Jesus' teachings often made no sense to his disciples, and often Jesus would have to just tell them to obey and observe. This could have been one of those times where Judas thought the checkmate was finally to be played, and he was to be a part of it. Instead, he was broken and became a traitor; given only a sack of silver for his trouble.

Additionally, as a tangent to this idea, could Jesus have had a pre-incarnational contract with a powerful Orion entity to bring upon his death when the time had come? or are Orion members void of confederation contracts? If this is so, Jesus may have known that Judas had the greatest weaknesses, and that the Orion entity would almost certainly choose its easiest target for fear of failure. (I just read where you say Judas was probably most susceptible; good call!)

If it is this way, or the way you state it, then I would agree it was a 'foretelling' more than a directive; either way, there was considerable forethought put into the event, it would seem.

I see Judas as an Orion victim, and the fact that he was so close to Jesus, means he would surely have enjoyed '5th' density STS attention, as opposed to 4D STS, due to all the light Jesus generated, and the threat Jesus was to the Orion agenda.

I can agree on this. I guess the question for me then shifts to, as mentioned earlier, was this all part of the 'mission' or was Jesus just that smooth on his feet?

@kycahi

Thanks for the conversation. I enjoy it a lot. One teeny correction, though: back in post 34, Spectrum mentions Judas' denying JC three times. I thought that was another of the group, perhaps Peter. I think he denied Jesus three times out of simple fear--"Moi? I know nothing! I can't help you there."

Peter definitely denied Jesus 3 times before the rooster crowed... I don't remember Judas doing the same tho.

I think the matter being overlooked was Jesus' 'mission'. It may have very well included other entities; i'd assume John the Baptist as one, imo. In the Apocrypha of James, they ask Jesus who to look to for prophecy, as John the Baptist had just been put to death. Jesus responded by saying 'the head has been cut off' and saying no prophecy could be trusted, symbolizing that John seemed to hold a special place or position in Jesus' ministry.

My intuition is leaning towards Jesus recognizing Judas as the weakest link tho....

[Spectrum]

Peter definitely denied Jesus 3 times before the rooster crowed... I don't remember Judas doing the same tho.

No it wasn't Judas, it was my mistake:

Peter declared, “Even if everyone else deserts you, I will never desert you.”

Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, Peter—this very night, before the rooster crows, you will deny three times that you even know me.”

“No!” Peter insisted. “Even if I have to die with you, I will never deny you!” And all the other disciples vowed the same.

could Jesus have had a pre-incarnational contract with a powerful Orion entity to bring upon his death when the time had come?

It's not possible, their goals are in direct opposition, what benefits one, cannot benefit the other. Everything about Jesus was a threat to Orion. Light and dark don't work together, not ever.

[alanea]

I am enjoying this conversation about Jesus as I certainly have not figured out what He means yet. Once I had a dream that I fail to truly understand. I was going through a very hard and painful time emotionally when I dreamed that Jesus was showing me the scars on his hands and he was telling me, "They are your scars." I still don't GET it. Really. Why are my scars on his hands?

[Confused]

could Jesus have had a pre-incarnational contract with a powerful Orion entity to bring upon his death when the time had come?

I personally think it is a long-shot to strongly assume that Jesus had an inexorable pre-incarnational arrangement to die on the cross. The following is an LOO extract from 75.14 -

When the entity Jehoshuah decided to return to the location called Jerusalem for the holy days of its people it turned from work mixing love and wisdom and embraced martyrdom which is the work of love without wisdom.

That for me indicates that Jesus was constantly refining his choices through out that incarnation with his freewill. He seemed to be working with love and wisdom. For instance, we read from Biblical accounts that he cleverly evaded the question of taxes with the witty "render to god what is god's and render to Caesar what is Caesar's" statement. I think there arose a situation wherein he either had to use his spiritual powers for great temporal gains (like political power) or die for standing for his principles. There is potentially a glimpse of that from session 17 -

17.16 Questioner: When Jesus of Nazareth incarnated was there an attempt by the Orion group to discredit him in some way?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

17.17 Questioner: Can you tell me what the Orion group did in order to try to cause his downfall?

Ra: I am Ra. We may describe in general what occurred. The technique was that of building upon other negatively oriented information. This information had been given by the one whom your peoples called “Yahweh.” This information involved many strictures upon behavior and promised power of the third-density, service-to-self nature. These two types of distortions were impressed upon those already oriented to think these thought-forms.

