The mysterious nature of time

[native]

I've begun reading Jung and it becomes more clear to me that he was certainly a mystic of his time and in his field. In the video below, Alan talks about Jung and what he wrote in regards to a doctor's relationship to his patient, and how the doctor must first accept the evil within himself if he truly wants to help and understand his patient.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Top_n68MjEM

[Confused]

I've begun reading Jung and it becomes more clear to me that he was certainly a mystic of his time and in his field. In the video below, Alan talks about Jung and what he wrote in regards to a doctor's relationship to his patient, and how the doctor must first accept the evil within himself if he truly wants to help and understand his patient.

Another excellent AW video. Thank you, Icaro. If I know this right, I think it was Jung who introduced the notion of archetypes into modern Psychology.

Even in this video, AW's commentary on Jung is so typical of Ra's words in the LOO. Accepting the balance of the dark and the light in oneself, to become integrated and then confidently move the steeds of the mind in the journey through this world. They are all coming together. Time is weaving its magic!

[native]

Yes he was the one that applied the archetype concept to psychology as a conscious process worth examining. I had never bothered to read Jung because his ideas are basically Western explanations of Eastern concepts in certain aspects. Having already understood the Eastern concepts I saw no point, but two months ago I read The Undiscovered Self by Jung and realized his insights are quite informative. Like you say, it all goes together.

[Confused]

Having already understood the Eastern concepts I saw no point, but two months ago I read The Undiscovered Self by Jung and realized his insights are quite informative. Like you say, it all goes together.

I am going to check whether a copy of the book, The Undiscovered Self, is available online in PDF format. I will save it to my computer and read as time permits.

The last in the series of AW's "The One as Many" --

[Confused]

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[native]

Yeah it's a quick read.

[Confused]

Yeah it's a quick read.

Is it possible for you to give the essential theme of it? Its core message or key take-away points.

[native]

He speaks about the individual's need to resist mass-minded collective thinking, that society is a collection of individuals and not some vague body. So there is responsibility in understanding your self, the good/evil within, and that the individual needs to participate more in the collective rather than letting it speak for himself. He argues that spirituality,, whatever that may be for the individual, is essential.

[Confused]

He speaks about the individual's need to resist mass-minded collective thinking, that society is a collection of individuals and not some vague body. So there is responsibility in understanding your self, the good/evil within, and that the individual needs to participate more in the collective rather than letting it speak for himself. He argues that spirituality,, whatever that may be for the individual, is essential.

I think in that sense, what 3 said about the age of Aquarius as the age of 'group intelligence', with individual creative capacity linking each others' sub-creations, is quite an interesting point. Thank you for the summary, Icaro.

An interesting article that explores the putative links between the mystery of time and the concept of free will, highlighting a vexing paradox (if there is one) -
Taking Time Out In Science

[native]

I've never been one to get caught up in the technicalities of free will arguments. Do you feel as if you have free will? To me in my direct experience it does. That's a good enough explanation for me! We know that the purpose of the octave is to learn, which comes about through new experience and new creation.

[Confused]

I've never been one to get caught up in the technicalities of free will arguments. Do you feel as if you have free will? To me in my direct experience it does. That's a good enough explanation for me! We know that the purpose of the octave is to learn, which comes about through new experience and new creation.

I am more interested in the scientific aspects of it, doctrines aside. I think the ancients left many clues in their muddled writings, now spread across various cultures. In a sense, the LOO is a retelling of an eternal and self-repeating old myth for an audience of the 'New Age'. I would not at all be surprised if the LOO, as the work we know it as having come through the efforts of Don & Co, becomes a defining text for the generations to follow.

I can already see the initial steps here at b4th. Most of the arguments that members make are profound, to say the least. It is good to be engaged in this dialogue and communication, for it prevents metastasis, in my opinion. Having said that, here is the final part of the 'Return to the Forest' series:

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I think this explains the 'Block Universe' thinking on Time much better

[native]

I think the ancients left many clues in their muddled writings, now spread across various cultures. In a sense, the LOO is a retelling of an eternal and self-repeating old myth for an audience of the 'New Age'.

There certainly is a wealth of information supporting that..especially the ideas of cyclical time, ages, and a return.

[Confused]

Scientists (especially Theoretical Physicists) are now deeply investigating the concept of Free Will through the paradigm of Time. There is a group that feels that Free Will is an illusion (the Eternalists) or the 'Block Universe' adherents, and another theoretical Physics group (Growing Block Universe) that believes that changes can be made in the imperfect 'NOW' to move things to a better 'Future', and that not all is predestined. It is no longer weird. Free will has entered mainstream scientific discourse and is being analysed through the mysterious nature of time. Is the future already there or are we co-creating it? That is no longer the material of channeled literature alone. It has surprisingly been discussed within mainstream Theoretical Physics for over the past 100 years, at least. The new age is quickly dawning.

Presenting a first in a series of Scientific papers that I will be posting here, with respect to Time and Free Will.

Block time: Why many physicists still don’t accept it?

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There certainly is a wealth of information supporting that..especially the ideas of cyclical time, ages, and a return.

Icaro, just wanted to clarify. When I made mention of the LOO as the defining document of a New Age, I did not mean it in any cultist or doctrinaire sense. That is not even possible in the remote. I, however, strongly believe that the LOO will enter mainstream consciousness to a now unimaginable level and percolate down to the masses to a very high degree within the next 20-30 years, given the proliferation of internet and the intermingling of people around the world. One of the positive effects of Globalization!

[native]

I knew what you meant, no worries.

[Confused]

Physics in the Real Universe: Time and Spacetime

[3DMonkey]

Physics in the Real Universe: Time and Spacetime

Looks like they wanna put space/time in a "box". hehehehe, just joking

[3DMonkey]

Physics in the Real Universe: Time and Spacetime

My favorite parts:

.....

