Why I am not a vegan

[Monica]

Um, no, I said it doesn't even feel natural to pick plant leaves, nor does killing any creature.

I got that. I didn't disagree. Did you miss what I said about carnivorous animals having instincts to kill but we don't?

Therefore, there is simply no reason to kill animals whom we know feel pain, which by the way also causes more death to plants, who might feel pain. It's completely illogical to justify the killing of animals based on the idea that plants might feel pain too. And you admitted that they aren't the same.

Given that they're not the same, and given that animals eat plants so killing animals kills even more plants than eating just plants, and given that one could thrive on only fruit, nuts and seeds (though they'd be healthier if they also included veggies), the end result is: Why do it? Why kill the animals at all?

Also, why do you assume I have not ever considered those conditions or put myself in their state?

I didn't assume. I concluded, based on your choice of words. I can go by only what you say. Your words repeatedly were from your own perspective, whereas vegans tend to see the situation from the animals' perspective.

It is because I have that I make the approach that I do, it is because I know the pain that I attempt to heal whatever I eat, plant or animal.

Are you 'healing' the meat, so that it's less harmful for you?

Or, are you attempting to 'heal' the animal?

That animal's soul is long gone. S/he was killed days, weeks, or maybe even months ago, in a state of terror and pain. It's too late. The damage is done. Even if you remove the concept of linear time, it's not effective to knowingly cause suffering to an entity, then saying "oops, sorry, I hope you heal" then keep doing it. That makes no sense. That's not remorse, it's not amends. It's self-serving.

You aren't even talking to me, you're having an imaginary conversation with some person in your mind whom you have demonized.

I haven't demonized anyone. I do label the eating of meat as an STS act, yes I do.

I intentionally don't address your own personal choices, in an attempt to avoid judging you as a person. I intentionally speak about concepts, rather than individuals. I have zero interest in what you choose. My interest is in intellectual discourse about a very important topic...one that affects the whole planet.

I consider it very hurtful that you do not care about the state of the energy of the animal after it has died.

You misunderstood. I do indeed care about the energy of the animal. That is what drives me to help awaken people about the cycle of violence they are perpetuating with their dietary 'choices.' I have even speculated that those animal souls are more likely to polarize STS because of their traumatic experiences.

I don't care about the physical substance of your hamburger. I do care about the soul of the cow whose body is being eaten.

I consider it bizarre that you would rather just have that life thrown to maggots rather than transmuted in to higher energy states and repairing of the dissonance still locked in the flesh.

Again, you continue to focus only on the body after death. I ask you again to shift your focus to the life of the cow before death...when she was being tortured...and the HOW of her death...that she was brutally killed.

Cattle, chickens, turkeys and pigs are artificially bred, for the purpose of satisfying human desire for their meat. The farm animal population is many orders of magnitude greater than it would be in the wild. Were it not for the meat industry, we wouldn't have billions of farm animals. Their population in the wild would be much smaller, they would live a natural life, and their bodies returned to the Earth.

I am incredulous that you seem to be saying a cow living a life of torture, killed after an abnormally short lifespan, all to satisfy the human taste for meat, is somehow more noble than returning to the Earth? How could that possibly 'repair the dissonance locked in the flesh' or 'transmute to higher energy states'?

I have never, at any point in this discussion, disagreed that the treatment of animals in many farming settings are heinous and atrocious.

Then I am confused. You have clearly been arguing in favor of supporting that heinous, atrocious practice.

Also, I hope you are indeed aware that your particular interpretation and understanding of STO/STS and the density of choice is not the only nor necessarily the "correct" one? (Not that I'm sure there is a correct one.)

Of course. That's why I was careful to say "my interpretation".

STS is about control. You're trying to save the animals, but attempting to control humans as you do so. Sounds kind of STS to me. (Yes, that is sarcastic. Figure I should specify since everyone seems to take that s*** seriously.)

Nope. Not trying to control anyone at all. Not my motivation. It may look the same to you, but it's not the same at all. My motivation is only to help the animals.

I couldn't control what others do anyway, even if I wanted to.

Unnecessary violence isn't really useful to either path.

I disagree. It's very useful to those on the STS path.