This eventually led to many challenges of the entity known as Jesus. It eventually led to one, sound vibration complex “Judas,” as you call this entity, who believed that it was doing the appropriate thing in bringing about or forcing upon the one you call Jesus the necessity for bringing in the third-density planetary power distortion of third-density rule over others.

This entity, Judas, felt that, if pushed into a corner, the entity you call Jesus would then be able to see the wisdom of using the power of intelligent infinity in order to rule others. The one you call Judas was mistaken in this estimation of the reaction of the entity, Jesus, whose teach/learning was not oriented towards this distortion. This resulted in the destruction of the bodily complex of the one known as Jesus.

I think Judas probably worked with a band of politically minded/connected religious orthodoxy folks to conspire into putting Jesus in a position of either using his spiritual powers for earthly power or die for refusing to do so. I need to note that Ra said they would only 'describe in general', which means may be they did not want us to know exactly what transpired. So I can only guesstimate with what is given.

Thus, when Jesus entered Jerusalem, he was faced with two options, I guess. From the LOO 75.14 -

There were two factions present to greet Jehoshuah, firstly, a small group of those which hoped for an earthly king. However, Jehoshuah rode upon an ass stating by its very demeanor that it was no earthly king and wished no fight with Roman or Sadducee.

The greater number were those which had been instructed by rabbi and elder to make jest of this entity, for those of the hierarchy feared this entity who seemed to be one of them, giving respect to their laws and then, in their eyes, betraying those time-honored laws and taking the people with it.

Jesus was a threat to the orthodox religious hierarchy as well, which of course supported the political structure. This trend is visible in today's world too. I guess Jesus was given an ultimatum in the sense that either he stops being a radical and joins the religious-political complex and be rewarded with earthly power; or be put to death for his principles through most gruesome torture. May be Judas thought that Jesus would surrender to the powerful religious-political hierarchy in fear of death and out of dread for the physical pain arising from vile torture before that.

We know what Jesus chose.

If I had been in the position of Jesus, I would have chosen the other option by rationalizing to myself that I would be able to serve people better through political power. Of course, that is a self-deceptive ploy in many ways; but I cannot emulate the example of Jesus in being put to death through horrendous torture on the cross for sacred spiritual values.

All my subjective opinions and thoughts.

[3DMonkey]

That's beautiful, alanea. I have a feeling you know the answer. Your spirit knows the answer. Did you heal soon after the dream? Where his words helpful? You may find an answer that can be expressed in words, but you don't need to. I thought I could try to tell you what I thought it meant, but I bet it wouldn't express your own awareness of its meaning.

[alanea]

I wish you would tell me what you thought. I seem to be stuck with this one. It took me years to heal, I don't even know if I AM healed yet. It did comfort me to know that Jesus was with me in my pain. He came here to die for us, to go through the pain with us, I don't know?

[3DMonkey]

The words seem too close to something, like the answer is on the tip of my tongue. It seems like I've found the answer before... It will come to me...

[hogey11]

I am enjoying this conversation about Jesus as I certainly have not figured out what He means yet. Once I had a dream that I fail to truly understand. I was going through a very hard and painful time emotionally when I dreamed that Jesus was showing me the scars on his hands and he was telling me, "They are your scars." I still don't GET it. Really. Why are my scars on his hands?

For myself, this is LOO Jesus in a nutshell. It's easter, and I feel like its in the right thread for a random Jesus rant, so here we go!

(all my opinion, I hope none take offense):

His ministry was simply to love above all else. He came to prepare us for the 4th density, being the density of love and understanding, as it was relatively close to harvest. In his life, he taught as much as he could to subvert current day Judaism until pressure had gotten too great, and then ante'd up with the biggest poker chip a human soul can produce: his life.

