Confused, I really liked these ideas that you are talking about, because the spiritual seekers' world generally ignores them. That is why I was late in taking interest in spiritual seeking, because it just did not seem right that all the spiritual messages would talk about was idealistic love, yet there was so much pain down here on the ground. it was only Ra material that finally prvided me a more practical basis to understand whats going on.
I remember reading about torture when I was really young, and it just seemed unbeleivable to me that ONE unity would let some of that dark stuff happen to anyone it truly loved. I kow lots of spiritual people would say that perhaps that torture was karma, part of the victims' paticular spiritual paths, but I would disagree. On researching a couple of insurgencies, where I had a better cultural perspective to understand the victims, I found out that quite often, when governments/militants torture they end up targeting perfectly innocent, loving people. I have seen videos and testimonies of victims, where every ounce of my understanding told me that some totally innocent, loving people have undergone darkness beyond what most of us can imagine. No way some of those amazingly loving people programmed that hell for themselves. Ra itself says that due to heavy veil, lots of unexpected things have happened. Pre-planned spiritual paths have been deviated. Accidents have happened. There may not be any accidents from the highest perspective (mid sixth density and above), but for sure there are missteps and accidents in the third density, where loving people have been caught in the whirlwind of torture and humiliation.
So, I was initially apprehensive about all the lovey-dovey spiritual messages, when they rarely talked about the practical causes and implications of degrading poverty, pain, torture etc. Now that I have a better understanding, I still beleive that from a practical perspective, spiritual messages do not really address the world of pain and unfairness. So, I appreciate your kind of honest thinking (Unity100 used to address these topics excellently in the past).
I do have lots of hope and spiritual udnerstanding now, and I agree that not only it is our duty to give accurate data from here in thrid density, but at the highest levels (ONE), they are counting on our experience to figure out at what point darkness has taken over free will so comrehensively that there is no point to life. It is imperative of us commoners, especially those, who are of higher vibration to relate the experience back to creation, back to our higher selves as honestly as possible. It is imperative for us to ask questions. Free will is supposed to be amongst the highest of high principles of this creation. So, if we do not ask questions, how are we going to let the free will bloom in full health. Love is important, but so is free will. if it was all just about love, there was no need of veils. there was plenty of lvoe to go around before that. Infact, it was only love. No substantial darkness. ONE wanted more, and the creation responded with veils, wars, torture, destruction of whole planets. So, now creation has to give its honest feedback. That is why experience is so important. If honest, lovign souls are jaded so be it. if honest, lovign souls see no purpose to life, so be it. If free, loving souls see no worth, no respect in life, so be it.
One is life. Life is One. Without One, there is no life. One creates life, gives it meaning, gives it creation to experience. Now, if we as infinite creators start seeing that life has no meaning, and it is simply not worth it, then One, who is life itself, will understand our situtation and guide this infinite cycle appropriately. (Btw, I do not focus much on synchronicites, but I have this Byron Metcalf - Earth Om song that just started playing. Everytime I hear it, I get this idea that infinite creator loves questions, loves challenges.)
Now, creation has to respond to our experiences. That is what freedom and love are all about. It has done it before in infinite cycles, and it will do it again.
I understand others' desire to focus only on love, which is very important in its own right, but relaying back the ground reality is also very important to the hgihest levels. They have created a system, which we call creation, and without honest feedback, the system will not be able to understand how far is far enough. I am sure that higher densities have sent some volunteers to simply be, just to experience. To experience how darkness affects life in thid heavily veilved thrid density. Keep in mind that Ra very clearly said that many consequences of heavy veil had not even been imagined before. So, something that was not even imagined before, will not be proeprly understood without brutally honest experiences. Maybe that is what a few of the volunteers came here for.
ps: I will add some mythical tales, if someone is interested. In one tale - In distant past, heavens had figured out perfect love and enjoyment, and spent their time in bliss. They were strong against darkness, and had nothing to worry about, other than enjoy their experiences and love. Darkness kept its world secret, and kept on building its methods patiently. Then, at one sudden, grand moment, it sprung upon the heavens, using its mind, its intelligence, and its deep ruthlessness to take over the bliss.
There were wails and cries in the heavens, but it was too late. At that moment, the Gods of heavens pleaded to the ONE asking why had they been taken over by darkness, inspite of their intense love. ONE responded that if you truly loved this creation, you would have understood it too. You would have understood the darkness, instead of ignoring it. True love needs understanding.
By providing honest feedbalc from the ground here in this heavily veiled third density, we are providing understanding to the whole of creation.
It may all be an illusion here, but creation takes it very seriously. It may be an illusion, but it is the reality of life. One if life. The creator of life, experiencer of life, maintainer of life. Confused, I just wanted to appreciate your viewpoint, which to me is refreshing, but I have ended up ranting, because of morning burst of enthusiasm.
Confused, some loving people may find this paragraph harsh, but I find it very realistic, very honest. Those, who are true victims of abuse that has happened on Earth are the only true representatives of their experience. No spiritual principle, no spiritual teaching can wash away their experience. True spirituality will accept their experience, understand it and answer for it.
Though, from a practical perspective, love does help. Love does provide hope, but at its highest levels, love and spirituality have to provide answers and understanding of some of this truly horrific abuse too. And solutions. Obviously, creation wants to exist, and for that it has to keep darkness in limits. Give free will to darkness, but also protect the free will of its victims. No point to life without freedom. Even unconditional love needs freedom to experience, freedom to exist.
