12-04-2012, 11:51 PM
I'll probably take a day or two to reply more in depth to this (the topic of the thread, the black mass itself) and let some of the initial waves settle. Clearly there are a lot of difficulties for many in facing potential shadow selves.
I am still greatly surprised and smiling widely that there are so many that see what I mean. If you are asked to serve as a minister (in a manner of speaking) in a sermon not of your own orientation or religion, would your “god” be offended?
Mine would not be and would consider that I tried to help someone serve their god to be a good thing.
There is rarely (but not never), anything wrong with helping people serve whatever gods they choose to serve. Or helping them not serve if they do not wish to serve.
I thank all participants for a thus far productive dialogue on the nature of the "old guy downstairs" and its distortions. Thank you all
. A difficult topic indeed, one might even say, a complex topic, perhaps, by studying such complex, thought evoking topics, we indeed, become complex creatures, to become something more difficult and complex than we have been before. Where not many an occultists sticks in mudd about humor and dark topics, I'd crack a joke here, but I feel such jokes breeze past confused me! 
I will respond to this due to the seeming urgency for various feathers ruffled:
Monica, no harm is meant anymore in my statement than was meant in yours, I see no harm in either, and see no line I have crossed. If such a line exists would you be so kind as to point it out to me so I can kindly point out where your footprints are all over it. Much
to you my 
friend.
To refresh what I am referring to:
“You apparently have me confused with someone who reacts to insinuations of confusion politely.”
Now, I will attempt to make my same point about lines and their crossing, and dotting the I, in, by my calculation, fourth or the fifth time in a row, I am hoping a carefully worded calm explanation of why, because I chose to not be offended by you crossing the line first, you should, in fairness and honesty, either be offended at yourself for crossing the line first, or, preferably, put your hands up in the air like you just don’t care and laugh about it all. Here goes:
Perhaps, I have confused you with someone who accepts others using same offensive insinuations to you that you label on others so glibly. If I am wrong, then I apologize and agree to not use the same level of insinuated incompetence at you that you wish to level against me based on anger. Or perhaps there is no anger in your message, and I do not know what you feel without asking, just as, perhaps there was no confusion, and you do not know what I was feeling without asking, such conundrums these emotions.
If I am however right and the case here is one of ruffled feathers and dinged halos. Cooler heads will prevail in a few days and we’ll all be able to read well formulated calm and useful discussions on these topics in the same extremely high quality I have come to expect and love in the B4 community. I retort to you extra snippily in comparison to others “south park mmkaaaay” comes to mind, because you have taken a great deal of time and effort to write well articulated posts on many occasions and, I believe here the word is appropriate, “hate” to see such a beautifully worded defense of your opinion broken down by such a pointless Ad-Hominem. You are so much better than that Monica! I believe in you Girl!
I hope my expression of love is not taken for arrogance, I have such trouble tuning my communication to the accepted level in such a large community and a delicate topic, without causing distortions that I find unacceptable, so I rarely express opinions of this complexity and level of clarity, so it may seem arrogant and to a point, out of context, but I prefer to articulately clearly and in a calm manner why I believe, that if anger here is truly the emotion felt, that some line has been crossed, then such a line, I hope and believe, will upon closer inspection be found to be little more than a wrinkle in the landscape of our common heart, and I hope that such wrinkles do not cause a frown on anyone’s face.
But, it is my hope and version of reality that if you reserve the right to insinuate on the wrongness and rightness of someone else’s opinion based on what you believe they are feeling when talking with you, in this case the emotional state of “confusion” then, you open yourself up to others interpreting what you are feeling when you are talking with them, in my remark which is constructed solely around your gender and in no way around what you wrote “menstrual pains”.