What's the point? Jesus is teaching a hard lesson in the Law of One. This incarnation is just a page in the novel of our souls; it is not to be cherished but brandished instead. In the context of the coming harvest, Jesus is pleading with souls to awaken and stand for truth even in the face of death. For in the third density, the density of confusion behind the veil, what is more terrifying than death? This message was required, in my opinion, due to the strength of the Orion/negative influence on the Earth. I think Jesus realized pretty quickly that he would not be able to rule in our governmental systems, and that breaking the system was going to be the only way to polarize positively in the end.

I believe Jesus' resurrection was him returning in his 4D or possibly 5D form. This would explain him appearing/disappearing, his changed features, walking through walls, etc. If this is true, it also has a profound effect on his message. Through death, we ascend. Through truth, we ascend. There is far more than this life, and to life our lives otherwise is to live foolishly. Jesus taught us that by giving his life, and showing us that death has no sting and no ultimate power over us. We too, will rise.


@alanea
As far as your dream, I think maybe Jesus was offering help to you emotionally/spiritually with your burden by reminding you that we are all one and bear each others burdens. Jesus went through it all, so he's a great support if asked to be. I really have no idea tho; i've never interpreted a dream before

I am glad to hear you were comforted tho, and I hope you feel true peace with your grievance one day soon

[kycahi]

I am enjoying this conversation about Jesus as I certainly have not figured out what He means yet. Once I had a dream that I fail to truly understand. I was going through a very hard and painful time emotionally when I dreamed that Jesus was showing me the scars on his hands and he was telling me, "They are your scars." I still don't GET it. Really. Why are my scars on his hands?

IMHO: "My scars are your scars" because we are One.

As Ra said, revealing that his compassion exceeded his wisdom, Jesus decided, like that wonderful replicant in the movie, "Time to die." He must have thought, at that point, that his death was inevitable.

Truly though, throwing lightning bolts around was only one option: he could have just slipped away (poof) and met up with the followers somewhere out of town and kept going with his "ministry." Maybe he was too proud to be thought of as a sneak, or just too weary to keep going in the 3D, and that colored his judgment.

He did, BTW, "fulfill" Old Testament prophecies by going through with the hanging, according to a Sunday School teacher I had decades ago. I don't remember the details.

[spero]

Truly though, throwing lightning bolts around was only one option: he could have just slipped away (poof) and met up with the followers somewhere out of town and kept going with his "ministry." Maybe he was too proud to be thought of as a sneak, or just too weary to keep going in the 3D, and that colored his judgment.

true but it would have watered down what he came here to do...

84.4 Questioner: The instrument asked the following question: Ra has implied that the instrument is on the path of martyrdom, but since we all die are we not all martyred to something, and when, if ever, does martyrdom partake of wisdom?

Ra: I am Ra. This is a thoughtful query. Let us use as exemplar the one known as Jehoshua. This entity incarnated with the plan of martyrdom. There is no wisdom in this plan but rather understanding and compassion extended to its fullest perfection. The one known as Jehoshua would have been less than fully understanding of its course had it chosen to follow its will at any space/time during its teachings. Several times, as you call this measure, this entity had the possibility of moving towards the martyr’s place which was, for that martyr, Jerusalem. Yet in meditation this entity stated, time and again, “It is not yet the hour.” The entity could also have, when the hour came, walked another path. Its incarnation would then have been prolonged but the path for which it incarnated somewhat confused. Thusly, one may observe the greatest amount of understanding, of which this entity was indeed capable, taking place as the entity in meditation felt and knew that the hour had come for that to be fulfilled which was its incarnation.

It is indeed so that all mind/body/spirit complexes shall die to the third-density illusion; that is, that each yellow-ray physical-complex body shall cease to be viable. It is a misnomer to, for this reason alone, call each mind/body/spirit complex a martyr, for this term is reserved for those who lay down their lives for the service they may provide to others. We may encourage meditation upon the functions of the will.

here's some stuff from Quo about Jesus if anyones curious.
http://www.llresearch.org/newsletters/is...987_4.aspx

The concept of the Christ was this: that intelligent infinity, as experienced by the Logos and with the bias of the Logos, would enter a third-density experience, not erasing the one known as Jesus’ personality or being, but coming into the closest possible harmony with that being. There needed to be one who wished to sacrifice an incarnation to the ever-increasing pleasure and agony of the Creator, experiencing what this instrument would call the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, for it is the nature of the Christ and the nature of third density that the two, perceiving each other, should react-the third density with a lack of understanding and the Christ with wonder, joy and sacrifice. Such is the sorrow of your illusion and the joy of sensation and communion.