I remember reading about torture when I was really young, and it just seemed unbeleivable to me that ONE unity would let some of that dark stuff happen to anyone it truly loved. I kow lots of spiritual people would say that perhaps that torture was karma, part of the victims' paticular spiritual paths, but I would disagree. On researching a couple of insurgencies, where I had a better cultural perspective to understand the victims, I found out that quite often, when governments/militants torture they end up targeting perfectly innocent, loving people. I have seen videos and testimonies of victims, where every ounce of my understanding told me that some totally innocent, loving people have undergone darkness beyond what most of us can imagine. No way some of those amazingly loving people programmed that hell for themselves. Ra itself says that due to heavy veil, lots of unexpected things have happened. Pre-planned spiritual paths have been deviated. Accidents have happened. There may not be any accidents from the highest perspective (mid sixth density and above), but for sure there are missteps and accidents in the third density, where loving people have been caught in the whirlwind of torture and humiliation.
So, I was initially apprehensive about all the lovey-dovey spiritual messages, when they rarely talked about the practical causes and implications of degrading poverty, pain, torture etc. Now that I have a better understanding, I still beleive that from a practical perspective, spiritual messages do not really address the world of pain and unfairness. So, I appreciate your kind of honest thinking (Unity100 used to address these topics excellently in the past).
I do have lots of hope and spiritual udnerstanding now, and I agree that not only it is our duty to give accurate data from here in thrid density, but at the highest levels (ONE), they are counting on our experience to figure out at what point darkness has taken over free will so comrehensively that there is no point to life. It is imperative of us commoners, especially those, who are of higher vibration to relate the experience back to creation, back to our higher selves as honestly as possible. It is imperative for us to ask questions. Free will is supposed to be amongst the highest of high principles of this creation. So, if we do not ask questions, how are we going to let the free will bloom in full health. Love is important, but so is free will. if it was all just about love, there was no need of veils. there was plenty of lvoe to go around before that. Infact, it was only love. No substantial darkness. ONE wanted more, and the creation responded with veils, wars, torture, destruction of whole planets. So, now creation has to give its honest feedback. That is why experience is so important. If honest, lovign souls are jaded so be it. if honest, lovign souls see no purpose to life, so be it. If free, loving souls see no worth, no respect in life, so be it.
One is life. Life is One. Without One, there is no life. One creates life, gives it meaning, gives it creation to experience. Now, if we as infinite creators start seeing that life has no meaning, and it is simply not worth it, then One, who is life itself, will understand our situtation and guide this infinite cycle appropriately. (Btw, I do not focus much on synchronicites, but I have this Byron Metcalf - Earth Om song that just started playing. Everytime I hear it, I get this idea that infinite creator loves questions, loves challenges.)
Now, creation has to respond to our experiences. That is what freedom and love are all about. It has done it before in infinite cycles, and it will do it again.
I understand others' desire to focus only on love, which is very important in its own right, but relaying back the ground reality is also very important to the hgihest levels. They have created a system, which we call creation, and without honest feedback, the system will not be able to understand how far is far enough. I am sure that higher densities have sent some volunteers to simply be, just to experience. To experience how darkness affects life in thid heavily veilved thrid density. Keep in mind that Ra very clearly said that many consequences of heavy veil had not even been imagined before. So, something that was not even imagined before, will not be proeprly understood without brutally honest experiences. Maybe that is what a few of the volunteers came here for.
ps: I will add some mythical tales, if someone is interested. In one tale - In distant past, heavens had figured out perfect love and enjoyment, and spent their time in bliss. They were strong against darkness, and had nothing to worry about, other than enjoy their experiences and love. Darkness kept its world secret, and kept on building its methods patiently. Then, at one sudden, grand moment, it sprung upon the heavens, using its mind, its intelligence, and its deep ruthlessness to take over the bliss.
There were wails and cries in the heavens, but it was too late. At that moment, the Gods of heavens pleaded to the ONE asking why had they been taken over by darkness, inspite of their intense love. ONE responded that if you truly loved this creation, you would have understood it too. You would have understood the darkness, instead of ignoring it. True love needs understanding.
By providing honest feedbalc from the ground here in this heavily veiled third density, we are providing understanding to the whole of creation.
It may all be an illusion here, but creation takes it very seriously. It may be an illusion, but it is the reality of life. One if life. The creator of life, experiencer of life, maintainer of life. Confused, I just wanted to appreciate your viewpoint, which to me is refreshing, but I have ended up ranting, because of morning burst of enthusiasm.
(08-24-2014, 11:18 AM)Confused Wrote: In my personal dictionary, there is a word for making someone else suffer, unwittingly, for your profit or pleasure, and that Stranger, is the simple word called 'abuse'. I know it is a very tall allegation, and may be preposterous. However, that is my most honest feedback to the ONE, in terms of the landscape of creation as laid out by the LOO. My feedback to the ONE is to stop a system of abuse for the generation of experiences for the ONE to digest and learn from. If it is not possible to do so with the current set of infinite creations, at least, please, O ONE, profit from the lessons gained from this set in terms of not spawning a system that develops a systematically codified structure of abuse.
Confused, some loving people may find this paragraph harsh, but I find it very realistic, very honest. Those, who are true victims of abuse that has happened on Earth are the only true representatives of their experience. No spiritual principle, no spiritual teaching can wash away their experience. True spirituality will accept their experience, understand it and answer for it.
Though, from a practical perspective, love does help. Love does provide hope, but at its highest levels, love and spirituality have to provide answers and understanding of some of this truly horrific abuse too. And solutions. Obviously, creation wants to exist, and for that it has to keep darkness in limits. Give free will to darkness, but also protect the free will of its victims. No point to life without freedom. Even unconditional love needs freedom to experience, freedom to exist.
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