The reason I chose such, instead of attributes more personal such as accents, manners or personal points, is that anyone who knows and has read my posts and studied my style of habitation in being here, should understand by now that sexism would most likely be quite a long distance away from what I consider to be a smart move, in almost any reality. Therefore my retort should be understood in the clearest of terms to be an example of, and an indication of, that I do not consider it appropriate or in general accept insinuations of the validity of my mental state, or the lucidity of my verbal acumen to the argument at hand, unless sufficient evidence is provided to back up such claims of confusion. Simply disagreeing with me, is, in my view, not sufficient cause insinuate that I am “confused” anymore than me disagreeing with you is cause to insinuate that it because of your “gender” (such as it is, I do not believe it to exists, but that is a different topic, in short, I do not believe there to be a meaningful separation of genders anymore for any human alive at this moment in other than, perhaps, the metaphysical realm).
Still with me? Sure hope so.
If you wish to exchange barbs more on the topic of lines and I’s, I recommend one of these:
I know I’ll install one on my ship if I ever get it built, you may loan it (the anger dome I mean), if you ever need it, friend. =)
There, if I calculated this right, and I’m not sure I did, this being the density of not knowing and what not, there should be an equal amount of, in terms of communicated energy, of barbs and extensions of friendship in my message, back and over again that imaginary line that separates imagined friends from real friends, friends by association and friends regardless of association.
I may be wrong but that should be an a 3 light blue loop with interspaced red lines into which sideways is written “discernment + all is well” but looking like a beam of light if looked at directly which usually irritates the eyes slightly, but unfortunately, it is the mildest version I can do while still maintaining my integrity in this situation and not compromise my internal consistency to serve a exterior actor which chooses to take offence at the echo. Because, why are you here being offended, when you could be out playing in the sunshine and/or snow? That, I believe, is always an appropriate question to ask in a moment when lines seem to dominate, round is called for.
*looks around*
Yeah, I think that was it about this topic of offence and taking offence. Do as thou wilt, I have expressed myself to the best of my ability for the, it is all I can really ask for.
That’s my take on this thread and also, I like to whistle too. : ) (this is also for those who say less weed)
I hope I have given you enough ointment on ruffled feathers my little angel friend Monica Much for it!
I am still greatly surprised and smiling widely that there are so many that see what I mean. If you are asked to serve as a minister (in a manner of speaking) in a sermon not of your own orientation or religion, would your “god” be offended?
Mine would not be and would consider that I tried to help someone serve their god to be a good thing.
There is rarely (but not never), anything wrong with helping people serve whatever gods they choose to serve. Or helping them not serve if they do not wish to serve.
I thank all participants for a thus far productive dialogue on the nature of the "old guy downstairs" and its distortions. Thank you all
. A difficult topic indeed, one might even say, a complex topic, perhaps, by studying such complex, thought evoking topics, we indeed, become complex creatures, to become something more difficult and complex than we have been before. Where not many an occultists sticks in mudd about humor and dark topics, I'd crack a joke here, but I feel such jokes breeze past confused me! I will respond to this due to the seeming urgency for various feathers ruffled:
Monica, no harm is meant anymore in my statement than was meant in yours, I see no harm in either, and see no line I have crossed. If such a line exists would you be so kind as to point it out to me so I can kindly point out where your footprints are all over it. Much
to you my friend. To refresh what I am referring to:
Quote:You apparently have me confused with someone else. I offered my opinion in response to your request, so I'm going to exit this discussion now. Best wishes on whatever you decide!To which I responded:
Quote: In what part of my discussion with you did I indicate I was confused and not talking with you about this? And at what part did you assume its a good idea to use Ad hominem on someone you've talked with before.Let me clarify what I mean in the simplest language I can in the most straight forward way that I can. So, please, bear with me as this may sound hollywoodesque, but, you may blame a sometimes unhealthy interest in the American conversational style, especially that of the classy stranger.
“You apparently have me confused with someone who reacts to insinuations of confusion politely.”
Now, I will attempt to make my same point about lines and their crossing, and dotting the I, in, by my calculation, fourth or the fifth time in a row, I am hoping a carefully worded calm explanation of why, because I chose to not be offended by you crossing the line first, you should, in fairness and honesty, either be offended at yourself for crossing the line first, or, preferably, put your hands up in the air like you just don’t care and laugh about it all. Here goes:
Perhaps, I have confused you with someone who accepts others using same offensive insinuations to you that you label on others so glibly. If I am wrong, then I apologize and agree to not use the same level of insinuated incompetence at you that you wish to level against me based on anger. Or perhaps there is no anger in your message, and I do not know what you feel without asking, just as, perhaps there was no confusion, and you do not know what I was feeling without asking, such conundrums these emotions.