However the constraints on what future can emerge at a given here-now are not pointwise
constraints but (in relation to any local coordinates) constraints involving spatial
derivatives, or, roughly speaking, neighbouring points. So if evolution takes place
pointwise, it still involves a degree of spatial coordination between neighbouring
points, even though the neighbouring point might not “yet exist” relative to a different
here-now until it lies in the past.



.....

A key result then is that no unique choice for these world lines needs to be made in
the standard GR situation with simple equations of state; the ADM theory says we
locally get same result for the evolving spacetime, whatever world lines are chosen.
You can choose any time lines you like to show how things will have evolved at
different places (that is, on different observer’s world lines) at different times (that is,
at various proper times along those world lines). But this view has no foundationally
preferred status: you could have chosen different world lines, corresponding to
different shift vectors, and a different relation between times on the world lines,
corresponding to different choices of the laps function; the resulting four dimensional
spacetime is the same. In any specific situation, some of those descriptions will be
more natural and easier to use and understand than others; but this is just a
convenience, and any other surfaces and world lines could have been chosen.

.....

5.5 Issues of Ontology
The hidden issue underlying all this discussion is the question of the ontological
nature of spacetime: does spacetime indeed exist as a real physical entity, or is it just
a convenient way of describing relationships between physical objects, which in the
end are all that really exist at a fundamental level? Is it absolute or relational? Could
it after all be an emergent property of interacting fields and forces (Laughlin 2005), or
from deeper quantum or pre-quantum structure (Ashtekar 2005: Chapters 11-17)?

.....
For the record, my vote is for "just a convenient way of describing relationships", "relational"

[Confused]

My favorite parts:

Sheesh, 3! you read the entire thing so quickly. Wow. You are a quick reader. It looks like scientists are miles ahead in the analysis of Free Will, then what we think themselves to be. The secret of time has to be cracked for that. That is why I am trying to unravel most scientific arguments behind it here in this thread. I have to admit, I have to completely read the PDF file I linked.

Once I have read that, may be I can discuss more directly with you.

[3DMonkey]

My favorite parts:

Sheesh, 3! you read the entire thing so quickly. Wow. You are a quick reader. It looks like scientists are miles ahead in the analysis of Free Will, then what we think themselves to be. The secret of time has to be cracked for that. That is why I am trying to unravel most scientific arguments behind it here in this thread. I have to admit, I have to completely read the PDF file I linked.

Once I have read that, may be I can discuss more directly with you.

I just provided you the highlights!

I enjoy reading stuff like that. I typically don't read so fast, but it is different with this kind of thing.

I found it very entertaining to see the archetypal mind come out from under the writing itself. We so love dichotomy, we human beings.

[Confused]

I enjoy reading stuff like that.

I think you might like this as well, 3. In the end, the person asks whether mathematics is an element of reality or reality itself. A very deep question. Time could very well be a component of the constructed equation of 'Reality' as we 'know' it.

[3DMonkey]

Well, the previous paper touched on how even the theoretical ability to know all data for a given scenario isn't possible at the quantum level. So, I assume, math couldn't be reality in that sense.

[Confused]

Yup, that is the discussion. Is it a variable in the equation of reality?

[3DMonkey]

Time? It is one of the most difficult factors to fathom. (thus the thread)

I don't know. Here is something I don't like in relation to that paper: the it is a "given" that the past in unchangeable and the future is simply the laid out series of 'nows'. I think they would get better results if they simply too the past and the future as both completely unknown. I don't think it is possible to proof that the past hasn't changed or that it ever was. It's easy to see the future this way, but, IMO, they disservice themselves by not looking at the past in the same way

[Confused]

I don't know. Here is something I don't like in relation to that paper: the it is a "given" that the past in unchangeable and the future is simply the laid out series of 'nows'.

This paper discusses the same (I think) through the lens of the Terminator movie series --
CHANGING THE FUTURE: FATE AND THE TERMINATOR

[Meerie]

Ahh'll be baaackk
LOL
Edit: I wonder if Arnie sometimes wishes he could turn back time (to get back to the topic of the thread) - and not father a son with the maid?

[Confused]

Ahh'll be baaackk
LOL
Edit: I wonder if Arnie sometimes wishes he could turn back time (to get back to the topic of the thread) - and not father a son with the maid?

In light of your interest in the astrological sciences, do you think Time of the future is predestined to a very large extent, Meerie? Can we connect Astrology with predestination?

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In the end, this is what the mystery of time may come down to. To start and end at the same place! However, I will continue my search, for the search helps me wear the mask of unknowing.

[Confused]

I do not know about the mystery of TIME

[Confused]

Another very interesting paper on nature of Time and Free will
Is the Universe deterministic?

[Meerie]

There are astrologers who indeed make predictions. I do not do it, but I see certain tendencies when looking at a chart, and the transiting planets. There are always many possibilities and in the end it is up to each and every one to decide if he will act on them or not. Maybe 3D has been dwelling more on predictive astrology?

In light of your interest in the astrological sciences, do you think Time of the future is predestined to a very large extent, Meerie? Can we connect Astrology with predestination?

[3DMonkey]

There are astrologers who indeed make predictions. I do not do it, but I see certain tendencies when looking at a chart, and the transiting planets. There are always many possibilities and in the end it is up to each and every one to decide if he will act on them or not. Maybe 3D has been dwelling more on predictive astrology?

In light of your interest in the astrological sciences, do you think Time of the future is predestined to a very large extent, Meerie? Can we connect Astrology with predestination?

NO.

I was just pondering that we have microscopes to view things smaller than our perspective. Astrology is kind of like a macro-scope to help us view things larger than our perspective.