In the end, Jesus the man became so able to bear both joy and agony that this entity stopped experiencing the Creator and for long periods of time became the Creator experiencing third density. Such is the perfect channeling of love. The achievement of the perfect channeling was the mystery of union between Creator and illusion.

After this bonding, the burden of channeling rather rapidly began to tire the master teacher, Jesus. At the time of the crucifixion, as this instrument calls it, there were almost no tears left. There were no bones unbroken, there was no companionship that had not been betrayed in one form or another. Nevertheless, Jesus the Christ lived well and did not stop the channeling until the breath left the physical vehicle. We witness to this Christ with thanksgiving and joy, not suggesting that any worship or not worship, but celebrating the Creator poured into a channel who could share in full the nature of the Logos, the nature of the Creator, the powerful, terrible, nature of Love.

[hogey11]

The concept of the Christ was this: that intelligent infinity, as experienced by the Logos and with the bias of the Logos, would enter a third-density experience, not erasing the one known as Jesus’ personality or being, but coming into the closest possible harmony with that being. There needed to be one who wished to sacrifice an incarnation to the ever-increasing pleasure and agony of the Creator, experiencing what this instrument would call the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, for it is the nature of the Christ and the nature of third density that the two, perceiving each other, should react-the third density with a lack of understanding and the Christ with wonder, joy and sacrifice. Such is the sorrow of your illusion and the joy of sensation and communion.

In the end, Jesus the man became so able to bear both joy and agony that this entity stopped experiencing the Creator and for long periods of time became the Creator experiencing third density. Such is the perfect channeling of love. The achievement of the perfect channeling was the mystery of union between Creator and illusion.

After this bonding, the burden of channeling rather rapidly began to tire the master teacher, Jesus. At the time of the crucifixion, as this instrument calls it, there were almost no tears left. There were no bones unbroken, there was no companionship that had not been betrayed in one form or another. Nevertheless, Jesus the Christ lived well and did not stop the channeling until the breath left the physical vehicle. We witness to this Christ with thanksgiving and joy, not suggesting that any worship or not worship, but celebrating the Creator poured into a channel who could share in full the nature of the Logos, the nature of the Creator, the powerful, terrible, nature of Love.

Can I just copy-paste this over my crappy interpretation above???!?

Wow! Thanks for this spero; that was extremely enlightening!

A lot makes a lot more sense now. Awesome.

[Spectrum]

Wow! Thanks for this spero; that was extremely enlightening!

A lot makes a lot more sense now. Awesome.

Yeah I agree...wow.

[michaelangelo]

Jesus was learning before he even came to the earth to dwell in the flesh.
Jehovah or the God of the old testament as he is often described is and was
the premortal name of the man who was to be later known as Jesus Christ.
he was the one that spoke to Moses and Abraham but was in a spiritual state before his physical exsistance on the earth. Jehovah under the direction of the Father and with the help from many of us that chose to be born onto an earth, were instrumental in its creation. So he was able to be taught by both his heavenly parents or the parents of his spirit and his earthly parents the parents of his flesh.

---

There was a plan put forth often described today as the plan of salvation, and the idea of this was that we would have the opportunity to become like our heavenly father and yes dare i say it our heavenly mother, that would require us to come to an earth such as this and to be tested to see if we would follow this plan. Lucifer or Satan was at this planning meeting but wanted to take the glory of the father for himself and so said basically that with my plan not one soul would be lost and they will all pass the test so to speak, but in exchange for this i wish to have all of the glory and to achieve this i will take away there free agency or the ability to choose for themselves. Gods plan was unknown to Satan at the time that we would have the choice to choose between good and evil and he new that he would loose some of his children by doing this but he also new that to be truly tested we would need to choose for ourselves. Satan and a third of his followers or in other words the spirits he was able to influence in the heavens, were cast out to roam the earth and will not receive a physical body as there punishment.
With regards to Adam and eve or our first parents if eve had not been persuaded to follow Satan's promptings then our first parents would have remained in a state of incense not knowing good from evil and never being able to exercise free agency to its fullest extent. So unknowingly and attempting to disrupt Gods plan Satan actually helped to fulfill it by moving Adam and Eve from a Immortal Innocent state to a Mortal state knowing good from evil and having the free agency to choose. As part of this plan God knowing that many would fall short of his expectations provided a redeemer Jesus Christ who actually chose to fulfill this role before the earth was even created. As the mediator between us and our heavenly father he took upon himself all the sins of the world, So that we could have the opportunity to repent from our wrong doings and change. But as mercy cannot rob justice a penalty had to be paid and Jesus Christ chose to pay this penalty for all who have ever lived all who do live and all that are still yet to live upon this earth. And through this sacrifice or Atonement, we can repent and have the opportunity to take the test again.