If I am however right and the case here is one of ruffled feathers and dinged halos. Cooler heads will prevail in a few days and we’ll all be able to read well formulated calm and useful discussions on these topics in the same extremely high quality I have come to expect and love in the B4 community. I retort to you extra snippily in comparison to others “south park mmkaaaay” comes to mind, because you have taken a great deal of time and effort to write well articulated posts on many occasions and, I believe here the word is appropriate, “hate” to see such a beautifully worded defense of your opinion broken down by such a pointless Ad-Hominem. You are so much better than that Monica! I believe in you Girl!
I hope my expression of love is not taken for arrogance, I have such trouble tuning my communication to the accepted level in such a large community and a delicate topic, without causing distortions that I find unacceptable, so I rarely express opinions of this complexity and level of clarity, so it may seem arrogant and to a point, out of context, but I prefer to articulately clearly and in a calm manner why I believe, that if anger here is truly the emotion felt, that some line has been crossed, then such a line, I hope and believe, will upon closer inspection be found to be little more than a wrinkle in the landscape of our common heart, and I hope that such wrinkles do not cause a frown on anyone’s face.
But, it is my hope and version of reality that if you reserve the right to insinuate on the wrongness and rightness of someone else’s opinion based on what you believe they are feeling when talking with you, in this case the emotional state of “confusion” then, you open yourself up to others interpreting what you are feeling when you are talking with them, in my remark which is constructed solely around your gender and in no way around what you wrote “menstrual pains”.
The reason I chose such, instead of attributes more personal such as accents, manners or personal points, is that anyone who knows and has read my posts and studied my style of habitation in being here, should understand by now that sexism would most likely be quite a long distance away from what I consider to be a smart move, in almost any reality. Therefore my retort should be understood in the clearest of terms to be an example of, and an indication of, that I do not consider it appropriate or in general accept insinuations of the validity of my mental state, or the lucidity of my verbal acumen to the argument at hand, unless sufficient evidence is provided to back up such claims of confusion. Simply disagreeing with me, is, in my view, not sufficient cause insinuate that I am “confused” anymore than me disagreeing with you is cause to insinuate that it because of your “gender” (such as it is, I do not believe it to exists, but that is a different topic, in short, I do not believe there to be a meaningful separation of genders anymore for any human alive at this moment in other than, perhaps, the metaphysical realm).
Still with me? Sure hope so.
If you wish to exchange barbs more on the topic of lines and I’s, I recommend one of these:
I know I’ll install one on my ship if I ever get it built, you may loan it (the anger dome I mean), if you ever need it, friend. =)
There, if I calculated this right, and I’m not sure I did, this being the density of not knowing and what not, there should be an equal amount of, in terms of communicated energy, of barbs and extensions of friendship in my message, back and over again that imaginary line that separates imagined friends from real friends, friends by association and friends regardless of association.
I may be wrong but that should be an a 3 light blue loop with interspaced red lines into which sideways is written “discernment + all is well” but looking like a beam of light if looked at directly which usually irritates the eyes slightly, but unfortunately, it is the mildest version I can do while still maintaining my integrity in this situation and not compromise my internal consistency to serve a exterior actor which chooses to take offence at the echo. Because, why are you here being offended, when you could be out playing in the sunshine and/or snow? That, I believe, is always an appropriate question to ask in a moment when lines seem to dominate, round is called for.
*looks around*
Yeah, I think that was it about this topic of offence and taking offence. Do as thou wilt, I have expressed myself to the best of my ability for the, it is all I can really ask for.
That’s my take on this thread and also, I like to whistle too. : ) (this is also for those who say less weed)
I hope I have given you enough ointment on ruffled feathers my little angel friend Monica Much
for it!