What is everyone's gut feeling on 2012?

[Quantum]

Now I for one disagree with one of your statements Quantum. "Nor would he wish for that someone to give up their life for any reason (including getting to heaven or 4D), as "Heaven Can Wait" (as much as can 4D)."....

(continuing, you say...)...physical death seems very trivial in the light of all of that..... Maybe just maybe the sacrifice of the self could itself be a catalyst to learn from in hindsight though.
Love and Peace

Thank you airwaves for participating. Re-reading my quote in the context meant, "Nor would he wish", is explicitly stating that it is not for me nor for anyone to wish death for anyone, much less the entire planet, whether I think it is for their greater good or not. If death by choice for a greater good, or even a lessor good, is wished for oneself, that is another matter, but not one for me or anyone to wish for another or for all. You are however more than correct when stating "maybe just maybe the sacrifice of the self could itself be a catalyst". Ra in fact speaks very specifically and profoundly to this very point in the case of war as being one of the greatest catalysts offered mankind in terms of giving one's life for another. However, in this discussion/case no one is asked to give up one's life for another in the addressing of theory. These are thought exercises only. As such, we are speaking to a belief structure of the total annihilation to the physical vehicle as death, verses the gradual evolution of the soul, and the preservation of life in the process, and as theory no less, this as regards the 'Spontaneous Event' camp verses the "Gradualist" camp. My point remains in the abstract: given we don't know, and that there is strong evidence (in theory) to support either camp, what does supporting one position verses the other state about the deeper inner psychology of an individual holding strongly to one position verses the other. Surely it says something very profoundly? I would humbly offer, as an exercise only (if not a deeper understanding of ourselves) that either individually, or as a group, that we not obscure or duck this question. I believe if we have the courage, it silently screams for an answer.

I really enjoyed those last few posts, Quantum. I think you raise excellent points and are well worth thinking more about....
For myself, the instant shift idea never resonated well....Carla and Q'uo have been channeling for decades now. I would expect that if it were not gradual, it would have come through. .. They (Quo) have an extreme polarization towards service towards others. If they let their message get so screwed up they would lose polarity quite quickly, and I suspect they wouldn't have allowed the communications to continue for very long at all.

Thank you Lavazza. Well said I believe, and good points made.

I have until I began reading bring 4th thought that the earth changes model was a rule not an option, especially given the indications about a polar shift, ice melting, and climate change. With sadness I considered that our time and potential for learning as a race was going to be much curtailed. With the confirmatory info that I missed from Quo, and the time line, potential reality issues, it appears that change will be gradual. This will in my opinion be much more likely if we as earths children work forthrightly on climate change initiatives. Being brought together over this problem will yield great spiritual reward I think

Again, in my humble opinion, well said Freemason. I wonder if my invitation to look within ourselves might be a point worthy of discussion as a group (?) as regards these differing camps, and what in fact this says about our self/ourselves, in as much as a position calls to be taken, less one wishes to assume a Spock-ian / Buddhist approach of not assuming either. Were this a position or stance, then participation means little, as much as would exploring or discussing same. Dispensing with the virtues of a Spock-ian/Buddhist "it is better/wiser to assume no position" position, and not withstanding this position, it may matter very much, in as much as it may reveal much about oneself.

Curious.......

Q