The concept of the Christ was this: that intelligent infinity, as experienced by the Logos and with the bias of the Logos, would enter a third-density experience, not erasing the one known as Jesus’ personality or being, but coming into the closest possible harmony with that being. There needed to be one who wished to sacrifice an incarnation to the ever-increasing pleasure and agony of the Creator, experiencing what this instrument would call the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, for it is the nature of the Christ and the nature of third density that the two, perceiving each other, should react-the third density with a lack of understanding and the Christ with wonder, joy and sacrifice. Such is the sorrow of your illusion and the joy of sensation and communion.

In the end, Jesus the man became so able to bear both joy and agony that this entity stopped experiencing the Creator and for long periods of time became the Creator experiencing third density. Such is the perfect channeling of love. The achievement of the perfect channeling was the mystery of union between Creator and illusion.

After this bonding, the burden of channeling rather rapidly began to tire the master teacher, Jesus. At the time of the crucifixion, as this instrument calls it, there were almost no tears left. There were no bones unbroken, there was no companionship that had not been betrayed in one form or another. Nevertheless, Jesus the Christ lived well and did not stop the channeling until the breath left the physical vehicle. We witness to this Christ with thanksgiving and joy, not suggesting that any worship or not worship, but celebrating the Creator poured into a channel who could share in full the nature of the Logos, the nature of the Creator, the powerful, terrible, nature of Love.

Can I just copy-paste this over my crappy interpretation above???!?

Wow! Thanks for this spero; that was extremely enlightening!

A lot makes a lot more sense now. Awesome.

---

It may well mean that Jesus has taken upon himself all of the pain and suffering of this world and that we need not despair as the reason he has taken upon himself our burdens is so that we can learn to let him lift them from our shoulders and be free of them forever. So our pain and suffering is his scars and sacrifice.

I am enjoying this conversation about Jesus as I certainly have not figured out what He means yet. Once I had a dream that I fail to truly understand. I was going through a very hard and painful time emotionally when I dreamed that Jesus was showing me the scars on his hands and he was telling me, "They are your scars." I still don't GET it. Really. Why are my scars on his hands?

IMHO: "My scars are your scars" because we are One.

As Ra said, revealing that his compassion exceeded his wisdom, Jesus decided, like that wonderful replicant in the movie, "Time to die." He must have thought, at that point, that his death was inevitable.

Truly though, throwing lightning bolts around was only one option: he could have just slipped away (poof) and met up with the followers somewhere out of town and kept going with his "ministry." Maybe he was too proud to be thought of as a sneak, or just too weary to keep going in the 3D, and that colored his judgment.

He did, By the way, "fulfill" Old Testament prophecies by going through with the hanging, according to a Sunday School teacher I had decades ago. I don't remember the details.

[Aureus]

About the miracles:exclamation:

The remaining words of this man truly resonates with the LOO, dispite their age and times re-written.

What I can't seem to wrap my head around is the miracles. It seemed he could communicate directly(and make requests) to lower entities in the favour of his fellow men.

That seems really advanced and must require a mastering of certain energy vortexes, and balance therein for proper use.

I mean "Water into Wine" isn't very defined. Did he put grapes in a bowl of water and let it sit for a few weeks? Or did he speed up the process of the yeast consuming sugar (like alchemy)?

Or was it simply conjuring, like visualization -"Ask and you shall recieve"?

I hope I am not the only one with these questions

Love&Light Bro's and Sis'